This has been a rough few weeks. Apologies for the wall of text here.
My W and I have been together for 14yrs and 8yrs married. We were pretty much high school sweethearts even though we never were there together because of the difference in grade level. I was initially friends with her brother and I would go to her parents house often and through the years I started to notice her and then told her I liked her a couple years later. We never really 'dated' per se but we always hung out. Her family moved to Utah from MN in '02, and we kept in touch. I decided to go on a church mission for 2 yrs (mormon missionary) and she waited for me. After I got back we dated and there was one point we broke up for 4 months because she wasn't sure about the future she wanted with me so she took some time from our relationship to think about it. We get back together and 6mos later I asked her to marry me. This is our pre-marriage story in a nutshell.
Throughout our marriage we always had few issues. Your typical issues early on in the marriage but she always complained about not having enough passion in the marriage. When we would have an argument, which was not that often btw, it was that issue that she always brought up which was the lack of passion in our relationship. I just never knew what real passion in a marriage was growing up, since my parents never showed in their marriage. My parents divorced when I was 16. So I thought the things I was doing, like working, being there for her, talking to her, was just enough. There was one time when she gave me a book on '1001 ways to be romantic' and I read it for the first few weeks and did a few things but I never really stuck with it, for reason I don't really know. Maybe I just thought I could just do them on my own and not need a book to tell me, I'm not sure.
I did have an addiction to porn which started very early on in my life and I feel that it has affected my abilities to maintain the passion and affection in our relationship, for reasons we are all to familiar with when pornography is mentioned. We had sex about 2-3 times a month consistently throughout our whole marriage. A few times we would go 1, almost 2 months without sex. I had this problem the whole time but was to ashamed and scared to tell her. It was only until this breaking point in our marriage 3 weeks ago that I had the courage to admit to her that I had this problem. She told me that regardless if I told her or not doesn't change the fact that she lost her love for me. She told me she would have helped me through it if it wasn't too late.
We just celebrated our 8yr anniversary (08/31/14) on a 7-day cruise in the western Caribbean. I thought we had a wonderful time and were connecting really well. We had sex 4-5 days of the 7 we were our there. I thought it was great. A week later her grandma died. She was somewhat close to her grandma (dad's mom) but her grief was not anywhere near where her dad was, but it was still tough for her. However I don't think it played any role in the issues of our marriage shortly thereafter. During that time I was there to console her and make sure she was doing ok.
We came back from the funeral in Utah and the first few days were fine, I felt like everything was going back to normal and I was doing a lot of things around the house and the day before we split up I just was really annoyed about the fact that I was doing everything around the house, like cleaning, taking care of the cats, dishes, while she did nothing. My mistake was that I was still very much dwelling within my ego and not thinking about how I should resolve this, so I distanced myself and she did the same thing.
The next day after work I just got fed up and right before things went down hill I was laying on the bed being distant and angry and she laid on me, kind of cuddling like trying to make me feel better but I sort of resisted and she backed away. At that point I think she had gotten angry and really distanced herself from me. After that, I decided we should get something to eat, I asked her if she wanted to come with and initially she said no but I told her I wanted her to come with me. It was during our time in the car when I told her I was mad that she was not doing anything around the house. Her response was that she didn't want to. Then I made the huge mistake of saying 'what should we do then? split up?' Which I completely regret because I said it out of anger/emotion and didn't know how she was going to take it. Then she asked why I kept bringing it up as a solution, which I might have said that a couple times before but mostly out of anger because I wanted her to say that it wasn't a solution. Then I asked if it would be better if we just separated and she said, 'Do you think it would be weird if I said yes'. My heart sank and I was feeling so many emotions at that point, anger, sadness, resentment etc. I said ok, I'll pack my things and stay at my moms house, so I did.
The weeks following, I did everything wrong. I wrote her a heartfelt letter, I begged, I pleaded, etc. I did find out about an EA. She told me she has been texting a friend from work and she told me it was sort of an EA. The day I found out, I texted her EA partner telling him to stop texting my W. I also told my W to stop texting him as well which mostly she did stop, however I know they talk at work. Then this past Saturday I found out she went to his house to 'play video games' and I confronted her through text. She called and we talked and brought up all the reasons why she wanted to divorce me again. Her EA partner is married and has 4 kids, one of them just born this past August, so I don't know what he see's in him other than he's giving her emotional support.
The past 3 weeks have been a rollercoaster. I just don't know whether to give up and let her go and continue with the 180s and GAL activies and move on. I've read DR and have been seeing a therapist, which helps. She doesn't want to go to MC but she did mention she wanted to do IC, but she hasn't scheduled anything yet. I'm sort of at a lost and starting to think there is nothing I can do.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
She hasn't told much of her family yet. She's only talked to her older brother briefly about it. She confides in a close coworker girlfriend who was also recently divorced (little over a year ago), which worries me a bit. However, she hasn't talked to any attorney yet.
I failed to mention that I also got the ILYBNILWY statement. She also mentioned early on that she didn't see a future with me and she wasn't sure that she could ever have that deep connection with me again, which really hurt.
There was a talk we had 1 week after the separation that I regretfully asked if there was any chance for reconciliation and she responded that it was an unfair question, which I understood after it was already too late.
In regards to the porn issue, I have since quit cold turkey last month and continue to avoid it, which has proven to be pretty easy so far. Since then I have felt a huge change in my attitude and confidence which is helping get through this.
I really do love my W with all my heart and still have a little hope that she might change her mind and decide to want to work things out. It is still early in the process so I do realize that I have to keep working on myself to change and become a better person. It definitely is tough going through the motions though.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Oops just saw the part where you said you read DR. What changes have you made and besides passion, what other issues were there in the M?
Some of the other issues we had were that we didn't resolve conflicts very well. Like I mentioned, I tend to distance myself from conflicts instead of talking through them. She always complained of her having to approach me every time I became distant after an argument. I do realize that and have reread DR, read articles and watched videos on how to better resolve conflicts within a R. I have applied some of those principles in the past couple chances I've had to communicate with her.
Even in the past I have tried to avoid becoming distant after conflicts, yet I fall back sometimes and forget, because I'm stuck in my ego trip.
I've been a keeping eye contact with her as I listen to her, validating her even if I don't tend to agree with something she said.
She did say that she loved everything about our marriage BUT the passion and affection part. This was her most important need that I was not able to fulfill consistently. With that I am currently taking an online course to help me work on that aspect.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Okay, so breaking things down... (just be forewarned that you may not like what you hear, but nonetheless, if you want to save your M, then you should look at all advice, especially those that you disagree with).
"but she always complained about not having enough passion in the marriage. When we would have an argument, which was not that often btw, it was that issue that she always brought up which was the lack of passion in our relationship."
That is a great straight up reason and a VERY important one. I just never knew what real passion in a marriage was growing up,"
So? That's just an excuse. You could have learned about it when she brought it up to you. You just didn't think it was that important to you.
"since my parents never showed in their marriage. My parents divorced when I was 16. So I thought the things I was doing, like working, being there for her, talking to her, was just enough."
You're not your parents. You have control over your own life. Adding your parents in there is just an excuse.
"There was one time when she gave me a book on '1001 ways to be romantic'"
Wow that is a definite clue if I ever heard one and you ignored it.
"and I read it for the first few weeks and did a few things but I never really stuck with it, for reason I don't really know. Maybe I just thought I could just do them on my own and not need a book to tell me, I'm not sure."
No you were just lazy. It wasn't important to you, so you ignored it, therefore ignoring her needs. Your needs were more important to her than yours.
"I did have an addiction to porn which started very early on in my life and I feel that it has affected my abilities to maintain the passion and affection in our relationship, for reasons we are all to familiar with when pornography is mentioned."
That's a cop out. You could just as easily incorporated the porn into your romantic life. You could have tried new techniques on your W that you saw or learned how to seduce your W. You just didn't want to.
"We had sex about 2-3 times a month consistently throughout our whole marriage. A few times we would go 1, almost 2 months without sex. I had this problem the whole time but was to ashamed and scared to tell her. It was only until this breaking point in our marriage 3 weeks ago that I had the courage to admit to her that I had this problem. She told me that regardless if I told her or not doesn't change the fact that she lost her love for me. She told me she would have helped me through it if it wasn't too late."
And she was probably right. You're pretty young. Why didn't you have more sex?
"She was somewhat close to her grandma (dad's mom) but her grief was not anywhere near where her dad was,"
Why would you say something like that? Why compare her to her dad? She's your W and her grandmother died. Period. Do you honestly think that she shouldn't be as sad as her dad? It shows you don't understand her.
"but it was still tough for her."
Of course it was.
"However I don't think it played any role in the issues of our marriage shortly thereafter. During that time I was there to console her and make sure she was doing ok."
It played a big part. If you were off putting to her and not really understood how much the death affected her, it would show her that you didn't care. Or at least not care to the extent that she wanted.
"We came back from the funeral in Utah and the first few days were fine, I felt like everything was going back to normal and I was doing a lot of things around the house and the day before we split up I just was really annoyed about the fact that I was doing everything around the house, like cleaning, taking care of the cats, dishes, while she did nothing."
By that point she was already thinking of leaving.
"My mistake was that I was still very much dwelling within my ego and not thinking about how I should resolve this, so I distanced myself and she did the same thing."
Yes that is the worst thing you could have done. Do you normally distance yourself when there's conflict?
"The next day after work I just got fed up and right before things went down hill I was laying on the bed being distant and angry and she laid on me, kind of cuddling like trying to make me feel better but I sort of resisted and she backed away."
Wow you really hurt her. That's obvious. You acted like a spoiled child.
"At that point I think she had gotten angry and really distanced herself from me. After that, I decided we should get something to eat, I asked her if she wanted to come with and initially she said no but I told her I wanted her to come with me. It was during our time in the car when I told her I was mad that she was not doing anything around the house. Her response was that she didn't want to."
She's not your slave or housekeeper. She was going through alot of things. If she normally kept the house tidy and then she stopped, then you should have picked up the fact that there was something bothering her. And now look where it's gotten you. Now you're the one whose going to have to keep everything tidy all by yourself once she's gone.
"Then I made the huge mistake of saying 'what should we do then? split up?' Which I completely regret because I said it out of anger/emotion and didn't know how she was going to take it. Then she asked why I kept bringing it up as a solution, which I might have said that a couple times before but mostly out of anger because I wanted her to say that it wasn't a solution."
Why do you want to control her like that? When you kept saying that you would leave her, that took away her safety net that she had with you. No woman wants to go out with a guy that they feel is going to leave them at any time. In this case, you pretty much told her that you were going to leave her because she didn't clean the house for a few days.
Seriously?
"Then I asked if it would be better if we just separated and she said, 'Do you think it would be weird if I said yes'. My heart sank and I was feeling so many emotions at that point, anger, sadness, resentment etc. I said ok, I'll pack my things and stay at my moms house, so I did."
Well you did tell her that you would split up. She just finally stood up to you and called your bluff which you couldn't back up.
"The day I found out, I texted her EA partner telling him to stop texting my W. I also told my W to stop texting him as well which mostly she did stop, however I know they talk at work."
More control on your part. You want to control every part of her life it seems. Her cleaning, her life, etc.
"Then this past Saturday I found out she went to his house to 'play video games' and I confronted her through text. She called and we talked and brought up all the reasons why she wanted to divorce me again. Her EA partner is married and has 4 kids, one of them just born this past August, so I don't know what he see's in him other than he's giving her emotional support."
Really? You don't see it? Emotional support IS A BIG THING! And it's something that you've shown that you didn't want to give her before. Let's put it this way. She chose a M'd guy with 4 kids OVER you. This says less about her and more about the kind of situation you created for her that made her choose that over you.
"The past 3 weeks have been a rollercoaster. I just don't know whether to give up and let her go and continue with the 180s and GAL activies and move on. I've read DR and have been seeing a therapist, which helps. She doesn't want to go to MC but she did mention she wanted to do IC, but she hasn't scheduled anything yet. I'm sort of at a lost and starting to think there is nothing I can do."
There's plenty you can do. First thing is to grow up. You are going to have to learn to understand her emotional needs. REALLY understand them and start showing compassion and understanding. It seems like you have a hard time doing that and put yourself first.
Are you willing to change?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
2-at all times, you must GAL and do 180 whether you move on or not. This is about you becoming a better you, she will either respond or she won't and then you can cross that bridge when you reach it.
3-i don't think living with your mother is the right scenario here. Seems like you're old enough to be out on your own.
Last edited by Cristy; 10/20/1410:49 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other websites, books and/or authors
Resentment occurs when we aren't doing what we need to care for ourselves, though we expect others to do it for us.
MrBond, Thank you for that dose of reality. It was really hard to read every one of your replies but I really do see it as constructive criticism, which I do need.
In my mind I seem to have to make excuses or give myself reasons as to why these things are happening. I guess its my way of coping with the situation.
Quote:
"since my parents never showed in their marriage. My parents divorced when I was 16. So I thought the things I was doing, like working, being there for her, talking to her, was just enough."
You're not your parents. You have control over your own life. Adding your parents in there is just an excuse.
I think I just subconsciously tried to treat my relationship how my parents did when growing up, not realizing that what they were doing, my dad specifically, did not work out in the end.
Quote:
"However I don't think it played any role in the issues of our marriage shortly thereafter. During that time I was there to console her and make sure she was doing ok."
It played a big part. If you were off putting to her and not really understood how much the death affected her, it would show her that you didn't care. Or at least not care to the extent that she wanted.
This one cut to the core. I don't believe I was off-putting at anytime during or right after the funeral but I definitely showed her I cared and that I was there for her. But yes, to a certain extend she may have wanted me do more to show her I cared.
Quote:
"My mistake was that I was still very much dwelling within my ego and not thinking about how I should resolve this, so I distanced myself and she did the same thing."
Yes that is the worst thing you could have done. Do you normally distance yourself when there's conflict?
I have in the past and I was actively working on avoiding that behavior even before the BD. It was one of the slip-ups I had and it came back to bite me for the worse.
Quote:
She's not your slave or housekeeper. She was going through alot of things. If she normally kept the house tidy and then she stopped, then you should have picked up the fact that there was something bothering her. And now look where it's gotten you. Now you're the one whose going to have to keep everything tidy all by yourself once she's gone.
She didn't normally keep the house clean, it was mostly me, but I did mention to her once that it made me feel loved when she helped me once in a while around the house. Again, you're right that I didn't pick up that there was something bothering her and rather than distancing myself, I should have approached her lovingly to find out what was bothering her.
Quote:
Really? You don't see it? Emotional support IS A BIG THING! And it's something that you've shown that you didn't want to give her before. Let's put it this way. She chose a M'd guy with 4 kids OVER you. This says less about her and more about the kind of situation you created for her that made her choose that over you.
I am realizing this more than ever. Its not that I didn't know that it was important before, like you said earlier, I placed my needs above hers, which was not the right thing to do.
Quote:
There's plenty you can do. First thing is to grow up. You are going to have to learn to understand her emotional needs. REALLY understand them and start showing compassion and understanding. It seems like you have a hard time doing that and put yourself first.
Are you willing to change?
I do need to grow up. Reading DR has really helped me how to show more compassion when comes to the needs of my W. I think that I definitely need to get rid of my controlling habits and start focusing on how I need to improve myself to rise above that trait.
Again THANK YOU for your feedback, it has woken me up a bit and made look at myself differently on what I need to do to make this change. I am willing to change, and I am willing to do anything I can to make them and KEEP them.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
2-at all times, you must GAL and do 180 whether you move on or not. This is about you becoming a better you, she will either respond or she won't and then you can cross that bridge when you reach it.
3-i don't think living with your mother is the right scenario here. Seems like you're old enough to be out on your own.
2stubborn2quit, Thanks for your suggestions!
(1)
(2)Its been tough but I'm still continuing to GAL and 180. I do have to look at my 180s again to make sure I'm making progress on them.
(3)My wife is staying at our house that we had newly built and I currently cannot afford to get my own place or go to a hotel/motel for that matter, so my moms place was the only viable option at this time.
Last edited by Cristy; 10/20/1410:51 PM. Reason: per forum agreement, do not mention other websites, books or authors
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
So she also worked and expected her to clean most of the time. So prior to the BD, how many times have you been romantic to her? What was the issue with sex? Did you not want it?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
So she also worked and expected her to clean most of the time. So prior to the BD, how many times have you been romantic to her? What was the issue with sex? Did you not want it?
It was actually not that often that I would expect her to clean, it was the fact that she never offered to help was what bothered me the most, otherwise I'm usually just fine doing it myself, it was just this one time that for some reason it just bothered me more than others.
I suppose in the last few months before BD I was romantic a few times. I would randomly say I love you when she wouldn't expect it. I would rub her back at times and assure her that I loved her. I'm reading 5LL and now know that her main LL is physical touch. She always loved being hugged, kissed and hold hands. Things which I did do a lot, but the sex part of physical touch LL I know is an area I severely lacked. I admit that I did not do enough to initiate times for intimacy and that is something I need to work on.
I think that both of us were somewhat uncomfortable talking about sex, how often we wanted it, how important it was to us and therefore expected that it would just happen when the times were right. There were times when I've wanted sex and she would reciprocate but those times were few, a lot of it being because of the porn would kill my sex drive, and therefore caused me just not initiate. Or she would initiate sometimes and even though I wanted it, I told her I wasn't in the mood and couldn't pull myself together because my drive just wasn't there and really felt ashamed.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Past few days I've noticed that I wake up actively thinking about my M and sometimes it doesn't bother me too much but this morning was hard, I couldn't get it out of my head even though I was trying to force it.
Eventually I just had to physically pull myself up and get ready for the day and I was better. Anyone feel that way every morning when they wake up just thinking about your R or W?
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
" I would randomly say I love you when she wouldn't expect it. I would rub her back at times and assure her that I loved her."
That's NOT romantic. Those are just things that you should have done DAILY. Romantic is roses, wine and dine, dancing, a weekend getaway, etc.
"Things which I did do a lot, but the sex part of physical touch LL I know is an area I severely lacked. I admit that I did not do enough to initiate times for intimacy and that is something I need to work on."
You didn't want sex with her?
"I think that both of us were somewhat uncomfortable talking about sex,"
She wasn't. Why do you think she got you that book?
"how often we wanted it, how important it was to us and therefore expected that it would just happen when the times were right."
It's so obvious that this was just YOUR thinking and NOT HERS.
"There were times when I've wanted sex and she would reciprocate but those times were few, a lot of it being because of the porn would kill my sex drive, and therefore caused me just not initiate. Or she would initiate sometimes and even though I wanted it, I told her I wasn't in the mood and couldn't pull myself together because my drive just wasn't there and really felt ashamed."
Are you going to a C for this?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
I need to find that book again and just read through that so I understand what I will need to do be more romantic for my future relationship whether it be with my W or someone else. I do some those things on occasion, but I know there are far more things out there that I can do to create a romantic relationship.
There were times when I didn't, but like I have mentioned, it was hard for me while going through the whole porn thing and feeling ashamed about it to the point where I just couldn't do it when she wanted it. Don't get me wrong, throughout my marriage I have loved my wife with all my heart and this was the the biggest hindrance in giving my all sexually. I do desire my wife and still do, that is why I am here to get help along with things I have been doing to get myself in a better position in the M.
I am going to a Therapist for all the issues I am having with the whole situation including the porn addiction and it has helped A LOT. I feel a lot better about myself and more confident about changes that I continue to make for myself.
MrBond as critical as you have been, I am grateful for your suggestions and opinions. I am looking within myself to make the changes to make my future relationship much more fulfilling.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
I've recently started meditation to help me feel better and happier. I realized that I have been really insensitive throughout the relationship because of my negativity and just plain immaturity in handling issues, so meditation is helping with that.
Been getting out and trying to make new friends through meetups and social events to GAL.
My W loves playing the piano and I was thinking about taking up piano lessons for myself since I've always wanted to learn and so I could encourage her hobby a little bit.
Today I got a text from my W saying she wanted to get together and talk. Its making me a little nervous because I just don't have a good feeling about what we might talk about. This is my negative feelings taking over and I know I should think of this as a small step forward that she is even reaching out to me to want to talk.
I'm going to work on my PMA and that I should expect nothing. I need to calm down and read sandi's rules again so I don't do anything that would set me back.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
"I realized that I have been really insensitive throughout the relationship because of my negativity and just plain immaturity in handling issues, so meditation is helping with that."
And what ACTIONS are you doing to show that new and improved attitude?
"Been getting out and trying to make new friends through meetups and social events to GAL."
Good.
"My W loves playing the piano and I was thinking about taking up piano lessons for myself since I've always wanted to learn and so I could encourage her hobby a little bit."
Okay, but make sure this is more for you than her.
"Today I got a text from my W saying she wanted to get together and talk. Its making me a little nervous because I just don't have a good feeling about what we might talk about. This is my negative feelings taking over and I know I should think of this as a small step forward that she is even reaching out to me to want to talk."
Be prepared if it goes in a negative direction.
Good luck.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Just got back from meeting my W for dinner. I think it went very well. I was able to keep the meeting positive and let her bring up R talks. Started talking about how our weekend was and how work is going. I do feel I talked a little to much about my weekend but she seemed to be happy that I was getting out and making friends and reaching out to my existing friends. We joked a bit, I love seeing her laugh and be happy. Kept good eye contact throughout to show her I was listening. Overall, we genuinely enjoyed each others company which helped keep the positive vibes.
We talked a little bit about separation logistics, the main one tonight was splitting up our phone plan. She wants to be on her own plan. She is the main account holder on it now. I told her I would rather not split it up until we were sure of the D. I also explained to her since we were grandfathered into an unlimited data plan, that I wanted to wait. She then told me in a rather firm tone, that we are splitting up and we need to eventually do it and she wanted to get a new phone. She didn't want to commit to another 2-year contract with me on the account so I suggested we go see someone at the carrier store to discuss how we could split up the account while keeping our existing data plans. That diffused the tension a little bit.
We then started talking logistics of the separation. Talked about things we need to split up financially, mostly in brief so we know whats out there, if it gets to that point. The biggest thing being our house. With winter coming soon, I told her it will take longer to sell the home so we would need to be prepared for that. Once the house is sold, the splitting of other finances will be a breeze since most of our CCs are in our own individual names and we wouldn't be putting a significant amount of our income toward the mortgage anymore. It was short but I validated everything she said.
She started to bring up R stuff and started talking about what may have went wrong and things we both might have done to contribute to the breakdown of the M. We both understood that we both are avoiders and that we did not communicate our issues very well which contributed to things getting brushed under the rug and eventually resurfacing and causing resentment. She started crying a little bit and I told her I was sorry that we couldn't work things out a little better. She told me that if we had communicated better, we wouldn't have ended up where we are now. I agreed and told her that we probably would be in a better place had we known good communication habits.
At the end of the night, on the way home, we were both fairly quiet. Talked a little more about work. Then we got to our house and I went to say goodbye to our cats and afterwards we had a nice hug, I said have a good night, then was on my way back to my moms house. All in all, it was a good meeting. I was prepared had it gone negative but luckily it did not go that way.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Thanks for the encouragement gogofo. Its so hard to think that she seems so firm in her decision to D. I stayed positive when she sort of mentioned D, acting 'as if', so that helped.
I failed to mention earlier, I let her know that whether or not she wanted to stay in the M, that I was asking her to stay. Basically letting her know that the door is still open and was still willing to work on things. She didn't say anything after that. I don't know if it was the right thing to say but I felt I needed to let her know.
Last edited by dil; 10/23/1402:31 PM.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
This past friday, I did a GAL activity and went to a bonfire to meet some new friends. I had to stop by my house where my W is staying to get the cooler and fill it up with ice and booze. I texted her earlier in the day about stopping by and she texted back saying she was going to happy hour and may not be home. When I got to the house, she was already home. Eventually she came to the kitchen to say hi. I was surprised to see her back so early (around 6:30pm) on a friday night after her HH. Typically, when she would go to HH, she would stay til about 8 or 9pm. I was in my 'as if' mood while showing PMA. While cleaning the cooler at the sink, she asked what I was doing. I told her I was going to meet some friends for a bonfire. Also told her a little bit of my mixed drink I was planning to make, which she seemed to be interested in. It was a seemingly short but pleasant conversation, so I left it at that, said have a good rest of the night and left.
Saturday, I was reading tons of stories on this forum to give me a little hope before eventually getting up and going to see a movie and get my mind off of things. After the movie, I texted my W that I needed to stop by and pick up carseats. I was planning on taking my nieces out for a girls day at the Mall. When I got to the house she asked me what I was going to do with the girls tomorrow and I told her I was doing girls day with them and taking them shopping.
Next thing, she told me she wanted to talk to me. A little anxiety came over me and I was feeling very nervous because I was not prepared for what she might say. I quickly picked myself back up and calmly asked what was on her mind. She said that she had been thinking a lot and even though she had wanted a D and didn't know her future with me in the beginning, she came to the decision that she wants to start working on our M! We talked about it and she understood the way she was communicating to me about her needs was not in a way I could understand. I validated and I told her I sincerely appreciate her willingness to try and was happy that she was strong enough to make that kind of decision knowing how much hurt she had gone through in the past. We agreed that we cannot go back to the old marriage. She said she did not know where or how to start. I said I didn't know either and that we will talk about it more as we gather our thoughts about how we can create a new and better relationship and not slip back into bad habits of the old M. She said we need to take it slow. I agreed and suggested we start dating and she replied that she would like that. She mentioned that she tried to set an appointment with an IC in the same place I was going to and we both agreed this would be a good start.
After our talk we were both hungry and went to pick up some fast food, we held hands in the car. Came home, ate, talked/joked like old times and after we finished eating, I was about to say goodnight and leave but she asked if I wanted to stay and watch a movie with her. I told her I would love to and we cuddled and kissed a little bit during the movie. I felt like I had my loving W back. After the movie over, as we hugged, I told her in a soft whisper that I didn't want to leave, but she whispered back and said its probably better if I go. I told her I understand and we gave each other a kiss and a hug goodnite. As I was driving back to my moms, I felt a bit overwhelmed thinking of the things that I need to do make our M better than before. How does one start a M from a clean slate? I had some ideas but, was overwhelmed by things I felt like I needed to do better in all different aspects of the M. I just didn't know where or how to start.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Congrats on the good news dil. Keep up the good work. these are important questions. I suggest discussing with a coach to help you have some high level directions about this. It sounds like she's ready to work with you and that's great. Really happy for you.
Resentment occurs when we aren't doing what we need to care for ourselves, though we expect others to do it for us.
congrats dil!!! it's so nice to hear a good story. now take it SLOW. all the changes you have made keep them up. let her dictate the pace. lead by example with a confident but caring no pressure attitude. you can do it!!
M40 XW35 M11 T15 S9 D5 Bomb 6/3/14 Papers del 10/3/14 D final 12/5/14
I wish I could love you and make you believe it 'Cause that's all you ever wanted From me
Thanks 2stubborn2quit and Bravo! I saw my IC today and told her my news and she told me to think of things that make me feel overwhelmed in regards to piecing the M back, so I can make better decisions on how I need to approach this. Before W told me, I was on my way to LRT and about to start LC because I didn't think she was ever going to change her mind.
W told me though, she needs to fall back in love with me. She also mentioned she still doesn't know if a deep connection can come back with me and in the end, it still might not work out. That I understood, validated and am taking careful steps to make sure I don't blow it, and do things that will help her fall back in love with me again. I'm still working on myself, for ME. So I will continue to do my 180s as I try to think of ways to make this M work and be stronger. She also just scheduled her IC therapist appointment today without me pushing her, which is a great first step for her, and me knowing that she really wants to give our M another chance.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Had a dinner date with W today. It went ok. I feel like I took 2 steps back though.
Backtracking a little, the day after she told me she wanted to work things out, I asked her if she wanted to join me in taking my 2 nieces on their girls day at a park, and afterwards, the mall. She did join us, and she was being really affectionate and letting me hold her hand and letting me wrap my arms around her a few times. After we dropped of the nieces, we went back to our house and she asked if I wanted to stay and snuggle for a bit and I told her I would love to. So we laid on the living room floor with blankets and pillows and snuggled for about 30mins. I had good vibes with her throughout that day. She didn't seem uncomfortable doing those things.
Today we had dinner at a nice Mediterranean restaurant. I picked her up right after work. I stayed positive and, for the most part, happy. She talked to me about work and she said she was a little stressed from things going on at work. I continued to listen to her and validate so that she would feel a bit more at ease on our way to dinner. I let her hold my arms on the way to the restaurant and it felt nice being close to her a little bit. We get in and sit down and it was sort of quiet. I felt really nervous and had a hard time thinking of things to talk about. I eventually made the mistake of bringing it up R talks by asking about physical boundaries, which is why I say I went 2 steps back.
It didn't get heated or anything but I think she might be second-guessing things again. I brought up the idea about the physical boundaries and asked if me hugging, and kissing her was making her uncomfortable. She said it was a little because she still doesn't know if things will work out or not in the end and doesn't want to 'play with my heart'. I felt a little awkward when she said that and told her I understand and will respect that. I then asked her about he EA partner and if it went any further than an EA, she confirmed to me that it did not get to PA and that she was sorry. I told her I forgive her and that the EA was something I would bury in the past.
Then we talked a little about my porn issues and asked her to forgive me for it and keeping it secret for so long. She said she couldn't forgive me right now, but eventually she would. She also said that her forgiving me doesn't mean we will get back together. This changed my mood pretty quick but I tried not to show it. I continued to listen and told her I understand why it will take a while for her to forgive.
So now I feel I'm back at square one. She's made plans to be at her best friends thanksgiving dinner. I told her I was still figuring my plans for it. I'm feeling so confused and down right now. Its hard to think about but I need to continue DB'ing and GAL. This is tough. Maybe being affectionate with her was moving way too fast? She was reciprocating so I don't know what made her change her mind so suddenly about it.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Its been a few days since my last post. Here's an update.
A few days ago a new video game came out. Call of Duty is a game that my wife and I both love and we typically stay up all night playing it the day of release. This caused alot of anxiety mixed with a little bit of anger and borderline jealousy because she had planned to take a day off and play it all night on her own at the house while playing with her brothers/sisters online in another state. All the while I was doing my own thing trying not to think about it. It was a game that I was always into and had gotten her into it because she realized it was a good time to spend with me when we were together. Since the console is at the house, I really couldn't say or do anything and just be content with her, and tell her that I hope she is enjoying the game through text.
The next day, she talked about the game with me and I was actually in a good mood so I listened and was genuinely interested in the conversation. After that she brought up R talks and We talked a little bit on the things about her that caused our relationship to be where it is. Talked about her pessimistic attitude and how impacted my attitudes over time. We talked about how similar I am to her dad and the 'waterproof' attitude we both share. 'Waterproof' meaning that anything negative would fall right off of us. She noticed that over time that waterproof attitude would turn into me taking things more personally. That her negative statements and opinions started affecting me. I started to become negative toward her and would hold resentment over time only to let it fester and boil inside of me causing passive-agressive blowups.
She brought up an interesting point about the similarities of the things we hid from each other. Mine being the porn and hers being the EA she had, which she did tell me she had cut all ties with. The shame and guilt causing us to keep hiding those things from each other until eventually something like us separating would cause us to finally to become totally open and honest with each other. I felt so comfortable opening up about how I kept my secret for so long. The feeling I got from her was mutual. I enjoyed being able to talk with her face to face as we can both see each other in our emotional states of mind. It was a good conversation overall and I think that we are starting to realize that having open and honest communication makes us feel better.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
Went over to the house yesterday for a planned Call of Duty time. We both played the game on splitscreen and I really enjoyed it. I felt more of a friendship vibe from W which is good but I felt a little anxiety mostly thinking about wanting things to progress and see some type affection from her. I then just pushed aside that feeling and thought instead I need to be happy and positive just to be around her. After a few rounds of multiplayer and a little wine, I asked her if she had eaten yet, which she hadn't, so I suggested we go get something to eat at a taco place. On our way there, again, no R talks and kept positive and friendly.
After we got our food and sat, we talked about the game and things we've been up to and I mentioned to her that I was really enjoying my bowling league with my friends every Tuesday. During this conversation, I made the mistake of telling her how I was getting a little friendly attention from a girl on another team on the league. Told her this girl blew me a kiss after the game before she left, and that I felt a little tiny spark of something that I hadn't felt in a long time. I told her it was probably nothing mostly friendly, since I haven't really approached this girl and don't plan on it. W said that it was good, and its nice to get a little attention sometimes from the opposite sex. I agreed, and I felt that maybe she was a little bit bothered by it but tried not to show it.
Its difficult to be next to a person you really love and then get the feeling of sadness because of the lack of affection that was so easy to display before this whole mess. Still trying to stay in the mentality of taking things slow and try to make her fall in love with me again, but its soo hard to do that if she still has her barrier up to one of her most important needs which is affection. It seems like the day after I see her, I get into sort of a crappy mood thinking about things like this. Then after a few days my positive feelings come back and I'm good. Its a vicious cycle.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
I'm a little upset. W just cancelled dinner plans tomorrow night that I had made reservations to over 2 weeks ago to hang out with her BFF. Sometimes I just don't know why I still hang on. I don't want to take it personally but I do and it bothers me.
I've been feeling lately that I don't deserve any of this from her and that I should just let go. Does anybody else feel that way?
I was really looking forward to spending a quality evening with her but I guess my time is just not that important enough for her right now...sad...
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
A little context. W texted me, told me she was sorry and that it was important that she spends time with her BFF, since she doesn't get to very often, and hopes that I understand.
I replied and said "I'm a little upset but I understand, maybe next time..."
I was actually very upset but I know that I can't do much, but brush it off my shoulders and reschedule. I feel like she doesn't take my efforts to spend time with her into much consideration when she plans things for herself. I really value any time that I get to spend with her but I just don't get the same from her...I don't know maybe I'm just trying to read into her too much.
Last edited by dil; 11/07/1410:56 PM.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
So it's been a little more than a month since My last post. Here's an update. we spent thanksgiving at separate places. W went to her BFFs house and I at my moms. I offered for her to stop by if she had time. She said probably not.
I also tried to go NC for 3 weeks only to find out that she was a little upset about me not contacting her. She mentions she hates that I always distance myself and how I wait until the last possible opportunity to do something. Like waiting for her become serious about D to start fighting for her. It's frustrating to hear that because I have been fighting for her this whole time by changing myself and behaviors that got me into this mess and practicing DB to not push her away. The only mistakes I've made the past month was initiating R talks (a couple times) with her which I am not doing anymore. That's kept me at the point I'm at now.
Yesterday I told her I'm moving back into the house. I get to the house and immediately noticed she was upset so I asked her what was wrong. She asked why I'm doing this now when before I couldn't make a decision to come back into the house. I told her because I pay for it too and I want to be home. Then all I heard was constant blaming me for what seemed like random things. I kept my composure and stayed cool while validating her on those things even though I did not agree with some of them. Then, we set boudaries like letting her go and hang out without any expectation of when she will be home. Me staying in the extra bedroom. Some finance stuff, mostly budget. And not expecting to cook and eat with each other.
During this time she was so so cold and being somewhat childish in her responses to me. I mentioned at one point I wanted to talk like civil adults as she was making snide remarks under her breath. It was sort of frustrating but I kept my composure and a calm voice that seemed to diffuse her a little.
She still is gung ho about D, but knowing that doesn't affect me as much as it used to. I told her I still love her the same even through our separation and still don't want divorce. I'm still GAL and pursuing my own hobbies but still find myself thinking about W all the time.
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
I am detaching little by little. A hard thing to do and I find myself always thinking about what I could have done differently to avoid making things worse. I read all these sitches looking for any sort of advice from them that may help me but I understand that everyones is different and that I can't apply some of the same principles and advice thats been given in them. All I can do is read and hope maybe some of your sitches lead to a happy ending. Always hoping mine will but right now, it doesn't seem that way...
Me:31 W:28 No Kids T:14 M:8 BD:09/24/14 Separation 09/25/14
