I think I shouldn't have sent it because it's focuses more about how sad I'M feeling. It's too self-focused, I think.
Can you expand on what specifically you think is valuable information? I'd love to get your take. Thanks.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
Who wrote it? Who has reviewed it, (meaning, did either of you retain a lawyer?) Do you KNOW she has or has not?
We wrote it together. No lawyer involved.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
She knows you are unhappy about it. You gain nothing by again showing that. To repeat, SHE KNOWS HOW YOU FEEL. NO sudden "PMA" will cause doubt in her that soon. [i]Plus, notice your focus again is on you and how YOU feel.
Being miserable is Not attractive, but being "serious" and "concerned" YET civil and cooperative, probably is more believable than pretending to be "Fine"...
Can you pull it off ?--===I mean, not thinking about yourself only AND acting concerned for all parties, (not just angry at her) or moping & wallowing in pity?
IF you cannot treat her civilly, OR IF You cannot resist the urge to say a nasty thing again about her or to her or about OM, then do NOT do this.
Delay it, or just don't do it.
And btw, I'm not clear on why you are formalizing this anyhow. If you can agree to things like temporary custody, why formalize it in writing? It'll make it easier to divorce later, btw, unless one of you changes their mind.
You're right, but she wants to formalize it, I think first and foremost to get legal protection from me (e.g. she thinks I'm a threat to her career -- e.g. exposing her affair at work). She also wants to have financial protection. She makes more money than I do. She wants to be protected in case I go haywire and decide to withdraw all the funds in our joint bank accounts.
I agreed, because if nothing else, it will establish some level of trust (I think).
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
LISTEN TO HER and then listen some more.
IF she says something that you don't understand fully, OR that you think you dislike, first ask her to "maybe explain that some more so [you] can make sure you understand what she's saying better".
Do not assume all the issues must be worked out in one session. Agree to disagree on some things and table them til later if you must. WOuldn't it be great if you two actually did some conflict resolution together? What a 180 that would be.
What are the other 180s you'll have a chance to show her tonight? Focus on those and not on the worst case scenarios. You CAN delay this if there's too much to deal with in one night
OR if you don't want to sign it and need to sleep on it . NO biggie. Way better than fighting.
Do NOT get into an argument. Do NOT mention OM's name, even in "jest" b/c it won't get a single laugh and it will sound snarky of you. Show concern for HER wishes and HER need for space.
Show her that you are fairly confident that once she has gotten her space & met OMs, she'll know better, what you can offer AND that is, that marriage to you can be better/different than before -- because you are changing, you are becoming a man only a fool would leave.
You show that by showing change, and no more of the old you.
Make sense?
As it turned out, she did not have any further discussions with me about typing up the document except for in the late afternoon (before we went out for dinner together). She simply said, let's finish typing up that document when we get back. However, when we got back, we spent time as a family playing board games. We all had a good time. No further mention was made about the CS agreement. As it turns out, she started typing it up on her laptop late last night (I'm not sure if she finished it though).
Another interesting thing happened. After we turned in for bedtime, she came into the bedroom where I was laying down watching TV. She stood over me as I was lying down on the edge of the bed. She says, "I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed our family time this weekend". I extended my hand out (half way towards her), and she reached and held my hand. I looked her in the eyes and said "me too" (in a very upbeat tone). We exchanged smiles and she left the room.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
"but at the same time, be clear that this is a choice that I'm not ultimately happy with?"
She already knows that you're unhappy. In fact, she knows that you are going to be unhappy at anything that you can't control or is in your best interests, like the A's.
Hi MrBond. I just wanted to address this one point. I have indicated to her that I was in agreement with her that separation may be in the best interest for both parties (cooling off period, as we both called it). I've also indicated to her that I hope deep down inside that we could someday reconnect (as husband and wife), even if it's many years from now. I said that even if currently we can't make marriage work, there's no reason why we can't make friendship and co-parenting work. THAT makes it sound as if you will wait for her for as long as it takes, and even if that is true, do NOT tell her that. That's b/c at some point, you want her to fear losing you. I doubt she will fear losing you for some time b/c you have not been a h who treated her well enough for her to miss you.
As that changes, so will her feelings, we hope. And if it is too late--the only way to KNOW that, is to give it a lot of time WITH good behavior on your end, as well. Then at least if she does not choose you , it won't be b/c she thinks you are reverting to your old ways; but b/c she has really moved on...at this point it sounds like you have a real chance of turning this around or she'd have filed for D by now.
Be careful not to add too many conditions to this sep or she'll say "no, this sep is just a prelude to a divorce, but I'm breakage to you gently."
She MAY think that's what the sep is, but YOU can show her, via your actions, that she'd be nuts to rush into divorce b/c she will SEE that you are changing...
Did I say too much here? Am I agreeing with her too much (with regard to dissolving our marriage)?
Thanks again for your feedback.
Yes You said too much BUT no, you are not agreeing with her too much. (There's a difference).
Do NOT argue as your alternative to speaking too much. Just STFU and LISTEN a lot more.
Get information about what YOU can do to win her back, i.e.. does she enjoy massages or dining out? IF SO, buy her a massage (and learn how to give a good one)...and or take her out to the new restaurant in town. ASK her which she'd prefer doing some night soon.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
"Just STFU" -- I should have that printed at my desk. I do talk too much sometimes -- especially via e-mail. I just have to remember what I learned in DR. Over the past week or so, I've been basically doing LRT.
She had a visit with a cousin and a close friend on back-to-back days. I asked her NOTHING about her visit or her conversation. In fact, it was she who texted me throughout both trips, letting me know her whereabouts at any given time (arrival, going for dinner, coming home, etc.). It was also she who opened up conversations regarding both trips (on the next day after each trip). I was simply cordial, but I did not show any real interest (e.g. I didn't ask ANY questions).
Monday morning, she sent me an e-mail, letting me know that she'll be spending the night Monday, Wednesday, and Friday of this week. I didn't respond to that e-mail.
Monday afternoon, she sent me a text message saying that she just got a raise from her job. I simply texted back "congrats". Deep inside, I think she knows how I feel about the circumstances surrounding that raise (after all, the OM is her manager).
Monday evening, I asked if she planned to eat dinner at home. I ended up making dinner for the two of us. I didn't jump for joy at her raise and didn't say much about it. I simply showed through my actions that I am proud of her and this was my way of "celebrating" (I don't normally make her dinner). Besides, making dinner for the two of us (when I arrive home first) is simply common courtesy, as someone on this board made me realize.
Monday night, she was anxious to leave the house to spend the night with the OM. She promised to put the kids to bed before she goes. Around 10:00PM, she comes into my room with our daughter and says, "here, she wants to sleep with dad". My wife couldn't get out of the house fast enough. I didn't make a stink about it. I said nothing. The old me would probably have sent a criticizing e-mail or text about her priorities as a mother and her parenting skills. But I didn't go there.
This morning, she sends me a text asking how the kids were. I simply said "fine".
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
25 - One comment about why she didn't file for D right away. She has told me that she thought it would be way too cruel.
Why would she be concerned about how cruel it is?
I see two reasons:
1. She still cares for my feelings. 2. She knows how emotional I can be and doesn't want me to do anything extreme. In other words, she's breaking me in gently.
The truth is probably a mixture of the two.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
I know this is a tough time for you, for me as well whether you like to believe it. I am trying very hard to stay together as friends and do the best I can to help you and us through this very emotional time period. I keep going back to the fact we did spend 19yrs together, and for the most of that time I cared deeply for you, and I would hope our last days together under the same roof can be amicable.
She still has a lot of feelings, probably conflicted, for you.
Why does she say, do the best I can to help you? Do you require a lot of help?
Quote:
You are right, it took more than just the infidelity to break me down. Some day you will truly understand what I've been through.
She wishes, even now, that you would "get it." We all want to be understood, to be heard and she's telling you that straight out. What is it you aren't getting?
I would guess you know, you just don't see it the same way she does or, it's not as important to you as it is to her.
25 usually does a good job of outlining those things. Did anything ring bells for you?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
She still has a lot of feelings, probably conflicted, for you.
Why does she say, do the best I can to help you? Do you require a lot of help?
Because throughout our relationship (and particularly in the first few weeks after the bomb was dropped), I've been a wreck and have been emotionally needy and clingy towards her. Over the last week or so, I've done a complete 180 on that -- one time to a point where she was getting upset that I wasn't admitting that I was upset (because she felt I was -- "saw it in your face")
Originally Posted By: labug
She wishes, even now, that you would "get it." We all want to be understood, to be heard and she's telling you that straight out. What is it you aren't getting?
I would guess you know, you just don't see it the same way she does or, it's not as important to you as it is to her.
25 usually does a good job of outlining those things. Did anything ring bells for you?
I think I do get it, but I don't know how to express that to her. That e-mail I shared earlier was the best way I could express it through words. I really am very remorseful about how I played a role in breaking her down emotionally and hurting her repeatedly. I don't know how to make her understand that this is truly the way I feel, and not just empty words.
One thing I'm trying to do is more communication through actions instead of words -- because she's heard the words before. I want to do nice things for her because I really love her. This whole experience has made me realize how much I do love her. At the same time, I know I need to not too much (go overboard) because it's going to simply look like "tactics" to her. And I don't want to come off that way.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
One thing I'm trying to do is more communication through actions instead of words -- because she's heard the words before. I want to do nice things for her because I really love her. This whole experience has made me realize how much I do love her. At the same time, I know I need to not too much (go overboard) because it's going to simply look like "tactics" to her. And I don't want to come off that way.
This is the best course of action.
Sometimes we have to love enough to let them go and wish them well on their journey. Trying to keep her where she doesn't want to be is about what's best for you, not her.
Do you love her that much?
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I really do love her that much. I want to take her to the top of the tallest building and scream out to the world how much I love her. I would literally give up everything I have to have her back as my wife -- my assets, my friends, my career.
I know that I have to let her go in order to have any chance of getting her back. That's what DR (and this forum) has taught me. It's just really, really hard. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, and maybe the hardest thing I'll ever do.
In the beginning, I realize that I had way too many discussions with her -- discussions about my feelings, discussions about our future, discussions about why our marriage failed. I've even talked myself into believing that I never truly loved her, and shared that possibility with her (big mistake). Each time I went down that path, it made sense logically, but it felt so wrong and felt like I was lying to myself. Like 25 said, I just need to STFU and take a breather.
M: 15 years BD: 6/25/14 EA/PA: starts 5/14/14 11/30/14 - A ends 5/15/15 - D is finalized. 11/28/15 - Start of new LTR with a wonderful woman (and still going strong)!
