Depressed WAW, digging in, learning about myself

[Ss06]

Card,

I'm impressed with your progress and PMA.

I understand pulling back a bit to preserve your love. All of this can wear heavily on the heart and make it hardened against staying open. I go back and forth daily on this and I'm using your example to remind me that it's possible and important.

This:

"I was never going to see it until something traumatic happened to force me to see clearly"

really triggered something deep inside of me. I feel exactly the same way and I'm ashamed of it. How do you feel about it? I feel like I should have been less self-centered about my own resentment and pain before BD so I could see HIS pain and HIS resentment and perhaps save this M before it got so diseased.

H has even said, "why did it take my leaving for you to take me seriously?" I can only answer him with "I don't know". Shameful. I hate that about my behavior and actions. The reality is though that I felt he was apathetic and unwilling to make any changes. Little did I know his apathy was actually disdain and silent planning to leave.

How will I ever trust his silence again?

Keep it up, Card. You're rocking this DB thing, slowly and carefully. I'll continue to stay tuned.

[Jefe]

"I was never going to see it until something traumatic happened to force me to see clearly"

really triggered something deep inside of me. I feel exactly the same way and I'm ashamed of it. How do you feel about it? I feel like I should have been less self-centered about my own resentment and pain before BD so I could see HIS pain and HIS resentment and perhaps save this M before it got so diseased.

H has even said, "why did it take my leaving for you to take me seriously?" I can only answer him with "I don't know". Shameful. I hate that about my behavior and actions. The reality is though that I felt he was apathetic and unwilling to make any changes. Little did I know his apathy was actually disdain and silent planning to leave.

How will I ever trust his silence again?

*Tears streaming down my face as I read.*

[sandi2]

What do vets think about this: Is selling our house going to make the "road home" rockier for WAW? Keeping it is a very difficult option. She is really pushing for the sale, followed by split finances. So keeping our sitch the same as it is now is not an option.

I don't think it means you keep everything the same. Certainly, you have to be smart financially. I hope you won't mind, but here is a little copying/pasting from where I gave my own idea to another poster who asked about the same question. I hope you will see the meanings in my little analogy here.

Keeping the road home paved smoothly means not making things more complicated and difficult to work it out. Just for one example, getting involved with another woman could cause more complications in your stitch.

To me, it means that you shouldn't lay traps, set detours, have hidden signs, or place barriers across the road. And of course, don't burn all the bridges. Btw, don't try to hitch a ride with her and offer to drive. smirk

Some men want to lay the asphalt with gold, install bright street lights on each side of the road and have flashing neon arrows pointing over his house, have road rails to keep her from leaving the road, and place barriers across any other road she might take. They want to have a service station every mile to help her with any new issues. They really would like to serve as a traffic cop! And to top it off, they want to buy her a new Cadillac.....with a map inside. They figure it couldn't hurt.

[Wonka]

Hey, Sandi...I wouldn't mind a shiny new Cadillac at all!

[sandi2]

I hear ya. Believe it or not, there has been one here on the board recently who was going to do that very thing.

[Card29]

Thanks for the feedback, Sandi. I've been thinking about it and think keeping the house would make things even rockier than not.

- I would have a housemate I would have to kick out, in due time of course
- OR I would be struggling financially, which would be added baggage to reconciliation
- She probably only has negative memories tied to the house as that is where she was living when our M died (same reason neither of us want the bed)

So my plan remains to live in my mom's guest suite for 3-4 months after house sells, save some money, then move into an apt. And I don't think an apt of my own should be a barrier, either. I wouldn't immediately move in with her, anyway, if she wanted to reconcile. We would need to take it slowly. And we could afford to have two apt leases for a year or less (typical apt contract length).

[Card29]

This:

"I was never going to see it until something traumatic happened to force me to see clearly"

really triggered something deep inside of me. I feel exactly the same way and I'm ashamed of it. How do you feel about it? I feel like I should have been less self-centered about my own resentment and pain before BD so I could see HIS pain and HIS resentment and perhaps save this M before it got so diseased.

I have regret, but it is pointless regret because of what I said (I was never going to see it until something serious happened). I hate that I was not more introspective and didn't seek any professional relationship advice, even early on when things were good. I also wish she had just threatened D instead of actually going down this road out of the clear blue sky, but that is also cemented in history.

How will I ever trust his silence again?

This is looking way down the road, but I would not let there be silence again. One of the pillars of a successful marriage, it seems from everything I've read, HAS to be regular, abundant, intimate conversation. We used to talk every night in bed for an hour, with the lights out, nothing else going on. We stopped years ago, and I even developed a habit of sleeping on the couch most nights. Yep. I would love for something like that to start up again. I also saw one of the reconciled vets on here who now takes part of EVERY Sunday and asks the same intimate questions to the other person, and they answer honestly (both S's so this). I'm guessing they are questions custom for their M, but I imagine they should address how fulfilled they are, how their emotional needs are being met, what their dreams for the future are, etc. If a couple regularly has honest conversations like that, I don't think it's possible to simultaneously have plotting silences (or at least it's much less likely).

More generally, don't worry about the future through the lens of your OLD marriage. If you reconcile and do so through DB and other marriage building principles, your old marriage will be dead and replaced with a brand new one. So don't expect to have perpetual, disconcerting silence in your M ever again, whether it's with this H or someone else.

[CMS]

Thanks for the feedback, Sandi. I've been thinking about it and think keeping the house would make things even rockier than not.

- I would have a housemate I would have to kick out, in due time of course
- OR I would be struggling financially, which would be added baggage to reconciliation
- She probably only has negative memories tied to the house as that is where she was living when our M died (same reason neither of us want the bed)

So my plan remains to live in my mom's guest suite for 3-4 months after house sells, save some money, then move into an apt. And I don't think an apt of my own should be a barrier, either. I wouldn't immediately move in with her, anyway, if she wanted to reconcile. We would need to take it slowly. And we could afford to have two apt leases for a year or less (typical apt contract length).

I know where your at with this. I am looking at it the same way. letting go of house here in Florida and moving into a small 2 bedroom up north by her and the kids. Even if there is a change of heart with my wife their is still a road ahead before jumping right back in where we left off.

[Card29]

Update:

I had a long, interesting text convo with WAW tonight. First long convo in 2 or 3 weeks. I would greatly appreciate some vet breakdowns. At first it was lots of light, fun talk about cute little D2. Eventually, this happened:

WAW: Can I ask an awkward question?
Me: Sure
WAW: Are you dating?
Me: Of course not
WAW: I'm guessing we would have talked about it. I didn't know if we skipped a conversation somewhere.
Me: lol "oh forgot to mention this"
WAW: Well I mean it's our situation
Me: I mean if I was dating someone, who knows if I'd want you to know. But I don't want to even think about anyone else right now.
WAW: I just wanted to know where we stood with that
Me: I'm not salsa dancing to meet people, if that's what you're thinking
WAW: I have no idea. I wasn't upset about it.
Me: I figured you were just curious
WAW: I just didn't know if we had decided. I thought you were
Me: Really?
WAW: Yeah
Me: Why?
WAW: I don't know, you're going "out" and stuff. Which is great. I just thought maybe you had been at least going on dates
Me: No. Furthest thing from my mind (I was tempted to spill my guts about my GAL activities but resisted)
WAW: Okay, sorry if that's awkward
Me: No it's not.
Me: There's lots I wish I could tell you but don't want to / can't until hopefully a day that you're ready (This was TMI, I think...I was hinting at things I've learned through this process)
WAW: Ok
WAW: For the record, if someone asks you, you should go. At least to have fun and learn more about yourself if nothing else.
Me: I've learned more about myself the last 4 months than the previous 29 years
WAW: Agreed
WAW: This probably isn't the time or medium to discuss it
Me: I know, I wasn't going to tell you anything. That's what I meant earlier
WAW: And no one has asked me, at least not like for a date
Me: Okay
Me: They're all stupid, then (Too flirty? I thought it was just right and natural. Anyone think it sounds like it's validating her going on a date? She has to know how I feel about her with anyone else [not for it at all], so I can't imagine she got that impression. But would appreciate feedback)

The convo then went to lighter material and was fun. I was the one to end the dialogue while sneaking in a 180 tidbit ("It's been great talking to you but i need to run to Lowes. I've painted almost the entire dining room and now I'm out of paint" -- From 180 list: Initiative!)

I am battling trying not to mind read this. Some of it sounds like she was trying to open the door for her to start dating. Some of it sounds like she would like to see me start dating so that it will make it easier to "move on" as I will have started "moving on". I can spin it positive ways, too. Really, who knows. What I'm more interested in from people on this board is a grade of my DB skills in this convo. I just want to learn from any mistakes you see so I don't make them in the future. I know I've already learned some. I was tempted to ask her if she was dating (before she told me she wasn't). I was also tempted to ask her if she was wanting to be open for dating. I asked neither. This is a huge turn from the text convo I had with her a month ago or so about a guy who directly showed interest in her after they talked for a while at a party.

[bravo61]

Card,
isn't it interesting how all the WAS complain about how we (LBS) would never communicate well but they keep their plans to leave us all bottled up? i know that's what my W did. turns out while she was sending me racy texts and pic (while i was living out of state) she was planning on leaving me. i asked her bout them and she said she was buying time.

in reference to your convo, it certainly seems as if she was fishing/trying to test you. i thought you handled yourself decently with the exception of the last comment. seemed a little like giving her justification if she's asked-but just my opinion. don't spin it in any way, accept it on its face. until she says i want you back she prolly doesn't. and even if she says that you can't really believe that-but you know that already. its easier to hand out the advice when its not your sitch so take everything i say worth a grain of salt.

just wanted to let you know you have my support and prayers.