What to do when an EA involved?

[Hoju]

Ok thanks the crying has stopped so i assume she has gone to sleep. I guess i really blew it again tonight probably my last chance to save this too.

[pilot]

While I am not completely familiar with your situation, I do know that in most cases, one incident does not doom you, nor save you. Everything is measured in baby steps. You may or may not have missed an opportunity for a positive. No point in worrying about what has already happened. Worry about what you know and what you can do in the future. You know your w was worked up and upset. You know she seemed to be reaching out. If she is really having second thoughts, she will approach you again. But do not expect it. Keep working on your own 180s, your own GAL, and your own PMA. Be the person she wants to be with...not just a person she is forced to be with. Big difference.

Good luck!

[25yearsmlc]

I promise to read your whole thread before going into deep details, b/c how can I give you specific advice without knowing ALL the facts?

Yet I feel compelled to address something simple, & upfront now, before going any further.

(See Notes below)

I've been following the guide for a little less then a month now, giving space, detaching and GAL. It's been going very well for me and my wife has noticed, she often says why didn't you do this years ago.

B/c you have had an awakening now (and though you cannot tell HER this, the fact remains that it IS better late than never), and you are glad to finally be making the changes you always needed and wanted to make - to be the man YOU want to become, the man she deserves, the man you were meant to be...


However, when ever we talk it always comes down to the same thing, she doesn't want to give us another chance because she doesn't want to give up the OM she has fallen in "love" with.

Is there anything else I can do to stop the EA from becoming a PA and ruining our marriage forever?

The REAL reason you cannot stop her from anything is b/c you do not control her OR him. You only control you.

Oh Sure, SURE!! You've heard that 100 times already. And yet...still, a part of you, deep down resists that statement....but when you REALLY GET THIS ---that you only control YOU - and that you are responsible for you and your actions (& you cannot blame HER or OM or anyone else for the choices YOU make)

your life will startle you at first...perhaps even terrify you. But in time you will feel EMPOWERED -- b/c you & you alone will be in charge of your life and your happiness.

And that's how it was always supposed to be.


I'm guessing no as the first scoop of ice cream is always better and more interesting then the last.

I don't see the value or truth in that^^^ "proverb", and probably would dismiss it as shallow, though I know you meant it to be light hearted.

I say Familiarity often breeds COMFORT, not always contempt. When I dated OMs while sep, sure, there was SOME excitement in how the OM might kiss or hold my hand or dance...

but there was also a yearning for the man who KNOWS me better than any other man. Who knows the music I love, the dance move I cannot make ever since my knee gave out, the dance move I LOVE to make, the foods I crave, the films I thick are tacky, versus erotic, ETC I yearned for the man to KNOW me.

I met some good men out there, and that was encouraging b/c I learned that they are out there. I still "have it" and I would not be all alone if we were to divorce. So I'm married today by CHOICE. I was not trapped or stuck....and that makes it a lot sweeter for me.

AND in truth my h and I are very well suited for each other. I learned that a long time ago but dating OMs mostly reinforced that.
And fwiw, I did not sleep with any of them though I was presented with the opportunity and was at times, tempted.

It's complicated, especially for women. Maybe if I'd been drunk and met someone at a bar or on a business trip (& the odds of that are ALMOST nil, but hey, in theory, sure...)

but like most women over 40, it takes a certain level of comfort AND yes -familiarity and Trust, to be alright in that intimate a situation. I've had children, and there are pregnancy stretch marks...you get the picture.

So don't trivialize what it would likely take for her to do that.

And now, moving on...to the rest of your thread...

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for your comment sandi, I'll look forward to any advice you can offer.

Just so I know, so far I've counted FOUR different threads started by you...then abandoned, which is odd and which makes it SO HARD for us to follow your story, or advise you well.

Are there any more out there? And can you stick to just ONE thread?

When it gets too long, you can begin a "sequel" but it'll be much easier for us to follow and help you...okay?

And don't feel judged. When I first came here I didnt' know how to start a thread so I jumped into other people's threads and "hijacked" them, which is a no no.

So, stick to one and until you tell me otherwise OR until I figure it out, I'll assume this is it, okay? Let me know if I'm wrong (Unless I figure it out all by myself!)

I'm 28 and my wife is 27 we have been together 10 years and married for only 2. I've always felt we had a very healthy relationship, we would do a lot of things together, with friends and with both our families. Shortly after we got married we tried to have kids and found out I have poor sperm and it would be unlikely to conceive naturally. We tried ivf and after that failed we found out that my wife might have issues as well. While we waited for the test results to come back my wife began going out more and started drinking (something she hadn't done while we were trying). About a month ago she told me she no longer loved me and that she was starting to have feelings for someone else. I don't know if she ever said the D word but it is definitely implied. She has since moved out of our bed and into the guest room as well as stopped speaking to me and avoids me as much as possible.

I'm not innocent in all of this I've been an avid gamer my entire life and often would put games before her needs. I realize now I have an addiction and quit immediately after realizing how bad things had gotten.

What would SHE SAY IF SHE WERE HERE and told us, privately, what HER concerns or complaints about the marriage were? Do your best on this occasion to mind read but base it as much as possible, on things she has actually told you.

AND OF THOSE COMPLAINTS --

which ones, if any, would YOU like to work on?

I've been trying to follow the rules and just give her space but I feel her drifting further away with no reason to ever return.


Why do you say that You offer her "no reason to return"? Really? Be fair to her and be fair to yourself.

She is very needy Meaning what? I suggest you read The Five Love Languages by Chapman and tell us what HER love languages are and what YOURS are....do you give love to her in ways she wants/needs to receive it? Some of us miss each other.

My h's love languages (LLs) are a words of affirmation (compliments) and touch. I'm a quality time together and acts of service woman. SO I need from him TIME and GESTURES of love or service (change the oil in my car, fix something)

and he is an MD and lacks time for us and for a lot of time consuming gestures....so we have to work at this more than some.

But I know he loves me in HIS WAY.

Sometimes the gift of love is not "wrapped" how we like it, but it's still a gift. Do you know what I mean?

Here's an Example...I do stand up comedy as an avocation, ie. a passionate hobby. H goes to my shows and he has a good loud laugh - and he laughs at my jokes....which he has heard 300 times.

For ME, that is showing me love. It's not romantic, per se. But I feel it and I appreciate it. It warms my heart.

It's a little example, but do you get it? He is sending me love in a way I DO receive it, and I give him back massages -- things he LOVES getting from me, so I give them to him.

As superficial as the book seemed, it was a good teaching point for us. I highly recommend it and would add ONE caveat...no one love language is morally superior to another. Okay? We simply differ in how we show love AND how we receive it. i receive love the most in some ways that I don't necessarily always give it. Though h loves Getting words of affirmation. he could be more effusive with his words to me, to tell you the truth. He LOVES getting back massages but after 3-4 minutes of giving them, he's down for the count, if you catch my drift...



so I'm not sure if space is the right method or if i should try to support her and beg her to give us a chance, she is a good person and doesn't want to see me hurt.

No begging, really ever. Supporting her is not the same as begging for another chance. But more on that later....I still have another thread to read! Please tell me if this is the last one!

hey I don't mean to harp about the thread count...i hijacked a lot When i was first here.. I'm really just trying to figure out where to spend my time posting to you most effectively, okay?

Carry on, and do NOT lose hope. AND HECK YES There is hope.

[25yearsmlc]

Don't cherry pick the parts of what she said so you can avoid looking at what stings. You'll miss important clues and "intel". SO consider yourself on a reconnaissance mission and you need more information (evidently) so you know what to focus your efforts on.

The parts that sting, USUALLY (not always but usually) mean something is in there worth really studying.

She said she can't understand why you are so blindsided by this. TO ME, that means she has sent you many "SOS"s" and sent red flares into the universe but to no avail.

Why do you believe she said that?

[25yearsmlc]

Having an exceptionally rough night so figured i'd post instead of doing something stupid.

Wife never came home last night which i've been slowly coming to terms with, giving space and such. However when she came home today her clothes were caked in mud. She never ever wanted to go camping with me much less ever get dirty, i couldn't even convince her to come to a cottage with sime friends because she was so insecure about going without makeup and pooping. Is it possible she has really changed or is this just a front to impress someone else?

I know it doesn't matter and i can't change her actions but writting this is all that is stopping me from going upstairs and asking about her weekend and where she was.... Also asking why she never wanted to do anything with me.

You said you were "an avid gamer who put gaming ahead of her" and that you were a "crappy husband'....so aren't these^^^ comments also things SHE could say about you?

Don't get mad at me for pointing this out. Be empowered.

YOU CAN CHANGE YOU.

[25yearsmlc]

We sat down last night and divided up all the assets, everything went really well.

When we were done and looking at our entire life split up on a single page my W broke down ran to her room and started crying for almost an hour. I took the time to go for run as she had closed her door i assumed she didn't want to see me.

I think I probably should have gone to console her, as that would be a 180. However, it also violates many of the rules.

Poor Sandi...she took the time one day to assemble some GENERAL Guidelines from the books, and then people read them as if they are gospel and apply to ALL and are written in stone. THEY ARE GUIDELINES....now there are people like you who cling to them as if they are a magic potion and if you do each step JUST SO you'll get the magic answer....

they're just well based GENERALIZED gems of advice based on the solution based philosophies of MWD, the author. HAVE YOU READ THE ACTUAL BOOKS? I missed where you answered that question...but you cannot skimp on this or use the "Study guide" in lieu of the real thing. Read the dang books.

and in there, in her assembled guidelines WE like to call "newbie rules" she even says NOT all of these apply to all situations. Use your best judgement.


Often in our relationship I would simply ignore her when she would cry, I know it was wrong

THEN DO NOT DO IT ANYMORE. Period.


but when it was almost a daily occurrence and after so many years of trying to console her, I just became desensitized to it.

= You stopped caring or putting effort into it...Wow, ouch...how lonely for her.

[25yearsmlc]

I think I'm going to break DBing and go for a hail mary pass. Time has run out and when she is gone in a week it's all over anyway.

Stop and think. You've rushed thru this so fast and in such a fragmented way I cannot even tell if you have read the books AND talked to a DB coach ----or just thought you "might" -- or what.

But SEE MY TIMELINE and SLOW DOWN. What is the rush???!! I was here for 2 YEARS and didn't freak and we had kids so there was MORE fear and pressure on me...

come on...and PS, outside of football, wth is a Hail Mary pass in this? You are alarming me

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks again bdub, i beat the snot out of my pillow last night and it did help relieve a lot of the anger and stress. I'll try the nail thing tonight, that sounds like a great and entertaining stress reliever.

Just some updates/journaling
We met with the real estate agent yesterday about listing the house. W seemed noticeably upset about having to sell I think she was really hoping i would decide to keep it. I asked for 24 hours to make my decision in hopes W will come around. Real estate agent expects the house to sell quickly within 2 weeks, it's going to move really fast when i give the green light.

So, SLOW IT DOWN....good grief, you do have the right to say you want to look into seeing if you can refinance (or buy her out or whatever and STALL for a bit)...

I tried to act cool and collected with the house sale and kept my emotions out of it. When W asked how I was doing with it I simply said "I love the house and don't want to sell but I can't reasonably keep it"


Next time stop the part about "BUT" b/c that usually negates and contradicts whatever you said just before. Keep that in mind btw.


, I then went to watch tv. I'm not sure how to handle 180s in this situation, on one hand my past self would have done the same thing become emotionally unattached to the situation and gone off to distract myself from the issue, on the other hand i can't become an emotional train wreck and start begging her to stay again so we can keep the house.

Must you "beg her to stay" in order to keep the house? You just said you could swing it for awhile...

I've done very well with my 180s and my W has noticed and said "i've seen flashes of the life i always wanted". However she still doesn't want to give us another try, i'm not sure why.

you are "not sure why"???? I can tell you.

BECAUSE SHE FEARS YOU WILL REVERT TO THE OLD NEGLECTFUL H, AS SOON AS SHE TAKES YOU BACK....this is not rocket science. This part is simple and clear to me.

She does seem to still care deeply for me and is concerned about how I'm feeling, I assume it's not out of love but just the concern you would have for a long term friend.

You'd be 100% wrong to "assume it's not out of love"....good grief, you have lived together your whole adult life.

You're saying You really were that lousy a man to her - that she'd want to toss all that, so fast?

Okay if you say so...

[25yearsmlc]

I really wish WAW's would think of the pillows before they decide to pull stunts like this.

She just texted me about getting back to the realtor of my answer. After a few texts back and forth that almost sounded like she might be asking for more time (but not wanting to tell me) i said go a head and tell the realtor we are ready to list.



she was perhaps giving you a signal...and you didn't want to... what??, RISK her saying "no it's not a signal" -- so YOU crushed HER olive branch, and went ahead to push for the sale?

I can't tell if it's your fear or your wounded pride or both, but you are NOT letting the best part of you make decisions...too bad for both of you


Should I ask W if she thinks there is any chance of R and let her know I would be willing to hold onto the house if she just wanted some time to work things out on her own?

Tell her YOU would like to "try and keep the house if you can swing it, for several reasons" (be vague at this point so you don't feel too "emotionally exposed")

but it SO sounds as if you want to slow this down and she might too...

don't rush this b/c your afraid of having our ego bruised again. And I say that knowing it has been hurt. But it'd be a lot worse to wonder, forever, if you had let your pride and anger push you and her into a divorce NEITHER of you seems sure of...