Claire-- Is DB Worth it? Part 8

[claire7]

Lots to think about, especially re finances. If I am going to face reality, I need to start thinking ahead. We haven't set a budget. Nothing really has changed for me financially. Part of that is wishful thinking, and I do still trust him to not intentionally hurt me.

But I already had one BD. If this is going to happen-- if I'm going to be on my own-- I need to have a plan.

I do have my own account. My paycheck goes into a joint account at that bank that he doesn't really touch. He seems to have his own account too, at a different bank where his paycheck goes into another joint account. Most of our bills are paid from that joint account. Like I said, even with generous spousal support for 2-3 years and CS, im probably better off at the moment.

I am holding on because i still want this marriage to work for many many reasons. I have to do some major soul searching i guess.

And, Maybell, you are totally right that I have to be willing to save myself, regardless of what happens in my M. I am well on the path to that. I can recognize the many blessings in my life and hold my head high with the strength and grace I have shown in the past year. I see my own value and approach problems with thoughtfulness and hope, not panic and dread.

I still have plenty of work to do, but I am on the right path and my progress can never be taken away.

And now... off to bed as a gift to myself. :-)

[labug]

Just to clarify-- I have access to joint accounts, but I do not have access to his individual accounts which may or may not have co-mingled $$. I don't know.

And I definitely don't know how he's managing his brokerage accounts which are legally partly mine since he comingled the $$.

We haven't really discussed finances since BD-- all expenses have stayed status quo. In fact, he pays my cable/home phone bill-- I don't have access to that account! I will ask about that one.

He makes way more than me so financially it is probably in my best interest to keep things as is. He is paying most of the bills. I think he'd jump at the chance to move forward with separation if I drove it. But I suspect (mind reading) that he a) feels overwhelmed at work;; b) guilty and c) still a bit ambivalent -- afraid to move forward but afraid to move towards me.

But now that nearly a year has passed, you're right-- I have to face some realities. There have been some significant (small, but significant) positives lately...but is that enough? Dunno.

25years, wonka, labug--what do you think?

I'm not going to give you answers about the money stuff, I'm thinking that's a smokescreen for "I want to know WTH is going on and when will this be over."

I'm going to give you the answer that, although it p!ssed me off when I continued to read it, it is the only answer.

This is over when you say it's over.

And by your asking the question here, I would guess that you're not done yet.

Focus on the good in your life and keep making it better. Do things that make you happy.

((( )))

[claire7]

So Chuck says to stay hopeful. I guess if I can do that, either in a "no expectations" sort of way, or in a "I'll deal with disappointment if I need to" way, I can handle that. I don't want to say, "I can't go through that pain again." Because I'm stronger than that. Life is sure to throw more pain at me somehow. And haven't I learned how strong I really am?

BUT-- I've been considering seriously whether he has a bit of narcissistic personality. ...

Two MC noted his lack of empathy. He has a major problem accepting any type of criticism or blame, and does not apologize well, even when he is so clearly in the wrong.

For ex: when I was 6 months pg, we went to a friend's wedding out of state. Despite the fact that everyone admired how I was being very social-- dancing, etc late at night-- he got very drunk, ignored me by the end of the evening, sat next to a female (single) friend on the bus ride back, and went to the after party w/o me.

Ok. Maybe not soooo terrible (?)

Then, came back to hotel-- I was sleeping. He snores very loudly when he is drunk. I couldn't sleep at all. I sat on the floor of the bathroom crying, I was so desperate to sleep, and considered going to get my own room in the middle of the night.

The next day, rather than acting contrite at all, he was actually mad at me for being grumpy and annoyed with him.

This was a major pattern for us. I started to think I was really crazy, questioning whether I was being manipulated (was I out of line for expecting an apology and some nurturing the next day? He seemed to think so.)

But now I'm seeing it so differently. In a healthy R, a loving H would acknowledge what had happened, and act contrite (honey-- what can i get you to help you feel better? Do you want to lay down and I'll bring you back some lunch? I'm sorry you had such a rough night. How about next weekend you get a massage?"

Something like that.

But there's something wrong with a man who would make his pg wife feel like she had done something wrong in that situation!

I have a bunch of stories like that. They are embarrassing to share because I feel ashamed that I would stay with a man who treated me like that.

Even the way BD happened--

"I'm just not happy" (and not willing to do any work to improve things with you).

"I do so much to try to make you happy and I don't feel loved by you" (never considering the ways he made me feel unloved, or accepting those things when I TOLD him what they were),

"It took me a lot of courage to leave" (do you want a medal for that?)

To be fair, I can take responsibility for acting the victim, too. The new Claire wouldn't just pout, she would a) have gotten herself a new room and left a note; b) told her H what she needed without caring whether he was annoyed; c) booked the massage all by her big girl self. So, I contributed my own dysfunction.

From what I've read, narcissists are not easily changed. Maybe I cut my losses and seek out someone who is capable of healthier relationships. It's scary to put this out there, because I feel like admitting these feelings and anecdotes

Lots to think about these days.

I think I'm handing it over to the universe. I will not let the possibility of R prevent me from doing anything, including meeting new people. His road home is smooth, but long. Maybe my next goal is to start getting ready to meet someone new.

[bravo61]

Not gonna defend him but you tell him that those situations hurt you emotionally? The reason I ask is because my W would be hurt at the things I said but hold them in. Or she would scream them at me and my defensiveness would rear its ugly head. In my sitch I've realized we were both in the wrong. Patience and timing is the key I'm learning apparently too late. Praying for you!

[claire7]

Bravo--
Fair point. It was a while ago, now, so I can't say for sure. I'm sure I *thought* I did at the time, but our communication skills were awful. I certainly would communicate (and do communicate) differently with him now.

Trying to stay hopeful... but the more I think about it (and see myself through other people's situations), I'm just not sure it can work. I just don't think he is capable of ever giving me what I need. I don't know if our R was ever really healthy (I was never really healthy), so I don't know if there is enough to rebuild.

Well, that sure doesn't sound hopeful!

[Upwards]

Claire your on a journey, a very painful & difficult journey but I promise you beyond all doubt that what lies at the other end of this tunnel is beautiful and I know you have the strength to keep working on yourself & ploughing through - i don't know if your M will survive but I sure as hell know you will thrive regardless if the outcome you can do this!!

p.s. Sorry it's been so long!

[labug]

Well, that sure doesn't sound hopeful!

Depends on your perspective.

[claire7]

Labug... i get it.

for the last year I've been grieving the fact that my H gave up on me.

Now... if I turn it around, I have to grieve in a different way. That I'm giving up, that I don't want him. (And, to be clear,I dont want him now, but I mean in the abstract "I don't ever want him again") Acknowledging that he was right-- that the R has no hope-- is something I haven't allowed myself to do. And its like everyone in the world-- his family and friends, my family and friends-- have acknowledged and accepted that this is done.. everyone except me. Some days I feel like such a deluded fool. I mean, even if it ever came to that, could I really go back into his extended family-- the family that has essentially pretended I don't exist for the last year? Where the only ones to reach out a kind word were his mom and SIL? Like, not even a "I'm so sorry this happened, and I hope you are doing ok".

Or his friends' wives who were there for me at the beginning but have mostly (except for one couple) gone up in smoke, and whom I have not seen in months.

There's a lot of people I'd have to forgive and forget aside from my H. I dont know if I can do that.

But man, my head is taking me to some crazy places tonight. Time to go out for a drink with a friend...

[1foot2]

Boy do I empathize with your situation Claire. I have the same feelings, where I question if my W ever truly cared about my needs. So many situations like you described, where I automatically assumed that my feelings made me the bad guy, and that I had to accommodate how my W reacted as if it was justified. Our communication was bad, just as you describe, and I can own my role in that. It's hard not to see the WAS as just taking a my way or the highway approach. My BD was the same, with W simply explaining to me how our R was terminal, and making me out to be the "stubborn" one who was "denying her feelings" when I tried to point out that we had never put effort into changing our R dynamic.

And I feel the same way about her family. They no longer reach out to me. Her MILs demeanor with me is as if nothing whatsoever is going on. It's bizarre!

As long as you've changed, you've won. Your next R will be so much the better, whether it's with H or someone else.

[labug]

his family and friends, my family and friends-- have acknowledged and accepted that this is done.. everyone except me. Some days I feel like such a deluded fool. I mean, even if it ever came to that, could I really go back into his extended family-- the family that has essentially pretended I don't exist for the last year? Where the only ones to reach out a kind word were his mom and SIL? Like, not even a "I'm so sorry this happened, and I hope you are doing ok".

You've made it through a lot and then comes this awakening. It is actually a good thing cause now Claire can get on with Claire.

You're not a deluded fool, no one else you mentioned has as great an emotional stake in your life. Would you tell someone who suffered the death of a close relative that they were a deluded fool for grieving? Be kind to yourself.

About the family, I had the same thoughts as I had the similar reactions from H's family. H and I were just talking about this yesterday because his sister from OOT stayed with us last week while MIL was in the hospital. I had to work through some of my feelings while she was here and I was telling H about it, even shed a tear or 2. The key is, you won't be stepping back into the same R, it'll be a different R and one in which you can define the parameters. It actually takes a lot of pressure off, or at least it did for me.

You're doing fine Claire, we just have to accept that at times life is painful but in accepting and naming it what we're feeling we limit it's power over us.