Should I go? Advice?

[blndsid]

I have to admit, that was not the story I was expecting. However, I knew a guy who once fell for the "I want to be with another woman while you weep softly in the corner alone." That didn't end well either. Frankly, at least you negotiated better than he did.

My WAW propositioned me for a 3-way with another woman a few weeks ago, at a wedding of all places. I knew of her curiosity from my recon so I played it cool when it came up as my W sat in the OW's lap as the OW explained how it would work. Based on my friends experience, and the devil look in their eyes, I played along but respectfully declined.

That all being said, I am not a vet and this has a whole other twist that I have so far avoided in my sitch. My initial impression, as an adult you should have known this was going to end poorly. I understand the initial thought made it sound good in theory. I at least had a friend who shared his story to help me miss that mistake. Not to say my W hasn't done it anyhow, just without me. Opening a marriage and not expecting it to go all the way open, tough call if you ask Captain Hindsight.

Any advice I would give beyond hindsight criticism would probably be wrong. This is where I step back, quietly, out of the room. I do intend to keep an eye on this. Sorry to be of no help.

A good man has got to know his limitations. Good luck, God bless.

[blndsid]

Ok, after re-reading your story I have a little advice. You both opened the door on the marriage so you both need to take a step back and see what you want in a marriage going forward (can't change the past). Since you can only work on you, and CANNOT work on her, you need to realize you share blame in this, and I think you know that already. I'm sure you'll need an apology for not understanding her point of view regarding an opposite sex partner. Again, Captain Hindsight says that should have been seen as a possible reaction to your A. Know that if you're lucky she will talk about it and you'll have to eat crow when she explains all the things you did wrong.

Summary, you're both to blame. You can only work on you, so focus on you. Eat crow, then apologize and thank her sincerely for telling you what you did wrong. Continue to work on you.

If things continue to deteriorate beyond that, seek help from someone smarted than me. Good luck, God bless.

[Chnging]

Update: I'll spare the long rambling of everything that's happening.

So, mixed signals, hugs, etc. Friday she tells me she's leaving for the weekend again. I say I've rethought things and I won't be leaving the house at all. She's free to as she wants, and is welcome at the house and to be with me and children. She was very upset about this and began yelling, and threw things. We briefly discussed support in the divorce, and I informed her she was wrong about the calculations.

I have children all weekend. We had a great time.

Sunday afternoon she calls. We spent a couple of hours on the phone. She is bringing up that me not being cooperative with the divorce, agreeing to fair splitting of everything, custody, etc. is "more of the same" and that if I really feel the way I claim to about her, love her, want to keep our family together and rebuild our marriage, then I wouldn't be 'treating her this way', and would be cooperative and fair in discussing our divorce.

She says she can't spend time with the children on the weekends because I am around. She wants alone time at the home and with the children and says I am forcing her to be away because she doesn't want to spend time with me. I personally call BS on all of this. If she wanted to spend time with the children alone on a weekend, I have no issue with that. She hasn't asked.

So...I have a consultation with a lawyer this afternoon, but I did send her a proposed 'nesting plan' this morning. Basically we switch off at the house each week, Monday - Sunday. She has our youngest during the days, so my week on she will arrive at the house by 7:20 am for him and I take the oldest to school and go to work. She picks up from school and has children until I'm home from work, then I take over and she leaves.

During her week on I arrive at the house by 7:20 am and take oldest to school, and she has the kids for the week.

I stated special events and holidays we can both be with kids or have access and make arrangements as needed. No non-family overnight guests at the family home.

The thing is, while this is being 'fair' to her, and giving her what she wants, and playing nice, and possibly showing that I am changing, it's not what I think is best for the kids.

I also feel I'm being manipulated. If I stand my ground and am assertive about what I think is best for our children and providing a stable environment, she argues that I am showing her who I really am and pushing her away. That I am not someone who loves her or is safe, and I am not someone she wants to reconcile with.

What's the DB approach here? I'm trying to be PMA and friendly and working on me, but I don't know how much to give and cooperate, and when to stand firm, whether it upsets her or not.

[sandi2]

You said in your very first post that you saw the similarities in the stitches, but most posters here do not come from open marriages. Therefore, I strongly encourage you to make the financial sacrifice to get professional guidance from the DB Coaches available.

[Chnging]

Sandi - Instead of viewing my sitch as unique because we had a non-monogamous relationship for a time, I think it would be more accurate to think of my M as having a history of infidelity on both sides. Mostly inappropriate communication, and very little PA or EA, although those have occurred recently.

The 'open' or non-monogamous portion of my M was brief, relatively, and absolutely a huge mistake that we both thought wasn't at the time.

I don't believe that I can't benefit from other's advice given my / our circumstances. As it stands now, we are trying the 'nesting' starting this week.

I think that if my M is to be reconciled, perhaps I need to give my W her space to figure out what she needs to figure out. I am continuing to work on me, seeing IC, examining my responsibilities and priorities, etc.

I am only asking for advice on how I should interact with my WAW, in light of my equal transgressions, but still very much the one that feels he is the LBS, and wants his M to change. DB and DR don't seem to address sitch's where both spouses have As, one in the past, one currently, etc. The books tend to lean on one spouse being faithful, and the other not.

[MrBond]

"Sandi - Instead of viewing my sitch as unique because we had a non-monogamous relationship for a time, I think it would be more accurate to think of my M as having a history of infidelity on both sides. "

No, Sandi is right. See, you're STILL trying to control things. Now you're trying to control how YOU think people should see your sitch. It's like with your fooling around. When you wanted to do it, it wasn't seen as an A, but now your W wants to do it and you're saying it's adultery.

" DB and DR don't seem to address sitch's where both spouses have As, one in the past, one currently, etc. The books tend to lean on one spouse being faithful, and the other not."

They actually do. You are just looking for an exact answer for your specific problem. There isn't one although I've seen many people like your situation on these boards throughout the years.

Rather than disputing people's advice to you because you don't "agree" with them, how about listening for a change and try to see if there is any grain of truth that can be used.

You're not doing much listening right now.

[Chnging]

Mr Bond - I do appreciate your input. I feel as though I haven't been clear.

"When you wanted to do it, it wasn't seen as an A, but now your W wants to do it and you're saying it's adultery."

My W was the first of the two of us to have an extra-marital relationship. Through discussion, and eventually consent from both of us, she began a physical relationship with a woman. This lasted on and off for about 2 years. Because of other issues in my W's past, this was a part of her sexuality she had denied and never explored.

Was this a good idea for our M? Probably not. But we agreed, and I consented.

She encouraged me, because of my higher desire sexually, to also develop a physical relationship, with a woman, outside of our marriage. I resisted for a while. Then tested the waters with a few dates, and nothing of ill consequence happened. I then developed a relationship with one woman, with my W's full knowledge and consent.

The issue my W eventually had with it, was the emotional closeness in that relationship.

I hurt her by not listening to her and dismissing her fears.

She then used that hurt to justify having a secret, hidden, lied about, PA with a man, without my knowledge or consent.

My reaction to that was not good. Although, I immediately ended all contact with the woman I was seeing. And asked that neither of us continue to do anything that would further damage our marriage.

She did not, and instead began communicating with and dating several men.

Does this help to clarify this situation?

I am not in denial about my actions or what I have done. I am listening, and weighing the advice I have received here, although I think the facts have been miscommunicated.

Prior to all of this, my W has at 4+ different times over the years, had inappropriate communications with other men, far before we ever had an alternative relationship. I had transgressed once before that with online communications.

So, please, tell me if you believe I am wrong. I feel it is more accurate that my M has been plagued with repeated infidelities of varying degrees, by both of us.

I, in no way, am trying to control perceptions, or downplay my responsibility in my M. It's not a matter of controlling how people see my sitch, it's that the way it is being perceived is factually incorrect.

[MrBond]

Wait a minute. When you first came on here, you posted... "I began dating a woman, who was also married, with the full knowledge and consent of my W. However, this quickly became an issue because my W was uncomfortable with me and the OW closeness. My W then began to express desire to see other men, "

So what is the truth? Did you start it or did your W? THAT is important.

[Chnging]

MrBond - I have been clear and honest about my sitch. The post prior to your last one explains who did what first.

Update:

Today I picked up S7 for school this morning. W had coffee in a to-go cup for me. I was gracious and said I appreciated it.

Later in the morning she texted me. Here's that conversation:

W: How are you today?

Me: I'm great. Busy and productive morning. How are you?

W: Meh.

Me: Why meh?

W: Same reasons as always.
W: Lost. Sad. Lonely.

Me: It is difficult and distressing. I'm sorry to hear you're feeling like that. Anything I can do to help?

W: You don't feel that way?
W: No?

Me: I am sad. I don't feel lost or lonely. I have other feelings. I'm good though. If there is something I can do for you, or you want to talk about anything, I'm here. What do you want? What might make you feel better?

W: I don't know.
W: Why don't you feel those ways?

Me: I don't feel lost, because I feel I have been lost. I was in a fog about who I was and what I wanted, what was important. I don't feel that way anymore. I feel very clear about what is important to me and what I want. What I am committed to. And clearer about what I will accept and not accept from myself and others.

As far as feeling lonely...I don't feel lonely that we're not together. It's not a matter of lack of company or companionship. I am sad that you and I aren't connected. You are the most special person in my life. I feel deep loss.

I am thinking through a lot of things.

an hour later
W: I don't understand.

Me: what do you not understand?

W: Why you are not more upset. Why you aren't lonely. Why you don't feel lost going through this.

I didn't know how to respond. About to go see IC.

She texted again in an hour and said: I guess I am far from your communication priority today.


Thoughts? How should I respond? What is going on here? I thought I explained myself, and she acted as if I hadn't said any of what I said.

I'm not sure what she wants or needs here. I'm not sure what to say, or what I want to say.

[GoatGal]

Okay, so whatever alternative sitch you may have going on I'll put aside for the moment:
(I'm all for doing what works for you as a couple, no judgement here, but promises are promises and cheating is cheating, however it looks. The principles for DBing remain the same, I would think.)


Wow.
I think you projected just the right amount of empathy coupled with the stance that you will be ok with or without her.

You'd prefer "with", but you'll be all right either way. You let her know you cared, but you'll get through it. You didn't try and "fix" it for her or make her feel better about her circumstances. Which SHE chose.

Clearly this is bothering her, why you're not melting into a puddle of mush.

Good job being a strong and clearly communicating man.

I like it.

Yes. SHE IS far from being your #1 communicating priority. She wants out, she doesn't get to be #1 any more.

That's life.

You continue to be kind, but distant, and focus on yourself and your needs.

In my opinion, you were a bit TOO nice on the outset, but followed up nicely with your
"What's important to me/what I'm committed to" statement.

That has "strong man" written all over it.

The other R issues will need to be dealt with later on, the miscommunication and over-stepping of agreements, but for now this is a good start.

---(G)GGG