It's because of the young kids we get through it. They need the best and proper us in order to feel like they are okay. I have 2 young D's, and Everytime I think I can't move on, they remind me that there are more important things to do.
I agree , I hate to think where I would be without my S , was because of him I took the high road many times..slipped a few .. but I wanted him to have a good father, I have always been pretty good and involved, but now I am all about being a father, making sure his emotional needs are taken care of. W always comments to him "Why don't you hug/love me like that?" when she sees him hug me and run towards me .... It does keep me going, knowing regardless if we can save our family ... he knows I will do what I can for him and his happiness as well as guide him along the way.
Your S will truly be a guiding light for you and you can take solace in the fact that your relationship with him is fantastic. Good job!
After reading your thread, the thing that jumps out at me, probably because I'm guilty of it too, is assuming what she is doing with her time, and worrying a bit about the OM. I noticed you judging whether she saw him after mass and how that was inappropriate. Unfortunately, you need to not worry about that. We have no control over the OM and our WAW R.
I have the same concerns and fears with you re friend zone. Unfortunately I am currently in the A hole husband zone
Be consistent as you are doing, have really zero expectations, and keep GAL. Detachment is not going to be easy. Don't be too hard on yourself. You've been together 24 years, you can't switch that off immediately
Also, I noticed lots of focus on the mediation meeting and how things turned from that point. Was there anything else that happened at that point? I'm sure your W is concerned about the finances, as you should be. I think you've handled yourself very well. It's a tightrope act, that required delicate balancing. That balance is much easier when you are balancing for you, not someone else.
Dev ... thanks for taking the time and reading and giving me input .. its a huge thing for me.
You are absolutely right about the OM ... I know I need to let go of that and have been working on it .. easier said than done.
The mediation thing .. she had set up the appt after a small fight we had ... that fight it seemed she was pushing for and it very well could have been a big fight but I did not take the bait. Up till that point we were really getting along much better, she was sharing her work days texting me and things were actually going well .. then BAMM .. that meeting and everyhing flipped.
Since we have been getting along, but it feels so non connected. It kills me though I dont show it and would NEVER talk about it as I know there is no good that comes from it.
SO today I get my phone activated after the swim it took, I let her know and ask if she was taking S today, she confirmed and offered to pick him up which I was happy for as I could run errands and work a bit later. She TM me around 5 asking if I was ok and telling me she made him cookies I thought .. hmmm ok .. strange her asking if I was ok .. I replied about an hour later (180 as I usually reply right away) that I was good, just leaving work and told her she always made great cookies, our S is a lucky boy. and left it at that. Later she tells me S's sty is back and asks if we can take him on Saturday (Again .. strange, she wants us both to go) ... I told her she had a hair appt she told me about and I have my IC ... but I would reschedule and take him so she could still get her hair done (180 for me to offer and take S giving her time). She told me no .. I figured I atleast offered and left it at that.
Now the kicker and its bugging me ... about an hour later she TM me WAW "Whats the best way to describe me when I have PMS, Don't choke be honest"
I looked at that and was like .. hmmm
ME "Why?"
WAW "why do I ask? because I know I'm a pain in the ass but I also know that they shift quickly...you know it best and I'm trying to understand. So I know the trigger points"
So yeah .. her PMS tantrums are of legend .. I could never figure them out, now alot of times not to bad knowing what to look for helped me avoid the mines .. but the past few years she would go on really good ones. Not really knowing what to say ... and in my head (I know I know .. mind reading and let the OM go) ... but I am thinking .. why ask... so you can warn OM and he can benefit from this info ... or is this something she is working on .. or maybe its her way of admitting it was a problem in our M ... I just have no idea with the fog and the rollercoaster of where this is headed.
Me"Its not easy to describe ... I guess over the years I just accepted the pattern and tried to realize is was part of who you are"
WAW "describe it while taking out the emotion"
Me" Like I said I dont think I can describe it, its not the same every time, its usually different month to month, sometimes you are really irritable, other times its the depression that sets in ...never could figure out what would set one off over the other"
I am not sure I handled it correctly .. or not .. just strange she would ask that, no reply as of yet but she has not read the last text either ... letting it go and going to take a walk and focus on not obsessing ... an issue I have fought with for far to long.
but I am thinking .. why ask... so you can warn OM and he can benefit from this info ...
CaliGuy, I have to say this is the first thing that popped into my head. Yes, it's mindreading, so let it go. But even if it's for OM, that still means she recognizes it as a problem which could be applied to any R she's in, with OM or with you.
My WAW also had violent PMS. She was on AntiDepressants for it and went cold turkey before she abandoned us. (Me D16 and S8)
I can empathize how hurtful it is to have your W flip on you, go "crazy" based on the same behavior that you had the day before.
One thing that I noticed made my W worse was that if she was guilty, or hiding something that month the PMS was considerably worse. I am assuming your W had the same pattern. It may be worth communicating that one right there, the value of honesty = sanity.
Me: 35 Her: 33 D : 16 S : 9 Together: 14 years Married: 12 She left 4/14/2014 Separated: 5/25/2014 OM Confirmed 7/2014 She filed 8/7/2014 I Filed 10/21/2014 Divorce final 2/12/2015
CaliGuy, I have to say this is the first thing that popped into my head. Yes, it's mindreading, so let it go. But even if it's for OM, that still means she recognizes it as a problem which could be applied to any R she's in, with OM or with you.
rppfl Oh I know its mind reading, just impulse feelings I have to let go of, putting them out there and realizing what I am doing is a way to try and stop that behaivior in myself.
One thing that I noticed made my W worse was that if she was guilty, or hiding something that month the PMS was considerably worse. I am assuming your W had the same pattern. It may be worth communicating that one right there, the value of honesty = sanity.
Yes she does ... she revisited the text later that night and into this morning, she is on one of her episodes, and the guilt she has I think is eating her up, I suggested she see an IC, but I have learned a soft suggestion is as far as I can go, not pushing leading to the volcanic explosion is what has worked.
So as I mentioned .. she TM me later that night and I was not really comfortable talking about her PMS issues, was nice to know (like rppfl said) she is at the least aware of it and the impact it has on those around her ... she admitted this morning our S wants nothing to do with her and he is scared of her ... more the latter, he loves his mom but has told me he is scared of her at times .. if anything I would hope she could get help for him. During our TM convo last night she said something to the effect "Its ok, I'm not your problem anymore... goodnight" ... that statement hurt a bit .. I almost sent no reply, but replied with "You were never a "problem" ... night". Then she went on to say she was good till the PMS, she picks a fight and then gets depressed and asked me how many years she has been doing that cycle. I confirmed, and told her its been some time and has increased in intensity over the last couple years ( This was with the added stress that I did not bring up,miscarraige in 2006 seem to start it off.. my father passing2012, her brother in prison2013, her mother left her father for a year2013 - and the family drama she considers normal, and her work-3 different jobs in 4 years that she has not been happy with since she was laid off-off for over a year- and we lost the house in 2009)
So I tried to dodge all this.. makes her feel like its her fault and I have never felt that way, just unfortunate circumstances and validate, telling her I understand she is having a hard time and asked how I could help ... obviously times like this she does reach out to me, part of me would like to 180 here and make her see what its like without me, but I just can not be cruel, right or wrong I feel that does not add into the love bucket and would be cruel ... so I feel this is my chance to put in positives, she replied that "you walk away every morning I see it, your guard is up, I know its ok I've hurt everyone" I jus ttold her it was not that I am walking away, I am just working on me ... she said "good for you, Goodnight" then went on to say "Its ok, I need to learn to be alone, I have S here in bed with me" .... I did not want to touch the alone part, just told her to watch out for S's right hook and left it at that.
She TM this morning still emotional and depressed, I asked her if she would let me help her, get her at least an IC .... told her its helping me (figured share a little vulnerability maybe she would atleast think about it) Told her between IC and reading its helped me. She then asked what I was reading ... I was not going to tell her DB ... lol .. I told her books my therapist suggests, and I read the bible everyday (180s here for me that I have stuck to) .... then she replied "You don't have to boast, I know you are on the right path and I'm not" ... guilt talk here, I just replied .. I was not boasting just telling you what I read, then I sent her a pic of our dog changing the topic and tone feeling the fight brewing ... Thanks to MWD for that in the DB book about changing our pattern in a fight ... see I am reading and applying
For the most part, I am just holding onto the positives here, I was starting to be a little frustrated, I know we are not to have any expectations, but in a way .. I expect to save this marriage, I realize its a long process, but you do kind of need little flashes of hope that things are improving and getting better. This exchange does make me feel that in a way she does need me, when she is at her dark stages, and if I can plant some seeds ... maybe when the sun comes out they will grow and take root. I resisted every chance to tell her .. the guilt is eating at her, stop doing what you are doing ... but the statement of her needing to get used to being alone, I actually agree with, no OM, no me even .. she needs to get right, get out of the fog, and then maybe she will want the strength of our family to lean on as she continues her battle with the demons.
so today I was reading the DB book, read a few threads and came out of it with a new perspective. I have basically been allowing WAW to have her A .. not bring it up .. and jsut be the #2 optn and she knows it.
So today I did a GAL 180, she TM that she would be working a little late, its her night with S ... I told her that was fine, so when she showed up 30 minutes later I was dressed and leaving at the same time. She wanted to talk so I asked her what was up ... she asked why I am treating her differently (the detaching thing I assume) I told her I did not feel I was treating her differently .... then she asked if we could be friends and I took a deep breathe .. paused and she started reacting ... I asked for a moment and told her I could not be friends ... she made a choice to have the A, and as long as she intended to do that I felt it was disrespectful to me, out marriage, our family, our son, and her family ... I then said I need to go as I made plans (Just going to a friends for a redbox movie) WOW did this set her off .. TM she told me to go sleep around, brought up old garbage, and went into her usual rants ... I validated, told her I have already apologized for my part in this M, and have made some changes in my life and it was at this point all I could humanly do ... and left it at that
I hope this was a correct way to handle it ... putting on the spew jacket
I know that OW asked my H what his faults were early on. He turned to me and said, "She wants to know what my faults are. What would you say?"
Mind. Boggling.
Oh, the script of an MLCer. Ca-razy.
Sorry MLP, I missed your comment .... and yeah ... this MLC WAW script is mind boggling, I thought I was just dealing with my own unique crazy, reading here ( I have read so much) made me realize its not just me .. which is comforting .. but more importantly is there is actually a way to try to get through this and somehow be better for it .. regardless if the M stays intact
So yesterday, I was reading the DB, and read Devs sitch .. all 4 volumes ... reading some advice he had as his sitch has some similarities of mine. I sat and thought about it ... I've allowed her to cake eat. Her and the OM have been on again and off again ... I could start predicting where they were by her actions towards me. Like many .. sure I want my M and family back, sure I love her ... but I do not want to be choice #2, I chose to take this gift of time and be a better version of me .. someone a fool would leave ... so I sat and thought .. since Nov what have I done (Alot of these I did before reading DB)
I have: Found God Attend church on a consistent basis Joined a softball team Rejoined my football team Lost 20lbs Got a much better job, one I am happy at Promoted, and a raise (may have another raise in a month) Made it a point to dress better Regained confidence Planned outings on the weekend with my son Took an all weekend motorcycle riding course (Bucket list item) Got control of my temper Realized my mistakes in the marriage, how I could have done things differently Become WAY more social
I have other things I am working on but decided to reflect and realize I am not the person she left.
She TM me her spew yesterday (me dressed up and appearing to go out rattled her badly ... not my intention but it did feel nice to have that mysterious vibe going .. even if it was just a redbox movie)She was bringing up past issues -typical for her justifying to herself her A and then brought up that I called her disrespectful earlier.... I clarified what I said via TM so atleast she could read it and not rewrite that conversation as she has our history..I told her how I felt it was disrespectful to me, our marriage, our son, family for her to have an A and try to be my friend. She went on to give me the business some but I watched the movie instead of replying.
So early this morning she TM me, telling me that I don't have to worry about her being with anyone anymore ... I misread the TM ... was early and I was not quite awake and she does do the suicidal talks ... especially when she is PMSing like this. So I asked if she wanted to talk ... she called. She tells me its over .. he broke up with her ... I stopped her and told her I was not going to discuss him, she hung up on me. Through TM she is upset I am not there for her, she needs support, I always walk away(<-this one is a biggie for her... I walk away when I realize a fight is going no where and it makes her furious) ... I calmly validated her feelings, told her I know she is hurting, I understand the pain she must feel. ...(however to call your husband after your OM dumps you ... even in a fog you must see that's wrong...then again .. WAW Coo Coo Lingo 101 tells me its not al that uncommon) So I get S ready and drop him off ... not knowing what to expect ... times like this .. (has happened twice now) I was guilty of scaring the squirrel... thinking ok OM is gone this is my chance ... Thankfully I have learned ... she told me that she is alone, scared of being alone, does not like who she is, hates that our S is all happy with me but once with her he withdraws, just basically giving me the self pity party. I calmly told her she is a good person, however I think she actually needs to be alone, take the time she now will find herself with and figure out what she truly wants out of life, what makes her happy without anyone whispering in her ear luring her to what they want... and that means me too. She was crying telling me she could not get through this alone, I told her she did not have to, I removed my necklace and placed it in her hands (Its a cross) I told her now might be a good time to start new. She was more religious than I but is angry with God over all her issues and really pulled away when her brother was convicted. She told me she needs to stop blaming, she wants to learn to be happy with herself, she wants to trust again, she wants to trust God, me, but does not know how. I told her trust is hard .. you do have to have a little faith and atleast give Him a chance ... you have to take the first step and start building. She took a few steps back and told me I have changed, she asked how ... I told her alot of reflection, reading, and refusing to do things that made me miserable. I told her small changes can effect your day so much. Explained the Butterfly Effect that I read in DB (I did not tell her about the DB book though she asked and was VERY interested in reading more). She finally agreed to get some IC ... this conversation was worth that if nothing else stuck ... she does need IC badly. Baby steps
So I left, no expectations for once, she needs to go on this journey alone still and I need to let her figure things out while continuing myself.(I realize she will have a withdraw period .. provided it is actually over between her and OM) Sure I have hopes that this is the beginning of a chance at a new marriage .. I know there is more work than I want to admit that would need to be done. Who knows if OM is truly out ... and it has not really mattered to me... she told me I should be happy he is gone and I calmly replied that it really had no effect on me (180 here ... and one that took her offguard). It was actually true for the first time since I found out about the A ... reinforcing that I have made progress detaching.
I would appreciate thoughts/advice ... as of now I am going to stay the course, keep reading ... learning ... DB experimenting if you will. I know she will make a huge play to spend family time, its where she regains her strength ... not sure if providing that is good at this point or not.
Finished the DB book last night. WAW asked if we were still on for dinner at her place, she was running late and would not be home till 7 "Its up to you" ... SO I explained by the time we ate I would have to get S ready for bed it would be to late and declined. She TM me a little but I was with S and not really in the mood to talk.... knowing OM is out of the picture and now she wants to talk irritates a bit .. I know it does not help my cause but still stings. So this morning I drop off S and she asks me to come in, I was wanting to detach and just go to work but I came in .. she gives me a hug and asked if I slept and I told her I didn't, she asked why and I told her I have alot going on and really did not want to share, this set her off and she started her spew a bit .. rather than just letting her spew I made the mistake .. backslide a bit .. told her she was the one that pulled away, now that its over with OM she should not expect me to open up right away and I wish she appreciated that ... she went off a bit more, blaming me for her being mentally screwed up ... (MLC script here .. .) I told her the sooner she started taking responsibility for what she has done and stops blaming me for her [censored] up life the faster she will get over it. (Mistake ... but its what I said) ... this upset her and she started crying .. I stayed long enough to calm her down ... told her she has pushed me away for the past 9 months and even before that, she said something that she needs me and our S and I told her she needs to show it ... actions not words (DB believe none of what she says and only 50% of what she does), I know this sets back some of the progress I made, she had made a remark that her life was fine before she met me ... 24 years ago ... I was like WTF>? hell I don't recall either of us having our [censored] together that long ago .. but in her head I can not imagine how twisted it all mus be. So back to dark .... I received a large raise today, one that I will not tell her about .. she was worried she would have to pay child/spousal support ... and with this increase it may just be even enough that she pulls the trigger ... hard to say. But the raise was a huge boost, I was actually in a great mood .. and I sit her looking forward to the changes I can make and have made ... regardless if she is in my life I know I am going to be ok... I have God to thank for that.
