Car seats of some kind ARE required for children up to 85 lbs and 4'9" tall in my state. My daughter is 52 lbs and 4' tall so she NEEDS a car seat.
I never said a word to him BUT he took her to karate today and when I got home told me that he put the car seat back in his car. He told me about the other morning where he didn't have the car seat and then said, "I just didn't want you to think I was making a habit out of carting our kid around with no consideration for her safety." I said, "oh, ok. Thanks for installing the seat back in your car." D.o.n.e. See? Resolved itself and I'm glad I STFU. Trust him. My new motto.
25, I want to go through your response line by line with my notebook because you always give me so much to think about and a perspective I hadn't considered before. Thank you though. I will call EE and look further into that. I can do introspection but I struggle with really digging deep. I'm sure I'd get a lot out if it.
On a separate note, h found an apartment. This makes me sad BUT my DB coach suggested I look for the small glimmering signs of positivity so I'm choosing to look at these:
1). He picked an apartment over the condo and house he was looking at BECAUSE he CAN break the lease if need be on the apt but he can't on the house or condo. I choose to see this as a sign that I'm confusing him because he's seeing promise in me but truly it's way too soon for him to trust my changes and I'm realistic about that. Just the idea that he's considering the length of the lease speaks volumes to me.
2). He said he did NOT pick the house or condo because he'd "have to buy all new appliances and that'd be awful if there's any possibility of my coming home after a few months". Ding, ding, ding!!
I'm not being delusional, right? These are real positives, right? Sure, he's moving out and I'd rather he stay but realistically he's working on himself, I'm working on myself and space to do that never hurt anyone, right? PMA!
On Monday I'm going to SF to visit my BFF who just gave birth to her first baby. I'm photographing the baby and family and playing "auntie" for 6 full days!! H gains access to his new rental apt on Tuesday while I'm gone so he said he'd move some stuff in while d is at camp during the day. We agreed NOT to talk to d until my return. I'm really anxious and sad about that. I really wished we could have avoided having to tell her (because in my wish, h wouldn't be moving out) but she's pretty astute so we really need to talk with her. Any advice in this area. I'm physically ill just thinking about it.
I talk to my DB coach on Saturday. This talk with d is consuming my thoughts but I'm trying to focus on enjoying myself while visiting my bestie.
I did something today that I've never done before. H said he'd pick d up from camp, feed her dinner and take her to karate. Normally I stick around to mentally double check and make sure he's where he needs to be on time and that he hasn't forgotten anything, etc. today, I packed up and read in the bookstore for FOUR hours, found a cafe and at dinner alone then hit Sprinkles cupcakes and brought some home. I have never just disappeared like that but in keeping with my 180, I knew h could handle anything that came his way so I let it go. I also GAL!! Two birds, one stone! Hurray for me!!
Car seats of some kind ARE required for children up to 85 lbs and 4'9" tall in my state. My daughter is 52 lbs and 4' tall so she NEEDS a car seat.
I never said a word to him BUT he took her to karate today and when I got home told me that he put the car seat back in his car. He told me about the other morning where he didn't have the car seat and then said, "I just didn't want you to think I was making a habit out of carting our kid around with no consideration for her safety." I said, "oh, ok. Thanks for installing the seat back in your car." D.o.n.e. See? Resolved itself and I'm glad I STFU. Trust him. My new motto.
YAY!!!
25, I want to go through your response line by line with my notebook because you always give me so much to think about and a perspective I hadn't considered before. Thank you though. I will call EE and look further into that. I can do introspection but I struggle with really digging deep. I'm sure I'd get a lot out if it. Introspection is great, but the "experiential" aspects of EE and the continuity one gets from working straight thru a weekend, instead of weekly sessions that can make our progress so fragmented, is a real advantage of weekend workshops.
On a separate note, h found an apartment. This makes me sad BUT my DB coach suggested I look for the small glimmering signs of positivity so I'm choosing to look at these:
1). He picked an apartment over the condo and house he was looking at BECAUSE he CAN break the lease if need be on the apt but he can't on the house or condo. I choose to see this as a sign that I'm confusing him because he's seeing promise in me but truly it's way too soon for him to trust my changes and I'm realistic about that. Just the idea that he's considering the length of the lease speaks volumes to me.
2). He said he did NOT pick the house or condo because he'd "have to buy all new appliances and that'd be awful if there's any possibility of my coming home after a few months". Ding, ding, ding!!
I'm not being delusional, right? These are real positives, right? Sure, he's moving out and I'd rather he stay but realistically he's working on himself, I'm working on myself and space to do that never hurt anyone, right? PMA!
You are not being delusional. I see his comments as positives, absolutely. And if he changed his mind to come home this fast, I would not trust that he really believes he has worked on himself or that you have worked on you enough.
The chance of you reverting to old behaviors is, imo, LESS if you two take a break. I think he believes that too. As long as you see him once a week, it'll be easier (not harder) for him to notice your changes b/c you will NOT have ANY negative images to support his departure.
You will be contrasting his negative images with positive data he'll get from the interactions you two have, which will be easier for you to manage, by not having to be the new improve perfect you, 24/7 right away. Solidify your changes so when you two are together, you don't backslide. I think it's easier to make AND to notice changes in our spouses when we are not together ever minute.
Maybe it's just my PMA talking but it worked for me, and I think you have no choice now anyhow, so CHOOSE a PMA b/c it cannot hurt and it may be the positive difference you need.
On Monday I'm going to SF to visit my BFF who just gave birth to her first baby. I'm photographing the baby and family and playing "auntie" for 6 full days!! H gains access to his new rental apt on Tuesday while I'm gone so he said he'd move some stuff in while d is at camp during the day. We agreed NOT to talk to d until my return. I'm really anxious and sad about that. I really wished we could have avoided having to tell her (because in my wish, h wouldn't be moving out) but she's pretty astute so we really need to talk with her. Any advice in this area. I'm physically ill just thinking about it.
The advice we got from a family therapist was to stress to her what would NOT change in HER life, despite you two living apart. First off, she's not moving, right? And since you are NOT discussing divorce at this time, you do not tell her you are. You say you are "taking a break to work on getting along better" (Which is also true). "No one is talking about a divorce now".
And tell her if she's staying in the same school, neighborhood, church, that those things are STILL the same. Maybe the only difference is that "Daddy has an apartment now", but you are "Still a family". Be clear about when her dad will for sure see her (and then add times if it allows but make darn sure he IS available when dates are given in advance).
And don't fall apart. A lot of how she feels will mirror how YOU act. My attitude would be "concerned, but cautiously optimistic".
You are concerned b/c you know you Do have a lot of things to work on and you take it seriously, you are cautious for those reasons too. But you are also optimistic, b/c you feel you have already made some inroads and had some valuable insights, AND you Do have the desire to change.
If your h isn't closed minded to it, if he remains open to the chance that you two can repair your r, then it's a really important opportunity to become a close, happily m couple. Without this crisis and this change and all this effort, that probably would never have happened...
I talk to my DB coach on Saturday. This talk with d is consuming my thoughts but I'm trying to focus on enjoying myself while visiting my bestie.
I did something today that I've never done before. H said he'd pick d up from camp, feed her dinner and take her to karate. Normally I stick around to mentally double check and make sure he's where he needs to be on time and that he hasn't forgotten anything, etc. today, I packed up and read in the bookstore for FOUR hours, found a cafe and at dinner alone then hit Sprinkles cupcakes and brought some home. I have never just disappeared like that but in keeping with my 180, I knew h could handle anything that came his way so I let it go. I also GAL!! Two birds, one stone! Hurray for me!!
That is impressive!!! You know I wonder what your "pay off" was before when you micro managed everything. Hmm, needing to feel crucial? I doubt it was intentionally disrespectful to your h, but idk, was it intentional?
I think it was more about you wanting to feel vitally important AND OR b/c you have a strong need to be in control of things.
Did you say your childhood was chaotic? I tend to find more women who are controlling, come from homes where they had no control over what happened to them growing up...
no excuse, just a question about why, in the first place. IF you can identify what the pay off was or why the "need" for such mega management, you might find it easier to drop it off at the "Goodwill" b/c it's not serving you well anymore.
Food for thought. All in all, WELL DONE. You are not spending time defending your self and you are identifying things you must work on, pretty fast. You might turn this thing around.
And even if, by some chance, you don't, you're still so much better off not taking on the chores of the world. YOU will be happier after this ordeal, no matter what.
You will be a better woman for all this. No small thing.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
That is impressive!!! You know I wonder what your "pay off" was before when you micro managed everything. Hmm, needing to feel crucial? I doubt it was intentionally disrespectful to your h, but idk, was it intentional?
I think it was more about you wanting to feel vitally important AND OR b/c you have a strong need to be in control of things.
[color:#6600CC]In response to this ^^^ above, I think my constant intervening with H when it came to things with our daughter began when she was VERY little. He was very flustered and forgetful when it came to her. He'd want to take her to the park at 12/13 months to play but he'd forget the diaper bag or a snack or a hat and then he'd come home sooner than he wanted saying it wasn't any fun because he was stressed out the whole time so I started trying to anticipate and "make things easier" by giving him everything he needed (diaper bag, snacks, drinks, sun screen, extra hats, outfit changes, etc) so it would be fun for them both which would allow me to relax at home and have a break which I desperately needed. If he was stressed and unprepared, then when he came home with her I'd have a lot to deal with (his stress, frustration, her tantrum, over tiredness, hunger, etc. He'd hand her to me screaming and he'd go off for a "break" after he just spent 1 hour alone with her. I felt abandoned and left to clean up the mess of his lack of planning/preparation so I took on the role of "preparer" so things would be easier for us both. It has just become habitual now. So if I say, "Would you be able to take d to piano on Tuesday" and he agrees to, he has NO IDEA that she needs to bring her book and her homework. D is almost 7 so some of the responsibility can fall on her but sometimes she'll grab her book but not the homework or she'll grab her karate uniform but not her belt... so I make sure it's all there so it's easier for everyone. It's HARD to let it go.
Part of the difficulty is that he doesn't really care that much if it's all there. HE doesn't care if she doesn't have her piano homework when he takes her because next week I'll take her and she'll have it then so to him the problem is solved. That thinking frustrates me. He will admit he's forgetful and suffers from severe ADHD. It has been a point of contention since d was born that lack of planning on his part becomes an emergency on my part.
I'm making a conscious effort to minimize the size of that issue for my own sake by letting as much go as I possibly can and I'm doing a pretty good job but the reality is, he fumbles the ball A LOT. He has done a great job the last two weeks and there will be setbacks. I can be less critical and I WILL because criticizing him doesn't solve the problem and only hurts our relationship - I've learned that. But how do I address my frustration with how much I need to help him help me? Asking him to take d to karate means just that to him. To take her. To me it includes packing water for her, making sure her uniform, belt and flip flops are all in a bag to she can change after camp, if it's the late class I'll pack a snack, bring something for myself to read during the class. You know! You're a mom, 25... this is mom 101 stuff. It's just not important to him.
Did you say your childhood was chaotic? I tend to find more women who are controlling, come from homes where they had no control over what happened to them growing up...
My brothers and I were horribly abused by my mother when we were kids and my father did nothing about it. Later my mother was charged with abuse and my father charged with neglect. I was removed from the home by DCS and placed in foster care. My parents picked up and fled the state so as not to have to reimburse the state for my care. They left me in CA at age 16 and moved back to Atlanta with my younger brother (my older brother was in college in PA). Does that explain things a little? No excuses, for sure. The micromanaging isn't serving me just as you say below, but I need his HELP and I feel that his half efforts make things harder on ME. Does that make sense?
no excuse, just a question about why, in the first place. IF you can identify what the pay off was or why the "need" for such mega management, you might find it easier to drop it off at the "Goodwill" b/c it's not serving you well anymore.
Food for thought. All in all, WELL DONE. You are not spending time defending your self and you are identifying things you must work on, pretty fast. You might turn this thing around.
And even if, by some chance, you don't, you're still so much better off not taking on the chores of the world. YOU will be happier after this ordeal, no matter what.
You will be a better woman for all this. No small thing.[/color] [/quote]
On a separate note, H is seeming very distant since yesterday. I'm trying to tell myself that everyone has their ups and downs and there's a lot going on right now, lots to think about and consider so on one hand, I understand. On the other hand it makes me nervous. Maybe my efforts toward change aren't going to be enough. Maybe he's depressed. Only time will tell and I'm committed to having patience but interpreting his quietness is hard. I asked him about it yesterday evening and he said he's just thinking a lot, which I get. I can only hope a tiny bit of hope is blooming in him and is quietness makes me doubt that's happening.
When I come back from SF next Saturday we are telling our daughter and he's officially moving into his apartment that night. That's going to be a rough night. Maybe that's what he's thinking about. If so, that'd make me quiet and pensive, too.
::sigh:: this process is HARD on the heart (and there's no OP in our mix so I know it could be MUCH harder). I just hope I'm strong enough for all of it.
Feeling really sad tonight. H went into work this morning, has been gone all day. At 6:15 he said he was having a scotch with a friend and would head home after that. Three hours later he's not home. No call to say goodnight to d. I texted to see if he was ok. He said he's fine but he got to talking and sipping and he's not sober enough to drive yet.
Ok, I'm glad he's not driving. That's good. But I'm leaving tomorrow morning for 6 days, he's been gone all day. It's just hitting me that it's pretty obvious he doesn't care much. That makes me sad.
The part that actually hurts the most is that my daughter doesn't even ask where he is anymore. He's always at work and rarely home to even tuck her into bed. I know he loves her but gosh, he's just not there for her. His taking her to karate or even to camp is a very new thing, only since BD. He is home maybe once every three weeks for dinner.
Do I even matter to him? I know he loves our d but he doesn't really seem to want to be involved with her.
He seems to just want to pursue his career. He's always at work, always "having a drink with the guys at the studio", working late.
Please drop by and lend some butt kicking words. I could really use some guidance and support. I'm starting to lose hope. I'm not feeling as buoyant as I was and it's frightening.
H drove me to the airport yesterday for my trip to SF to visit my bff. usually he just drops me off at skycap and that's that. This time he parked, walked me in, made sure I was situated and it seemed a little weird but I was appreciative and thanked him for helping me out with my bag and waiting with me to get it checked. The hug when he left was SUPER awkward. That hurts because I was in desperate need of a good hug but it was like hugging some dude I met yesterday.
He called me at D's bedtime so I could say goodnight. I asked about her day and all that. Somehow the subject of Zyrtec came up, she said something about how daddy gave her some. I had given her some that morning and it's a 24 hour med so she shouldn't have had more. H got on the phone and I told him she'd had some that morning, how much did he give her. He said 5 mL. I had given her 10 mL that morning and was worried because that's way too much. He got mad at D for not telling him (she's 6). I said, "Please call Poison Control". He got mad and said, "Oh, she's FINE!". I reacted and said, "Either you call or I'll call". He said, "ok" and hung up. He texted me a bit later saying poison control said she'd be fine. I thanked him for calling. This morning I texted him an apology saying, "I apologize for snapping at you yesterday. I was very worried and scared. I appreciate you calling poison control and taking care of that. What a good lesson for us both about communicating more about medicine. I could have done a much better job about that."
His response: "Indeed a good lesson, we'll both have to practice that one more."
I feel like I've lost my footing and I'm in a flat spin falling out of the sky. I feel like he absolutely HATES me. I don't think he's noticing my changes and even if he does, I know he doesn't believe their lasting. Why should he after I snapped at him like I did. I feel like I'm only as good as my last mistake.
I am really trying to get out of this mental hole I'm in. Visiting my friend and her new baby is helping me keep my mind off things but at the same time it's a startling reminder of how NOT helpful and supportive H was when our D was born.
My heart hurts and aches. I can't eat again and I'm not sleeping. I feel like anything I do just solidifies his belief that we're no good together. I know i need to do more but I feel like I'm floundering. I feel resentful of him and our situation. Yes, I know I had a HUGE part in putting us here and this time is necessary to get to a better place but I need to work through my resentment. It's not helping me but ignoring it isn't helping me either. I'm hurt, angry and very, very sad.
I need some 2x4s and support. How can I redirect my feelings to be more productive? I know i'm grasping because our separation is imminent and that makes me uncomfortable. I just want to scream and throw things and let him know that I HURT TOO but so much of our relationship was about my feelings and not his, at least that's how he feels and I need to honor that. Where do I put all this resentment and frustration?
I want us to work out down the road but right now I'm sitting at a huge road block. I have no idea how to navigate it. I'm feeling stuck. What next?
without having read more at the moment, let me post to you about detachment.
II. Detachment Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done.
Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals. We cannot control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness.
If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love. Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that I alone am responsible for how I act. I can not control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
And another piece on Detachment:
What is detachment? Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational, (or from what I perceive to be that way).
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S.
* Developing and maintaining a safe, emotional distance from S, to whom I have previously given too much power to affect my emotional outlook on life.
* Establishing emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us are better able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I can see S falter and or fail, and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for it.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.
* Placement of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective; letting go of trying to control the uncontrollable, and or unchangeable realities of life.
* Ability to maintain self control & exercise emotional self-protection so as not to be more hurt by having a relationship run its' course, or from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for, accept personal responsibility for their own actions, even when when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who S "really is" rather than who I "want S to be."
* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by S, who in the past has been overly dependent or enmeshed with me.
Detachment is NOT "not caring what happens" it is NOT indifference, it is NOT coldness. Detachment is a form of freedom, including the freedom that belongs to others, freedom to soar to new heights or fall to new depths.
Detachment allows us to fail without affecting others, and allows others to fail without affecting US.
Hope this helps some...now, back to your thread...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I printed this out, 25, because I really struggle with detaching. I can't mentally figure out how to detach and still love. And are you supposed to remain detached while piecing and back together? Is that the healthy way to keep from becoming I meshed and codependent? Are you detached, 25, now that your marriage is on so,I'd ground? I can't wrap my head around that. I know it's what works in this stage I'm in so that I'm not looking too deeply at what is said or not said and focus on changes I need to make. That makes sense. In the next stage though, am I to remain detached? HOW do YOU do it, 25? I mean, it makes sense and sounds healthy and strong on paper but it's hard to execute for sure.
I totally can see how detaching can help me not react. I need that and KNOW it will help me. I just don't see how detaching works long term. I need to process this deeper... Or maybe just stop because I tend to overthink.
I still don't see how detaching works long term. Man, it's hard.
Hey, Ss, I've been following your sitch. I'm sorry you are where you are.
It's too soon to think about detachment in piecing, but if you read and understand the piece 25years posted, you'll see that it has less to do with being loving and more to do with preserving your own individuality and respecting the other person's individuality.
I have actually been practicing some detachment with my kids and it's made me a much better parent. If they act up I take it less personally so I can correct them more effectively. I see them more clearly, appreciate and enjoy them more, notice them more fully. It's very freeing and we're enjoying one another much more.
It is true that it's not easy. It occurs in layers and there is struggle at each level. But it helps, a lot.
Like yours, my H complained a lot about how emotional I got. But it was a push-pull process -- the more neglected I felt the louder I complained. So take responsibility for the changes you can make, absolutely, but detach also, so that you're making them to be more whole within yourself, and not to win him back.
Work at it and welcome the separation as something that will make detaching possible -- I couldn't do it while H was living with me, and if it's got to happen then you'd best make good use of it.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Maybell, thank you for stopping by! I'm following your sitch, too. I appreciate your wisdom and strength in all you're facing.
I totally know it's way too soon to think about piecing, I was only asking that because I was wondering if marriage, long term was supposed to be an exercise in detachment. How is that possible? Like you, I see it giving me patience with my daughter and even with myself. It makes good sense, I'm just curious about how it translates long term into a healthy, working, strong marriage. Stepping back enough to allow the other to simply be who they are is fine, I can do that but I'm really struggling to know where the line is between detaching healthily and turning off emotionally from caring. It's almost like I want to see it in action so I can execute and emulate it. You know? Wouldn't that be great? A YouTube video of a detached marriage relationship. Yeah, that'd really help me right now.
Hi Ss06, just checking in on your story, thanks for visiting mine!
As far as your H moving out, I think it might be a positive. And it sounds from what he said that he is not thinking of it as absolutely a permanent move so that is great! Lucky you!
The space will give you time to think, to work on yourself and to get some calmness.
It sounds to me like you have very good reasons to micromanage, but I think that you should definitely work on that tendency. First of all it stresses you out to always anticipate what may happen and be totally prepared. (it's part of being a mom of course) And also it effects the people you micromanage. They become passive. And stressed. So it doesn't work in your favor at all. But I know this is a super difficult thing to change. Baby steps and small wins. Like your Sprinkles cupcake story. You have to let it go sometimes and just trust that it will work out. Maybe not the way YOU would have preferred but people have to make their own mistakes and suffer the consequences in order to learn for next time. I'm not so much a micromanager myself but I have close friends and family members who are and I see the effects. I too can also fall into this pattern sometimes, and I am working on not doing it! It's HARD but usually the payoff is good for peace within yourself and more freedom and independence for others.
Enjoy SF and keep us updated! Hugs, LisaB
Me: 34 H: 30 M: 4 years BD: 6/15/14 He moved out 6/30/14 OW1: EA then PA after BD Now he's dating multiple OWs I'm over it and moving on.
