M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
Matt, I agree w/Georgiabelle. You can't have a rational conversation w/an irrational thinking person who is operating on pure emotions at this time. Being cordial and pleasant during your interactions will show her that you actually do not hate her, but it also shows her that you aren't going to lower yourself to the level she is at currently.
I know you are hurt, disappointed, angry (at times) and most of all frustrated, but until this woman burns herself out emotionally and sees that you are not the enemy, she's going to continue to act out and more so especially if you push or react in a negative way to her behavior.
You've come a long way and I've been impressed at how far you've come since your dark days when joining the forum. I know you'll find the job that will keep you busy and challenge you. Continue to send out those resumes and when you least expect it, the job will appear. Stay positive and continue moving forward.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
She knows because her lawyer talks to her and has an idea why your lawyer hasn't sent anything over. BUT. When it comes to negotiations, that's exactly what you want her to feel like.
If she wants to hurry, she'll need to meet your terms. Not what you've said in the past, but your terms. She can burn a bunch of money on a lawyer or get money from you via stocks, house, etc. It's a trade off. (be wary of dealing with irrational people here) Re-think what you are willing to give up and what you are willing to dig in and fight for.
You can't stop her from doing what she is doing. You can't. You can wish her well and go live your life. But you can do things now that will keep you from looking back and thinking you should have done this, or should have done that...
She's desperate to get it over with? Why do you need to be in a hurry if you aren't getting what you (reasonably) want from the ordeal?
My $0.01 worth.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I really want to have one last talk with her though. I would like her to know that while I don't think D is the answer, I don't hate her. That I really do hope she finds whatever it is she is so badly missing in her life. We haven't been alone a single moment since she left. Of course, I don't have any idea what she is thinking now that she is gone. Whether she is happier or not, it's all she hoped it would be or not. I don't think it matters, don't get me wrong. Just something I'm curious about.
Be true to yourself, Matt. If, after all considerations, a talk is something you feel you need for YOU, then do it. No sense in having regrets down the road, ya know? Just don’t have any expectations that it will change things or mean much to her. It very well may make you feel better though.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Wow, it feels good when all my peeps show up with such great advice! GB, job, AJ, FY, new New Yorker Heather, even MM! So glad to have all of you in my life. I never would have gotten to know any of you except for this rotten sitch, always some good in every bad!
I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. I guess I'll know more once I see my lawyer. D14 is with me this week and I was going to have to take her to school and come back 30 miles to see him but my D is not feeling well so now I don't need to get her to school. My glasses broke yesterday! Just snapped in half. Now I don't have the money to get new ones. Lucky for me, I don't need them except for distance and I actually pasted my driving test without them but I don't like to drive without them. I tried to repair them but no use. Just another small irritation.
I was thinking today about M. Not just mine but M is general. It occurred to me that whether or not you have a "good" or "bad" M is entirely up to you. Right now there are people whose S hits them or belittles them every day but if you were to ask them if they have a good M they would say yes, they do. Even if you were to point out that hey, this person treats you badly, they would defend them and maybe say something like "Yes, but he/she really does love me" or "Oh, that's my fault, if I were a better S they wouldn't have to do that". Just like so many things in life it's how YOU look at things that make something "good" or "bad". Especially when there isn't any overt abuse, when all that is going on is the little every day problems that would be there whether you were M or not.
It's ALWAYS a choice YOU make to see your M, your job, your home, your kids, really any part of your life (heck, your life in general) as either good or bad. We can choose to be happy even when things aren't going our way or choose to be unhappy even if they are. No one has the power to make any other person "feel" happy. The exact things that my W says are reasons why she needs to leave our M are the exact things that some other person would love to have someone willing to do for them, that would "make" them happy. It's truly up to each person to decide for themselves whether they are happy or unhappy. Have a great life or an awful one. Appreciate that they have someone in their life that loves them or look at that person as "in their way" from finding "joy". This is especially true when there isn't a OP in the picture. I guess if you are unhappy with your life and meet someone who "makes" you feel infatuation, you can start to think that your S is in your way, that this OP is the answer to true happiness. Stupid and in 99.999% of cases not at all a way to find lasting happiness but someone in crisis could think that way.
No, I guess I'm just realizing that my W made the choice to have the M she did. It was always up to her if she had a good M or bad one. The thing is that goes the same for us LBS's. WE have the choice to see our lives as "good" or "bad" now that our S's have run away. We have the same choice now that we did in our M. I always choose to see my M as good. To see my W as the good person who I loved, warts and all as they say. I could have looked for only the bad. Saw things she did or said that weren't positive, M enhancing things as "making' our M "bad". But instead I tried to understand that no one is perfect, we all make mistakes or act badly sometimes. Even when she was depressed and was doing things almost every day that made things harder, I "choose" to see that as part of her depression and not a reason for me to want to end our M.
So, now that my M is ending, I still have the same choices I have always had. I can choose to see my life as "bad", my W as "bad" or I can choose to see that my life is going to be as good as I see it as being. That my W is still the same person she always was (although acting quite differently) and isn't "bad" or "good"...she just is who she is. It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
I just smiled and said "Don't worry, you'll get what you want soon"
That ^^^ is still your hurt speaking. Chances are you are gonna feel this for a while – hence limit your conversation and your words. IMO, it is also on some level an expectation. The faster you lose the expectations, the faster you will really begin to feel better.
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I really want to have one last talk with her though. I would like her to know that while I don't think D is the answer, I don't hate her. That I really do hope she finds whatever it is she is so badly missing in her life.
The talk you want to have is….imo, an expectation again. It could also be your way of closure. I think ya need to do what YOU feel you need to do – with no expectations. Think about it…… chances are you want to say this so that on some level she realizes you’re a nice guy and that you understand. The problem I see, is that chance are she will not see or if she does, she will not tell you. So you may walk into a sitch EXPECTING her to say she is sorry, confused, whatever…and then you may feel worse if she doesn’t. Make sense? That said, you know yourself better than any of us, if you feel you need to have the convo for YOU – then go for it.
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Maybe because it's so "final' once it's at that point, I really don't know.
About the only thing that is final is death. She may wake up next week, next year, 30 years from now…or never. My point is to try and train your mind to really just live in the moment. Just take things one day at a time.
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My glasses broke yesterday!
I have actually seen glasses deals on Groupon…so ya may want to check the site. Maybe you can find a place by you that has a discount.
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Just like so many things in life it's how YOU look at things that make something "good" or "bad".
Very good perspective! Very good. Your W can rewrite history…you do not though.
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It's totally up to me how I see her. It's totally up to me how I see myself. I can choose to be happy or unhappy no matter what is going on around me. I guess it's time to decide to do just that!
I am smiling ear to ear reading this Matt. You are spot on….it is always YOUR choice. So IMO, I say choose happiness. Oh…and two other things….. this whole process, has and will always be about YOU. You Matt and only YOU really decide when the R with your W is over – divorced or not.
Good luck on the job search.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Hey Eric, glad you stopped by! I really feel that this time it's more about my wanting to just get some things out. Whatever her reaction to those things is really doesn't matter. In fact if I have any expectation, it would be that she won't care or even allow herself to change anything she thinks (actually, not thinks, more "feels") about anything having to do with our sitch. I get what you are saying and in the past I would have expected some kind of reaction but not this time.
So, had my meeting with my lawyer this morning. It actually went better than I thought it would (see, expectations!). The basic thing that is getting in the way of coming to some sort of resolution in our D is this...My W's lawyer is a "friend" of my lawyer. My lawyer says that her L is very good at keeping his clients in check when they are asking for too much. The problem is that my W hasn't been forthcoming with her L about everything that she needs to. Her lawyer had no idea that we have a large number of antiques that need to be divided. He had no idea that my W had been sued for non payment of student loans that she incurred before we were married. As far as her L knew, my W tried to stop me from cashing in my retirement from my job I left BEFORE we were M and that the money was kept separate from our joint accounts when it actually went to pay for living expenses and bills that we incurred together. As far as her lawyer knew, I was getting a sweet deal just being allowed to live in our house until D turned 18 as I never had to make any sacrifice at all. I had a feeling that my W wasn't being totally open about all this. She never even read the last two decrees that were sent to me and seemed surprised about what was in them. I have a feeling that she has allowed her father to take the lead with her D process and he really has no idea what has happened over the last 21 years.
The question now is a simple one....what did I bring into the M that was separate from my W and what did she bring into the M separate from me, assets and debts. Well, I had no debt coming into the M and had almost $50,000 in retirement funds from a job I left before we got M. My W brought only her student loan debt and very little else as she had just graduated a few months before we got M. Her SL debt was large and for all of our M life, we only got half the tax return money we should have because it went to pay off her SL's. I also paid off a lawsuit she had from the college she went to to pay off her debt with them. What he needs from me is a list of what debt she brought into the M, she had no assets like retirement (very small) and what debts and assets I brought into the M. He said that since the M is now ending, I have a legal expectation to recoup what I lost from those amounts. My W is also disputing how much our house is worth right now in the condition it is in. My L said that we can use the county tax assessment for that. It is higher than what we actually could get since it doesn't take repairs into account but is still only $56,000 and change. That would make my W's share $28K. Just half the value of the retirement I cashed in is $23K and that doesn't include the value of the antiques nor the amount of her SL debt we had to pay over the years.
The problem I now have is that I need to find the exact amounts of her student loans and she took all that paperwork with her. Since I never expected to get D'd, I never thought to sit down and add up all the different loans and find a total amount. I guess I'm learning "things to do if I ever get M again"! According to my L he thinks that my W is either naive and just didn't want to give her L any info that isn't a positive for her case or she feels "entitled" to much more than half. He's seen many women especially who get that attitude. (I thought "Yeah, they were probably having an MLC at the time!"). So, now I'm going to need to find a way to get that info. Just what I need, more things on my plate! Oh, well. At least I know that I may have a chance to at least keep my home. We also talked about the fact that my W leaves our D14 alone until late almost every night and he has the same thoughts about that as me, it's a bad idea. Nothing we can do about it unless my D14 is willing to say that she wants to live with me. We also talked about the fact my W moved so far and put D14 in school so far. It may be best for me to sell the house so I could live closer. But that's in future.
So, back to trying to make as much $ as I can and maybe find a better job. One step at a time!
Sound like a very good meeting with the L. I'm happy for ya.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
