Condonation, that's good to know for all the LBS out there. I talked to my friend who's an ATTY and he said he'd never heard of that being used as a defense to adultry (we're in Texas). He's done a couple Ds but not his specialty. His other comment was, how does she prove you did ML even if it came up.
I made mention of the "not having a condom" as much as a zinger to put an end to "the mood". Not sure how'd the wife would respond, but I find my give a damn is almost empty.
Me: 37, W: 36 S6, S3 M: 8 T:11 Discovered 1st A: 9/3/14 Began DB: 9/20/14 W "ended" 1st A repeatedly Discovered at least 3 more A's, filed 10/29/14
Blindsid...sorry for my delayed response, was busy most of the weekend
re: impact of the mediation discussion on my situation...I would say it helped b/c it brought to my W's attention what was at risk here. With that said, it was not a bluff. I was serious and still am. I have told my W that I want to work on my M, but do not want to stay in the M as we have it today. We both need to make serious changes.
re: your response to ML...clearly, that condom comment would set her off. That does not mean you should not say it but be prepared for the spew of hatred. You may go a little softer with a "given where our R is right now, I don't think that ML is a wise choice."
This weekend my W and I talked about everything. She still says that she is confused. She likes what she has seen from me but also says that she cannot deal with my controlling ways (which only come out when we get into discussions about her texting and all of the secrets). She did say that everything that I am saying is what she wants to here but (1) she is not sure this is the real me and (2) she is angry that it took her pushing for a D for me to want to treat her the way she wanted to be treated.
She also recognized that she deserves a lot of the blame for where we are b/c she NEVER told me how she felt. But, she also believes that she should not have to do that and that I should want to take her out more and make her feel appreciated and loved. I of course thought I was doing that. Frankly I was doing what she told me she wanted me to do. It turns out that she wanted more but I never knew.
So, not a positive nor negative discussion. There is some potential light at the end of the tunnel and frankly it is up to my W if she wants to work on the M. If she sees it as hopeless, I cannot change her mind. Right now, she seems to be leaning toward hopeless. She says she just does not have the energy to work on our M and that she had been doing that for years.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
It looks like you are making some progress -- that's great.
Allow me to point out a few things:
1. I think Starsky is really helpful. He's succeeded with a more confrontational approach. He is also being VERY gracious to help you with your more "standing" approach which will take much longer.
2. You still need to deal with your wife's denial of the affair. It's going to be hard to repair a marriage when she can't admit she had an affair or is willing to apologize. The fact is she KNOWS you know, but is wondering how much gas lighting you'll accept.
3. You are trying to "nice" her into the marriage. Keep in mind, this strategy may work in the short-run. (18 mos -3 yrs). I've seen several guys succeed with this, but in the end, it was hard to maintain the "Superman/Trained Seal" persona forever. We all slip back into our usual selves eventually. No one thinks they will, but they do. And do you really want to be married to someone who is living with a "what have you done for me lately" mentality? the balance of power will always be in her advantage.
4. The reason you are working furiously to GAL, etc. is to save your marriage. When it's saved, you'll likely drop some of that stuff.
5. The reason you are doing this is you are afraid of losing your wife/family. She knows this. All she had to so was have an affair and you become "superman" husband.
6. What is she afraid of losing? Up to know, nothing. She has 2 guys really into her. She gets to cake-eat and decide.
7. Talk to Starsky on how to toughen up your approach. He saved his marriage and it lasted.
Thank you for the feedback. I agree that my approach is not standard. I was very direct with my W and did say that I am not going to do limbo. While I don't want to D, if she cannot commit to working on our M, then I have no other choice but to go through with the divorce mediation process.
I also believe that the A is over, for the most part. She is not planning to travel this week, but does need to be in NYC next week. That will have been four weeks since she was last in NYC, and that time four weeks ago was for one night.
My belief is that my W wants to see more consistent change before she takes the risk of jumping back into the M. She has brought up a lot of issues of which I knew nothing about. She confided that she spoke with an attorney two years ago about divorce but never went through with it.
I have continued to force a decision. I told her that we need closure of some sort. If she wants to D, I will not stop it but at least we can move on with our lives.
what is she afraid of losing...she has said that she is afraid of losing me and our family. in fact, yesterday she said that her biggest fear is that I move on, meet someone else and continue to do the good things that I have been doing lately. but she also admitted that she fears recommitting to the M and that I go back to my old ways.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
"Thank you for your advice. I know she is having a PA and she knows I know it. She just needs to admit to it.
How are things in your sitch?
Per DB, I am focusing on me and becoming a husband only a fool would leave. Right now, I know she needs space. She needs to think. My wife is going through a MLC (turned 40, father just died, trying to juggle a very demanding job with being a good mom, coaching sports, etc.). This A is an escape for her from the stress of life. I recognize that things have not been great in our M, but they were not terrible either. It is totally salvageable, but she needs to want to save it".
Sorry it took me almost 2month to reply to your question, I've been super busy with work and my daughter.
Yes my wife is back after 9 month of her brutal affair. I'm guessing she finally drank some holly water lol, and decided to end it 3months ago. She's now willing to do anything to win my trust and affection back. I still struggle with the way I was treated, the lies, her manipulative ways to get money and sweet ride out of me, which in most part was planned with OM. I'm not sure I can trust her again, but I'm willing to try with my eyes wide open.
Divorce is never easy, but it's one of those life events that deserves a serious postmortem examination to figure out what really happened. I went through hell dealing with my W affair shodan. I almost lost everything, my home, job and my mind. And from that failure and experience I've learned a lot about what it takes to make a relationship work. (Patient)
We tend to learn best from failure, and when a marriage fails or affair surface you're certainly primed for a lot of learning and self-reflection. On the surface, my marriage had all the makings of something that should work: no abuse, no money problem and we seemingly got along great. But if I'm perfectly honest, we sucked at actually dealing with issues.The distant and disrespect was another factor. Looking back on the whole experience, I've walked away a slightly smarter man. DB was for me to work on me and be the best man I can be for my daughter.
I'll be blunt here shodan, you wife need to enjoy her affair for now. You can not stop it! Nothing you do will change her mind until she's ready to stop it. Shodan also need to take care of shodan. Keep the focus on you and the kids, detach, and take care of your kids. She will come back but when she's ready to come back.
My belief is that my W wants to see more consistent change before she takes the risk of jumping back into the M. She has brought up a lot of issues of which I knew nothing about. She confided that she spoke with an attorney two years ago about divorce but never went through with it
This statement bothers me. She denies her affair, gets to continue it, and will only want back into the marriage if YOU continue your changes (Super-husband/trained-seal act). The mature way to handle this is to see a marriage counselor and lay it on the table. The wrong way is to have an affair, deny it, put you though hell, and then demand change before changing her mind. How do you plan to handle the denial of an affair? How long do you need to keep your changes up? Forever? Good luck with that. When there are other things she doesn't like in the future (which inevitably she will, since you are a flawed human, like the rest of us) will she go to a counselor or choose to get involved in another affair which she won't tell you about?
Your wife handles problems by unilaterally choosing to pull out of the marriage and have affairs. When is HER behavior/attitude change going to come into this? Unless she SERIOUSLY owns up to the pain she's caused you, admits her affair and asks for your forgiveness, and has an "aha" moment when she realizes she needs to take 50% of the responsibility for working through your marriage issues, this isn't going to work.
Quote:
What is she afraid of losing...she has said that she is afraid of losing me and our family. in fact, yesterday she said that her biggest fear is that I move on, meet someone else and continue to do the good things that I have been doing lately.
She's not afraid of losing you. She doesn't want you as you are. She's afraid of losing the guy you haven't become yet. She's waiting to see what kind of super-husband/trained-seal you can become. She's afraid that you might turn out to be an emotional/relational/sexual winning lottery ticket. Shodan, she has to be afraid of losing you as you are now and afraid of putting your kids through a divorce. What I see is you are the only one really afraid here. And you're scrambling furiously to be the kind of guy your wife doesn't want to lose.
Then you said:
Quote:
but she also admitted that she fears recommitting to the M and that I go back to my old ways.
Guess what, Shodan. You will go back to your old ways. All of us think our changes are permanent. We SWEAR we'll never slip back. We all eventually do. This doesn't mean that you can never change, or that, in a relationship with someone who is committed to your marriage, you can't compromise, fill their love bucket, speak their love language, etc. But right now, your marriage's survival is predicated on YOU keeping up this impossible game of walking on eggshells, self-improving, GAL-ing, and being hyper-tuned into your wife's needs. It will always be a game of, "Shodan, what have you done for me lately?" How long can you live your life like that? And let's assume she wants back in. Can you REALLY keep this up? How will you be able to live with your wife's denial of her affair and refusing to deal with it? How will you ever know she's stopped? Are you prepared to check on her for the rest of your married life? The affair is the elephant in the room and she's lying to you about it.
There are two guys on the DB boards who were the expert coaches on how to save your marriage. We all turned to them for advice. I spoke with both of them on the phone multiple times. Much like Starsky, they were revered as guys who beat the odds. But unlike Starsky, their marriage was saved much the way yours seemed to be being saved: they went on a furious GAL program and did tons of 180's and LRT. They became the better option. And yes, their wives wanted back into the marriage. And yes, we all cheered their victories. Two-Three years later, they were both divorced. What happened? Well, for one, their wives never changed. It was all about their husband's becoming better people. Both of their wives went into counseling and even apologized for their affairs. But both of the apologies were perfunctory and not heart-felt. Second, their husbands (our heroes) eventually slipped back into old behavior. They could only be super-husbands for so long. Third, their wives were never faced with the REAL possibility of losing their husbands the first go-around. Their husbands never showed back-bone or resolve, and somewhere their wives lost respect for them. In they end both set of walk-away-wives got into a new set of affairs and divorced their divorce-busting husbands. One of these guys tried to do GAL-ing and 180's again, but his wife didn't buy it and didn't want to be married to a less-than-perfect husband. The other guy went off the deep end and his life was shattered (lost his house, etc.)
Starsky went about it differently wit more resolve up front, and he's still married. Have a heart-to-heart with him. Please do this.
I strongly suggest you go the Chump Lady site and look at some of the articles on "The Humiliating Dance of Pick Me" and the "Unified Theory of Cake". It's hilarious. It may not change your mind, but it may offer a sobering and Starky-esque perspective.
