Thanks Eric! Drew, Thanks for the input. He actually said "Hopefully we can get this info without asking for an official "Discovery" from the court". He said that if we did it that way it would cost more and he feels that my W's lawyer will actually be helpful to our case if he can see the numbers from us and my W doesn't dispute them. I think he is trying to stay on good terms with her L and trying to show that we are actually being reasonable. I really think he was surprised that her L had no idea about the antiques or the student loans and lawsuit. He has told me many times that her L is very good and is reasonable and he believes that if we can get her own L to tell her that what we are asking for is reasonable she will be more inclined to listen to him. But, in the end, if I just can't get the info, we do have the ability to make her produce the info.
Ugh!!!! I really, really hate my soon to be ex wife!!!!! So, today I pick my D up from school and she says she needs to "talk" to me about 2 things when we get home. OK, I have an idea since she's 14 and now in a larger school and I've been through 14 year old D stuff before. I'm thinking that she met a boy. Low and behold, I was right. His name is Cody and he is a grade under her (8th) but he is the same age. They met at the "fair" that she went to last week. He is a football player and is "tall'. Of course I teased her a bit but nothing I didn't expect.
The next thing is where the problem comes in....seems my D wants to live "mostly" with her mom. She said "Dad, you're my favorite parent, it's just that my school and all my friends live around there". I ask what she had in mind and she says "Well, I could spend weekends with you during the school year, I know lots of people who do that". I say that I never liked the 7days/7 days thing as I understand that it's hard, but that was the best we could come up with. I also told her that to be honest, I really don't like the fact that her mother leaves her alone almost every night until 9:00 or later. She said 'I'm a teenager dad, I LIKE not having anyone around". Of course you don't, but it's not what's best for you! I told her that it is easy to get into trouble not on purpose, but things can happen, especially if you have a boyfriend! She, of course defended herself saying she is a good kid (true) and she won't let anything happen. Of course she thinks that, she's 14! I told her that I would have to talk to her mother and Get this, she said "Mom said it was up to you!"!!! Oh, thanks a lot, W. Way to drop me under the bus!
This wouldn't be happening if my W didn't move 30 miles away. If she hadn't refused to send her to the school that she wanted to go to but my W didn't want to be bothered picking her up and taking her to! I should have fought her and stopped her from putting my D in a school so close to her! I hate my W! She destroys her family because she has no coping skills and is a selfish jerk in MLC and now I'm going to lose my D14!! I hate her, I hate her, I hate her! My D19 moved because my W "had" to move away and now this!
I told my D14 that I would try to think of something different. That if I have to I'll sell my house and move to where her mother lives. Gee, another win for the selfish ass that my W has decided she wants to be! My D14 said "I can spend Thanksgiving week and X-mass with you". I tell her no, according to the D decree her mom gets her Thanksgiving this year. My D says "Really? She told me she was going to go spend it with her father". OK, so more proof that she doesn't even bother reading the stuff her lawyer sends to my lawyer! It stated that I get X-mass but she gets Thanksgiving this year. She has no idea because her D14 means NOTHING to her. Why does she even want her if she spends zero time with her?
Why is it that she gets to destroy her family and still get what she wants? My lawyer tells me unless my D says she wants to live with me (which she said she would if I lived as close to her school and friends as her mom does) that there is no way I can get custody. It just won't happen. Even if I can prove that her mom leaves her alone all the time, the court just won't care. Because my 14 year old D "likes" being alone where there is a good chance of trouble happening she will never say she wants to live with me! I hate this.
I really want to call my W and tell her off but of course that won't have any effect. She just doesn't get what damage she has done and is still doing! All of you out there that are upset because your S's don't want to see or have anything to do with their kids, think again! You're lucky! So far, my D14 has had to have ME take her to places to be with her friends as her mom has always been busy and she knows I'l drop what I'm doing and take her. Maybe it's a mistake doing that. I thought it was the right thing to be there for her when she needs me but she doesn't get what living full time with her mom is really going to be like. How will she get the places that she wants to go with her friends? Her mom won't take her, she'll just say what she does now .... "Ask your father"!
I don't need this crap right now! My W s@cks! and doesn't deserve to be a mother to her own kids! She stopped being anything close to a mother a long time ago and now she gets to take my D14 from me except weekends? No F'g way! Ugh!
Anyone have any ideas about how I can fix this without losing the little time I have with my D14 who needs a stable parent in her life more than she ever has before!!
I wish I knew what to say or had some kind of meaningful suggestion that would help you through this. I don't.
If D14 moves in with her mom, would your W actually take her to school or would your D14 need to make arrangements with friends to get her to and from school?
Your W seems very hands off as a parent but I'm not sure that means she doesn't love her daughter. She does seem rather self-involved though.
My concern, which I think echoes your concern, is that D14 being left alone so much will mean her friends and friendships are not being monitored. Alone in a house until 9 pm every night, even for "good kids", is often an opportunity to hang with buddies/boyfriends sans supervision. That would be my biggest concern though, since D is 14, I'm not sure there's much you can do.
I hope someone who has more experience can weigh in.
My thoughts exactly Ss, D14 is a good kid, that's a given. She is sweet and loving and kind but she is also very naive. She has always been in small religious based private school. Her sister got in trouble when she went to just a larger private school. I don't think she is ready to be left alone like she is when with her mother. I re-read my last post and it's angrier than I hoped. I wrote it right after talking to my D14. I don't think my W doesn't love her D's. I just think she is too self involved to be a parent right now. Since she went into her MLC she hasn't been a very good mother at all. For the last year before she left the only talks she had with D14 were her yelling at her over something stupid. When either of our D's wanted to talk to my W, she, 99% percent of the time, would say she was too tired or too busy. She stopped making meals, she didn't do anything with them, she put them last on her list. As far as I can tell nothing much has changed since she left.
This is partly my fault for letting my W have her way and put D14 into a school near her when she moved so far away! I should have fought her, I should have told her it was her choice to move so far, my D isn't going with her. I just wish I could trust my W just a little but I just can't. She has proven over and over again that she can't be trusted, not in the state of mind she is in.
There are no good answers here. At least none that I can see at this point. If I say no to my D14, she will be angry and more inclined to act out. I want to just shake the MLC out of my W. I know it's impossible and just wishful thinking but still.....
The "no parent around until 9:00" for a teen? Yeah.... And an angry/emotional teen coping with her parent's D? Just discovering boys? Hmmmm. No brainer for me.
Summed up, if it were me, I would do whatever it took to make sure I was there for D14, even if that meant sell the house to be closer. It would be hard, sentimental value, of course. But you can't get these years back. I doubt you'd regret being there for her. W isn't getting better anytime soon.
Matt, I know you're angry at W. But try not to see it as her "winning", or about her at all. It's about you and D14. And what's best.
You have the chance to be closer, be more available, keep your eye on shenanigans.... your job is up in the air (like mine) which may turn out to be a gift you may not have seen before....
I don't know everything, obviously. But from what I know of your sitch, you as a parent, the turmoil caused by W? The only way of "winning" is doing everything in your power to help D14 succeed in a sh!++y situation.
Your sitch is moving along and you're getting some great advice from others.
I want to comment on your comments:
Originally Posted By: Matt
It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
My initial thought was: About time! I guess this man takes a bit longer than others to get this. We've been trying to get you to see this for a long, long time.
Now to your new rant about W.
She is not an evil person. Just messed up.
All of those "if she didn't/did...." ? Blah, blah blah.
You MUST deal with the reality on the ground. This means you need to step up and be the stable parent for D14. You are the one to guide her into young adulthood because W is not capable at the moment.
I strongly disagree with your assertion that W doesn't love D. Absolutely false. W does love your daughters. Right now, she's not available nor able to be a mother in the active sense. That svcks big time...I know, I know.
Originally Posted By: Matt
If I say no to my D14, she will be angry and more inclined to act out.
Don't tell me that you're afraid of your own D14??! Are you going to let her lead you by your nose??!! Be her best friend or her parent?
Step up the plate...even if you get spewing from the teenager. It's their God-given right! Every teenager in the world is hard-wired to spew against their "stupid" parents.
Wonka, Sorry buddy but you misread my post! I said that I'm CERTAIN that my W DOES love her D! Of course she does. I'm not that blind. It's not that I think she is some inhuman monster, like I said while I know she loves her D, she is just so self involved at the moment she can't see how her actions can put her D14 in a dangerous sitch.
My exact quote was "I don't think my W doesn't love her D's. I just think she is too self involved to be a parent right now".
I'm not "afraid" of my D at all. I've been here before as I have an older D and learned MUCH about how to best handle the 14-16 years. the last thing she needs right now is me telling her that because I don't "trust" her she can't live with her mom. All that will do is make things worse. The harder you try and "control" at this age the more inclined they will be to act out even more. It took me learning the hard way to find that one out. what she 'needs" is a parent that will at least be present, not left alone every day while she is just discovering boys!
Sorry you misread my post Wonka. The 'rant" was just the fact that since her MLC she just hasn't been at all interested in the parenting part of having kids. doesn't mean she doesn't love them just that she's just too into herself to care very much about doing the "work' of being an actual parent. Not a rant, just the cold hard fact.
The next thing is where the problem comes in....seems my D wants to live "mostly" with her mom. She said "Dad, you're my favorite parent, it's just that my school and all my friends live around there". I ask what she had in mind and she says "Well, I could spend weekends with you during the school year, I know lots of people who do that". I say that I never liked the 7days/7 days thing as I understand that it's hard, but that was the best we could come up with. I also told her that to be honest, I really don't like the fact that her mother leaves her alone almost every night until 9:00 or later. She said 'I'm a teenager dad, I LIKE not having anyone around". Of course you don't, but it's not what's best for you! I told her that it is easy to get into trouble not on purpose, but things can happen, especially if you have a boyfriend! She, of course defended herself saying she is a good kid (true) and she won't let anything happen. Of course she thinks that, she's 14! I told her that I would have to talk to her mother and Get this, she said "Mom said it was up to you!"!!! Oh, thanks a lot, W. Way to drop me under the bus!
Matt, my heart hurts for ya. I’ve been there before. That feeling of getting punched in the GUT. As I read this….some of my past experiences with my kids and my xw came rushing back. The fear, the hurt, the sense of betrayal, the feeling that I did everything right – yet my ex get’s to do whatever it is she wants….and now it impacts my R with my kids. I am sorry for you Matt. Here is what I can tell you…. 1) She is always going to be your D – always. 2) She will come back around..in time 3) all you can continue to do is be her rock. A very similar thing happened between my boys and me, my ex poisoned the chit out of them. At one point, my oldest son did not come over for months and when he did would look at me like he wanted to kill me. So what did I do? I stood…for HIM, for ME. I wanted to quit….many many times, I wanted to beat my ex, I never said anything bad about his mom. Never. I detached from HIM…it was the hardest thing to do. It [censored] big time. Guess what, he figured it out. I gave him the time and the freedom to figure his mom out. I never wanted him to hate her, I never wanted him to not have an R with his mom. I just knew though that his R with his mom was between him and her. I promised myself that at the end of the day…..if he was happy, well then, I would be happy. Isn’t that what we want for our kids, for them to be happy. About a year past, and Jr. started to come around more…..he opened up….he had been poisoned AND he found out the truth. Once he did, all of the anger he had towards me was redirected to his mom. He called her a liar, called her a bad mom, I mean he really let her have it. Believe it or not, as much as I do not like my ex, I felt for my son. He was in pain. He was confused. I brought him to therapy and he worked on it. He learned to forgive his mom. I was proud of him. He spent about a year living mostly with me. In time he really forgave his mom. Fast forward to this year…… my oldest has been home with me for about 2 months now, he has seen his mother maybe 3 days…. As a matter of fact, just the other day he said the following to me: “Dad…ya know I’ve been thinking about this thing with Toria (my daughter an another long story)….ya have to let her figure it out Dad, she has been wanting mom for years now….and now mom is giving her everything she wants… let her….Toria will figure out one day, who the parent is. You see Dad….you and mom switched places after the divorce. You dad…really became the parent….mom…umm…she is all about herself right now. I think though that one day, mom will figure it out and maybe she will change back to being the mom we really loved. I love you dad”.
My point – this is hard chit dude. Really hard. I am going through the same exact thing with my daughter who just hit “woman hood”. All you can do dude, is be the best Dad you can be. The rest leave to God. So as hard as it is……ask yourself….what is the best thing for your daughter. I can tell you that NOT seeing you is not the best….but maybe Matt…..give her the space to figure it out. If I was in your spot, I would agree to see her every weekend. Yes it [censored]. Yes it will take a toll on your personal life. Yes you will feel like your ex “won”…this is not about your ex though…it is about your daughter. You are not going to lose her Matt – you never did. She needs to figure this out herself.
Quote:
This wouldn't be happening if my W didn't move 30 miles away. If she hadn't refused to send her to the school that she wanted to go to but my W didn't want to be bothered picking her up and taking her to! I should have fought her and stopped her from putting my D in a school so close to her! I hate my W! She destroys her family because she has no coping skills and is a selfish jerk in MLC and now I'm going to lose my D14!! I hate her, I hate her, I hate her! My D19 moved because my W "had" to move away and now this!
I agree, that on some level this is happening because of the divorce – you are going to have to work through the anger dude. It aint easy. If your ex is anything like mine….she will have the chit eating grin…that says….”yep…I won…f you…”. Ignore it brother. Ignore it. It is okay to hate her right now Matt. It really is. In time….the hate will go away…. Do NOT bash your ex – under no circumstance. I am not saying that you should lie for your ex. Nope. Do not offer up any info about your ex…unless your D asks you and even then you need to be age appropriate. Remember…this is not about YOU or YOUR ex…it is about your daughter. Right now you need to think about what your daughter needs. All you can do is be Dad…you cannot fix your ex, you cannot fix this for your daughter…..
And here is the hard part…. “trusting the process”….. yep, trust Matt that you have been a good dad, trust Matt that the seeds that you planted in your daughter will begin to blossom. Trust that no matter how f’ed up your ex is….she will NOT be able to “take your daughter away”.
Quote:
I told my D14 that I would try to think of something different. That if I have to I'll sell my house and move to where her mother lives. Gee, another win for the selfish ass that my W has decided she wants to be! My D14 said "I can spend Thanksgiving week and X-mass with you". I tell her no, according to the D decree her mom gets her Thanksgiving this year. My D says "Really? She told me she was going to go spend it with her father". OK, so more proof that she doesn't even bother reading the stuff her lawyer sends to my lawyer! It stated that I get X-mass but she gets Thanksgiving this year. She has no idea because her D14 means NOTHING to her. Why does she even want her if she spends zero time with her?
Your ex is lost right now Matt and nothing you say to her is gonna sink in. Nada. Nothing. No matter how you say it. Nothing will get through to her. You see, your ex is living for HER and no one can change that expect HER. If it make sense for you to move, then move, if not, then don’t.
Quote:
My W s@cks! and doesn't deserve to be a mother to her own kids! She stopped being anything close to a mother a long time ago and now she gets to take my D14 from me except weekends? No F'g way! Ugh!
Yes she does and she will continue to suck as a parent until SHE decides not to. So…post a couple of ideas you have for how you can change the parenting plan. What really works for YOU and YOUR D. Cause your daughter is all that matters.
I am sorry that you are going through this…I know how much it hurts….It will get better – I promise. It just takes time. Maybe…just maybe….you can bring up the idea of therapy for your daughter. Take her to see someone, give her the tools and the forum to really express how she feels. And then….keep loving her….keep telling her your love her….spend as much time with her as you can.
Ya know, one of the things that I have had to learn is that…..as a divorced parent, you want your kids around, you really realize the in many cases your MLC ex is not the best parent…so you try to “fix it”, you want your kids to NOT have to suffer, you try and compensate the guilt you feel by becoming super dad. In the end, you have to stay true to you. You cannot fix everything for yours. You can though show them how to work through stuff, you can let them fall so that they can learn to pick themselves back up.
Consider a rock. A big Rock. Does it move? No. Even in a huge storm…does the rock move? No. Even in a hurricane the rock does not move. Right? No matter what the rock is ALWAYS there….always in the same spot…. YOU Matt need to be your daughters rock right now. Consistent. Never wavering. Never moving. Always there when she needs you. You are the Rock Matt….you are your daughters Rock. She may walk away for a while….for a season….she will come back…she will come back to the rock. Why?
Cause it did not move. It did not crumble…and when the rubber meets the road……it is the rock where she will go.
(((hugs)))
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Thanks Eric, I am a lot less angry now than I was when I posted the first time. I realize that my D14 is just trying to cope with her new life the best way she can. I really don't blame her for wanting to be closer to her new friends. She is at the age where she is wanting to have a social life. In the past when she was at the small, private school, all the parents were very involved in their kids lives. Her friends were all almost like family as I had known them all since they were 6 years old. It was normal for parents to drive all over to take the kids places as everyone lived fairly far from each other as there was no school district and since we lived in the country, everything was a decent distance away. This is the first time where my d can walk to friends houses, places to meet, etc. She doesn't need to rely on her mom to take her everywhere she needs to go. Not only that, when she has needed a ride to get somewhere, she knew she had me to take her and I have. I have sat for hours waiting to pick her up because the drive home was so far but I wanted to be there for her. Even when she was staying with her mom I did this because her mother "couldn't" do it (more like she didn't want to and knew I would).
I know it's not about me or how she feels about me. She loves me, knows how much I care about her. She also knows that she can't count on her mom and it's not like she is wanting to stay with her because she is angry at me or enjoys being with her mother more than with me. To her, living with her mother allows her to have the best of both worlds. She knows that all she has to do is call me and ask for a ride to go somewhere and I'll do it. For her there is no "downside" to living at her mom's house because, at her age, parents are just a distraction from her friends, texting, etc. It won't be until she needs her mom and she's not there and I'm not available that she will understand what the downside really is.
She has been through so much in such a short time. If you were to ask her mother, she would say that D14 is doing "great" and has zero pain or upset from our D. What she doesn't understand is the fact that she wants to be where she has no parents around to get in the way is a bad sign. My W has no idea how D14 actually see's her right now. How upset she is at the way she has been acting towards me, my MIL, her sister. D14 wants to be independent, not just because she's going on 15, but because she has seen that she can't count on her mom, that her world can change overnight without her having any control at all, what happens just because her parent "changes her mind" about wanting to be a family.
The problem is D14 has no idea that she needs to have a parent around to help keep things under control. She really believes that she can handle any situation she may find herself in and doesn't need supervision. Think about it, how different kids at that age will act if they know that a parent is around compared to how they will act if they know that there aren't any parents around and don't need to worry. Add to that that the kids she has been around up until now are all kids she has known since she was 6 years old. All of their parents know each other, are very involved in their kids lives. All of them are very well behaved, come from a private, religious school background. None of them have been around drinking or drugs, don't curse or smoke or anything like that. Here she is going to be around much more "worldly" kids. Kids from much different backgrounds that my D has no idea even exists! She has no idea what can actually happen and that she won't be able to just say to someone "Hey, don't do that" and they will stop what they are doing. It's not D14's fault. She really thinks that is how things work. She has no idea just how sheltered she has been most of her life. This is one of the reasons I felt it was so important that she go to the larger private religious school she was planning on going to until her mother went insane. It would give her a chance to be around more worldly kids but in a more "controlled" atmosphere. When my older D19 got into trouble at this school and a guy she was interested in turned out to be trying to get her to smoke pot, all I had to do was go to the school and he was out and on his way back home by the end of the day. I sure can't do that here. What I don't get is my W saw the same thing I did with our older d. Of course she left it to me to take care of things but she should have seen how much worse it would have been if she was at a public school. I guess she just doesn't care enough.
By the way yes she gave me that chit eating grin last time I saw her. I just didn't know what it was about but knew something was up! She is such a child and i really can't find one redeeming quality in her any more. In the past I was always able to try and only see the good in my w no matter what . Now, I look and just can't find a single good thing about her. She treats her D's like they are just distractions from what she really wants to be doing, treats her own mother like crap and her "step mother" who destroyed her parents m like she was a Goddess. Now I have to find a way to work this sitch with d14 and I know I can't count on her to act like an adult and do what is right or even understand what is right!
I have so much on my plate right now. i keep getting blow after blow and I'm staggering a bit right now. The biggest blow is my d's well being. I have to stand up and do what is right but first I need to think it through and come up with what, exactly, IS right in this sitch! I just don't need this right now. I'll think about it and post some ideas and see what others think. Thanks Eric, you have helped!
The hardest thing to do is to let our children go. I understand your reservation and concerns. Consider this though....
1) You have planted a solid foundation in your daughter and nothing can take that away.
2) You cannot always shelter them....you need to let them figure it out.
3) How can your daughter ever learn to stand up and or pick herself up if you do not give her room to fall.
4) IMO, your daughter needs to learn about life in a "not so controlled" environment. FTR, I am not saying it is cool that she does drugs, hangs out with boys...NO...what I am saying is that the only way SHE will want to come back is...if you let her go and figure it out.
Matt - I am walking this same path with you...more than you know. I know how much it hurts, I know how much you just want what is best for your little girl. I know how tough it is watching them make mistakes and also watching an ex who is lost in her own world. I've lived this for a long long time. I am trying to save you the hurt.
When you let her go Matt, your daughter that is, you are not just ignoring her, you are not turning away, NO. What you are doing is giving her the space she needs to learn from HER mistakes.
Your daughter is gonna be fine. She has YOU as a DAD and believe it or not, that really is enough. She knows you are her rock. She knows that she can come to you and tell you everything.
If you choose to allow her the room to make mistakes...you'll need a few tools...
1) Text and call her everyday. Daily. No excuses.
2) Weekends she is with you. No if and or buts.
3) She is to let you know where she is going. Even on her mom's day. F' dat you are the responsible parent now.
4) Get to know her new friends. I know they are 30 miles away. No excuse...get to know them.
5) Be present in her life - always.
(((hugs)))
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
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