BTW, the thing with DB is that you need to change your strategy based on your situation. In your case LRT wouldn't necessarily work because YOU were the one that had multiple affairs. She has no reason to "miss" you or want to be with you because of that.
I see. What would you suggest MrBond? Maybe a little pursuit wouldn't hurt in this case. My DB coach even said a little pursuit is OK, because it would be a 180. If I just sprinkle it in gently (after multiple consecutive "good" days), it could help.
Her love language is acts of service. Thinking back, I realize that the more I give, the more she wants to give back (even now). Thoughtfulness is repaid with thoughtfulness. My love language is physical affection. She does not know about 5LL and I don't think I should tell her about it (way too soon) until she's hinted at possible reconciliation.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
BTW, the thing with DB is that you need to change your strategy based on your situation. In your case LRT wouldn't necessarily work because YOU were the one that had multiple affairs. She has no reason to "miss" you or want to be with you because of that.
I see. What would you suggest MrBond? Maybe a little pursuit wouldn't hurt in this case. My DB coach even said a little pursuit is OK, because it would be a 180. If I just sprinkle it in gently (after multiple consecutive "good" days), it could help. Soooooo, Your DB coach said some pursuit is OK b/c it would be a 180...and you want to know IF that's a good idea? IF YOUR DB COACH MAKES A SUGGESTION, TAKE IT. Don't shop around for disagreement with your coach.
All we ask is that you not "edit" what your coach says and to tell your coach the same things you tell US, so we are all on the same page. But we defer to the coach, when there is actual dispute. I don't think there is. In fact, I think we've been saying similar things the whole time!
You're the one who wants to insist that you "must" go LRT ---- b/c SHE had an affair. (nothing about your prior affairS...just her single one).
I continue to dispute that in your situation. I think you are looking for a method that requires the least risk to your ego. Seems to me with your past infidelities, your ego is probably the underlying cause of a lot of your problems today, and in the past. Plus, you have NOT tried other approaches with consistency OR enough time to justify going LRT on her at this point.
I don't see "Too much pursuit" as being your problem. Too many attempts to control her, YES, but not genuine changes in you, not sincere outreach to her, not deep reflections....
lots of resistance and lots of defensiveness in you. That's what I'm picking up, and the elephant in the room of course, the hypocrisy of your double standards.
Her love language is acts of service. Thinking back, I realize that the more I give, the more she wants to give back (even now). That^^ is called SUCCESS....OMG, follow up on that!!
Thoughtfulness is repaid with thoughtfulness. Yes, that ^^ is how it usually works. Maybe not when you were having your escorts but I'm sure you'll agree the escorts were about you, not your w. So, being kind is met with kindness. Minds, does that surprise you and if so, why do you believe that it was a surprise? What was your parents marriage like?
How was forgiveness modeled in your childhood and family?
My love language is physical affection. She does not know about 5LL and I don't think I should tell her about it (way too soon) until she's hinted at possible reconciliation.
I agree that you should NOT tell her about YOUR NEEDS now. I suspect she knows them b/c I think you've told her in so many ways that she failed to meet them (unless you agreed that your affairs were about YOU and your ego, and not about her)
But assuming she knew, still, it's VERY hard to believe that a woman would feel sexual or affectionate if she believes a man is cheating on her, let alone repeatedly.
And though you may believe she did not know of the multiple affairs, I can say with certainty that she picked up on your "outside interests" at the very least.
I am personally positive that she was neglected and felt that way, as every woman with a cheating h has so informed me. (Yes, every single one. No w has said "Oh h met all my needs and WE were so happy so I was shocked to see him cheating". She may be shocked b/c she thought more of her h, but I've never been told by a betrayed wife that the reason she was shocked was due to how "kind and attentive" her h was)
Safe to say that feeling neglected is no recipe for a woman to feel "in the mood". Underlying trust in our mate, increases our libido by 1000%.
Or to put it another way, doubting that our spouse has been or is being faithful to us, puts a dagger into the "loving mood" we might have had just hours before.
Sometimes it's fatal. Sometimes it's just a damn deep wound that festers, and sometimes, when we are lucky AND when we work very hard, it's a wound that heals...
**Keep doing your work. And that includes having a lot more patience.
You said your affairs went on for about 5 years, right? OR they ended 5 years ago?
Are you saying that 6 months or one year of her having an affair is "too long" for you to work on yourself? That You "must" file b/c she is cheating? What does your DB coach say about that?
I just want to be clear on your parameters. I don't really understand them at this time.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25 - Regarding the previous question about the LRT -- I reviewed the section in the DR book again last night. The heading is "REREAD THE LAST-RESORT TECHNIQUE" which immediately follows the section titled "WHEN S/HE WON'T END THE AFFAIR". This in on pages 215-217.
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but it seems to me that MWD is clearly suggesting to follow the LRT under this particular situation.
My DB coach said a little bit of pursuit in the right circumstances (i.e. after consecutive "good days") is OK as long as I'm careful and very mindful of her reactions. The LRT specifically says to avoid pursuit. So this is where my approach differs from a "pure" LRT.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
I continue to dispute that in your situation. I think you are looking for a method that requires the least risk to your ego. Seems to me with your past infidelities, your ego is probably the underlying cause of a lot of your problems today, and in the past.
While I agree with you about my past, I'll have to disagree with you regarding the present. If you had said this to me even a couple weeks ago, you would be correct. However, at this point, I have completely set aside my pride and ego. I just want to do what works.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I don't see "Too much pursuit" as being your problem. Too many attempts to control her, YES, but not genuine changes in you, not sincere outreach to her, not deep reflections....
lots of resistance and lots of defensiveness in you. That's what I'm picking up, and the elephant in the room of course, the hypocrisy of your double standards.
Agreed. I am working on that. I think I've actually made vast improvements just in the last 5 days.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
That^^ is called SUCCESS....OMG, follow up on that!!
Yes, that ^^ is how it usually works. Maybe not when you were having your escorts but I'm sure you'll agree the escorts were about you, not your w. So, being kind is met with kindness. Minds, does that surprise you and if so, why do you believe that it was a surprise? What was your parents marriage like?
How was forgiveness modeled in your childhood and family?
I think part of the problem is that I know how smart she is. Because of this, I get suspicious about everything she does. "What is she trying to do here?" is a question I ask myself every time she seems to be extra nice to me, or wants to spend time with me, etc. However, with that said, perhaps most of that is in my head, because I'M actually the person who is calculated and manipulative here, and I may be assuming that my wife also posesses those traits because of how smart and successful she is, how well she can read people, and how she always seems to be thinking three moves ahead with regard to everything in her life. It took a lot of calculated deception and manipulation for me to pull off 5 years of selfishness to fulfill my sexual addiction. I'm assuming the same with her, when historically speaking, she has never shown any proof of such.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I agree that you should NOT tell her about YOUR NEEDS now. I suspect she knows them b/c I think you've told her in so many ways that she failed to meet them (unless you agreed that your affairs were about YOU and your ego, and not about her)
I have told her exactly that (recently) -- that it was about me and not about her.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
You said your affairs went on for about 5 years, right? OR they ended 5 years ago?
Are you saying that 6 months or one year of her having an affair is "too long" for you to work on yourself? That You "must" file b/c she is cheating? What does your DB coach say about that?
I just want to be clear on your parameters. I don't really understand them at this time.
It went on for about 5 years (2006-2011).
I am not saying 6 months to a year of her having an affair is too long to work on myself. I have no intention of filing.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
"Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but it seems to me that MWD is clearly suggesting to follow the LRT under this particular situation."
No you are misinterpreting. Just because the section follows another, doesn't mean that you follow those steps in that particular order. 25 has been here awhile and you seem to enjoy thinking YOUR interpretation is correct.
" If you had said this to me even a couple weeks ago, you would be correct. However, at this point, I have completely set aside my pride and ego. I just want to do what works."
Just those last two sentences show how little you've learned and how much your ego is very much there. "I" just want do do what works" ... how selfish is that? You are still trying to figure out how to manipulate your W into loving you. You still haven't addressed HER hurt despite everything you say.
"Agreed. I am working on that. I think I've actually made vast improvements just in the last 5 days."
5 days? That's laughable. No habit that you've accumulated over a lifetime of doing, changes in 5 days.
"I'm assuming the same with her, when historically speaking, she has never shown any proof of such."
AGAIN it shows how little you've learned. You see it as "manipulation" on her part. Bottom line is that she wants a guy who treats her with respect. Being with someone who has had numerous A's in 5 YEARS shatters her self respect. You don't seem to understand the severity of that. You say you do and will still argue with us that you do, but it's obvious you don't.
"I am not saying 6 months to a year of her having an affair is too long to work on myself. I have no intention of filing."
But you seem to have every intention of implying she's a "slut" for wanting to be with someone who respects her. You seem to downplay that alot in your posts. Let's face it. That's how you view her right now because she has OM.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
No you are misinterpreting. Just because the section follows another, doesn't mean that you follow those steps in that particular order. 25 has been here awhile and you seem to enjoy thinking YOUR interpretation is correct.
From page 215 in DR...
"In Chapter 6, I wrote about the last-resort technique. Re-read that section (page 124), because everything I wrote there applies here as well."
I'd like to know your interpretation of that ^.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
Just those last two sentences show how little you've learned and how much your ego is very much there. "I" just want do do what works" ... how selfish is that? You are still trying to figure out how to manipulate your W into loving you. You still haven't addressed HER hurt despite everything you say.
I'm selfish because I want to follow a system that will improve my mental state and self-esteem, and also potentially get my wife back and keep my family intact?! You lost me there.
Originally Posted By: MrBond
5 days? That's laughable. No habit that you've accumulated over a lifetime of doing, changes in 5 days.
I said "I'm working on that" and that "I made vast improvements". I didn't say "I changed". I still have a long way to go.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Me: I just wanted to let you know how proud I am of you after getting that raise. Admittedly, I had mixed feelings when you told me on Monday due to our current circumstances. But deep down, I wanted nothing more than to give you a big hug and kiss!
It seems that you are finally calling the shots in your career and are poised to really take off. After everything you had to endure in your final years at [her old company], you deserve this.
Her Response: Thanks honey. I feel the same about your prospect [at the new company I'm about to accept an offer from]. I hope August is a good month for us, despite everything.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Just a little while ago, my WAW e-mailed me suggesting an overnight stay in a nearby tourist island (small beach town) for Labor Day weekend. I assume she meant with the family (+ 2 kids), but she wasn't specific. I highly doubt she meant just the two of us.
10 days ago, we had a conversation regarding an already-booked week-long vacation coming up in a couple of weeks. She said she didn't want to go for two reasons. First, heavy workload. Second, she feels weird given the circumstances and noted that she would feel uncomfortable being around my brother and SIL (they booked the same trip with us). She knows this was a trip that I was looking forward to, and she felt bad about not going. I was very understanding about her decision, and she thanked me for that.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
More of your control. She got a raise. Be happy for her. Period. You didn't like it because she would be more independent of you and your control.
You can't seem to get rid of that.
No. I didn't like it because the person who gave her the raise is the OM.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
