Feels like an eternity (Mindsin - part. 3)

[25yearsmlc]

Regarding my R with the woman I met online

It turned out that she had gotten attached to me emotionally and was hoping we could connect on a romantic level. After I had told her that I had no interest, she told me she was hurt and that she would cut off contact with me. I wished her good luck in her life.

I told my wife what happened and she replied sarcastically and condescendingly, "So she was just counseling and sharing her experiences with you -- at least that's what you communicated to me. Riiiiiight"

Do you see why she said this? Do you understand that to HER< this is more of your old self?

You say you don't "Love" the OWs, so um, I guess you just like having them around you like before....

So all she sees is more of the same, (except now you throw in your indignation about HER "cheating" with OM),

whom you assume she's cheating with, while YOU Post online to other women.

This is so wacky....

[25yearsmlc]

Ouch, I celebrated W's 40th birthday and our 15 yr anniversary. Oh well, not a LOT of damage done, the anniversary was awkward but we got through it and we actually had fun with the boys.

I don't mean to undermine what a DB coach said, but I feel somewhat strongly that if the marriage produced children, that should be acknowledged. I think the kids feel better about their existence

b/c I KNOW my oldest two kids both asked if I felt that having them, was the reason for our marital strife.

TO which I replied, "God no. Having you guys is why we work at trying to stay to together!"

Anniversaries are reminders for them of the positive impact they've had on us. Truly, if the only way I could have those children in my life, was to go thru this entire ordeal, I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. Like sending a picture of them with a note saying something along the lines of "It's still worth remembering", or "we did something right!" etc. And nothing romantic in it (that's pursuit).

Just food for thought.

[25yearsmlc]

I sent an e-mail to my W this morning thanking her for being so accommodating to me (Sunday). I continued and said that she has always been a good wife to me in that regard, and has always been accommodating to my needs (which isn't exactly true, but she believes it is).


Why are you pursuing her like this? It's obvious that you are pressuring her for more R talk. IT's not crucial information about the kids or finances.... You don't even believe what you are saying so how on earth are you helping things?


I then went on to say that I should have communicated with her better but didn't because I was avoiding potential conflict scenarios, and I assumed (mind-read) what her responses would be. I said I recognized that this was not her fault and was very unfair to her.

but you still mind read and it's still unfair.

Are you going to stop it, or just talk more about how you "recognize it"?


Awaiting her response...

BINGO!...You are blatantly "awiating her response"

That is NOT what you should be doing with your time!

And what is there for her to respond to? It's MORE about you discussing your changes...(as opposed to making the changes)

Detach....

[mindsin]

You said you "had a backslide" when you reached out to her with your neediness. That's a fair assessment. But you kept on going...each time you contacted her was a step backwards - it's as if you were intentionally Undoing the DB work.

And now you seem upset and disappointed in the results. That's what baffles me. Why are you surprised? And please please do NOT forget the past!

I am certainly not intentionally undoing the DB work. You're right -- each time I contact her is a step backwards. But I'm caught in a bind a lot of times. I don't want to "go dark" on her. One of the major complaints she had about me in our marriage was the fact that I "clam up" and "shut down". I never share my thoughts and feelings with her. Even now, she hints to me that she wants me to open up to her. It's hard finding that balance. I struggle with it every day.

SIGH...at least state that you are doing this. Instead, You continue act as if she has TOLD you that she is "with OM tonight and tomorrow night' but she has never said that. And you have never asked her who she'll be with. But you paint her here, as some nastily slut who brazenly throws OM in your face.

Also I'm curious about what she called you after the 3rd or 4th time she caught you in an affair? (IF Anything) I think you called her a Wh--- or sl--. when you found out about the OM.

What about the first time she found out you paid for OW? Did she cry in front of you?

What did you tell her then, about the other women? Did you promise not to do it again? Did you blame her for not meeting your needs, or what? How did it "resolve" each time?

And didn't you just say this OM went back to his wife? How can that Not be a good thing? It sure isn't bad.

There is absolutely no way on God's green earth that it could be anything else than spending nights with the OM. Trust me on this. But you know what? Whether or not that's the truth is irrelevant because regardless of where she's going or who she's with, I should not be focused on that.

I did not call her a wh--- or sl-- when I found out about the OM. She did cry in front of me the 1st time she found out. Yes, I did tell her I wouldn't do it again and I did blame her for not meeting my needs. It never really resolved any of the times. We never fixed it. We simply let time pass and just didn't really talk about it. We were both so focused on raising our children. It seemed secondary. Obviously, that was the wrong approach.

The OM went back to live with his wife at least for that week when I was away. I don't know if it's temporary. I don't know if he's still there or not. I have no additional knowledge of their situation at this point.

Then ask her, or don't. But until you KNOW, at least admit you are assuming. Meanwhile, what are you doing to become the better catch?

Tell me how you treat her and why she'd choose you over OM, as you are today.

I think I treat her well. I respect her space and privacy and respect her time. I am very accommodating to her with regard to making sure the household is kept up while she works long hours and even when she spends days with the OM. My thought is simply that I am responsible for my household. I am more communicative and have become a better father -- paying close attention to the children's needs as well as their day-to-day (e.g. school, etc). I got a new haircut, which my wife complemented me on, and I am more physically fit/attractive than I was a couple of months ago.

At this point, I can't answer why she'd choose me over the OM, other than the fact that I am a great father to her children. She knows that I will do anything for them, and doesn't see the same with the OM with his children. He reluctantly moved back home with his W to help take care of the children while she tends to her ailing father. I don't know how much stock she puts into that, but if anything, I don't think it works against me. If it were me, I would have moved back home immediately. Children come first.

And the 180s and the GAL? Any NEW subjects or topics or skills coming up for you? Career growth?

Still the same 180s and GAL as before. I didn't engage in anything new. I really have no interest and time, to be honest. The only things that I'm thinking of considering is joining some kind of sports league (basketball, tennis). The job prospect that I thought died on the vine has actually come back into the realm of possibility as I received an e-mail from their HR just a few hours ago.

Did you look into the workshop in Philadelphia called "Essential Experience"? I think you'd benefit by an intensive 3.5 day workshop that forces you to look at yourself without rehearsing your answer, and figuring out how to change your life, regardless of what your w does/says/plans.

IT's very profound. Check out their website. Many other DBers have attended and all have said it's Life changing. Definitely faster than therapy once a week b/c that is good BUT can be fragmented.

I'm really concerned that you continue to be blind to your behavior as you seem unaware of the previous damage to her, which you caused.

Nothing your wife is doing, is being done in a vacuum. Put it all in context.
It'll make a lot more sense then, I think.

That's it for the moment. Good luck!

I did not look into that workshop, but I will definitely check it out. Thanks.

[mindsin]

I don't mean to undermine what a DB coach said, but I feel somewhat strongly that if the marriage produced children, that should be acknowledged. I think the kids feel better about their existence

b/c I KNOW my oldest two kids both asked if I felt that having them, was the reason for our marital strife.

TO which I replied, "God no. Having you guys is why we work at trying to stay to together!"

Anniversaries are reminders for them of the positive impact they've had on us. Truly, if the only way I could have those children in my life, was to go thru this entire ordeal, I'd do it all again in a heartbeat. Like sending a picture of them with a note saying something along the lines of "It's still worth remembering", or "we did something right!" etc. And nothing romantic in it (that's pursuit).

Just food for thought.

I can certainly see your point. In my case, I have made a lot of effort (early on) to point out to my W of what damage D will do to our children. "Think of the children!"

Also, she feels that one of the primary reasons why she didn't leave me earlier in the marriage was because of the children.

If sense that if I go that route (sending her a photo & note), it may backfire for two reasons.

1.) It will just be a painful reminder to her of the period in her life while her H cheated on her as she was tending to her young children.

There was one time she pointed out that she was at home, 8 months pregnant with our 1st child, and she was in pain. She called and texted me to know where I was, why I wasn't home yet, etc. In the back of her mind, she had a hunch that I was out with an escort. I called her back and gave her some BS excuse of where I was, what I was doing, etc. This hurt her deeply.

2.) It will simply be "more of the same" -- me trying to manipulate her into staying in the marriage for the kids' sake.

[MrBond]

"I have made a lot of effort (early on) to point out to my W of what damage D will do to our children. "Think of the children!""

The problem with you telling her that is that it made you the biggest hypocrite. Your situation is different from the others on here because of you were the one who betrayed her repeatedly and you were blessed to have her not leave you. You just didn't want to see it.

That's why you can't apply the same techniques the majority of posters on here are using.

[25yearsmlc]

What Bond said^^^...

Now that I reflect more, and based on your comments/Bond's I retract my advice about mentioning the kids. IN your situation, with the history you have, it's better not to remind her of how long her needs were unmet and how often she was lied to.

Back off from making so many demands and bringing up the R. It's way WAY too early for that. And your thread title about "seems like an eternity", well, look at MY signature block and you can probably imagine what I think of your timeline.

But maybe you can't....so I'll say it directly. 3 months is nothing. I've heard that for every year of misbehavior/misconduct, it takes one month of consistently different new behavior, to get your spouse to entertain the concept that you have changed.

So you have a ways to go - and I'm not sure you've really begun acting consistently different. So I'm not sure you can say the clock is yet ticking.

Make sense?

[mindsin]

MrBond, 25,

I agree with what both of you are saying.

Interestingly, the day the OM leaves out of state this month (26th) will mark the 3 month anniversary of BD. I know 3 months is nothing and I have a long LONG way to go.

My W never mentioned what she will do when he moves away. She has no intentions of moving down there with him (she says). For all I know, he may fly back every weekend just to see my W.

I know I'm supposed to not focus on the OM and that my W's decision to leave is independent of the OM. But it's just so hard to accept that concept because logically speaking, I know how much more the odds are stacked against me with OM in the picture.

Something my W said to me about 6 weeks ago may be worth noting -- "I know that you say there are solutions and that our marriage can be fixed. And maybe if [OM] didn't come into my life, I would have tried to fix it with you. But you have to understand, I'm really in love with [OM]. You have to believe me."

[25yearsmlc]

MAYBE, maybe she is...and then I'd tell myself, "so what?"

Feelings change all the time. If they didn't, then not many people would divorce.

Of course, do NOT argue about her feelings with her. Do not tell her that her feelings will change.

No matter how tempted you are, that will push her into his arm MORE...so don't challenge that. It just forcers her to defend it. Do you get that?

[u-turn]

mindsin - I have a similar situation as you, but maybe twice as long now. I have gotten impatient and have thought the same things as you - I'm sure.

At about 3 months in, she said the same things - I love him, I didn't think it was possible to love 2 men......

I was pushing at the time - thinking that was the right thing to do - we went to MC and everything. It didn't "fix" anything and it probably hurt the situation and timeline. Later she said, she just wasn't ready to change things, deal with it, even though she said she knew she wanted to. She was just not in the right mind frame.

I believe if I was giving her the space and time to work through things back then - as I am trying to now, we may be in a better place. The pressure was just doubling the problems and I really didn't understand or believe there was nothing I could do about the A. Only become a better person for me and potentially for us.