Had a good conversation with H this afternoon. He is willing to negotiate the terms of the "settlement" offer he gave me and is considering disclosure. I think he has some money saved that he fears I will want part of but I am reasonable and I know he has not yet paid his income taxes and he will need about $50k for that, I won't ask for 1/2 of that, I know he will need it. He says his 1099's for 2014 will be about $300k but after his business expenses (he has subcontractors he has paid from it) it will be about $180k.
He is open to negotiation about length of spousal support and the other few things that concern me. He says he is reluctant to show me bank statements because he knows that some of what I see will hurt me (likely $ spent on OW and trips and such) but he also fears that I could use it against him in court to try to hurt him (or OW). I told him that I will not do that, from what I can tell his offer is very reasonable and just needs a few tweaks but that he will have to show me his bank statements if I request them through my attorney anyway so it's not going to hurt him any more to give them to me for review. He is considering all of that. Not sure what I'm going to do if he will not. I guess I'll have to weigh all that out.
All in all, I had a much better day and I am hopeful that we can work this financial stuff out without nastiness or excessive lawyer fees. I guess time will tell...
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Hi fth, Do yourself a favor and take what you can while he is feeling "generous". In many, many cases (including my own) the WAS is much more generous at the start of the process and as time goes on, becomes much less so and starts to feel "entitled" and that they owe you nothing since you are cause for all that is bad in their life. I've seen it happen to me and to many others here on the forum.
Don't worry about him seeing how he is sticking you with so much responsibility and work for the kids. It won't make one bit of difference to him at all. You need to understand that to him YOU are the "bad guy", the one who "messed up". He is just doing what he MUST do because of all the bad YOU have caused him in his life. He needs to blame you for his actions because if you aren't the reason, that only leaves him throwing away his family for a woman much younger than him and what does that make him? I have a feeling that he has been doing a lot of traveling with OW and spending of money on her and he wants to hide that, that is why he doesn't want you seeing "his" accounts (PA and CA are community property states and they are as much YOUR accounts as they are his and the business is as much yours as his. My W lost sight of this as well). There is no way he won't have to disclose the amount of funds in ALL the accounts as it's half yours until you say it's not and a judge signs off on that.
It is a very good offer but also keep in mind that he is an adulterer and you have been married 19 years. The courts in PA WILL take this into account. Not to mention the fact that if it goes to court the world will know that they (good Christians that they say they are) were committing a heinous sin against you and God...and MLCers HATE looking bad. Heck, he can't even face the family for a kids party when they don't even know about his young chickie yet!
As for the "talk" with the kids...my W STILL hasn't had an honest talk with our girls! She actually believed that they thought the reason she was sleeping on the couch was because I snored too loudly! Remember, their empathy chip isn't working at all and that includes the kids as well. My W went from being a stay at home mom for 15 years to not caring or denying that D hurts the kids. According to her D doesn't have any adverse effects on anyone as long as we both "act right" during and after. Never mind the pain she went through when her parents D's or every expert saying how bad it is...only OTHER peoples kids are hurt by D. In fact she actually thought (and may still) that they would be 'happy" that their mother will finally get what she wants and be "happy". In fact she said she will be a better mother because she will be so happy just because we are no longer M. MLCers don't think like normal people, remember don't believe anything they say and half of what you see!
It's good that you are doing this now and getting everything prepared. I will say that you definitely need a lawyer. Your H isn't going to stop until he gets what he thinks he wants so badly and he isn't going to allow himself to stop. This is why he doesn't want to see you or do things as a family..not because it hurts too much but because he doesn't want to allow himself to waver. My W did the same type of things...she got angry when we did things as a family and had fun. The only times we really fought when she was still at home after B-day was after we had done something really fun as a family and she had a good time. It scared her that she might start to think she didn't want a D and she had made up her mind. Hang in there fth and try to keep a cool head. Remember, the man your H was is no longer there. You aren't dealing with the old H and you need to keep this in mind at all times.
Do yourself a favor and take what you can while he is feeling "generous".
Seriously considering it. As I do more research in CA it is generous (with the exception of the length of spousal support which is negotiable)
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I have a feeling that he has been doing a lot of traveling with OW and spending of money on her and he wants to hide that, that is why he doesn't want you seeing "his" accounts (PA and CA are community property states and they are as much YOUR accounts as they are his and the business is as much yours as his. My W lost sight of this as well). There is no way he won't have to disclose the amount of funds in ALL the accounts as it's half yours until you say it's not and a judge signs off on that.
Yes, I think the same thing. There is likely a bunch of stuff that he did with her or spent on her that he does not want me to see. Frankly, it seems like that is water under the bridge, I can't get it back, right? I'm considering telling him to just give me statements with the balances for the last 2 years so that I don't have to see the transactions but I at least know how much money he has/had... H might go for that.
Originally Posted By: Matt165
MLCers don't think like normal people, remember don't believe anything they say and half of what you see!
Such a truth to remember...
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I will say that you definitely need a lawyer.
I have retained a lawyer in PA, trying to avoid the costs of retaining a CA one too...
Hope you are doing better Matt. I have a bunch of kid stuff to do tonight but I'll try to catch up on your thread later.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
fthnluv - Just FYI...my H has done the same, I'm sure, this past year. Spent a great deal of OUR money on OW and her kids. My attorney told me they can get hold of all the credit card statements that would show what he spent (and he charges just about EVERYTHING), and I would be entitled to half of all that - because it's 'our' money. I don't plan to go that far, but I think it can be done. Check it out...
Me 53, XH 57 M 20 (+1.5) years, no kids BD June '13 H moved out July '13 Confirmed long-suspected PA Feb '14 H filed for D Nov. '14 D March '15
Thanks Livenow. Very interesting. I would imagine he has been spending $ since before our separation on OW, the question becomes how much and how much would it cost me to go down that road with the lawyer and how would affect his offer on the table currently. I will have to weigh all that out with the rest of this so I can come to a decision.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Hi everyone! Sorry to be MIA, it was a long weekend.
I am still working on keeping my mind off H and the OW, it was particularly hard this weekend when my kids were with my in-laws and H and OW were on a trip nearby. Thankfully, that is now in the past and I have vowed not to look at that app where I found there travel plans in the future. Even though I did it innocently at the time, to see his flight status for the trip I did know about, the information only hurt me and my heart. I have also vowed not to look at OW's FB profile because it is possible I will see a new pic of them or that she has changed her status from "in a relationship" to "engaged". I have no idea if that's the case and I don't want to know until/if I have to.
Brought my Grandmother to stay with me for the next week or so and that has been a nice distraction. She is a smart, and funny, cookie!
At some point this week I need to sit down and run the actual numbers for his "offer" against what I think I could get, at a minimum, from my state. I guess I have been putting that off because I don't want to take any steps forward towards the D but I need to be prepared if/when he brings it up again too.
I have a meeting tonight but I'm going to try to come in and catch up on everyone's posts in the next day or 2. Hope you all have amazing things to report!
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Having a rough day today. Yesterday I felt a *little* at peace but today the sadness and thinking of H and how much I miss him and our old life together is back. Ugh. I just wish I could turn my old memories and plans for our future that may now never be off.
Going to see a Christian counselor for the first time this afternoon. I think I need that. I also need to talk to her about having S8 see a counselor, he is taking much too much of this on. The other night he told me "Mom, I love you and I'd give up my life if Dad would spend his with yours.", true story. I'm so sad he is hurting. I reassured him that this is not his to take on and that it he (and his siblings) did nothing to cause this but I know he's still wanting to fix it. He's a mini-fixer, just like his Mom apparently. Poor kid.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
Having a rough day today. Today is H's birthday and it feels so strange (bad) to not feel welcome to celebrate it with him. I had the kids send him handmade birthday cards this week, he hasn't acknowledged them. I think I'll let them call him to wish him a happy birthday tonight. They will likely get his voicemail but there's nothing I can do about that.
Went to church this morning and had a beautiful moment while singing a song that I love so, my S3 crawled into my arms and buried his sweet head into my neck and then my D5 scooted over to love on me too, I began to cry from the emotion of it all. Moments like that make me so grateful for what I have but also so sad for what H is missing.
Going to try to focus on me this week. Some days are so, so hard. I try to tell myself that I am still very early into this but I still feel like a failure when I wallow in the sadness of it all some days.
Me- 40 H- 41 S8, D5, S4 M 19 y T 23 Bomb drop 6/2013 H asked for/filed for D 9/2014 22 yo OW discovered 9/19/14 they're engaged and living together
My W's birthday was just last week. I know how you feel. I too have found myself tearing up in church often. It's a place I bare my soul to God and I don't try and hold back there. Just let it wash over you and try and let it go.
Hang in there fth, you are doing well for being so soon into the process. Keep doing for yourself and the kids. H probably won't acknowledge the cards, try to drop all expectations, all it leads to is disappointment. He just isn't able to think of you and his family in a normal way. If you do those type of things, do it because YOU want to and don't expect a response. If you do get one, be thankful but don't expect it to happen again. Hard to do I know but you will learn over time that it's the expectations that hurt us the most.
Do something for you this week. Something you may have wanted to do but never had the chance. It will help.
Fry - you are doing great. I am just a month behind and I tear up at church and school events. It is a bittersweet mix of gratitude, lova and grief. It's ok to feel it because that's how you get through it. This is not something to "get over" you must slog your way through it.
H's bday is next month. It's a big one and I am not sure how to handle it. The whole no expectations thing is hard to master. You are doing so well and just loving your kids and loving yourself is so important so you can carry on.
Thinking of you and sending prayers that today will be peaceful and strong for you.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
