Has anyone seen a case of this being successful when OP is not removed completely? MDU's sitch is the only one I see remotely 'similar', although that's more out of necessity (work).
No, I haven't. And I would contend that mdu's sitch is NOT working, because:
a) mdu herself remains extremely anxious about the daily contact (it doesn't work for her) -- she does not feel safe in the relationship. And
b) After 7 months, her husband still professes to having feelings for OW. Had full no-contact happened, "hard withdrawal" would have taken only a couple of weeks, and his feelings for OW most likely would have been gone by now, in my experience.
It's a chemical/physiological thing, Tar. As Yogi said, "You can look it up." Continued contact (even NEGATIVE contact, btw) resets the wayward's withdrawal "clock" to 0:00:00 upon each contact.
I am interested to hear where you end up on full transparency vs. working on building back the trust. I totally understand the need for full transparency and why people on these boards advocate for it. But as a total novice at this, I also can see why the middle ground as a staring point might work. The former is a "rip the band aid off" approach while the latter is the "slowly remove the band aid" approach.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
I am interested to hear where you end up on full transparency vs. working on building back the trust. I totally understand the need for full transparency and why people on these boards advocate for it. But as a total novice at this, I also can see why the middle ground as a staring point might work.
Here is my thinking...not knowing the background of Tar's sitch...his W made a huge mistake. She knows it or at least we all hope so. But for whatever reason she is not ready to hand over her phone and provide full access. But perhaps she is willing to do things to show we is moving in the right direction. Canceling her FB account, for example? Providing more and more transparency every day until full transparency is there. Again, I am the novice but trying to keep an open mind.
But, I do agree that she should not continue to socialize with him and his friends. That frankly is a slap in Tar's face. If you are an alcoholic, you don't go to bars. Same here for his W's friends and the OM.
Me: 40, W: 40 M: 15, T: 18 D - 10, S - 7 D announcement 6/7/2014 A discovered 7/20/2014 (but denied by W) Still living together and sharing same bed
Has anyone seen a case of this being successful when OP is not removed completely?
NO! OMG, do you see what you are doing now?
This isn't being asked as an excuse- it's a question I'm looking for an honest answer for. If our pro marriage, solution based MC hadn't recommended it, I wouldn't even be considering it. I've been asking myself if it's an option I should even be considering. I'm looking for more info before making any type of decision and that would involve discussing the logistics in our next MC appt. And to Starsky's point, I do have serious concerns about W regaining feelings for me while OM has not been removed completely and I stated that in MC.
The fact that she said (in front of MC) that she'd be willing to shut down FB and bring me along when she goes to meet up with those friends does show me that she's willing to move in the right direction. For what it's worth, I would venture a guess that W hangs out with that group maybe once every 2 weeks, if that. She's a sub for their volleyball team (which ends this weekend) so sometimes plays or watches. So it's not like she's with them every weekend (she usually has the kids). Are there other ways to remain in contact with OM? Of course, but that would be the case whether full transparency existed or not.
True or not, W has told me (and MC) that she has no problem giving up contact with OM as it was never about him. Not excusing it, but I get that- we've been apart for a year and it did not become a 'relationship' until after we were S. Is it an A if you date someone while S from your spouse? I have my own personal beliefs on that, but that's not a black and white answer for some. However, she's stated her issue with full transparency is more of a control thing. Her feeling like I act like a dad to her was a big hangup in our M. She thinks I'll drive myself (and her) crazy looking for 'something' I can use against her. I admit the old Tarheel probably would have done that.
You can put all the rules, regulations, no contact letters, no facebook, get rid of old love letters, pictures, and on and on and on and on into hoping your wife will come around......
The fact will always remain that unless your wife WANTS to willingly by choice do those things (and they WILL do them by choice willingly without prodding when you let go completely).. you are just wasting time trying to make her do things to prove something...
Tarheel.....
In my opinion you can't force or pressure someone into doing something and have it last if it isn't really what they want to do....
This is being proven again by you vs the vets trying to advise (pressure) you to do what they think is correct.....
I think we need to let you go and do it your way because that is quite honestly what you are doing anyway.... You are doing the same thing to the vets on here that your wife is doing to you.. Promising one thing and doing another....
Tarheel, I have to imagine that at *some* point eventually W would get over OM, even with continued contact. I can't imagine that there's any research that says that the chemicals that Starksky and others reference go on indefinitely. Just doesn't make sense to me, that would mean that no one gets over a broken up relationship if they happen to have contact with that person. What does that say for all the divorced couples who have continued contact due to kids? They never get over each other? Granted, I get an affair is a bit different because of the intensity of it. But I don't think that an affair creates any different 'in love' chemicals than any other relationship. H and I had a very intense courtship, I doubt he's feeling anything different with OW than he felt with me. Has someone really proven that there's a special affair chemical that never, ever dies as long as there's contact?
Having said all that, I think the core issues are twofold: 1). I believe continued contact will drag out any reconciliation attempts. The feelings will take longer to die and that leaves less space for feelings for you to grow. Just like any break-up, if you continue to be around the person it's much harder to get over. 2). There's definitely a HIGH risk that they will fall back into a relationship as long as they are in contact. Feelings will likely continue to linger for a longer time than if they had no contact. And as long as their are feelings there's high risk for things to reignite.
So the question is, are you willing to live with likely a much longer reconciliation and take the very real risk of her getting reinvolved with OM? Only you can answer that, obviously. As you can imagine, I'm grappling with the exact same questions.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
What is your truth? Be true to yourself...in a real & authentic way.
For me, I KNOW without any question that I have zero desire to have ANY type of contact or communications with Ms. Wonka's OW. You can see that clearly in reading my thread over in the Big D forum.
This isn't being asked as an excuse- it's a question I'm looking for an honest answer for.
No, I have not seen a successful reconciliation as long as OM was in the picture.
I have been active on the board for a little over seven years, and I can honestly say I do not remember ever reading of a stitch where a WAW who was in an A gradually eased out with OM b/c her feelings for the LBH were stronger than for the OM. I have seen cases where the A eventually fizzled out. But let me say this to you and to the others who thought maybe it might work out after the A fades out over enough time. Just b/c an A ends does not mean the WAW will want to have anything to do with the LBH who waited around to get whatever leftovers he could. She will have a big issue of lack of respect for him.
First of all, she doesn't respect him b/c she had an A. Secondly, she doesn't respect him if he repeatedly compromises his integrity to get her back. And when she doesn't respect him, she is not attracted to him.....and therefore will likely not return to the M out of love for him.
Tarheel, how many times has your W "said" something that never transpired? How many times have you been set up, just to have another heartbreak? It is easy to tell the MC she's willing to do this & that, but come show down.....it will be a different story. She won't deliver.
Yes, I support transparency b/c I know how easy it would be to backslide into that secret place again. I know the temptation, the depression, the loneliness, missing the thrill & connection with the OM.....while feeling nothing for the H. Sure she could find some way to contact OM but if she's sincere about ending the A, she will work with transparency. The transparency is not just to assure the H, but to help the W stick to her resolve. Giving an account, as it were, goes a long way when one is truly trying to turn things around in their life. If she is being truthful and really has ended things with OM, she won't protest to transparency, and in fact, should welcome it in order to prove she has nothing to hide. As long as she wants to keep her "privacy" and have her little secret life apart from you.....it can't be successful.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
