Maybell XIV

[Ss06]

EEEk, I just reread what I wrote above and I'm not trying to imply at all that you don't teach your kids respect, Maybell. Jeez, that came out all wrong. I'm sorry.

I mean to say that in teaching your children mutual respect maybe they could dig deep and talk to their dad whether they want to or not. Make it a family rule for a while, to touch base with the other half of their DNA every day or every other day because YOU find it respectful.

Oy. Foot in mouth syndrom.

[Maybell]

No, he has stopped calling every day since he started taking them one weeknight a week. Now it's every other day, and sometimes every 3rd if they decline to speak to him as S8 very emphatically did tonight while H was talking to S6.

No offense taken. I've tried taking that tack with them.

[Maybell]

Over the weekend I read an article "15 things every dad of daughters must do"

Yeah, I know, armchair psychology, but the list was intriguing and very fair.

Which has gotten me to thinking of my relationship with my dad, and how it informed my own relationships, especially the one with my husband.

My dad was a complete workaholic, believes in women's work, praised me for my first job at a law firm saying, "Great, now you can get your MRS too" (Hello, it was 1994 not 1964!!). I never believed he thought I was capable of anything. I have three younger brothers and he spent a LOT of time teaching them stuff around the house and going on fishing trips and baseball games with them, stuff I was never invited to do (nor was there anything he DID share with me). He is enormously conflict avoidant with my mom (though not with me). He has called me on the phone himself probably 10 times in my adult life and doesn't like to talk to me about "emotional stuff." When he would discipline me, he always invoked "How would this behavior fly if you were in an office?" (How was I supposed to know?) or he would scream in my face. He liked to pick fights between me and my oldest brother and was contemptuous if I chose compassion over self-interest in my values.

In short, my relationship with my dad is the exact opposite of what I wanted from my relationship with my husband.

My husband is many of the things my dad did, though the screaming when frustrated is a behavior I'm sad to say I struggle with. But I chose my husband because in the early years of our marriage he worked regular hours and was much more balanced. Did he really not love me all those years, or is he just easily distracted?

Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.

[South74]

No, he has stopped calling every day since he started taking them one weeknight a week. Now it's every other day, and sometimes every 3rd if they decline to speak to him as S8 very emphatically did tonight while H was talking to S6.

No offense taken. I've tried taking that tack with them.

Just a quick question about contact with the kids .

Did the calls start at the beginning of the seperation ?

Or something that occurred after the dust had settled ?

My WAW has had very little contact with the kids and I hope that will change in the future if and when she comes out of the fog .

[Maybell]

My H was traveling internationally the first six weeks of our separation so it was not until two months in that he was able to be more consistent about contacting the kids. He has had to be prompted to actually spend time with them in person though.

Don't take my situation as a guide, though. Part of our difficulty has been about his involvement with the kids.

[Ahoy]

We just got D14 a phone so that she can talk to whoever, whenever. But she's older. And I admit that the phone is an issue -- mainly because she uses it to obsessively text her boyfriend. In fact, I had to confiscate it this morning. It's a relief not to be the go-between in her communications with H. SS's plan sounds like a good one for kids of that age.

[labug]

Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.

Short answer, a resounding NO! Recognizing where you are is the first step and wanting to change it is the second.

It was in my IC's office that I really realized that I'd married a pretty good replica of my Dad. I stomped my feet a bit but reality is reality. Gaining self-awareness is very worth the effort. have you thought about a new IC? The right person can be very helpful.

We have to learn to relate to the person we married, not the person we think/wish we had married. They are who they are and always have been, we just had our wishful lenses on. The problem with that is then every time they do something that's out of character for who we wish they were, it feels like betrayal.

Can you separate out the who he really is from who you wished he was?

It's good that you're taking a break.

[Underdog]

Aw, Maybell, I never wanted any of my posts to make you feel down in the dumps. I certainly hope that's not how you interpreted my input. It was only intended to encourage you to put on a new set of glasses and move off the square. Hugs.

As far as you not wanting to be the bad guy with the kids, well, here's a teaching opportunity. Let them know that it is *their* responsibility to tell their dad they don't feel like talking. Teach them to take responsibility for expressing how they feel and not to use you as the go-between. You know what they say happens to the messenger. Let them know it's okay to tell him this and that there will be no repercussions for stating their truths. I might encourage you to let your H know that you're going to do this as well. That way he can't accuse you of poisoning the kids against him.

I bought my now D20 a cell phone in 5th grade. Not because she wanted one or needed one to fit in, but because she was a latch key kid for a couple hours and I needed her to feel safe walking home from school. There were lots of restrictions. Whoever said that they have issues here, when my D20 was in high school, I did too. Fortunately, she never slept with her phone. If she had, I would have had her turn it off and turn it over to me until the following morning. What I did do was limit her messaging to 1000 messages a month. And I enforced it. She used to whine and b!tch about it since I have an unlimited data plan. But I slapped her with a dose of reality. It came in real handy when she moaned about never having enough time to do stuff or not sleeping enough...

One of my colleagues computed how many hours of texting 1000 messages was. Back then, it took a little bit longer and he figured it was somewhere between 7-8 hours a month. I flat out asked my D20, would an extra 2 hours a week get you caught up? Ummmm, yeah, it would help. On the months that she went over, I told her she was going to reimburse me 10 cents for every text. She did it exactly once, when she had to give me money (she is a really stingy person with her own money, but very generous with mine LOL).

I know you probably think I was a total biatch. Maybe. But I can tell you that the parents of all her friends used to comment how she was the only one without a true addiction to her cell phone. I have always felt it is a huge time sucker. And luckily for me, her dad completely backed me up. When she complained to him, he'd just tell her, "If you don't like Mom's rules, you can always get on your own plan." That usually stopped her in her tracks.

She's still on my plan and I no longer have those rules. And we text a few times a week to communicate between NY and CO. I will say that she has fantastic time management skills too.

Now, getting down to this:

Am I doomed to be miserable in my future relationships because I expect to be treated like that? I worry that those expectations are so deeply ingrained in me that I won't notice them until I'm in another situation like this one. And I never, ever, ever want to go through something like this again.

No!

Maybell, I'd venture to say that many of us here (and our WASs) have unconsciously chosen our parent(s) as mate models. I know for sure that it was true in my marriage for both of us. As long as you are aware of it, you can manage it. I'd encourage you to dig deep with your IC on what you need to "finish and close" with your dad so that it becomes a non issue going forward.

Maybe your X has done the same. Yes, you CAN choose differently, but you have to know what you're doing and why before you do.

When he would discipline me, he always invoked "How would this behavior fly if you were in an office?" (How was I supposed to know?) or he would scream in my face. He liked to pick fights between me and my oldest brother and was contemptuous if I chose compassion over self-interest in my values.

Wow, this was really hard to read. Nobody should feel like an employee at home. That stinks. If anything, you don't do this with your kids, and you've parented differently. That's awesome!

Now for a little pick me up. Whoever said maybe take a break is right. Don't spend so much time navel gazing and over analyzing. I know you want to fix what's not working. You are. It's just moving at a snail's pace. But I know you know that any lasting changes are the ones that are done slowly and the right way. And it takes time to turn a big ship around. You're getting it.

So what's good in store this week?

Hugs-
Betsey

[Maybell]

Betsy, I didn't feel in the dumps because of your post. I was really, really frustrated with myself for Friday. I went back to your post because I felt lost and I needed a starting place to go back to to find a new way. Nor do I think you're a biatch for being firm with your daughter. Parenting would be simpler if we all were.

D11 got a phone in September and she does occasionally text my H with it. I will take Ss's advice about telling rather than asking and making them tell H directly if they don't want to talk, as Betsey suggested. No matter what happens, I want my kids to have the skills and confidence to communicate clearly with the people they care about.

My FIL has apparently been pressuring my H to fly down for Thanksgiving rather than take the 11 hr drive. (He's even offered to pay for the tickets, which is absurd all things considered.) So H was bombarding me with all these logistical questions, like should he schedule this flight or that one, etc. I was feeling more and more upset and finally I texted an answer that should have dealt wih everything he could need to know to make his plans and then said "please limit how much you involve me in your logistics as I'm feeling hurt and angry at being kicked out of your family for the holidays."

He didn't answer me all day. But I felt good about drawing that boundary rather than letting him hurt me without even realizing I might have feelings about it. I hope it wasn't too harsh, but couldn't think how to say it more gently.

That thing about my dad just popped up from the article I read, which was intending to help me with my D11. The text was full of "so she knows how a boy should treat her" comments, and it really brought up all that stuff about my dad for me. I don't know if I'm ready to go back to IC. Aside from the trust issue, I don't think tackling that right now is consistent with limiting the navel-gazing. I have never really LIVED my life for myself. I need some practice at it.

Good things for this week: chaperoned a fun field trip today. Yoga tomorrow and more job search, and I'm signing up for a novel-plotting webinar in preparation for NaNoWriMo (with my favorite writing instructor). Wednesday is open, so job search & writing and a run. Thursday lunch with a friend and the webinar. Friday spending the day with a good friend who lives an hour away. This weekend kids want to decorate the house for Halloween and we'll probably do some baking.

I'm in a weird place today, kind of an in-between place of wishing this weren't happening to me and being ok with where I am. I know it sounds mutually exclusive, but I guess the nifty thing about being human is that we can feel two opposite things at once without needing to bring them into consistency.

[labug]

You're a tough bird, Maybell and that can be a good thing.

Why is digging into what's at the root of all this considered navel-gazing? Because maybe you don't yet believe you're worthy of happiness?

I get that you may not be ready yet, we get there when we get there but don't put up false roadblocks.

Good for you for realizing you needed to stay out of the logistics but it seems like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. I know these holiday things are tough. I whined and p!ssed and moaned and cried my way through that first Thanksgiving. I also felt abandoned by the family but really, what were they supposed to do? We were separated, that was the reality.

Keep pushing forward, watch out for that sledgehammer.