Wife wants marriage with OM, is there any hope?

[25yearsmlc]

it is SO NOT YOUR PLACE to advise her.

IF you feel compelled to intervene, which seems likely and ought to discussed with your IC b/c to me it just reeks of more manipulation and attempts to control outcomes, THEN refer her here.

Otherwise it just seems as if you are trying go to do as she is doing, to hurt your spouses to punish them...

OMW is in deep pain. Referring her here, is far more advisable than you telling her what to do. Seriously, we can handle it!

And really, as La Bug said, you have a lot on YOUR plate.

How are your 180s and GAL going? And did you say you finished reading the DB or DR book(s) yet? Make sure you do read at least one them, carefully and thoroughly. They need to be read at least once with great care and then later on you can skim. A lot of folks come here and only skim the book for quick fixes not really getting this approach down right.

You need to work this program b/c it works,

and when you mix it up w/other approaches that contradict or conflict with DB, (some of Dobson's advice directly conflicts, for instance) or if you do it only partly, you do so at your peril.

Good luck!

[mindsin]

Why do you think you can or should give advice to OMW?

You've got plenty on your plate.

Because using your young children as psychological weapons is probably the worst thing one can do in a WAS situation.

[25yearsmlc]

Why do you think you can or should give advice to OMW?

You've got plenty on your plate.

Because using your young children as psychological weapons is probably the worst thing one can do in a WAS situation.

so YOU decided that

!) that is what they were doing, and you KNOW this, how?

And 2) YOU decided that YOU knew what was best to do, for them

and 3) YOU appointed YOURSELF as the person to do it, b/c after all, you're the one who knows what is best for all concerned -- and you are SO neutral and detached ---- AND you are a great example of......of what?

Who appointed YOU to all these^^^ tasks?

Don't you see how[b] self serving, self righteous & controlling you sound here?

Are YOU working with an IC on these^^ issues?[/b]

The sooner YOU show change in YOU, the more likely there might someday be a chance for your w to reconsider leaving...but the more you stay stuck in your morally superior role, the more hypocritical you'll appear and the less insight she'll think you have had.

Frankly, the more you use this morally superior zero self awareness approach, the less insight THAT I think you have had.


Take a step back, put your dukes down and breathe....really review your behavior with some objectivity and when you can do that SOME, read what we are trying to tell you and see if you can glean our meaning more.

[mindsin]

I hear you, 25. I know deep down you're right about me, and I'm really trying to be conscious about my actions and reactions. It's really hard for me to stay away and stop trying to influence everything. Thus far, nearly everything I've tried to influence has backfired on me. I really need to take a step outside of myself and really understand the person I am and recognize how different that is from the person I want to be.

[mindsin]

OK, I need some quick advice. Tonight, my WAW wants to finalize the controlled separation agreement (type it out, print it out, get it notarized).

How eager should I be towards this process? Should I just let her do all the work? Should I show her that I am unhappy with this (because I really am)?

I agreed with her last week regarding the controlled separation because I wanted to not provide resistance to her need for space. We agreed on some basic principles, such as division of assets, agreement to live in the same house, agreement to allow each other to date other people, etc.

How do I make it known that I want to give her space, but at the same time, be clear that this is a choice that I'm not ultimately happy with? I also want to make it clear to her that I have no intention of dating anyone.

I'm really uncomfortable with how our evening will look and I'm afraid I may do or say something to derail myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[25yearsmlc]

I stopped bringing up the A to my wife. I try to avoid any and all conversations about the OM/OMW, even though she tries to initiate the discussion at times. It's tempting though.


Really? Why is it tempting? Didn't you notice how each time you do that, it HURTS your cause? And more than that, it makes you look bad.

So next time you think about throwing out a snarky comment, remember that while you may "score" a point and hurt your w, you will do nothing FOR your m, except push her farther away from you...



Regarding the OMW, their situation is almost identical to mine. The OM disclosed to the OMW a month before my wife disclosed to me. My contacts with the OMW have been mostly one-sided (she does most of the talking). My main purpose was mainly for information gathering and to get a deeper look into their relationship and why it failed. The other (bigger) reason is to see what I can say to her to change her approach in an attempt to better her odds at getting her H back. For example, I know that she's been using extremely unhealthy tactics (e.g. showing up at her H's work with the two kids, asking to confront him and my wife). She uses her children against him, putting negative thoughts into their heads regarding the situation and regarding my wife. Children should never be used as weapons in marital conflicts of any type. They're off limits, IMO. Her children are 7 and 4.

Have you ever called your w a nasty name in front of the kids? Ever yell at her, in front of them? Ever?

To answer your other question -- no, I am not really a spiritual person. I don't align myself with any particular religion. You can call me an agnostic.

It's fine to be agnostic (of course) but I was going to suggest that at times when you feel overwhelmed with emotions, that you "turn it over to God" and let Him carry it for you when it gets too heavy. I found that thinking it, then saying it (like in the shower so the kids didn't think I was insane) and hearing myself say it, ALL helped it sink in. It calmed me down for the times I had to interact with h and was nervous.

Maybe you can say "turn it over to the universe" or just "drop the anger" on the curb and LATER ON, IF you want it back then go retrieve it.

But there are times you MUST set it down and not give the anger and mind reading anymore space in your head.

Everyone needs a break at times. So however you describe it, DO let go of the anger, for now. Until you settle some issues at least.

[25yearsmlc]

OK, I need some quick advice. Tonight, my WAW wants to finalize the controlled separation agreement (type it out, print it out, get it notarized).

Who wrote it? Who has reviewed it, (meaning, did either of you retain a lawyer?)
Do you KNOW she has or has not?

How eager should I be towards this process? Should I just let her do all the work? Should I show her that I am unhappy with this (because I really am)?


She knows you are unhappy about it. You gain nothing by again showing that. To repeat, SHE KNOWS HOW YOU FEEL. NO sudden "PMA" will cause doubt in her that soon. Plus, notice your focus again is on you and how YOU feel.

Being miserable is Not attractive, but being "serious" and "concerned" YET civil and cooperative, probably is more believable than pretending to be "Fine"...

Can you pull it off ?--===I mean, not thinking about yourself only AND acting concerned for all parties, (not just angry at her) or moping & wallowing in pity?

IF you cannot treat her civilly, OR IF You cannot resist the urge to say a nasty thing again about her or to her or about OM, then do NOT do this.

Delay it, or just don't do it.

And btw, I'm not clear on why you are formalizing this anyhow. If you can agree to things like temporary custody, why formalize it in writing? It'll make it easier to divorce later, btw, unless one of you changes their mind.



I agreed with her last week regarding the controlled separation because I wanted to not provide resistance to her need for space. We agreed on some basic principles, such as division of assets, agreement to live in the same house, agreement to allow each other to date other people, etc.

How do I make it known that I want to give her space, but at the same time, be clear that this is a choice that I'm not ultimately happy with? I also want to make it clear to her that I have no intention of dating anyone.

Why MUST she know that you won't date anyone? (She DOES NOT need to know that). You said it before. She does not need to hear that again. It's clearly a way for you to try and make her feel guilty, and that will backfire. IT's another method you are using to try to control her. Do you see that? (SHE will)
..... IF you insist you will not date anyone, she'll probably see it as you pretending to be morally superior and your comments will just remind her of the double standards you've applied before and are hell bent on still doing.

As for giving her space BUT not being happy about that, why would you want her to know that? You keep thinking if she knows you are miserable but complying, that means you are what....less selfish?

I think being at peace with her need for space would cause her to see you in a better light a lot more than your desire to ensure she knows how miserable you are. And I believe that she absolutely DOES know you're miserable and it's one reason she wants OUT. So no, I would not remind her of how unhappy you are to be around, anymore than you already have. She knows anyhow, and seeing you CHANGE in some way would be a lot more valuable than more of the same.


I'm really uncomfortable with how our evening will look and I'm afraid I may do or say something to derail myself.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

LISTEN TO HER and then listen some more.

IF she says something that you don't understand fully, OR that you think you dislike, first ask her to "maybe explain that some more so [you] can make sure you understand what she's saying better".

Do not assume all the issues must be worked out in one session. Agree to disagree on some things and table them til later if you must.
WOuldn't it be great if you two actually did some conflict resolution together? What a 180 that would be.

What are the other 180s you'll have a chance to show her tonight? Focus on those and not on the worst case scenarios. You CAN delay this if there's too much to deal with in one night

OR if you don't want to sign it and need to sleep on it . NO biggie. Way better than fighting.

Do NOT get into an argument. Do NOT mention OM's name, even in "jest" b/c it won't get a single laugh and it will sound snarky of you. Show concern for HER wishes and HER need for space.

Show her that you are fairly confident that once she has gotten her space & met OMs, she'll know better, what you can offer AND that is, that marriage to you can be better/different than before -- because you are changing, you are becoming a man only a fool would leave.

You show that by showing change, and no more of the old you.

Make sense?

[MrBond]

"It's really hard for me to stay away and stop trying to influence everything. Thus far, nearly everything I've tried to influence has backfired on me."

Change "influence" to CONTROL. That's what you are doing.

"How do I make it known that I want to give her space,"

By giving her space.

"but at the same time, be clear that this is a choice that I'm not ultimately happy with?"

She already knows that you're unhappy. In fact, she knows that you are going to be unhappy at anything that you can't control or is in your best interests, like the A's.

"I also want to make it clear to her that I have no intention of dating anyone."

I doubt if she'd believe you based on your track record.

"I'm really uncomfortable with how our evening will look and I'm afraid I may do or say something to derail myself."

Validate and listen.

[mindsin]

"but at the same time, be clear that this is a choice that I'm not ultimately happy with?"

She already knows that you're unhappy. In fact, she knows that you are going to be unhappy at anything that you can't control or is in your best interests, like the A's.

Hi MrBond. I just wanted to address this one point. I have indicated to her that I was in agreement with her that separation may be in the best interest for both parties (cooling off period, as we both called it). I've also indicated to her that I hope deep down inside that we could someday reconnect (as husband and wife), even if it's many years from now. I said that even if currently we can't make marriage work, there's no reason why we can't make friendship and co-parenting work.

Did I say too much here? Am I agreeing with her too much (with regard to dissolving our marriage)?

Thanks again for your feedback.

[mindsin]

I'd like to share an e-mail exchange between my WAW and me a few days ago. I'd like to get some of your thoughts/interpretations on this. Reading it back, I feel that I should never have sent the e-mail in the first place.

Me
I am feeling very sad today. In these past weeks, most of my sadness was in the fact that I'm losing my wife -- the fact that all the dreams and goals that I had in my life revolved around you.

Today, more intensely than ever, I feel true remorse for where we are. Specifically, I am remorseful of the person I turned you into. I have broken you down emotionally for years, and I am so sorry. I don't know how many times I can say sorry because I know they are only words. I wish I could fix things and take away your pain. I wish I could get you back to that happy girl that used to hold my hand and snuggle in my arms on a chilly evening. I wish you could someday find it in your heart to forgive me for everything that I have done -- not just the infidelity. I don't know what the answer is. And in the meantime, I'm trying to search my own soul to find out who I am as a person, what I want out of life, and what makes me ultimately happy.

This is an emotional roller coaster that I'm going through. I just hope I find enough strength to keep me sane, and I'm confident that there is indeed a light at the end of this tunnel. I just don't know what it looks like yet.

Her response
I know this is a tough time for you, for me as well whether you like to believe it. I am trying very hard to stay together as friends and do the best I can to help you and us through this very emotional time period. I keep going back to the fact we did spend 19yrs together, and for the most of that time I cared deeply for you, and I would hope our last days together under the same roof can be amicable.

You are right, it took more than just the infidelity to break me down. Some day you will truly understand what I've been through.

I hope a year from now we can be in a better place with each other, and moving forward with our lives.

I will always be your friend, as long as we treat each other respectfully.