Wife Still in MLC but has now left #5

[Matt165]

Thanks mLeigh,
I learned something when my D19 started her teen years. Whenever a teenager wants to talk to you about ANYTHING, no matter what you're doing, you need to stop and give them your attention. If you put them off or try and say "I'm busy, can we talk later?" they will never be ready when you are. It's just how they are at that age. It won't always be that way, as they get older they will change but until then you just have to realize that the times that they actually want your help won't come often so you have to always be ready. Do that long enough and they will see that you really do care, that they are important to you and will trust you and come to you more often. When you stop to think about it, what is more important than they are in the end? In a short time they will be adults and out on their own and you'll miss having them around wanting your time and attention!

[mleigh4]

Good advise Matt.

I do believe we should be open and available to listen and be there anytime our children need. My little guy is only 7, but I always listen when he wants to talk to me and he knows he can always count on me. I can't imagine doing any different. In a conversation with H the other day, I let him know that S should be a bigger priority on his list. He responded by saying that it isn't realistic to always be available anytime S wants, that we are busy and entitled to our own adult time and that by me doing so is coddling him. He is 7! I don't know, I just don't agree with that to the extent that H takes it. Not sure if that is H MLC talking, or if he really believes that. If that is how H was raised, it's no wonder S and I are going through this right now!

[Matt165]

Wow, listening to your 7 year old is "coddling" them? Really?

You know, it may just be the MLC. When my W went into her MLC, she seemed to always put off our D's when they wanted her. She was always "too busy" or "too tired". I actually thought it was more about her depression than MLC but when I look back, she just was so busy doing for herself and just didn't want to be bothered. A 7 year old will be in bed early enough that you should be able to have plenty of "adult time". It may be that your H was raised this way and it could very well be one reason for his MLC. He never was "heard" and felt that he wasn't "important" enough. I'm not one of those crazy "helicopter" parents by any means. Kids need to take responsibility for their actions and be allowed to "fail" at times. Constantly "protecting" them IS coddling. But to be available to listen to them when they need you isn't anything but what a parent should do.

Don't let you H's MLC fogged ideas make you question yourself when it comes to your S. Sounds to me like you are being a really good parent!

[Wonka]

Matt,

I think you're beginning to realize that you are the "stable" parent for your D14 and D19 as well. Keep up with the good father-daughter connection. It's a nice awakening for you, isn't it?

Boys!!! Oh boy. My late father worried about boys around me. Then I told him I liked girls...talk about switching gears! LOL!

Hey T,

The last thing I want is for them to have their own MLC, and declare "I feel like a child/You treat me like a child" to their partner.

I'm pretty sure that the thought of MLC never crossed my parents minds...or that I'd get MLC...just sayin'.

[Mighty]

Hey Matt. Just catching up and it seems like you are doing really well. I see you making big steps and I am happy for you. I would be worried about the "unsupervised" time with your d, too. Just keep a watchful eye on that sitch.

But it sound like things are going well. So nice to see the r you two have. Enjoy it!

[Matt165]

Ok, had an interesting 'encounter" with W this morning. Under less than ideal circumstances....

My D14 stayed at her mom's last night so she could go to "Cody"s" football game. She was running late yesterday morning so we couldn't take her dog with her and since she is going to stay at mom's again tonight because she has a dance recital tomorrow, asked if I would drop the dog off this AM. I pass the place on my way to work so I said that i would just drop her. Well, I get there and D14 isn't home. No one is home. Turns out that D14 had to be at school early this morning and her mom took her. I had to text her mom and she offered to come and let me in. Of course she made sure to let me know what a "pain" it was and how it's puts her out etc.

So, I wait and she shows up and isn't in a good mood. In fact she was in a very weird mood. I have seen her like this before, she is in one of her "anxiety" periods. She was talking a mile a min and moving around doing all kinds of things as she spoke to me. She was upset that I even considered bringing the dog to her place since D14 was going to come back to my place Saturday. When I told her D14 really wanted her dog with her and I was going by anyway she said "Yes, but she needs to learn she can't get whatever she wants. She needs to learn that she has to ask if BOTH parents are OK with having her dog here. I hate when she has that dog here, she sheds terribly and she peed in my bedroom 2 times last week!". OK, so I went into DB mode and validated her feelings and said that in the future I'll make sure to check if it's OK with her before I bring the dog. She then added that it wasn't fair to me and I shouldn't have to worry about stopping and dropping the dog off. OK, it is 5 min's out of my way and I really don't mind as D14 is alone every evening and having her dog makes her feel better but I just didn't say anything.

Then W starts in on how D14 is Skyping with the new boyfriend last night and she heard him say "I love you" to her. Now this is bad. They hardly know each other really and I didn't know he was being that way yet. W then tells me a story about when she was in 10th grade and some boy she was dating kept trying to get her to say she loved him and when she wouldn't he got angry. Later she heard that he was angry at another girl who did say it because she wouldn't have sex with him and she would if she loved him. I told W that I don't think D14 is going to fall for that but I would talk to her about it for sure. W seemed happy that I was willing to talk with D14. I asked about the dance thing and wanted to check to make sure what time I had to pick her up and W checked and showed me the paperwork so we got the right times. She said she was probably going to go and check it out so she may be there. Actually I was happy that she was going to go. I told her that our older D19 and her boyfriend were planning on coming down to go with D14 and I to a Pet Fest in our town after.

This started her up on a new topic. She said she has been trying to tell D19 that she should stop living with her boyfriend and come live with her and get a job there as there are lots of places for her to work around her house and that she won't ever save any money living with her BF. Not only that, she keeps asking W for gas money when she comes down to visit and "I'm stretched thin as it is and I can't afford it". She added that if she did that she could save for a car and after that she could live with me as it's closer to the college she wants to go to. She also said she can't afford to help her with college, went on and on about how she would charge her rent and save it and give it back to her when she moved out...like I said, W was talking a mile a min. and was VERY hyper! What she doesn't seem to understand is that D19 doesn't want to live with her mother. Her mom decided to turn one bedroom into an "office" and D14 and D19 would have to stay in the same room. Not only that she is angry at her mom and says she "can't count on her" and would never live with her. Not only that, W makes A LOT of money. Almost $90,000 a year and she is "stretched thin"? I made much less than that with 2 girls in private school, house payment and 2 car payments and we did fine. As for me, I just validated, smiled and said things like D19 really needs to make a better plan, etc. I did say that I am proud of D19 as since W left and she moved in with BF, she has been working very hard and being very responsible. To that my W just gave me a sour look and said that that was true but.... When W asked if I was getting asked for gas money when she visits I told her that I've been meeting them half way and I really don't have the money anyway. W asked about my still not having glasses and said "That was bad timing" since they broke when I was broke. I told her that I hope to have money soon and that I'm looking for a new job at the same time.

I told her that I really had to go and thanked her for coming to let in the dog and apol. for having my signals crossed with D14. She said it wasn't my fault and left it at that.

OK, what do I take from this? Seems like W is probably off her meds as this is how she gets whenever she stops taking them. Not my sand box, she doesn't want to take her meds that's her thing. I am bothered by the way she is about D14. Here is a 14 year old who has been through a lot of bad crap in the last year and is trying hard to make the best of her sitch. She earned having her own dog when she was just 10 years old and takes very good care of her. Is it really that bad having another dog there? W took one of our dogs with her and he gets lonely without D14's dog around and one more dog isn't that big a deal. It seems to me more about control than the dog. I really don't think W understands one bit all that both our girls are going through because of our M ending. She doesn't seem to get that it hurts them and they are trying to deal the best way they know how with a bad sitch! Is she really that blinded by her MLC? I guess the answer is yes. It really is sad to me that she is so wrapped up in herself and just can't seem to find any empathy for her girls. I really don't think she wants D14 to stay with her most of the time like D14 talked to me about. To me it seemed almost like she really was rather put off because D14 asked to stay with her during my week. (I got this from what she said when I called. She seemed upset that the reason D14 wanted to stay was because she had to be at school early but now she thinks it was because she wanted to go to football game to see BF). She is still losing weight and is rail thin not to mention (again) the hyper way she was behaving. I forgot to mention that when she talked about D19 living with her, she said "I would hate having her live here as she is always leaving messes everywhere...", she was just all over the place.

Not sure what to make of all this. I am glad W didn't want to talk about the d or money like she normally does. But I am a bit taken a back by the way she is behaving. I know there is nothing I can do about any of it. This is her life now and she has made it clear that she doesn't want me to be a part of it. She does still want me to be proactive with the girls but what she probably wouldn't like is that I disagree with some of the ways she wants to deal with them. Look, even when D14 has been staying with her, I've been able to take her places when W couldn't (or wouldn't), I've tried hard to be a stable force in her life and she needs it. It almost seems like D14 is a "bother" to her. Oh, well. That's between them. All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted. I will do what I think is best and all I can do is let my W deal how she wants.

[TSquared2]

What part of all that can/should you control?

All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted. I will do what I think is best and all I can do is let my W deal how she wants.

^^^^

[ericmsant2]

Matt

All I can do is keep being there for my D's, both of them

^^^ Yep.

I have a few other observations….

Yes, but she needs to learn she can't get whatever she wants. She needs to learn that she has to ask if BOTH parents are OK with having her dog here.

IMO, your ex has a point. Set aside, the crappiness of the divorce for a second. Continuing to do this for you D; although on some level I understand it, is teaching your D what? Also, consider that although it is not big deal to YOU since you have to drive by, it was a big deal to your ex. Right now, IMO, you are still recovering from the crappy chit your ex did – so the lens with which you view her…still has some anger. I have more comments on your description of how the girls feel…further below.

She then added that it wasn't fair to me and I shouldn't have to worry about stopping and dropping the dog off. OK, it is 5 min's out of my way and I really don't mind as D14 is alone every evening and having her dog makes her feel better but I just didn't say anything.

Good for you for not responding. Once again, IMO, your ex has a point. Now as for your daughter spending evening alone – that is YOUR daughters choice. She has the opportunity to live with YOU – she choose not to. As I have mentioned before, I am still learning how to allow my own kids to learn from their own choices. It is not easy. Look at it through a different lens – Your D want’s to be near her BF. That is your D’s choice. Not yours and not her mothers.

Then W starts in on how D14 is Skyping with the new boyfriend last night and she heard him say "I love you" to her. Now this is bad. They hardly know each other really and I didn't know he was being that way yet.

Definitely something you should talk to your D about. This is a perfect sitch for you to show YOUR daughter what a kick arse parent you are. Just remember, that your daughter will still choose to listen or not to what you say. You are though…planting seeds…that God willing will blossom in the future. Now before you write that YOUR ex should do something as well….lemme ask you…who does Matt control? Matt? Matt’s ex? Matt’s daughter? Keep that in mind.

What she doesn't seem to understand is that D19 doesn't want to live with her mother. Her mom decided to turn one bedroom into an "office" and D14 and D19 would have to stay in the same room. Not only that she is angry at her mom and says she "can't count on her" and would never live with her.

Not your problem and D19 could also live with you if she wanted to. The office into a bed room….although I agree with you….is not anything that you can do or say anything about. I am glad you kept quiet. Matt, one of these days…you are gonna get tired of having these convo’s with your ex. You’ll know you are getting close to being done…when the fact that her mom made a bedroom into an office – does not even effect you. You’d give it no one millisec of space in your head.

I am bothered by the way she is about D14.

I understand a lot of your concern. I do believe though that you are projecting how YOU feel on to your kids. It is understandable – your still hurt and still healing.

Here is a 14 year old who has been through a lot of bad crap in the last year and is trying hard to make the best of her sitch. She earned having her own dog when she was just 10 years old and takes very good care of her. Is it really that bad having another dog there?

When you frame it this way….”is it really that bad…..”, you are missing the fact that your ex and YOU both have boundaries that your D will need to adhere to. If you continue to express to your d that you understand (implying subtly that her mom is blowing this out of proportion)…then you teach your daughter to not respect boundaries. This may work for you now….but in the long run….how does it help your d?

I really don't think W understands one bit all that both our girls are going through because of our M ending.

Yes the girls maybe going through some chit. They have YOU though man! You to be the rock for them. Part of me, seems a little of your projecting here…. Consider this…if the girls were that upset/hurt with mom….they would probably live with you. Be careful here Matt. I feel for this type of thinking……it creates the exact sitch that you want to avoid, which is the girls playing you both against each other.

both of them and at least when with me they can have a stable parent who at least can understand what they are going through is a big stinking pile that neither one of them wanted.

They may not have wanted it…..and neither did you… YOU have to lead them through it…you need to show them how to deal with life – while not…projecting your anger and feelings towards your wife. It isn’t easy Matt and you are really doing very well. It is a process bro….a process.

OK, what do I take from this?

IMO….you take the following….

1 – ex w continues to be batchit crazy – so I need to detach more.
2 – I still focus too much on exw – I need to detach more.
3 – I need to realize that exw and I will parent very differently.
4- I need to allow my kids to figure out exw on their own and in their own time.
5 – I may be, without realizing, creating a dynamic that I do not want in the future.

God Bless,

[Matt165]

That was fast T2!
I agree completely. None of it is at all under my control nor can it be. I was just so taken aback by the way she was acting and wanted to get it out while it was fresh in my mind. I guess if I can take anything away from it, it's that I really see more than ever how important it is that I keep being there as much as possible for both my girls. My W is becoming less and less the person she used to be before her MLC. I would say it's sad except for the fact that this is who she wants to be. It's her life and she can choose to be whoever she pleases. Whether I like this person more or less than who she used to be is irrelevant. If she really and truly thinks that she is happier living the way she is now that's her choice. All I can do is live my life the way I want and leave the rest up to God.

[Matt165]

Umm Eric, I guess first I would say "See reply to T2",
second, when W first left, D14 wanted to stay with me and not her mother. At the time she was told by both my W and me that she has no choice, that for now she has to split her time. What you need to keep in mind is this...D14 isn't choosing to live with her mom, not really. She is choosing exactly what any kid her age would choose...to be closer to her friends and with the parent that leaves them alone and isn't around to "get in the way". I completely understand this and I would have done the same thing at her age. I mean it's teen heaven to only have to see her mom for at most an hour a day! Especially when she knows that if her mom isn't around to do something for her, I have been taking up that slack. It really doesn't bother me that D14 would want this as to her she is invincible and nothing "bad" will ever happen whether there is a parent around or not. This is just typical teenager thinking.

The thing about the dog being at W's... what you don't know is this is a 180 on my W's part. The reason I found it so odd is because my W was adamant that wherever D14 was staying, the dog would go with her. There were a couple times when i kept the dog an extra night and w was upset about it. To suddenly say that I need to get her say so for something that was a given just a couple weeks ago is the weird thing here.

Wasn't going to say anything about my W needing to do something about the Skyping thing. I'm actually glad W even knew and brought it up with me. This was a positive really. Nothing at all "bad" to say about my W's response there.

Haven't said a word about the whole dog sitch to my D14. She was in school this morning when it happened so haven't even had a chance to yet. Definitely won't imply that her mom is "blowing it out of proportion". It's just a total change in W's attitude. In fact I wouldn't mind having the dog with me all the time if my D14 wouldn't mind. I live out in the country and she has lots of room. Of course, she does eat, A LOT.... If my W wants to have a "both of us have to buy in" attitude about the dog, that's fine with me. If this is a boundary for my W than man, it's a brand new one.

With my D19 I have had to actually pull her back with how angry she has become with her mom. There is no way that she would live with her mother and she has made that very clear. I know exactly why she doesn't live with me right now. She is trying to go on with her life. If she lived with me she would NEED a car, the closest business, a gas station, is 8 miles away and there are no buses or trans. that she can take and she knows i can't afford to help her get one right now. At one point I told her that I was thinking about selling the house and moving closer to her sister and she freaked out. She wants to know that if anything were to happen she still has a place in the home she grew up in and she does.

Like I said to T2, my W has every right to be whomever she wants, to set whatever boundries she likes with D14, have whatever attitude she likes about any part of her life. I don't have to like it but I also can't and won't even try and change it. All I can control is myself. I have been very careful about my reactions to my W when around my D's. It's up to them to decide how they feel about anything that goes on between them and her.

Everything you say is spot on, Eric. I don't disagree with any of it. I also want you to know that I do get it and have been very careful especially about showing any anger towards their mother or saying anything is "bad" or expressing that I think what she is doing is "wrong". I let them make that decision on their own.

Hope that helps!