What do you hope to accomplish with the PI? -- I'm not taking a stand either way, but... - You can spend a lot of time and money determining what you already know to be true. (or strongly suspect) - What will you do with any evidence? Confront? Do you know how that usually works out? - Is it worth anything to you (legally speaking) in a D case in your state to establish adultery? - Do you know what the requirements are in your state to establish adultery?
Just saying that you should start coming up with a plan, Card.
Start thinking through how you will use your time and play this out.
Having evidence of an A may not turn out to be worth anything to you legally, and it can be a huge, painful distraction to doing something that can actually help your situation.
You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?
She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.
Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.
Me37, W30, S7 Married 10yrs 05/11/04 ILYBINILWY 22/09/13 Disc. OM1 26/09/13 Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14 Affair Confession 21/06/14
W and I share same apartment (for a few more days). W isn't pushing for D.
You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?
She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.
Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.
Me37, W30, S7 Married 10yrs 05/11/04 ILYBINILWY 22/09/13 Disc. OM1 26/09/13 Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14 Affair Confession 21/06/14
W and I share same apartment (for a few more days). W isn't pushing for D.
What do you hope to accomplish with the PI? -- I'm not taking a stand either way, but... - You can spend a lot of time and money determining what you already know to be true. (or strongly suspect) - What will you do with any evidence? Confront? Do you know how that usually works out? - Is it worth anything to you (legally speaking) in a D case in your state to establish adultery? - Do you know what the requirements are in your state to establish adultery?
Just saying that you should start coming up with a plan, Card.
Start thinking through how you will use your time and play this out.
Having evidence of an A may not turn out to be worth anything to you legally, and it can be a huge, painful distraction to doing something that can actually help your situation.
You most likely already know in your heart what the answer is going to be. Do you really need to see a photo of her having sex with OM before you decide to remove her from your friendship?
She already told you the ILYBINILWY speech. Does it really matter why? Your next reaction should have been "sorry you feel that way; hope that leaving me and our family will bring you the happiness you are lacking with me." Then go dark until she comes to you and apologizes for the pain and sorrow she caused for you. That might never happen but in the meantime you will be moving on with your life and improving yourself.
Right now you are her backup plan in case her OM doesn't work out. Your job is to yank the rug out from under this illusion and make yourself into someone she would be a fool to leave.
Me37, W30, S7 Married 10yrs 05/11/04 ILYBINILWY 22/09/13 Disc. OM1 26/09/13 Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14 Affair Confession 21/06/14
W and I share same apartment (for a few more days). W isn't pushing for D.
I officially signed the PI contract today. I'm not too worried about the money. Once we sell the house I will have no bills for a while.
A few responses and follow-up questions:
- I actually don't know in my heart what the answer is going to be. My best guess is that she's not, but everyone else thinks she is (and I do see the red flags, too). I don't strongly suspect that she's having an A. There are lots of red flags, but there's also some evidence that suggests she's not (she's going to church with me, she has invited me over once a week or so, it SEEMS like she's had reduced contact with OM the last 4 weeks). So I really have no idea what's going on. I don't know if I should be going dark or "testing the waters" occasionally. Today we had a light and breezy text conversation that reminds me of the texts that Thornton exchanged with his W in early July. Other days she blows off plans with me and D she previously agreed to in order to hang out with friends I'm not allowed to see.
- How do you guys normally see confrontations play out? The suspected OM also has a W and 2 kids. I would probably tell his W as I've heard that can help speed up the ending to the A. If it's happening, he's probably just using my W for sex (even if he thinks he's in love) and would possibly abandon the A if his W knew and threatened a D or something.
- I do not want to see a picture of them having sex and don't expect to. Surveillance will only be outside of buildings since I have no access or authority to plant cameras in her apt. So all I would potentially see, unless they have some type of publicly viewable sex, is hand holding, kissing, going to a hotel, staying late at her apt, or something. At least that's what I suspect. If they come to me with evidence, I will tell them I don't want to see any sex pictures.
- She did apologize to me 2 weeks ago. She said she's so sorry for doing this to me.
Emotionally I've been up and down, but mostly up (relatively) since I read DR. But my head is spinning about my sitch. I don't know if I should be going dark or testing waters. I do know I should be 180-ing, detaching, GAL and having no expectations. I have been a friend to her (without pursuing or initiating too many conversations) as others have instructed, but if she's having an A that would have to change. I would also want to make sure the OM is not spending time with my D.
Last edited by Card29; 08/22/1408:42 PM.
Me 38, WAW 30 D11 (former marriage) S2 T 8 years M 3 years BD 8/20/23 S 8/20/23
On a weekend trip with D, visiting with SIL (W's sister) and her H and son. My D2 is being really cute and smart, and all I can think of is how she deserves to spend time like this with both her mother and father. This is killing me right now
Me 38, WAW 30 D11 (former marriage) S2 T 8 years M 3 years BD 8/20/23 S 8/20/23
Had a convo with SIL, who has talked to WAW a few times in the last few weeks. She said WAW is excited about the apt and seems to have shut the door. Nothing I didn't know, and SIL hasn't read anything from DR, DB or any other marriage recovery system or service, but it still has brought me further down. I know, don't believe anything she says and less than half of what I see. I know my WAW is not totally happy. She has started seeing a counselor weekly for her depression.
Before she moved out she said it was so hard because we're best friends. This I do believe. We're the best friend either of us has ever had, we just haven't spent enough time together, especially the last 2-3 years.
Another memory I'm clinging to to remind me of how she felt was when I dropped her off at the airport for her France trip. She gave me a super warm goodbye at the airport. When I picked her up 2 weeks later she wouldn't even look at me. She will never convince me that there was nothing between us.
Me 38, WAW 30 D11 (former marriage) S2 T 8 years M 3 years BD 8/20/23 S 8/20/23
I know how you feel; my W has also tried to convince me that none of what happened in our marriage was real; that she never really was in love with me and all those photos/memories were just acting on her part. I know otherwise but it hurts nevertheless; like having a limb amputated.
I think that the pain we go through in this regard is similar to the pain and distress a loved one of someone with Alzheimer's goes through. You cannot help but see the person as they were when you look at your spouse, but the mind is gone and everything you once had with them might as well have never happened because they are unable to remember it.
For me, the happiest memories from our marriage were from when I was on leave from deployment in Iraq and my W and I were staying at a resort on the shores of Lake Issyk Kul in her country. A high altitude lake surrounded by mountains, like Tahoe but several times larger and even more beautiful. I know that those memories were not fake, and that once we were in love. Even if she refuses to acknowledge it, I know that it happened.
Me37, W30, S7 Married 10yrs 05/11/04 ILYBINILWY 22/09/13 Disc. OM1 26/09/13 Disc. STD from OM2 03/02/14 Affair Confession 21/06/14
W and I share same apartment (for a few more days). W isn't pushing for D.
I have very find memories of our beginning 10 years ago, and plenty of others over that time, but the best is probably this past fall. We had our best "us only" trip ever, our sex life was better than ever, I was in the process of really falling back in love with her after a long drought of feelings, and I specifically remember her saying: "this is the best spot we've ever been in". That was less than a year ago. At the end of 2013 she was itching for child #2, complimented me everyday (how I looked, how I sounded singing to daughter, piano playing, how I was doing at work). Then we don't spend more than a few minutes together in 2014 once our schedules went haywire, and now she thinks none of that happened. I refuse to believe her, and I can only hope and pray she "comes out of the fog". Even if she's having an A, I will fight for her until it's obvious she will never seek reconciliation. I don't need her for me to be happy, but us living happily together is the best case scenario, so that's what I'll pursue first, simultaneous to eliminating any codependency I have related to her.
An aside: we have strictly followed the rule of making our D sleep alone, but tonight I get to sleep with her since we're in a hotel room with only one bed. She is a sleeping ball in the middle of the bed with glow in the dark PJs. About to cuddle up to her!
Me 38, WAW 30 D11 (former marriage) S2 T 8 years M 3 years BD 8/20/23 S 8/20/23
