Keeping it real

[raliced]

Hi Zues,

For what its worth, I don't even think this is a question. You have to think of the safety and the well being of your children first. If you weren't separated and she did this, you would still limit her exposure to the kids, right? You can do your best to reassure her and make sure she has generous supervised visitation with them, but her feelings right now are not going to be rational no matter what.

I'm not sure what your relationship is with your In-Laws - but I would certainly reach out to them and make surethey understand that you view this as temporary situation until you are confident that your wife has regained her mental health. That may help a little.

Good Luck. You are in a difficult situation, but your kids need you to be a strong father and advocate right now.

[Ss06]

I am not a professional and I really feel like that's whose opinions you need the most right now but I will weigh in briefly.

I think that now is NOT the time for your wife to be alone let alone responsible for the children. There should be NO talk of OM or R or M or anything but getting her to a therapist consistently, becomes clean and sober and the health and care of the children. Those are the ONLY priorities. Her wanting the OM, her believing you're trying to take the children... none of that is an issue right now. I'd be careful to make your moves very obvious that you're NOT trying to disappear with the children because an accusation in that department could make your terrible situation worse.

Was there a social worker at the hospital? There should have been an inquiry about the children and whose care they are in. They are too young to be facing this.

Your wife wants to be home with the kids but I wouldn't want my kids around her until she is clean, sober and mentally stable. That is just not the case right now.

Attending a wedding after your wife's suicide attempt? I'm so confused by that.

[Zues126]

Following W's attempted suicide Friday she is fully recovered physically. She is expecting to return home Tuesday at which point she expected me to move out again or to stick around in the family room for a week or two if I thought it necessary to make sure things were ok.

I meditated on it long and hard and was willing to cooperate to a point. For all her issues she has always been a good mom and protectedthem from harm. Any impact her lifestyle makes doesnt seem as large as the consequences of starting a nuclear custody issue, having them out of her life and blaming me to the kids, etc. so i want to cooperrate, but also to keep an eye on the situation. Last thing i want is for kids to be hurt or ss to decide NEiTHER parent is safe!!! HOWEVER, She found out from social services yesterday that they may not be so quick to reinstate that situation. That may be my out. I am going to tell them the following:

-she has been drinking heavily
-she has been involved with several men, possibly at the house (one reported incident)
-she isn't speaking in terms of kids needing her, but of her needing them, particularly the youngest because "she clings to me all day, always loves me, and needs me the most"
-she isn't seeing past her own needs and pain. No accountability, no apologies, minimizing what occurred as a one time mistake, and saying treatment follow up is being blown out of proportion

My hope is that SS sees me fit as a father but allows her to come home, and hopefully they ask me to be here for 4-8 weeks until she completes some court ordered therapy. She doesn't want it but it may do her good.

Finally, between her and I the question is: did she ask for a D and lose control in the pain of separation? Or has she been out of control longer and the D was the first bad choice? No clue, right now I am focused on being a parent first, and a supportive friend to her next. Can't see last the next 24-48 hours right now...

[Zues126]

Wife is back home. I am back out.

My DB coach originally said NOT to leave her alone with kids immediately and to stay there temporarily. My W threw a fit and said she can't have me in house due to her fear of me. Fortunately I had a meeting with my DB coach set up for today so I asked W if she'd like to join on be call, the idea being if my DB coach was cool with me leaving then I'd leave. She joined me on the call, and we had a good discussion. W had some valid reasons to be uncomfortable with me there so coach said we could work out other arrangements. Coach seemed tough on me but it was good, I hope my W remembers how validated she felt and how fair coach was. May plant a small seed.

In the meantime W is fully recommitted to D. Says she didn't mean to mislead me, but that we can't work in a marriage. She likes that I am doing better with the kids and wants me to find ways to take them for a weekend so she can have some adult time. Personally she still seems a bit contradictory. She had a beer in her hand, which immediately after hospital release when you know social services might check in AND you just got off a three month bender...I get she's celebrating the release but seemed odd. Then she talked about finding herself vs having companionship, but made a point to say I could date and talked about how she missed days on the pill and needed to get back on her birth control.

Whatever. Not my journey. It hurt really bad to have her mislead me, then to go through that scare, then to have 5 days with the children with my living situation in the air and with tension so intense one bad move would've started a custody war, only to do an awesome job across the board but be rejected again. Not being wanted in my family is horrible.

Back to working on me. This was an emotional backslide (or I wasn't as detached as I thought). Gotta focus on me again and take care of myself. It feels bad but I'm doing my best and I'm proud of the choices I'm making.

[Ss06]

Wait a minute. A beer? No, that's not ok and I'd not leave my kids alone with her if she's going to drink AT ALL.

I hope you're documenting all of this. For no other reason than because if you're ever asked about her past behavior, she is obviously in NO position to speak about it so you need to be able to be detailed about it.

Her "celebrating" over being released from the hospital from a suicide attempt by having a beer? That just doesn't sit well with me AT ALL.

And about you being detached... how could you possibly be fully detached after all you've been through recently? Give yourself some credit. Your wife attempts suicide and where are you? RIGHT EFFING THERE!!! That says a lot about you. To YOU. To your KIDS. If she doesn't care, that's one thing but let it remind you that you know your priorities. You take care of yours. You protect what you can and you step up when you're needed. Keep it up.

I'm behind you.

[25yearsmlc]

Wife is back home. I am back out.

My DB coach originally said NOT to leave her alone with kids immediately and to stay there temporarily. My W threw a fit and said she can't have me in house due to her fear of me. Fortunately I had a meeting with my DB coach set up for today so I asked W if she'd like to join on be call, the idea being if my DB coach was cool with me leaving then I'd leave. She joined me on the call, and we had a good discussion. W had some valid reasons to be uncomfortable with me there so coach said we could work out other arrangements. Coach seemed tough on me but it was good, I hope my W remembers how validated she felt and how fair coach was. May plant a small seed.

Given the givens, I think you did the best you could.

In the meantime W is fully recommitted to D. Says she didn't mean to mislead me, but that we can't work in a marriage. She likes that I am doing better with the kids and wants me to find ways to take them for a weekend so she can have some adult time. Personally she still seems a bit contradictory.

I'd rephrase that. She's VERY contradictory and is a perfect example of why we say "Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do." That STILL applies. Don't freak out or think anything is final, based on these comments. And don't push for any answers from her. She seems to be in the middle of a nervous breakdown.

None of which absolves you of your work, nor does it make you a great h or dad. I'm actually impressed with how realistic you are with your shortcomings as a dad but it's also a handicap. You are forewarned that your role as a father MUST be improved upon and increased, greatly. When a man admits, as you did awhile back, that seeing your kids a few times a week would be better than in the past, that says a lot...and in your wife's defense, I can see why she'd ask if your changes are real. ((BTW, I absolutely believe she was curious about your changes for good reasons, but that doesn't mean she's not confused. She is, obviously. But then, so are you.))

Consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in.


She had a beer in her hand, which immediately after hospital release when you know social services might check in AND you just got off a three month bender...I get she's celebrating the release but seemed odd.

It IS odd, but you have to remember not to be the one to police her actions. She must have a caseworker or social worker or SOMEONE following her treatment and that's the person for you to contact. Don't make her paranoid around you. Especially now. Help her to trust you. Any talk of "Cake eating" is so inappropriate in this situation that it makes me shake my head and wonder if the person remarking that way has read this whole thread.

Your whole family is in crisis. NO ONE is having fun at your expense or "using" you.

I know of 2 suicides on these boards. I take this VERY seriously. Your wife is deeply damaged, and in terrible pain. Your vows said "in sickness and in health" and even if all you can offer her now is your health insurance and emotional support, "as a friend" - DO IT so she feels safer and has more hope.

MY guess is that She thinks her future is very bleak b/c she can't trust you to be her man, and now she thinks "no one else will want me", and as a sahm, she worries she won't be able to make it on her own financially either. Her fears make sense.


Then she talked about finding herself vs having companionship, but made a point to say I could date and talked about how she missed days on the pill and needed to get back on her birth control.

Whatever. Not my journey. It hurt really bad to have her mislead me, then to go through that scare, then to have 5 days with the children with my living situation in the air and with tension so intense one bad move would've started a custody war, only to do an awesome job across the board but be rejected again. Not being wanted in my family is horrible.


I'm not clear about the "awesome job across the board", and I don't mean to sound petty with that remark. I'm just not sure what you mean. It sounded to me as if you showed up in an emergency that anyone would do except a real ogre. But the thing is, Your good deeds were noticed by your kids, (if no one else.) And your showing up was appreciated and witnessed by them. You can't expect a big welcome home and reward from her- for a week or two of showing up, especially after years of the past you two had.

Your good deeds won't pay off that way...but your kids know you were there and they are probably feeling safer and more loved around you. That needs to matter more to you. I'd say it's THE most important thing; not what your emotional wife is saying today.


Back to working on me. This was an emotional backslide (or I wasn't as detached as I thought). Gotta focus on me again and take care of myself. It feels bad but I'm doing my best and I'm proud of the choices I'm making.

Take care of your kids, and yourself and keep a compassionate eye out for your wife. Make sure she knows the health insurance covers...whatever it covers and that you will make sure she gets the help she needs if there are some gaps in coverage.

I think You can/should say this in a way that doesn't make it sound as if she's the only one with problems. And don't forget only a short while ago you talked a lot about your fantasy world, not knowing reality, being delusional, etc...

she has hers, you have yours and both of you can/need to do better.

So, back to YOU. What are the changes you are most concerned with making this month? And how are you and the kids? Can you do an activity WITH them that they like or choose? (I say that b/c it sounded as if you pretty much made the choices about all that before hand. And maybe letting them choose would be a good way for you to get to know them and their talents/likes/dislikes and of course for them to feel more comfortable with you.

Here is a true story that might shed light on PART of your situation...

2007--
A beautiful & fun neighbor of ours, in a pretty darn happy marriage and with 4 kids, told me she'd had a "come to Jesus!" talk with her husband a year earlier. Because of that talk, he began working fewer hours and spending more time at home. He took a pay cut for that.

He mentioned on Halloween that he was coaching his daughter's soccer team, watching his son practice basketball, and that he felt that he was "finally getting to know his own kids"...I have to tell you in that moment I was so jealous of what I was hearing. I'd have given anything to have MY husband saying something like that.

Then quite unexpectedly, and after playing cards at our house with both families, his wife & my dear friend, said she had a "splitting headache" and died of an aneurysm. Bam! 42, stunning looking tall blonde with a kind heart and easy laugh, a great mother and a loving wife...just yanked out of a family, which she was the center of...for 2 years those kids looked like they'd just been punched in the stomach.

I've often wondered if my friend somehow sensed she wasn't long for this earth, so she got her husband to KNOW their kids before she left us.

I mean, the calendar on the wall was color coordinated to match each child's activities so you literally could come in and take over on a day's notice. SO organized, who had piano lessons, who had trouble with math, a dentist appointment and practice, etc. Each child was a specific color, etc.

She was a great mom, and she made her h a good father while she was alive. Then she died, and he became a great father.

Like him, you can take a sad tragic ordeal, and make it into a blessing.


You need decide NOTHING about your marital status now. In fact, that would be about the last thing on my mind if I were you.

In some states her mental status cold prevent you from being able to divorce her and the amount of income a court would impute to her would be much less in her present condition.

As a fellow DBer and as a L, I think there are arguments to be made for you to put all that aside for now. Yes, I know SHE may not, but you can still not help speed it up, for HER sake if nothing else. Help her to heal. She'll need your insurance for one thing...anyhow, again it's not something to be decided today.

You have some fundamentals to work on. I think as bad off as your wife sounds, it's possible you've had your head in the sand quite a lot never to have noticed how desperate she was getting. I also have a hard time believing this was the first time she has had too much to drink. Which makes me wonder where you were...mentally/emotionally I mean. Not to be crass, but is that when you were on your own with the computer?

Anyhow, You talked so much about all your unmet needs...I hope you can better see now how empty her tanks have been and how many of her needs were unmet. She could never live up to the porn fantasies, which is depressing (and a huge turn off btw) and perhaps that is why she threw herself into motherhood. Kids tend to love us with so little effort on our parts.

So work on you, be fully PRESENT for your kids, and help take care of your wife.

At this point staying married would not be THE priority;

helping your children and wife to stay healthy and alive, while you become the man you were meant to become, would be.

Keep posting and keep on keeping on.

Sending you virtual hugs

(((( ))))

[Lifes Twists]

Zues,

I am surprised DCF / SS has not been involved. I went through exactly what you are in April. My wife also tried suicide and ended up in the hospital. The hospital reported it to DCF / SS. They investigated it and determined the children should stay with me. I was supposed to determine if wife is under any type of drug or alcohol each time kids are with her. If she is I am not to leave them with her or remove them if necessary. A court order was just entered that spells that out. It gives me final say concerning the kids.

Did your wife leave a note? Those who do are crying out for help. Those who don't are more dangerous as they really do want to kill them selves. They are more likely to try again. The next year is the worst for another attempt. How will you feel if she does or does something worse?

You need to talk to a lawyer. If DCF / SS has not been involved or done an investigation you may want to involve them. A lawyer will tell you what is best course of action. You need to think about your kids now and their safety. You cannot worry about hurting your wife's feelings right now or even DBing. That can be worked on later.

Take it from one who has just gone through what you are going through. I was surprised my wife was released after a week. I feel the mental health system in our country is bad right now.

Good luck and feel free to contact me in MLC section if you have any questions or need support.

[Zues126]

OK, I'm out of the house again but keeping a CLOSE eye on things. I will be there again tonight, and will very attentive to any signs of concern.

As for STBX, I'm not saying I've let go of the rope...but it's clear she has some serious issues to sort through and I don't need to be along for the ride. I can tell you first hand that I've bottomed out in life before, and afterwards I tend to be a bit humble, a bit soft spoken, and maybe a bit cautious about taking assertive action because I'm not as confident and am afraid of causing further harm. My STBX is the opposite. She is acting like a celebrity that goes to rehab and is feeding off the public adulation of her speeches. Today she put a FB post up with pictures of sand art, speeches about how this happened and today is the new first day of her life, and how she has found hope, and everything happens for a reason. Sounds fair, and everyone is liking the post, but those that know her close see that she is just a master of control and is just trying to reestablish she is in control of herself, is a great mom, and she is just such an awesome person. I'm not saying there's not some truth to this, but what I am saying is she's a PROFESSIONAL at managing other people's perceptions and opinions of her, and she in fact can place more stock in getting public approval than in actually being ok. That's not just my opinion, it's that of my DB coach and IC, so not trying to mind read.

Reason I bring this up is because I've been playing along. I've been the 'abusive husband' and have taken all the blame. Tired of that. Not turning focus away from me for good, just saying that I'm recognizing she isn't the perfect angel and I'm not the devil. She has some serious things to deal with and right now I just need to take care of myself and the kids.

SO- what everyone's been waiting for...back to me. What am I working on? Well, right now it's been survival. I've been pretty tested this week. But now I'm going to be just slowing down, not trying to control anything, and going with the flow. I don't want to wallow, nor do I need to decide what my life needs to look like today. I am spending good time with my children, taking care of myself by meditating, reading, talking with my friends and family, and finding joy in simple things like a game of chess. Seems trivial, but there is some growth in the fact that I am not running from my emotions or trying to control external circumstances. In fact, meeting emotions head on without blaming, controlling, or running...well, never been able to do this before. We'll see where I am in a week. For now I'm just going to breath deep and accept that although I don't believe in divorce, if she is insistent on her current course then it is probably for the best. I am now 2.5 months porn free, I am a better dad, and I am less cocky and realize that my $hit stinks. So next R I'm (NO HURRY!!!) I will be appreciative for every day that my partner gives me, and make a true priority to understand her needs. Oh, that's another thing...even though I'm not seeing a road to reconciliation at this moment I am still trying to meet my STBX's needs by working well with her on family arrangements and making sure she has the right balance of support/distance from me to keep things civil.

Next week I'll do more towards GAL. Just happy to be through this week Thank you all for the support. Really...25, SS, Sam, everyone! Thank you.

[Zues126]

SS, I'm writing this in my post instead of yours, but nothing wrong with being dressed up with nowhere to go. A lot of vets say GAL is so critical and I can see why. For me, though, I was ways doing things during my M and wasn't good at slowing down, being in the moment, or being alone. I felt like I was missing out. Now I don't feel that way.

Maybe I'm an introvert by nature. Not sure. But I see me STBX going out, meeting other guys, and I'm not jealous. I just think its sad she has to offer her body for someone to tell her what she needs to hear to feel better. For me, the idea of making love with a woman that was anything other than a committed partner would just make me aware how much was missing, and how lonely I must be to settle for anything less.

So I'm NOT GAL, at least not in the meeting people/keeping busy sense. I still play pool as that is one of my gifts. But tonight I just talked with a friend for a bit, came home, meditated for a bit, and will now read a few chapters before turning in early. I'm not trying to impress my STBX with how awesome I am. I am who I am. She may never see he value or be in a spot to forgive my mistakes. That's her journey. I'm doing this for me. And I don't feel the need to be doing something special for me to have value. I have value here, by myself. And being OK with being here and now with no one else's approval and minimal outside stimulation is my biggest 180. Goodnight all!

[Zues126]

Such a lot of pain. I'm finally starting to see the depths of my Ws pain. I can see it through my own pain.

See, I look back at my posts. I didn't believe anyone was more committed than me. But you can only hurt so long and some damage cannot be repaired. What my STBX is doing now in a fog isn't part of what brought down our R. Much of that was me. But the things she has done are beyond hurtful.
-Criticizing me to her friends and family, sharing intimate details I wish she'd respect are private and then presenting only the negatives. For any women that do this ill tell you It feels the same as if I recorded a love making session then watched it with some friends and laughed at how out of shape she or frigid she was.
-she knows sex was my LL and she was distant for years. Now she dumps me and is playing the field. I may know she is just trying to feel better but it hurts to see her seemingly care more about her flings the. Her H.
-her never ending ocean of resentment. It's as abusive as anything she can accuse me of.
-finally, walking away from the marriage altogether. We're all here for a reason. Enough said. What a betrayal.

So why so focused on me? Because at this moment I can't see a way past it. It's not that I wouldn't want to trust/love/forgive, but she's getting very close to finding her way on the 'dead to me' list and becoming just an extra in my life movie.

So if I feel this way after a few months of this post separation behavior when I can expect it, no wonder she is so hurt by my years of damage during a marriage. It helps me have compassion when all I want to do is protect myself.

I would have given up but Bond said one using anger to disconnect isn't detachment not is it healthy. It looks like I have to ignore my heart which is dying for me to protect myself in pain.

But though I can see the amount of pain I caused her, I have a hard time focusing on what I've done. It's like I blocked it out and said 'that wasn't really me' only it was. Some of the things ive done i would never do again. Others i still struggle with. How do I trust myself to be in an R ever again? Why don't they teach this in school?!? I'm all over the map but bleeding a little in my heart. No specific question, but anyone have any inspiration?