Wife still in MLC but has now left #2

[Matt165]

Hi LT,
I have known for sometime about how AD's have hurt our M. In fact AD's hurt our sex life greatly and that was the start of W's decent. We always had a really good sex life. AD's made that almost impossible and it freaked her out. In fact, I'm very down on the "medical community" right now as her GP told her that AD's only effect her sex life IF her M was bad to begin with! I couldn't believe this when she told me that her Dr. (who I also know recently had his own MLC and left his Dr. W!) would say something so unprofessional! She told me that he also told her that "as soon as I get away from you, I'll be able to atop taking AD's again". At first I thought she was either making this up or "miss heard" what he said but I also know that Dr's, like other people, do have their own problems and if he is in his own MLC, may actually believe what they want.

One of the reasons she went back on AD's (she stopped about a year after going back to work, a big mistake in hind sight) was her inability to sleep because of her anxiety (depression and anxiety go hand in hand). She would lay in bed and worry, worry, worry and that killed our M. Since leaving she hasn't been able to go off and is still not sleeping. She let this info out one day when we were driving to her grandmother's birthday party together a few weeks after she left. Of course, she still finds ways to blame me for this (It's because she hasn't gotten the D finalized yet and hasn't been able to totally cut ties from me. At least that was her excuse then, who knows what it will be tomorrow!). When she was going through her first huge depressive episode I learned as much as I could about depression and AD's, etc. The thing is, my W is one of those people that are so afraid of being "weak". So not wanting to believe that her problems are caused by something in her but would rather blame an outside force, in her case she wants to blame her M and me.

I really don't think she was ever out of her depression but used her work to cover it up. She has even told me that she has felt so bad for so long and she has tried so many things to stop feeling so awful but nothing has worked. D'ing me she said is the biggest thing she can see that she can change and before she was M, she never was depressed. She thinks that if she is on her own, totally in "control" of every part of her life, she won't be able to be depressed because I won't be around to "help" her. Yes, crazy thinking but when someone is depressed and in MLC, you really can't expect clear thinking!

I really believe that MLC and depression are almost always found together. One feeds off the other. It took me a very long time to detach at all because I saw what she was doing as another chapter in her depression and she was just sick and needed my help. Well, part of what she needs from me now is for me to detach and let her see what it's like on her own without my "help" and love. Hard to do after so many years of her needing the opposite!

[Mighty]

Wow, Matt. That sounds so typical, yet so sad. The blame part is the most ironic. Yet, I think the biggest piece that keeps them in MLC. As long as it is something/someone else's fault, there is no reason to be accountable for anything.

I can't believe the dr. That is terrible. I just don't like the mentality in our society that things are so easily disposable, particularly a family and marriage. Unreal- someone in that profession, prescribing these meds should have a better clue. I don't like the flippant attitude about this situation and about prescribing meds at all. It is serious stuff and should be handled accordingly. That must be really frustrating for you. Boy, this is an uphill battle, for sure. She is going to have to learn for herself. She will see, once she feels "free" of you, or whatever she wants, she still will not find happiness.

I can tell you, I gave my h a quick and easy d. I have not gotten paperwork finalizing it, but I just went right along. If that's what he wanted, he got it. He was adamant, and such a jerk, I felt the best option was to give him what he thought he wanted, to be "free" of me. Then he could take a look in the mirror and see that he really wasn't happier. Well, as you know, things didn't work out exactly like that. But, the last conversation we did have, I said, you must be relieved, our divorce is almost final and you will be free of me. His response, "It's not a relief." What the heck is that?! See... they think they know what they want.... they have no clue.

Focus on you! Take care, Matt!

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Matt,

From my own research on depression and ADs I know that there is only one way at this point that the depressed can help their situation. They have to first admit the problem comes from within and stop trying to blame others. They then need to find a counselor that will help them to learn the signals of an on coming depressive period and to help them learn skills that will help them to cope during those periods.

The problem with AD's is that they are addictive. You can't go cold turkey without the chance of a major depressive episode. They also loose their effectiveness over time and may actually cause a more depressive situation. To get off them takes a doctors supervision and a long time to gradually reduce the dosage.

Unfortunately most severely depressed are convinced they cannot live without ADs.

I believe that MLC is just another symptom of their depression. Until they can get the right kind of support they will probably never get well.

So, like you, I have to admit I cannot help her. I need to focus on my daughters and myself. For their well being and my own, I need to put my wife on the back burner and let her deal with her own situation. I need to recharge myself and find a new life.

You need to do the same.

[AJM]

Have you noticed yet Matt? This is NOT about you?

When I met my W to pick her up she hardly looked at me and was in a big hurry. Nearly ran back into her car when I put my D's stuff in.

It's been years Matt, and my ex still can't look me in the eye on the occasion that we run into each other. She can't speak rationally, and can't really have anything to do with me in a positive manner. Years Matt. I'm sure the people she is around don't help that as I've noticed they seem threatened by her talking to me.

I've noticed through the years that exW comes up with drama or some way to "blame" me. It's worn thin, even for her.

But as you may have noticed from your W's statements, she is trying to fix herself. The docs didn't help. So she is trying to self-medicate and fix herself. This is a journey for her and although she doesn't like it (regardless of what she says) she needs very badly to fix herself.

Those on the outside can see that won't work. We see the fallout of her choices. But, frustrating as it is, we didn't break them and we can't fix them. They seem to think they can fix themselves, but that's not likely either Matt.

Try not to judge based on "normalcy" and instead see it for what it is. A desperate woman trying to fix herself and going about it in the most destructive possible way from your perspective. But like any sick person, wish her good health and the best of luck. Regardless of what she says or does.

When the current efforts don't work to ease the pain she feels, she'll try more attacks. It's like they feed off the attacks in some cases. When they see it isn't giving them the "hit" they want, they look for something else. Eventually, they realize they can't get anything from you and look elsewhere. They are compelled to do so.

In some cases, they "wake up" and see the destruction they caused. In some, they never do wake up to it and instead live in that fantasy land they constructed.

But it's classic to blame you (not you per se, but blame AT you) by trying to go back to a time that they didn't feel the pain. They go back to the happy times in their heads. Childhood, before they met you (they re-remember their pasts to make you the bad guy), when they married, had kids, etc.

This isn't about you, Matt. This is something broken in her and she is trying to fix it. Step far back and don't get caught in the flak, Matt. At some point she may feel sad about the loss of the marriage. That may come across as weird and she may try to contact. Even be friendly. Be wary.

It's sad, but it's not about you Matt. She's the broken one and while you are willing to help, she needs to do this on her own.

AJ

[Matt165]

Hi Mighty,
Yes, it has been very frustrating! When I told her that her Dr either didn't say that or if he did I should sue him for malpractice, my W told me that I just didn't want to "see the truth"! I wonder how many M's that guy has ruined with poor advice like that. He isn't even a mental health professional, he's just a GP. When my W was seeing a Psychiatrist he told her that sexual side effects were caused by the meds. She stopped seeing him and went to her GP instead to "save money" when she went back on them and got this crap "advice". I do think at times that I would love to sue the guy as it says right on the label that there are sexual side effects but he supposedly knows better. Of course he is newly D and single himself (his kids went to the same school as our D's)and probably is anti marriage. Who knows, maybe he's dating his female patients (LOL)!

MLC is all about blame IMO. If they feel bad, it must be because of something outside of themselves. I could have easily blamed my W if I was unhappy while she was so depressed and I had to take over so many of the responsibilities of running a home and family. But I knew it was up to me, that my W was sick and it was up to me to keep things going until she got better. She just never got better. Oh, she wanted to believe she was better. She threw herself into her work, neglected her family and kept herself always moving but she lost the ability to care about the things that used to be important to her. The more I tried to get her to be more involved with me and the kids, the more resentful she became.

So it sounds like your H was like my W. Wanting to believe that all that they had to do was get away from us and all would be happy in the world. For him to say "It's not a relief" is just so crazy if you think about it. He got the thing he said he needed. He should be relieved and happy. If he's not wouldn't you think that would make them stop and reassess things? No, not for the MLCer.

My W has told our D19 that she feels like she "Made a wrong turn somewhere in my life". So, does that mean that she is starting to see that her M isn't the cause? Who knows. My poor D19 is just left wondering what that means and why her mother has just thrown away her father and broken up her family. Heather has said that this may just help my girls value their H's and families more in the future. I would think that was the case but my W had the same type of thing happen to her when her father left her mother for OW. I always thought that because of this, because she saw first hand the pain caused by D that my W would never do the same to her family. She said as much for 25 years before B-day. But just like an MLCer she has started to do everything she always swore she would never do and won't stop even when it's not having the desired effect. For all those that come on the boards and say that many LBS's WANT the WAS to be having an MLC (even when they're not).... that is the last thing anyone who is going through a S having an MLC would ever want! If my W was just a WAS there would be the hope that once she saw that she isn't getting the results that she had hoped, she may stop and think maybe she was wrong. With MLC that just can't happen. They aren't in their right minds and can't think logically, can't see what everyone around them see's so clearly! No, I would rather it not be MLC for sure.

Thanks for the support Mighty. I know how hard your sitch is and I want to say you are handling it better than most others would! We'll both get through this and be better for it. We can only hope that our S's can wake up before they destroy themselves completely.

[2BHappy]

Matt
I just wanted to post to you that you dont seem as angry as you were a few weeks ago,,,just wanted to tell you I noticed and hope you continue to improve you and move forward!

Have not noticed any GAL you have done lately (maybe I missed it) but don't forget to have some fun.

[Matt165]

Hi 2B and thanks for stopping by! Yes, I need to GAL a bit more. I got kinda bogged down for a bit and wasn't doing enough. Now that my D14 is back home, I feel SO much better. I am realizing just how much I hate being alone all the time!

Did something last night I probably shouldn't have done. When I heard about Robin Williams I texted my W about it. We both were fans and I know her, she hadn't heard yet as she never keeps up with current events (something I do). Well, all I wrote was he had died and that it was suicide and how sad it was. No more than 10 words. A couple hours later she texted back.."Wow. Hard to live a million miles an hour I guess". At least she acknowledged my text. My mistake was texting back that he was always pretty crazy like his idol Jonathan Winters. Got nothing, dead silence. After, I thought that, knowing her, she see's this as pursuing. Oh, well. Can't do anything about it now!

I need to talk to my D14 about the D. My W had promised that we would have something in the D about D14 being able to have some choice about where she stays as I don't like the fact that she is spending one week with her, one week with me now that school is starting. What a weird way to live your life! Now, not only does she make this official, she locks in times for pick up/ drop off, what holidays she spends with me or her and even dates for those holidays! That I have to let her know by April 1st exactly when I plan to have vacation with her in the summer! (this from a woman who said that when she gets called out of town for work when she has our D, she will just find a "friend" to watch her, get her to school and back, feed her, etc.!). I think this is wrong and the reason my W is doing this is because she "knows" that I will turn our D against her and since she is the one who left the M, I will make D14 hate her. This way D14 will be "forced" (her word) to spend time with her even if she ends up hating her! The last thing a 14 (almost 15) year old needs is to be told exactly when and where she must be at all times. What about school activities? My W moved 26 miles away and put D14 in school THERE and since I now can't afford private school and the school where W lives is a little bit better than where I live, I went along.

I want to do the right thing for my D! I want her life to be the best it can be especially this first year. I really think it's a mistake for her to be stuck in a rigid schedule like this. The only way to stop it is have my D14 tell the court that she wants to live with me as primary custodian. I will never stop her from seeing her mother (although I can see her mom not letting her see me) and if she wanted to stay with her mother longer for some reason I would be fine. I also worry about my W's ability to take care of her down the road. If she becomes depressed as badly as in past, there is no way I want my D living with her. I just dread talking to my D about this. I hate to make her feel like she must choose between me and her mother. I feel I must just tell her that because of the way her mom has set things up, she will have little choice where she spends her time and I want her to have that freedom. To do that I would need to be primary and for that to happen she will need to support this in court. That's really the truth and is non judgmental.

I don't know. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

[LoisB]

Matt,

You sound like you're spinning with the low feelings and with the texting W and the worries about D14, etc...

When I spin, it's better to do NOTHING than act on impulse and regret it later. Get yourself centered.

Maybe start with your attorney before you bring ANYTHING up with D14. She is already under enormous pressure. Ask your L the questions you've raised above. What are D14's rights in all of this? That's how I've handled this...start with the L.

And, get back into your lane. W isn't there anymore. She just isn't.

Much love,

Heather

[Lifes Twists]

Matt,

Talk to your lawyer to get correct answers about your daughter. Everyone else can conjecture, but your lawyer will be able to tell your what is most likely to happen.

In most states I believe that by their mid teens kids can express where they want to live and it will carry weight with the court. You can also seek to have a lawyer appointed to represent your daughter and her best interests. You may also seek some evaluation to see if your wifes depression can affect her ability to be a responsible parent. All of this will take your lawyers help.

Until you get accurate answers, you will just be going around in a circle jerk getting yourself all worked up. Get your lawyer going, sit back and take a deep breath and find something to do for yourself. You can't fix this, you just have to do what is right and see where things fall. Be the best father you can be for your daughter and things will work out. Take this from someone who lost his daughters for a while and now has them back in his life full time.

[Wonka]

Matt,

I am sorry that you're feeling down and frantic with the changes. Center yourself and phone your L about your options.

I am realizing just how much I hate being alone all the time!

This tells me that you are not quite comfortable in your own skin. I've been alone for 10 years today (today is the day Ms. Wonka moved out with the OW) and I've been doing just fine thanks to GAL. Yep, it was tough in the beginning. Now? I relish being able to hog the bed sheets all by myself and vaccum the house naked! Yeah...just threw that one in for the shock value.

I need to talk to my D14 about the D.

Matt, you are the adult here and you don't want to put an undue burden on your D14. You can be very matter of fact by stating that you and her mother will be getting a divorce. Although the parents are not able to live together, D14 is very much loved by you and her mother. If D14 brings up the face that her mother is not well or whatever, just state that it is for W to figure out on her own and that you're sad for her. No need to bash or badmouth W here. After all, she is their mother.

You need to be very clear to D14 that she has full access to both parents. You can simply ask her what her preference is in regard to the primary household. Then shut it. Thank her for her thoughts and that you would do your best to work this out. No guarantees.

Then you may need to gently broach the subject of school and let her know that attending the area private school may no longer be an option due to the divorce. This is a good teaching tool for D14 that this is a transition and she needs to learn how to adapt to this change.

I don't want you to bring up W in this and telling D14 that she cannot go to private school because of W. Shut it. Just state that it is the reality with the changes from W moving out and proceeding with the divorce. Yep, it [censored] for you and D14.

You all need to adjust to a new normal going forward.

And yes! Talk with your L first before you have the convo with D14.

NO BADMOUTHING W. Rinse...repeat.