Mozza (2)

[Mozza]

Emergency! W is pissed.

1. She asked by email if we could swap her upcoming birthday week-end so that she doesn't have the kids and can go out. I made plans for that week-end back in September. I knew it was her birthday week-end but I didn't think she wouldn't want to have the kids. Now she says I should have told her when I made plans since it was an important week-end for her.

Reply idea: "I understand it's an important week-end for you. I made these plans back in September and didn't realize that I had to keep you informed for my week-end without the kids, nor that you wouldn't want to have them at that time. I didn't have them on my birth date, but I had them on my birthday week-end and made plans involving them."


2. She asked me for lunch today. I'm not available but mostly I'm not ready so I sent her a quick "I'm not available today" and she replied something along the lines: "I see you suggest no other date. This tells me that you don't want to have lunch and talk to me. Let me know if you dislike these lunches and I'll stop bothering you."

Reply idea: "I sent you a quick reply because I was on the go and knew I wasn't available today so I would free you up immediately for today. I'm willing to see you and talk to you. I'm available this week Wednesday or Friday."

Advice welcome!

[GoatGal]

Sounds as if she is baiting you.

Either way, you lose.

Don't let her push you into responding.

1. Can you swap dates without sacrificing something you really want to do?
If you can, then decide if YOU want to. Then simply tell her your decision.
You don't need to "explain" it. She made her choices, you are making yours.

You can be kind and say, "I'm sorry but I already made plans that I can't change."

It's not your problem that she doesn't want the burden of the kids on her birthday weekend so she can go out. There are these cool things that were invented many moons ago. They're called BABYSITTERS. Maybe she can call one. (But don't suggest it--that's rescuing her. Let her figure this out. Or not.)

2. Lunch: If it's not in your best interests to go because you have plans, don't feel like it, won't be able to keep up your PMA or look your best, you are right to decline. And you don't owe her an explanation either.

What she thinks or feels about your actions is HER problem, not yours.

You do not have to let her know whether you like or dislike the lunches... this is just her being pouty. She wants you to put yourself on the line and tell her you still like being around her. I wouldn't waste one minute reassuring her that that's the case.
You can show her with your ongoing actions that you care for her and enjoy being in her company. On YOUR TERMS. Not when she demands something from you.
Be nice. Be firm. Be honest. Put yourself first.
"Sorry, today just won't work for me." (No reason needed.)

If you want to, "Too short notice. Perhaps another time."

She might want to get the idea that she has to ask you ahead of time because you're not just sitting around waiting for her to call.

(You're not, right? )


Personally, I'd let her stew in her own juice for a while.
She wants what she wants when she wants it and why is it your job to make that happen for her?

Go GAL and have lunch elsewhere.
But always be NICE about it.


---(G)GGG

PS: Sorry I'm not up on your sitch 100%. I assume SHE is the one who wanted the separation? And do you know whether or not there is OM? Because in either of those cases, I wouldn't be bending over backwards to protect her from feeling like she might lose you if she continues her behavior.

[GoatGal]

Ok, mozza,

I see there is an OM (you might want to add that to your signature), and you keep feeling like you want to talk about your pain and get some clarity during a lunch...?

I would avoid that like the plague.

You are nowhere near being able to have that conversation yet and remain fully in control of your emotions. It's too fresh and since you used the words "my pain" it's clear that this would be a bad idea.

No R talks. Not for quite a while, OK?

So she has OM and you're worried about her being pissed that you don't jump when she wants to have lunch?

I don't think so....


---(G)GGG

[jim0987]

What GoatGal said....

I thought about it this way. How much am I respecting myself if I change my plans to accommodate my W sleeping with OM?

[Mozza]

Wow, I didn't see your advice coming!

1. Birthday week-end. I do have real plans and they work better without the kids so I'm not going to change them. I wanted to clarify to her that I did not make plans to spite her, mirroring when the same situation happened to me. It's too much?

If the kids have seen the OM four days and one morning during their week with her, it tells me she doesn't need me to babysit to sleep with him.

2. Lunch. There are a few things that I want to discuss with her, including better coordination around the kids, so I actually wanted this lunch too. Last lunch was 5 weeks ago. I have to admit that I don't feel ready today (that's why I declined) but my mood can swing dramatically every half-day so I think Wednesday or Friday could work.

I have my boundaries but I don't want my wife to think that I'm difficult when I'm really not trying to be. It's part of my 180 to be very kind to her, never to get upset or lend her intentions. I want her to see that I've changed, that I'm truly collaborative and kind. That's why I explain a bit why I said things that might upset her. Too much?

[jim0987]

My guess is She's going to think you're being difficult any time you don't give her 100% of what she wants and when you do your being difficult by being so cooperative.

[GoatGal]

Mozza,


What jim said above is probably true.

Write this down and repeat as needed:

HOW MY WIFE FEELS OR WHAT SHE THINKS ABOUT WHAT I DO IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

If you are acting in accordance with your values and ethics, if you are being courteous, but putting yourself first in light of her choices which devalue you as husband, you HAVE NOTHING TO EXPLAIN OR APOLOGIZE FOR.

You do what you know to be right. You say little about it either way. Let your actions speak for you.

How she feels about this is her problem. Let her feel what that feels like.
That's the first step for her starting to respect you and understand that the crows she released are coming home to roost.

She's not SUPPOSED to like it.


And if it's not imperative, I'd hold off on any big discussions about anything. It can easily devolve into a R discussion or with you losing your cool.
I'd hold off on lunches or anything else that keeps you in her orbit.

Be busy. Put her off until YOU are ready to meet her with your agenda, your validating skills ready to go, and your PMA and calm, collected demeanor firmly in place.

If you're going to go into the center ring with the untamed tigress, you'd better make sure you've got your whip, chair, and a well-fitting top hat!

And anytime you deal with W, even via text, "calm, cool, and confident" is what you need to project.

Always.

Make sense?

That said. Always be kind, courteous, and civil. But don't worry about her being "upset" that you're not doing what she wants.
Do you think she cares how upset you are right now?
Do you want her to think you believe it's ok that she's with OM?

The past is the past. You can't undo it now by being super nice.
Now is the time to stand firm and show her a man she can respect.
Later on you may have the opportunity to soften towards her and be more comforting. But not now while she's behaving this way. That's just rewarding bad behavior.

I'm not saying to be curt or cold, but yeah. She's not gonna like it when you don't give her what she wants.

Be prepared for her trying to use this against you.

"See? I knew you were not going to be supportive/you're being mean to me/ you don't care about me/you're using the kids against me...."

Accusations and blaming will be next on the agenda if what she's doing isn't working for her. So prepare yourself.

---(G)GGG

[Mozza]

Thank you guys! It's amazing to get such quick and detailed responses on this forum. It's tremendously helpful to help me think.

In the end, I said I couldn't change my plans for her birthday weekend and that it didn't cross my mind that she wouldn't want the kids. For lunch, I offered Wednesday and Friday. There are things I need to discuss with her regarding the kids because it isn't working. Face to face, I believe I have more chances to get what I want. I'll put my best PMA on.

I agree that I should stand my ground and not cross my boundaries to accommodate her. At the same time, I've read sandi2 or 25yearsmlc who say that we should keep the road to a reconciliation paved, so I want her to at least understand my good intentions. She seems to have a lot of anger towards me, probably the same feeling that lead to our breakup. She felt unworthy around me and we had lots of arguments in the weeks leading to the breakup. I'm trying to lower the temperature a little.

[GoatGal]

Mozza,

Sandi and 25years are vets with great advice that usurps my own. I would definitely listen to them and take their advice.

Every sitch is different and you know yourself and your W best.

The things I'm reacting to when I read your thread are red flags to me about you tolerating things you shouldn't because you're trying to make up for past bad behavior.

Like your W using your place for storage, having access to your flat, making unilateral decisions about the children without discussing it with you first.

Then blatantly having a R with this OM, which in itself is very disrespectful.

"Lowering the temperature" as you put it, is very appropriate.
Cooling down the anger on both sides is important.

You want to keep the "road to reconciliation paved" but that doesn't mean you need to lie down on it so she can run over you with a steamroller!


(I apologize if my humor doesn't come across well. You said English is not your native language, however your writing doesn't reflect this at all. Your English is perfect. Are you by any chance Italian? Because of "Mozza"? Just a guess.)

There is being nice and allowing her to take advantage and control your behavior, and then there is being assertive and maintaining your values and integrity while at the same time being respectful and kind to her.

She is going to be upset with you at some point when you do not do as she wishes.
That is her problem.

By the way, my H had a lot of anger towards me too, about things which had nothing to do with reality. It was just his way of justifying his actions. If he could find something to be angry with me about, it would help him feel better about leaving me.


Try and figure out if your W's previous complaints had merit or not. If they did, work on those things. If not, maybe work on them anyway, just in case.
For YOU.

[Mozza]

Her email about her birthday week-end also said: "Now what, do we need to organize December already so that you don't have unmovable plans? Do we need to plans weeks in advance now?" I know she will make me pay for this. It's very rare that I upset her since the separation, but I don't feel bad about this one.

I had replied "Yes, we can organize December if you want" and she responded with a plan. She's seeing family and friends abroad (plans predate separation), so she wants to have the kids more before she goes and immediately when she's back. I said it's fine with me (I'll have them 3 weeks in a row over the Holidays) but I'd like to take them out for dinner during the long period in December when they'll be with her.