Dealing with WAW part 5

[pilot]

Thanks sandi. I got what you meant about dropping the rope vs. filing D. And it does make sense, as it is much easier to file later vs try and take a filing back.

Having kids definitely does make limiting contact difficult. I suppose cutting out all family dinners, outings, etc. is doable. But even then not completely. For example tonight we have a 'new parent' bbq and football game for my S5 school which we will both be attending. Plus both kids start soccer in a week and I am positive we will both be there for all practices and games. I suppose it is still a way of showing my good side while at the same time having none of the negative blowback from trying to arrange time together.

Thanks again sandi...

[25yearsmlc]

My answer was directed at your idea of filing for D in order to get unstuck. My advice is not to file for a D to break the cycle. I would drop the rope before deciding to go straight to D.

When I read back over my post, I could see it might not be clear what I was saying. And I saw a typo, which should have said I do NOT recommend going completely dark b/c of the children. But dropping the rope could work. It is better than divorce.

Absolutely^^^.

25yrs and I usually agree about most things. I think we each give advice from the perspective of our own personal experiences or what we've observed in others (as most people do). Being a WAW, I may be less tolerant toward the WAS.......?

I LIKE posting along with sandi b/c I think you'll get different perspectives without a sense of competition or an adversarial discussion. She's a valuable resource and I always love reading her suggestions. Note that we usually DO agree on the big issues. The only somewhat consistent difference in approach is with the WAWs b/c I think with a h who is an MD and a workaholic, I know what it feels like to be a neglected wife. I DID consider being a WAW about 20 years ago, but came out of that time on my own. More about that later.

I'll describe how I saw my life then, (and to some extent I still see it that way) but I'm not sad about my life now. I THINK Pilot's wife would relate to much of this...

I'm Not whining or saying I had it so much harder than others. I am explaining another point of view. And how it felt back then.

Anyhow, my H was NOT intending to be a physician when we married, so it's not as if we knew ahead of time what was coming.

I don't think we really knew what it'd be like to have Relentlessly long hours, for so many years. When h was on call it was even worse.

He'd work his butt off (and possibly felt like a martyr "working FOR the family", or telling himself that). I recall counting the hours he'd spent at the hospital one week and it was close to 90. That isn't counting the studying he did while at home either. And not a rare week. Just one of the many with insane hours.

I WAS ALONE all those nights. H was "working" So he was AWOL, awol when I won an award, he'd miss me performing onstage, missedmost of the biggest court argument I ever had (went to the Supreme Court) and I got myself to the hospital for childbirth, (H was on call. What are the odds?) AND when I had pneumonia, and when I herniated a disk.

I felt I was raising our kids alone, like a single parent -but one who can't date.

That's a lot of lonely nights for a young woman in her prime... and the next day IF my h did get to come home, he'd be exhausted and need to sleep...

And these hours and days includes all holidays (at one point he'd been on call in the hospital 9 Thanksgivings in a row, missed many Christmases or Christmas Eve, and New Years, and I mean MANY of them)....and it was unrelenting, and it lasted for years....
Our son was 8 weeks old when medical school began...I was in law school and then worked full time, with 2 of our kids.

For a lot of years there was a significant imbalance in the division of labor...that's just a fact. (Hiring a housekeeper even twice a month really does reduce stress, if you can afford it.)

Then to have h arrive home in a tense mood or to see him glance around the home for flaws (just as his training taught him to look at the monitors in an operating room--searching for problems/errors, flaws) well that does not belong in a marriage or family.

It just really feels lousy when you were working a full day at a hard job and then taking care of the kids, making dinner, bathing them, and wanting to talk to your bff. But When you yourself have been lonely and stressed with the kids, and your own job,

and your spouse finally arrive home -NOT to assist you with dinner, or give you a break with the kids, (or the option of either), or even to really ask about your day, b/c he is so exhausted that he literally falls asleep at the dinner table. OR he's irritable...so NOT rewarding. We rarely had date nights, needless to say b/c when he was free and "awake enough", the kids needed to get to know HIM. Our older d was afraid of him til she was 5, b/c she did not know him. (That's a quote from her back then. Heartbreaking).

I honestly wondered how long I could hang in there, and if it was always going to be this hard, but if it's not always going to stink, when would it improve? Can I make it til then?

Add to that the stress of us both being in the military with kids, AND me having to go to war in Iraq. A free floating angst surrounded me 24/7, for a few years.

So, after years of that a very handsome, (as in, Kevin Costner at age 30 HANDSOME) & attentive single man joined my office...

Yes I gave an Affair some thought. At the time, I was lonely and felt neglected, and I saw no end in sight. I rationalized my desire to have an affair, although it did not come about.

Pilot, In some ways, sandi and I had very similar scenarios in that our needs were NOT being met by our h's by a long shot, and an OM was lurking...
And yet neither of us left our marriages, and neither of us slept with OMs.

I confided in some close friends and sisters, and they'd ask the real questions, like "how will your self image be affected if you want to 'date' while you're married?", or "what will your kids' faces look like when you tell them someone else will be their 'dad' now"? I mean those are show stopping questions.

Her h learned of her EA and mine did not. I can't say what Sandi would have done if no one ever found out her plans....but If my h had learned of it AND IF he reacted in anger or with a wounded ego that lashed out at me, that would have been the straw that broke the camel's back.)

If h tried to shame me, or expose me, I truly believe I'd have filed. Why? 2 reasons, first, I already justified my attraction to the OM at the time AND 2) B/c once it's out, I'd have to justify it more, which corners one into making a move toward divorce OR saying you were wrong.

Since I felt so lonely and in effect, rejected (meaning I felt less important than his patients) I think I could have divorced him then and justified it, especially if he threw it in my face. But my guess is he'd have reacted better than that, but he'd have been very hurt. Anyhow, in my case, an affair could not last long UNLESS it was going to end my marriage.

Meaning, a casual 'physical only' affair, is not something I personally can do. So an affair on my end, that lasts more than a few months would likely lead to a divorce and breaking up my family.

As that reality sank in, I went to the chaplain and a shrink and worked out how NOT to have an affair. (I began doing theater b/c it felt passionate, was a passionate outlet for me that was also safe for my marriage).

I imagine that Pilot's wife could relate to a lot of this^^>.... His campaign's hours were a bit like training in medical school or the residency. At the end of the campaign, there was a big disappointment for both.

Then Pilot had an injury and endured a long recovery, during which time I assume his wife took on all or most of the childcare, household chores and finances, the other family duties and everything else that was important to her that was ongoing...as for HER NEEDS? Not met by a long shot for a long time.

Pilot has touched briefly on an issue related to the medications he took, which I sense means some mediocre (or worse) treatment to his wife. I think Pilot said he may not have been himself...but his references to it are short and vague.

That^^^ is a lot for a woman to endure. Not sure what her love languages are, but my guess is her tank was empty for some time.

Pilot entered the marriage as a strong confident financially successful guy. A "provider and protector"... That may be what she expected him to be for good. When she saw the changes in him, no doubt it confused and concerned her. She did tell him she was not happy.

In sum, His wife did more & supported more than many wives could or would. (And for a longer time than Pilot has endured his present ordeal.)

That is my take on the way she came to want out of the M.

Pilot says once upon a time they were very much in love and connected at a deep level. If that is true for her as Pilot says it is for him, those memories and feelings WILL resurface in time,

IF there are no more painful experiences are laid over them.
That is why she is sending mixed signals, in my opinion. She's confused b/c she HAS mixed feelings.

I'm also not convinced that Pilot has a grip on his present course of action. What what 180s and changes HE wants to make, and is working on?

What is different about him now, and thus what would be different in a marriage to him NOW?

The frequent questions about dating OWs or see other women and just the comments about how he so values their attention, is hard for me to hear, given the number of nights I've spent alone (NOT even counting the deployments overseas, for almost a year).

Being without a partner is not the same as being alone. And being alone is not hell. Pilot, you seem to defend yourself a lot and deflect, rather than just hearing the feedback and processing it. That Just makes changing your ways a lot harder b/c so much energy is going into putting up the walls.


IDK, I am not trying to speak for her. Just bear in mind that we come from opposite sides of the fence in our own stitches, and realize there may be variation in what we say...or how it's said.

I think getting our points of view WHEN they differ, may confuse you, but take what you can from each, find what feels authentic or balance the approaches. At least you'll have covered a lot of bases.

[Gotan74]

I like that you are thinking of using cation with pursuing your W. I am doing that but still I have no clue what she is thinking. I think you have to remember she fell in love with you so what were you doing then.

[pilot]

Extremely disappointed in my W tonight. It was a cookout/football game at my S5 new school for new parents. We decided we would both take the kids. The game started at 7, the cookout at 6. I got my times mixed up and realized it on the way. Instead of meeting her at the school at 6, I ended up arriving at her place (close to the school at 445. Ironically I thought I would be late...but a drive that takes an hour in the morning took just over 30 minutes. At any rate, I decided I would just go to her place, as she had picked the kids up from school and I had a change of clothes for them. She was just pulling out, and said she was off to a fast food place with a playground. She was going to sit there for an hour. Whether or not she was meeting someone there (she jumped on her phone as she was pulling out) or was still not wanting me to come inside her place, I had no idea. I did have to pee really bad, and asked if I could go in. She tried to refuse, and I said if you dont want me to go in, that is fine, I just really need to pee. She made a dramatic sigh about having to get out of the car and how she did not want to turn it off, and now she has to get the kids out. Apparently I cannot get the keys and go pee on my own. When we were inside, she told me to use the kids bathroom, and waited outside the door. Then herded me out. Wow...

Anyways, back to why I was disappointed. My S5 was having a blast at the game. W had already said she did not want to stay long. Ok, fine. But during the 1st quarter she kept saying how S3 was tired and wanted to go home. I did not sense that, but ok. Finally after hearing it enough, I said ok, we can go. We did drive separately but the thinking was it would be easier to watch to quick moving kids in a crowd if we were both there. S5 was devastated. he was crying and super sad about leaving. He was having such a good time. I asked W if she was going out or going home. Cause if she was going home, she could take S3 and I would get him after the game. She said she was not going out but had errands to run (8pm Friday evening?). S5 was still a mess. I said I would keep them both here so the kids can have fun. And I did.

I was not upset that she had plans. Gotta figure she would. I was bothered that whatever it was could not wait at least another hour for the sake of the kids, especially S5 who was loving his first football game.

[Ss06]

That is disappointing, Pilot. It's almost like she was agitated and anxious. I wonder what that was all about.

What I'm confused about is if she had just simply said, "Hey, i'm not sure I can stay the whole game, is it cool if I leave both kids with you and jet out at half time?" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't argue, right? I mean, it's like she was trying to hide but why? Just say what you want, woman!

The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?

[Gotan74]

It's the selfish behavior that they don't even see. My W when she did this kept saying kids are resilient what does that mean!

[Ss06]

It's the selfish behavior that they don't even see. My W when she did this kept saying kids are resilient what does that mean!

It means that the kids will bounce back from her decision to not work on the marriage.

My H said the same thing.

[Maybell]

My H said it too. It's a cop-out. Like small children should have to be more adaptable than the grown-ups whose job it is to protect them. Gah.

Loving parents don't demand that of their children except in extreme cases. Illness and accident. They don't inflict it on purpose rather than seek solutions.

[pilot]

That is disappointing, Pilot. It's almost like she was agitated and anxious. I wonder what that was all about.

What I'm confused about is if she had just simply said, "Hey, i'm not sure I can stay the whole game, is it cool if I leave both kids with you and jet out at half time?" I'm pretty sure you wouldn't argue, right? I mean, it's like she was trying to hide but why? Just say what you want, woman!

The "errands" thing is hilarious actually. That's when I hit the post office and the drug store, you?

I cannot mind read, but 2 possibilities stick out. One (the less likely) is that someone is/has been staying with her. I do not really think this...but it would be a reason to keep me out. The other, more likely is that she does not want me to see how much she has spent in her new place because she is still asking me to pay her cc bills. And she is afraid if I see she is buying new tvs and furniture, i would tell her she does not need money from me. Of course, there is always the possibility she just does not want me in there.

I absolutely would not have cared if she said she wanted to leave early. She could have told the kids that too so they would understand. but to tell me early on she does not want to stay long and then try to pawn her leaving off as the youngest is tired and not accept taking him so S5 can continue a night he was really enjoying was just crappy of her.

IF...I was a mind reader, or someone else had typed this, I would tell them that W was probably hiding something. What, we do not know. But there was something she did not want me to see because she did not want me to react. And that was probably because she was having mixed feelings, or uncertain about her feelings. She did not want to burn a bridge, but she also did not want to alter her current lifestyle.

Who knows...

[igit]

Pilot, sorry to hear about the wifes actions. I don't know but looking at it from same kind of behavior with my w. Since they have emotionally checked out for the time being. I think they feel uncomfortable being around us in.public.I think your w is struggling, she knows what she is doing is wrong, I am sure she is a good woman at heart and she may not feel she deserves you. I know that sounds crazy but I think there maybe some self esteem issues. You seem like type A personality and she may not feel like she is your equal. Just a thought, have you had a DB coaching session yet. I am about do for another one. As far as not letting you in apartment , who knows maybe place was a wreck and she was embarassed, dishes were dirty. You are having fun at game w boys and she might just not understand why you are doing so well. Hang in there Pilot, tomorrow is a new day