Nitty in a Nutshell #2

[Nitty]

Thanks, everybody, for your good wishes. But that last post seems so full of myself. And I feel I messed up when I tried to encourage Shakspr after OM was discovered. Who am I to be giving advice? Also, my roller coaster ride continues.

Atsbaby, we are still separated but you are right, as you will see below. I wonder how we could do this if we couldn't go back to our respective corners and be by ourselves for a while. With Clark still living with you, that's hard.

JOURNALING HERE:

Last Saturday was our real date, the one that had been scheduled in advance, and I backslid big time. I felt needy, clingy, kept bringing up R questions, then telling myself to back off. I found it difficult to validate or affirm, I interrupted him when he told me what he was feeling, got defensive, and mostly I started building up a pile of resentment.

Sunday I tried working out what exactly was wrong. I decided I feel he expects too much from me. He doesn't understand why I'm not diving in head first because, hey, he's here now, isn't he? And even though it's been eight months of him threatening to D me and being hostile -- with little blips of decent sprinkled here and there -- he thinks his sudden change in attitude is enough to fuel a reconciliation, to rebuild my trust in his intentions.

A side note. I find that I stopped journaling our interactions this week, so it is a blur and I'm not remembering very well what went on. I am really stressed at work because this is our busiest time, until mid November, and I've been working overtime, not spending much time on anything but work.

One thing I do remember: he has been calling me again, which is so nice. For over a year he did nothing but texting. Now I know that not talking in person was him pulling away and staying away, and his calls now are a way to connect in a more personal way.

Tuesday I had a DB coaching session and worked on strategies. Mostly I complained that I was losing it, that I was filled with resentment. She asked me what Mr. Gritty could do to repair things. I was stumped, I'm not sure what he CAN do to repair things. I need to think on that more. I did come up with "hear me". I want Mr. Gritty to hear me.

Wednesday I met with my IC, who I can tell isn't too happy with me reconciling with Mr. Gritty. He wants to make sure I'm not going back to a dysfunctional role in my marriage, keeps reminding me that Mr. Gritty is a needy, high-maintenance kind of guy. He asked me to make a list of my dealbreakers and stick with them.

So I did. First on the list: Mr. Gritty has NC with OW. There are more but I won't go into them all and one will show up later in this post.

My IC also gave me some more books to read, both by Jay Earley. I am to make friends with the scared little girl who will put up with any kind of crap in order to save a relationship that probably doesn't need saving.

Thursday Mr. Gritty and I had our fourth session with the mediator and Mr. Gritty officially ended D mediation. I was so glad he followed through. We then spent an hour in counseling and an hour doing financial issues caused by the separation. Mr. Gritty didn't blow up once during the session, which was a first, and he willingly gave me my expenses. This is a huge breakthrough because he puts his money where his heart is.

SUMMARY OF OUR MC (we're in MC now!) SESSION:

I am always being reminded to be more direct, and to stand up to Mr. Gritty. He is reminded to tone it down. We are to use this strategy:

The moment one of us feels like something is "off" or that we've heard something hurtful or wrong or whatever, the other is to ask for more clarity.

H: You are trying to control me again.

M: I need to understand what it is I'm doing that causes that feeling.

Easy to do in a MC office, not so easy without a coach to referee during a heated session.

Mr. Gritty complained during the session that he dislikes having to pursue me. (Because I'm not asking him out.) Rather than responding with a list of the times I did ask him out, I just asked him to go with me on Saturday to do a watersports activity and then lunch after. That particular watersports activity he's never done before and never wanted to try it. But I put him on the spot and he had to say yes.

WE HAVE A FIGHT

On Friday he called to ask me to dinner. We went to a nice place, had a lovely time but on the drive home we had a gawdawful fight. It was terrible, one of the worst we've had.

It started when he told me (again) that he couldn't accept something I did after he left me. His inability to forgive me for that action is one item on the list of dealbreakers that I created with my IC.

So instead of validating that he felt hurt, I told him that if he couldn't forgive me for what I did when I could forgive him for his EA/PA, then that probably was a dealbreaker. (This is from my list of dealbreakers I made with IC.) And Mr. Gritty blew up. He shouted and yelled. I focused on being direct, matching his tone of voice, etc., instead of withdrawing into silence. All that did was escalate the fight.

It got pretty bad. He started driving too fast and braking hard at stop signs, then accelerating too hard from the stops. All the while telling me off and me standing up to him, which made him even madder.

THE FIGHT GETS REALLY BAD

We finally got back to his place without one of us going through the windshield. Normally we walk through a gate to get to his unit and he holds it open for me because it's a heavy iron gate on a spring. But he just stomped through it and let it go and it hit me in the shoulder because I was right behind him. He jumped when it slammed and immediately moved to reopen it (when it closes it locks) and told me "Sorry!"

I blew up at him and told him through the gate, "FY!" and stomped off to my car.

I have NEVER ever said "FY" to him in our entire life together. When he gets really angry, he'll drop F bombs, tell me "FY", resort to name-calling, etc., and I never did that. Instead, I would tell him he was hitting below the belt, cry, then withdraw. But Friday night I did use profanity. I felt like saying, "FY!" so I did.

He ran ahead of me and was at my car when I reached it and told me I better not leave because he wouldn't go out with me to the watersports activity if I left. We shouted at each other on the sidewalk. That is another thing: he doesn't mind shouting in front of other people. I am never comfortable fighting in public, but I stood up to him and shouted right back, embarrassed about the scene we were causing but doing it anyway.

And I suddenly remembered why I never hit below the belt in the past even if he did: because he will only grab whatever I've said and focus on that rather than whatever we were arguing about in the first place. And our argument that night suddenly became about my "abusive FY" response to him, rather than the original topic.

He asked me if I would like it if he told me to "FY!" He repeated the phrase several times. "How would you like it, hunh? 'FY!' 'FY!' 'FY!' 'FY!' How does that feel, B***h?" I finally remembered my DB coaching. I held up my hand and said those rehearsed statements. "I won't allow you to call me names. I'm going to leave now. We can retry this when we can talk respectfully."

Mr. Gritty asked if I thought it was respectful to tell him, "FY!"? And said that if I left, that would be IT. The END. He wasn't going with me to do watersports and BTW? We would be DONE.

In my calm moments I know I will be okay if we D even though it is the last thing I want. But I did not walk away because I did not want to go back to the mediator and restart the D. I need to be able to call something quits. But I didn't do it.

WE REACH A TRUCE

We shouted some more on the sidewalk before finally agreeing to take it inside. He said the fight started because I issued an ultimatum in the car. I told him it wasn't an ultimatum, but as I write these words I'm wondering if it WAS an ultimatum. Aren't the terms "ultimatum" and "dealbreaker" kind of similar? But I told him I didn't see it as an ultimatum. An ultimatum is telling me that if I leave, we are getting D again.

I started crying, he ran out of steam, then we both sat down and didn't say anything for a while. After some time passed in silence he apologized and then I apologized. We agreed that we need to learn how to fight in a more positive way. I asked if we could watch a show or something, to get the fight out of our heads so we watched something that I can't even remember now. Then I went home.

Yesterday we had a good day. He asked me to breakfast and apologized again for the night before. I accepted the apology and thanked him for it. Told him I was sorry for my part in it. We went to the watersports activity and he had a good time. We had a nice lunch, then decided to watch a movie. Then I went home. But I'm very confused and worried.

I remember better now that I stopped confronting him about stuff because fighting is too hard, too awful. I felt I was helping our marriage become better by swallowing my grievances and letting them go, rather than fight. But now I know that a no-conflict relationship is unhealthy.

To survive, we need to be able to resolve our differences in a good way. But will we be able to? We both flood with so much emotion that we say and do the worst things. My instinct is to withdraw, roll up into a little ball. His instinct is to win at all costs, justifying whatever he does because somebody else "made" him do it.

This morning he called me. He told me that his biggest fear is that we will work hard to be together, then a couple years from now will end up in old habits and relive the hell that was our marriage before he left me, only this time with the baggage from the A, so we'll end up divorcing anyway and he'll have wasted a couple more years of his life.

My thoughts exactly, except that I didn't think our marriage was hell. I thought I had it all figured out, how to avoid conflict and never fight. I thought we were a happy marriage. Now I know that was unhealthy.

I told him we should do what we can to repair things and if we both decide it isn't going to work, then we can D amicably, as friends, rather than in the hostile fashion in which we were trying to D before. (I said "we" even though he was the hostile one, not me, but probably best not to point that out.)

He agreed, but then he said: "Nitty, I feel like we've got a really high chance of surviving. I really believe it. I'm still afraid we'll fail, but I am optimistic that we'll probably make it."

I hope this is true. But it's not going to survive if we can't figure out how to fight more constructively, that's for damn sure.

[Ggrass]

Mmmmm wow nitty, that whole fight that's was me and my h exactly.

Exactly, but now I do simlar to what you did. In our case I know how it starts and I hope this might help you. Ours starts to go down when he starts to pressure me into unhealthy stuff. As in I must agree to his pov no matter what, even if it costs me money or dignity his view is the only one.

Now when he starts to wind up and I now can see that (before I couldn't until he stated this is circling) and so when he refused to listen or acknowledge and difference I quickly ended the whole meeting.

I said " I'm really sorry but I really do have somewhere I need to be"
It was powerful to be able to stop the start of his abuse, and I believed the statement. ^^
It was my choice to listen or leave.

He could not control that, which was his goal.

[Nitty]

Ggrass, that is such a great way to respond. Thank you for this.

I'm really sorry, but I really do have somewhere I need to be.

Thank you for this. Unless I rehearse statements like these, I am stuck. Lately I've been forgetting what I rehearsed. I need to get back to daily review.

[Nitty]

I am now branching out in my reading to include "piecing" threads. Raine's thread is especially helpful. I found this quote from TL72* and had an aha moment:

"A Jekyll/Hyde MCLer is full of anger, uncontrollable rage, deep unhappiness, and irrationally thinks the LBS is out to get them so their actions are extreme such as gaslighting, engaging in a "gotcha" game with the LBS, and trying to hurt them in every conceivable way (legally, emotionally, financially).

A kitty kitten MLCer is low-level type of person who is deep into the fog, forgetful, spacey, may engage in occasional spewing, and usually does not engage in gamesmanship with the LBS. Most often the LBS can talk back at the kitty kitten MLCer with some well-aimed "truth darts" without any serious blow backs from the MLCer. The anger and rage aren't the predominant driving forces for the kitty kitten MLCer. Forgetfulness and spacey behaviors are at the forefront for the kitty kitten MLCer.

I have a label I may apply to Mr. Gritty now. He is a "Jekyll/Hyde MLCer."

When he feels vulnerable, he immediately assumes I am out to get him. If he feels he's been hurt, he immediately tries to "even the score".

He was being hard about money (it was all "his" and my share was what he "gave" me). At one point he said he'd fight me "tooth and nail" about any support at all unless I put in writing that I would work 40 hours a week during the entire time I received any support.

And yet he wasn't cruel legally. He did gaslight. Always claimed to "catch" me in lies or attempts to hurt him.

Right now he is Dr. Jekyll. Mr. Hyde reared his head during our fight on Friday night. I need to find more advice about dealing with a Jekyll/Hyde MLCer, especially regarding piecing.

[Shakspr]

Nitty, please never be sorry for encouraging me. I said it before and I'll say it again - I need both encouragement and the occasional 2 x 4 to DB to the best of my ability - especially post-D.

I don't have anything to add to the above. Full-blown fight mode is not somewhere I'm comfortable either. I do believe that you have entered a hard, scary place with your MLC H. But you have proven to us and to Gritty and to YOURSELF that you are tough enough to make it.

He said "thank you" to you for waiting for him for a reason.

MR alert: Perhaps he's scared of all the work HE knows he'll have to do now to forge a better relationship. And he doesn't know if he's up to the task. And he isn't out of blame mode yet, so it's easier to create "straw man" what-if arguments in his own mind than to simply be solution-oriented.

[Ggrass]

Did you read where I was dressed up?

To collect my things, I went in dressed to kill. i had that line and the thought I'm meeting one of the shop hotties.

I wasn't but boy I had myself convinced I was.

I found something that works in stopping his rail roading of me. When I saw my psych In The shop she said the I have somewhere to be. Is one she uses and teaches her clients to use.

[wmwb123]

Hi Nitty,

Sorry to bother you. You were so kind to respond to me before, so I wonder if I can ask you another question? Did your husband communicate much with you? My wife hasn't contacted me at all in two months. She filed for divorce during that time without having the decency to tell me. Now her lawyer has requested mediation. Did you do anything in particular to "woo" your husband back during mediation, or did he come around on his own? Unfortunately, my wife's affair continues, but I'm hoping it will end before our mediation begins two months from now.

[Nitty]

GGrass, you and I had the same strategy... whenever I knew I'd be seeing H, I'd dress to the nines, act like I had someplace to go. But I'm going to use that line, I think, when we're on a date and it goes south.

Shakspr, thanks for letting me know you're ok with me... I felt pretty bad that I made you feel worse!

wmwb123, here is a couple million words that are flowing out of my brain. Sorry I am so wordy.

My H left me almost two months after BD. We'd been doing MC during that time, but as he never cut it off with OW it was doomed from the start. You should have no expectations, but realize no progress will be made if she is still seeing OW.

I have absolutely no idea why my H asked for reconciliation. I did not start my DB journal here until the end of summer, but I've been journaling at home since early December when I got the BD. In looking through the millions of pages I wrote, I recorded him trying to reconcile a couple of times before, but always on his terms and it never lasting more than a couple of days before he would become hostile, curse and abuse me verbally and drop out of sight again.

In the first six months of our drama, I did try to "woo" him. It did not work at all. I wasn't true to myself, did whatever I thought he wanted of me, whatever it would take to bring him back. EPIC FAIL.

Then a seriously nasty event happened in which even I could see he was not protecting me, in fact, he was hurting me and I was letting him hurt me because I had no boundaries. That was in May, and immediately after the nasty event he insisted I had agreed to an open marriage. I had just read DR and resolved to stick with a boundary I would not let slide like I had every other boundary that had crumbled in the last year: "I will not live in an open marriage."

As he "needed" an open marriage, he announced he would D me.

At that point I decided to really GAL, not just pretend I was GAL to get him back. I worked at no longer focusing on him all the time, not as a method of winning him back but as a way to save my sanity. Somehow I really think that's when he started looking back. The "dropping the rope" metaphor is totally on target. When I stopped pulling at him, perhaps he turned to see why I wasn't pulling anymore.

I started doing things I always wanted to do but H didn't (GAL). Camping, watersports, concerts, local high school and community events, ballroom lessons... I've got a list I'm working my way through. If I couldn't find something to do, I had friends over for dinner and sang and played board games. The point is: be with people and do something fun. I wanted to join a dodgeball league, for example, but my work schedule interfered.

I posted jokes, funny videos, and inspirational messages on FB, but no pix of myself. Instead, my friends posted pix of me hanging out with them. When he'd hint via text that he was curious about what I was doing, I forced myself not to tell him every detail (a 180 for me). I was mysterious and not the open book I've been my entire life.

He started contacting me more but the contact was mostly hostile and always by text. It was difficult and emotionally straining. I cried a lot. I tend to be timid when it comes to confrontation and those months of gritstorms and textkriegs were hell.

I did try to be as attractive as possible whenever I knew there was a chance of seeing me. I spent money on hair "blowouts" until I learned how to do them myself. I wore the outfits he always liked. When we started mediation, I did power poses in the stairwell of the mediator's office. I did tapping.

Then I just began living as if I was getting D no matter what. I just accepted it was going to happen. I told co-workers I was going to get D. I began to plan my life as a D woman. Plans included international travel with a group of friends next year. I even considered teaching English in an Asian country for a couple of months. I began to visualize myself in a world without my H, and it wasn't too bad. The possibilities were huge. It would be a second life. How many people get the chance to live a second life? The good Walter Mitty life, not the bad one?

I was still grieving and in pain, just looking forward. I was still suffering whenever he'd text me in a hostile fashion. Sometimes I couldn't sleep because I was so fearful of the D process, of his reactions to me asking for alimony for example. I still prayed for courage. I put us on every prayer list I could find. At first my prayers begged God to bring him back, but then I asked God to do what was right for both of us, to help me face whatever was coming. I meditated, read books, but I figured D was going to happen.

I kept a list of things I was grateful for and concentrated on how grateful I felt and how good my life is, even without H in it. I made myself look in my mirror in the morning and tell myself how much I loved me, that I loved me like God loved me, like I loved my kids. I tried to feel the love. THIS WAS SO HARD. I did not love me. I think I love me now but looking in the mirror was one of the hardest things to do.

I messed up constantly. I wanted more than anything to show him I was a strong, confident woman, about to be set loose on the world. But I cried through our D mediation sessions. Sometimes I wouldn't validate or affirm him, just slap him (via text) with what I felt. Like him blasting me (via text) for poisoning his career by telling his coworkers about the A. (I never did that--it turns out his A was the talk of the office before even the BD.)

I responded: "Real remorse wears the shame and takes responsibility for the fallout. Fake remorse wants me to protect your image." (I got this from Chumplady. I can never think of good things to say on my own. LOL.) And he stopped texting me that night.

I based all my actions on the research I did on the threads on this forum. I focused on threads of successful reconnection. I concluded that some M will fail even if the LBS is a perfect DBer. But I made sure to note the attitude and actions of those who succeeded. I especially like Starsky's threads (he was ChocolateEyes then). I tried to channel Starsky's attitude. Never got it even 60%, but just trying was, I think, positive for me.

But really, Mr. Gritty trying to come back right now is all his idea. He may run again and I will be hurt. We are fighting terribly this week. TERRIBLY. And only because I am doing what the conflict resolution expert is telling me to do, because I had stopped fighting with H during our M. (If you always fought during your M, your advice from a conflict resolution expert will probably be different.)

Anyway. Each time we fight, I think he will run. So far he is still trying and so am I.

I won't take anything for granted. We are still separated and probably will be for a while. No expectations. I take it one day at a time. On Monday I was ready to throw in the towel. I felt like I lost all the love I had for him and would be happier D.

I looked at the list I made of things I can do if I am D. I look at it and tell myself "I will be okay no matter what. How about I take Lindy Hop lessons during the next adult ed semester!" But I also found my list of goals that I made in April. The first two say, "He will stop threatening D." and "He will stop dating others." When I wrote that, I did not believe it would happen, and now it has. And I was encouraged.

If I were you, I would do my best to turn away from her, to turn instead to your future without her. Treat her as a sister, a good friend you love and are concerned about, but not the center of your world. If she needs something unrelated to leaving you, help her if you have the time and it doesn't hurt you, but do it without expectations. Tell her you wish her well and walk away. Doing this is very, very hard, SO HARD.

During your D, do the bare minimum you need to do to be considered cooperative. In my case, I could've helped Mr. Gritty with his D paperwork, but I did not. I could've moved the D along, but I did not. And he never filled out the forms he needed, never brought in the financial documents he needed to bring. I did not complain. I figured: time is my friend.

My friend Shakespr co-signed a lease on an apartment for his W. I'm so glad I don't have minor children that need housing with the WAS. Shakespr HAD to protect his kids, but if there are no kids, don't co-sign anything for the WAS or help the WAS with moving out or anything else related to leaving you. Always be busy and unavailable to help.

Act as if you look forward to your future with or without her, because your future is gonna be awesome. You're not signing up for online dating, but you ARE and WILL live a good life without her. Because God is awesome and He won't let you down. Everything happens for a reason. This is only part of your story. Who knows how it will end.


PS: I also hired a DB coach because I am no good at strategy. I needed a strategist I could tell everything to and who would say, "Yeah, H was pretty damn nasty. How about we try something different. Let's do this. Let's protect you AND help the M." Instead of someone saying, "He is an emotionally abusive a$$hole! You need to protect yourself! Screw him! Dump his a$$!) I paid for 6 DB sessions, thinking, "well, I am going to get D. It's hopeless. But maybe I can keep the road home paved and clear with a coach's help. Maybe it will work and maybe it won't."

[wmwb123]

Thanks so much, Nitty. That's great stuff. I'm going to read that several times. My wife and I have not communicated in any way in more than two months. I don't know how she's interpreting that. I imagine that the next time we see each other will be at mediation. I'm praying daily that the affair will implode. Time is definitely my friend, and providentially, the mediation date is more than two months from now. I can't imagine that's normal, and since it's her lawyer that's delaying things I have to believe God is working behind the scenes. I'll try to be positive at the mediation sessions. Thank you again for that response.

[Ggrass]

My wake up moment was when h had said if you need anything or there is drama emergencies just call me as I will help out.

So dumbar$e me believed this, and when there was a flood (he has 4wd that could have accessed my house) and I could not get home (my car got bogged in a ditch at 10pm in the country miles from anywhere) and my son was home alone I called h. Who refused to take the call. Who then called back 16hours later to blow sand in my face. which I missed the call because I had no mobile phone left dead battery no charger. He then refused to take my call later that day as he was "to busy" then when he caught up with me 5 days later he had no idea why I told him he wasn't my friend he put my sons life at risk in a sense.

It was all about him, him making him seem very important. Sometimes we need these wake up calls. To see how things really are. I didn't need the negativity in my life and neither do you nitty.