I enjoyed my weekend with D2. When I picked her up on Friday, the crèche said D2 had been excited all day. They also said she’d been confused yesterday and when WAW came to collect her, D2 started crying that she wanted “Daddie” and threw herself on the floor crying. I was sorry to hear D2 becoming upset, but I am happy that we’ve a bond given the very limited amount of time we see each other.
I dropped D2 off at WAW’s place on Sunday. WAW asked me to stay for a drink. I’ve been feeling very rough from this cold-type virus so she suggested a lemon, honey and ginger and I accepted. D2 was happy enough.
I tend to leave WAW to raise topics to discuss as I feel insecure talking to her. I try to act “as if” I’m happy and focus on positives in responding. But I don’t feel particularly creative (perhaps worse with cold/headache). Anyway, WAW asked the normal polite questions about the weekend and I responded. She asked me “How is your job?” and I’ll admit that prior to entering I didn’t really want to talk about that (as I am struggling), but when she asked I didn’t want to lie. I said, “That’s a difficult question.” She replied, “ok, sorry, I brought it up. I was only trying to make conversation.” I didn’t want to seem too cagey or secretive so I talked about the Auckland opportunity and how I had turned it down. I went onto say that were I to make a significant move for my career, I would be more tempted to return London.” She replied by saying that she was happy in her role. That the law firm was being very understanding about her part time work, and the challenges of having a D2. I said that I was happy for her, but that I didn’t have a parental role, nor a particularly satisfying job, so my situation was different. She replied “Well that’s a different set of choices for you then, isn’t it.” I was feeling very flat about that response and the conversation generally. But I just said, “Yes.” Not long after I thanked her for the drink, kissed D2 goodbye and left.
Perhaps given the sickness or the cold night, or missing D2 again, or a sense of hopelessness, I sobbed back in my car.
I want: • to be a good father and I can be. I have over a year of looking after D2 without incident to support that. • a stimulating job. I feel undervalued and unstimulated here. My hometown is small and not really suitable to my skills. I don’t really want to re-train.
I would also love for my WAW to come to see that our S is not reducible to my bad behaviour and that I did many good things too. Her simplification of the situation and lack of ability to communicate is very sad, and I fear about how it might affect D2 in the future (if D2 feels a lack of emotional connection, or if D2 does something that WAW is unable to forgive and simply cuts her from her life.
I know this is not in my control, and that I’ve to lovingly detach. I will continue. The lack of knowledge about WAW’s experience and her ongoing refusal to talk is shattering. Got to GAL when I’m less sick. Apologies for the sorry for myself post.
I’m emerging slowly but surely from my sick bed. My goodness - I’ve not had a cold like that for as long time! I feel really grateful for my health.
I took D2 out for lunch on Friday and had a nice time, albeit brief. WAW later emailed me to request that I let her know each time I’m going to do that and she didn’t know about the lunch. In response I expressed sorrow for any concern she felt and suggested perhaps ‘wires were crossed’ as I thought we’d agreed that. I suggested that we have a presumption that I will take D2 to lunch on Friday on weeks I don’t have her at the w/end and, if it would be better for a day that’s non-Friday – due to work for example, I would let WAW know the night before. WAW replied that yes perhaps wires were crossed and she was happy with all that.
I always let WAW know (via txt) that D2 has gone to sleep fine whenever I am looking after her. Like giving WAW more information about these lunches, I can feel a bit 'controled' and it’s not something she does for me. However, I’m happy to do it if it makes WAW feel better. I hope it also might foster trust or happiness with me looking after D2, which would be good for me.
More generally, I guess I see WAW’s struggle with fears more clearly than I did before & I want to support that in a way that works (at least as much as I can given it is her life). When things were really bad, I allowed anger and resentment to mask my pains whereas (in my view) WAW allowed fear to consume her e.g.1 she'd never want to let anyone down at work/at home so end up withno boundaries/work incredibly long hours without question to the detriment of not only the marriage but her own physical health. e.g.2 believe ‘irrational’ fears: she said to my sister shortly after BD that she thought I would steal D2 from her. Yes, I’ve been verbally abusive and not a good husband or communicator – particularly in the last 6 months before BD, but I’d never do that. That I’d contributed to her thinking that I could or would is devastating and showed me how much work I needed to do on me and just how destructive my anger was. I want to say (for balance :)) when we were in a good space, we were really complementary. WAW is practical, intelligent and organised. I’m ambitious, idealist, and spontaneous. She inspired me to do something with my ambition. I like to think that I helped her to reveal herself her feelings/needs more. About 3 years into our marriage, she shared that she’d composed some music when she was at secondary school and we listened to it. I know that this was hard for her, but it was cathartic too.
For some reason in my reply re lunch arrangements, I thought what the heck, and asked her if she’d like to share dinner with D2 and I on Saturday night. D2 and I will be together alone (my parents and sister are all away) and I thought it could be good – also for D2 to see us together at a time that’s not a hand-over. I felt alright about WAW declining too.
Anyway, WAW’s come back to ask if she could attend a lunch rather than dinner. I’m happy that she has done this & am happy to change to lunch. I will try to make it nice (as I would even if she wasn’t coming). I’ve no expectations and I’ll make sure I don’t put too much pressure on myself about it too. There will be no R talk at all. I want to make the most of this opportunity to seem like a ‘good bloke’ (kiwi for ‘a man who only a fool would leave’):)
Hi Well the lunch went well. WAW arrived on time and seemed fairly relaxed and convivial. We talked about various things, her work, my work, D2’s crèche. There’s a parents day at D2’s crèche and WAW indicated a desire to go, and for me to attend also. I’m keen for that as I feel that I don’t know the crèche carers as well as I’d like and it could be a good opportunity. D2 was really happy at the lunch too and WAW will have observed that we get on well. Weirdly, I was conscious that I still find WAW attractive. I quite liked that because after all this challenge and toil, it’s good that part hasn’t gone. I guess I did find the conversation an effort too, though. It’s hard to endure (for want of a better word) the boundaries and the inability to talk about the future, but I did do that and I do think it’s the only way I’ll be able to re-establish trust. She did thank me for what she called “a lovely lunch”. So yeah, I’m happy that I did that and she felt good about it.
Generally, my weekend with D2 was fun. It’s certainly challenging at times looking after a toddler, but I do enjoy it. She really is a joy and I love her so much.
The handover last night was a bit unusual. There are limited areas to park close to WAW’s apartment block. When I arrived, WAW’s landlord(?) was outside cleaning the building with a hose where I normally park. I asked him if it was ok to park and he was irritated and surly as I was interrupting his job. I said I’d only be five minutes and he accepted that. So I handed over D2 and her materials quickly (and let WAW know why). WAW seemed perhaps(?) a little disappointed, I’m not sure, she did say “Well ‘next time’ then”. We also both laughed as D2 said something humorous about me leaving. After thanking the landlord I drove off. On some occasions, I do really struggle with feeling glum during the handover / leaving D2. So in a way, I was not unhappy that this was brief as I wasn’t sure I could maintain being “upbeat”. My house felt really empty and with some of her toys scattered about the place. I decided to get out and had a pizza and red wine as comfort. I didn’t feel great about that this morning, but I enjoyed watching the world cup final.
I’m not going to the gym tonight, but I will return for my first session tomorrow after being out for several weeks sick. The gym is the perfect place to go after a D2 handover and managing frustrations.
In other news, my old boss from London is also coming out to NZ this week. We’re going on a week long holiday together. I am looking forward to the distraction and change of scene. This guy is very intelligent. He does care about me, and has good advice. It will be interesting to hear what he says about my situation. No doubt it will come up at some point.
So overall, positive weekend DBing. Here’s to a good week for us all. Keep at it!
I had a good trip with my old boss from the UK. It felt longer than a week and was refreshing to have a change of scene. The old boss didn’t offer specific advice, though he did offer support. He said that old work colleagues in London respect what I’ve done, and that I should allow time for things to work out. We focussed on things I could do in my current role that would help it to look good. We also discussed projects that could be done as research for possible future options. One thing he said was that aspects of WAW’s behaviour that are controlling are likely linked to her prior (or continuing) experience of feeling so out of control. I know the comment is speculative, but I find it helpful insofar as it emphasises the nature of WAW’s journey being her own now. At times I experience what I consider to be controlling defensively b/c I do feel guilty, sad, useless etc. for my contribution to her hurt. However, this guilty, sad, useless (and hence defensive feelings) vibe doesn’t help me to DB and is doesn’t help WAW with her stuff. Stay in your own sandbox.
When on holiday, I did txt WAW to see if D2 was ok. I got a rather perfunctory reply, but as I’ve stated that is a style thing of WAW (i.e., no need to think it’s bad). I held off sending anything more.
I did miss D2 though (as my weekend with her was taken up by the trip). However, last night WAW asked me to send her a photo of me from the holiday – as D2 has been asking about me and being on holiday. She also asked if I might be up for some babysitting over the weekend. I was really happy that both of these things happened.
I also understand she communicated with my sister about having my sister’s son over for a play session with D2. My sister’s son is almost the same age as D2 and they often spent time together when I look after D2 as I enjoy my sister’s company. I thought it was great that WAW felt comfortable enough to do that. (my sister and WAW were friends (still are?) but WAW hasn’t contacted her much since the separation, so this was all positive.
So, yeah. At the end of my holiday I felt refreshed but also sad about the lack of contact with WAW and D2. But two days later I there has been positive movements.
WAW and I separated since 27 December 2012. 19 months on and still, very much, standing for reconciliation and being there for D2. I don’t want people to be put off by my timeframe. When I first came to this place, I really struggled with the time. But I also wasn’t really sure what I wanted/who I was/what was important. There’s no rules apart from that being patient is a life long desirable trait. I’ve seen people do far better jobs at DB than I’ve done and sort things more quickly. I’m no vet. Every situation is different. Like many others, mine is a marathon and the hardest thing I’ve done, but I feel like I’ve discovered/ing so much and I’m grateful.
My mum back from a holiday in England on Wednesday. I took the day off work to meet her at the airport. I asked WAW if I could have D2 for the day to accompany me, and to hang out in the morning. I said that I intended to do that and prior would take D2 to “Junglerama” with her cousin (my sister’s son). WAW said it sounded lovely and agreed to it. I was really pleased.
On the morning, I picked up D2. WAW informed me D2 was wearing knickers (as opposed to nappies) and this was the new situation as toilet training has been underway. It was a shock for me and I felt quite unprepared. I expressed some of this and said ‘I would like to speak to you [WAW] about D2’. WAW pulled a face and indicated that it wasn’t clear to her what we needed to discuss. I didn’t respond. As I was driving away, all these questions about toilet training were firing in my head.
When I got to my sister’s, I sent WAW a factual message with questions – largely concerning WAW’s approach. I said that I didn’t mean to be over the top, but wanted to ensure D2’s comfort and not to detract from WAW’s efforts by doing things badly. WAW called me up in response. She seemed relaxed and, I think, a little apologetic for being brisk at the handover about all this. She said my questions were completely fair enough. The phone call was good.
D2 and I and everyone else had a really fun day. Mum was really happy with the surprise too. When I was handing back D2, WAW asked me in for a tea. I declined politely – as my neighbours were coming around. I did say that I’d ensure I could have tea in the future as I’d like to do that. It was brief but pleasant.
I sent WAW an email saying thanks again for the day. I then explained that the toilet training hadn’t gone that well (nothing major). I asked more questions about her approach, etc. WAW sent me back a thorough email. I replied with thanks saying it was helpful and reassuring (which it was).
WAW hasn’t wanted to co-parent to date, but as I don’t want to pursue that legally, I’ve found myself ‘catching-up’ with her decisions at times, and doing my best to make that work. I’ve struggled with the lack of input, but I’ve also better at not sweating the small stuff. And I do trust WAW as a great mother (even if we would have different approaches).
25’s 'be ‘right’ or be happy' is really helpful for me. Prior to the separation, being right was a major thing. I guess I’m far more inclined to pick my battles now and rather than producing a sense of giving up or failure. I’m just more comfortable in a broader range of situations and less judgemental.
This morning, WAW let me know she’s going to Auckland (1 hour flight away) while I’ve D2 this weekend. I thanked her for letting me know and said ‘have a good time’. She replied ‘you too’. D2’s crèche is in the building I work. They expressed some concern with where WAW had left the carriage this morning. This was a bit odd as we’ve been leaving it there for almost a year. I sent WAW a message about it which was jokey. She replied with a jokey message. I sent another jokey txt and so did she.
Basically feel happy with these recent events. It feels like it’s getting better. Baby steps!
I’m look forward to the weekend with D2 and my mum back from holiday. I’ve been going to the gym a lot this week so am physically tired and looking forward to a rest. I’ve my work’s Ball on Saturday evening too. I’m feeling a bit conscious of going by myself. There are some good people and it should be fun.
Keep up your DBing all. Stay strong. Have a good weekend.
The weekend with D2 was fun. I spent the majority of it at my mum’s place. D2 is getting more and more interactive and is classic to be around and play with.
The handover on Sunday evening was tough for me. I try really hard to act “as if” and keep it light and cheerful. I think I did an alright job at this, but I do find it very hard and probably could have been better. I know I’m doing it for a good purpose (to help WAW feel safe/build trust) and to not be fake or in denial. But it feels fake and there seems so little for us to work with when these infrequent ‘conversations’ continue to be superficial. The lunch I arranged a few weeks ago was easier for me as D2 didn’t leave and it was during the day etc. I will think about doing another one of those, but after sufficient time has passed.
Back to focus on me this week. Go to the gym, keep busy at work. I turn 36 next week. I’m in a better place than a year ago.
• After a dinner party on Saturday night with some friends, I invited (via FB messenger) to attend a concert with me. She replied the following morning “I think probably not. But thanks for asking. I hope you’re having a good weekend.” I replied “Sure – let me know if you change your mind. I’m having good weekend thanks. Please give my regards to my little sack of potatoes [D2]”. WAW replied with one of those ‘thumbs up’ signs. I’m aware that it was a bit non-LRT to reach out with a concert request. But I wanted to ‘temperature check’ and convey in some non-threatening manner that I still like her in that way. Because I do. I think/hope the whole communication was good. I’ll go to the concert anyway and enjoy it. I might ask for a coffee in the next couple of weeks to catch-up. I’m interested in WAW’s experiences with D2 also. • After the call, WAW asked me to babysit next Thursday. She also commented on some actions a group of parents from D2’s crèche given the crèche has to relocate. These parents had sought an official information request to understand why the owner of the building made the decision. WAW’s view was that there was a risk the action could offend the owner, and so it was an action of dubious merit. She also asked ‘what do you think’ I wrote the following:
I agree with your perspective on the ‘official information request’. Yes, perhaps we now know the reasons for the decision are flimsy (even taking into account my bias perspective to keep the crèche where it is), but how does knowing that help the crèche? I can only suggest the parents wanted to (a) understand the ‘unliked’ decision and (b) through that, contest it in some rational way – so that the decision makers would come around to the ‘right’ answer. It’s an understandable, but somewhat naïve approach – it’s the owner’s decision and it’s understandable (even if imperfectly considered). As you allude (and certainly it has been a lesson for me), contesting decisions you don’t like needs to be balanced against (or considered as part of) your personal priorities and objectives for the future. Also, how you contest is really important. Politicians are perhaps more aware of this than your average person, however. Perhaps politicians have a lot of experience to see how there are no completely perfect decisions (at least someone loses from some decision), no ‘rational’ decisions either and that getting on with other people is constructive and pleasant. That said I wonder if the wars around the world suggest this is a difficult lesson indeed.
WAW replied with ‘sounds good’ and ‘thanks very much’.
I hope I don’t come across as preachy or pompous with that reply. It is what I think about it (and that subject) anyway.
So, in summary, I have had basically two good interactions with WAW and I’m grateful. The crèche is having a meeting to discuss at the end of September and I’ll attend, and I suspect WAW will, too.
• In terms of me: o I have applied for a new job in my hometown and where D2 is based. An attractive job came across my desk and it especially desirable due to being in my hometown. I don’t feel ready to leave and yet my current job isn’t going anywhere for me/has been a let down. I have felt really positive about this ‘better job in hometown’ scenario though and have resolved to be more actively looking for opportunities, and fingers crossed for this one. o I’m feeling more ‘relaxed’ about my journey and life. It’s fair to say that I feel fundamentally that this is a ‘transition’ period, but I’m increasingly alright with allowing that transition to take place at the pace it needs. I want to fix things that need fixing (if possible) rather than hope that wholesale change will make everything good by itself. I do prefer myself and am happier in my own skin than I was in December 2012. & yes it’s easier for me – no stress from work, no continuous parenting, no wife at work all the time, no in-laws. But, I also think I’d be better anyway because this life has it’s own challenges: sense of loss, sense of loneliness; pain & guilt, for example. But I don’t use resentment or anger anymore as a crutch. I force myself to try and be more genuinely empathetic, patient and kind (including to myself) and it’s like being on a holiday compared to how things were. o My sleeping could be better. I seem to either need lots of exercise or alcohol to go to sleep at night. So perhaps I’m not as relaxed as I’d hoped. Exercise still winning most of the time – less so on the weekends. o My birthday went well. A lot of comments from Facebook from people wishing me well. WAW sent me a video of D2 wishing me happy birthday when she was having her breakfast, which was adorable. Saw D2 at lunch and brought her and her class some sweets. Had a lovely evening with my mum and sister.
Best wishes to you all with your DBing!
With love and patience, nothing is impossible. Daisaku Ikeda
Hi all, I’ve been having a tough time recently. I have been feeling really sad about things. In part, it’s triggered by how much I love being around D2. We’d a lovely weekend together and on Sunday I had my mum and dad over for tea. Handing D2 over continues to be really hard.
But I continue to face the quandary of knowing that WAW is going to be sad (and likely fight) by any reduction in time she has with D2. I don’t want to involve lawyers. But I guess that position may feel right to revisit if WAW proceeds to formalise our separation into a divorce. The increasingly likelihood of that is also very confusing and sad for me. It seems so foolish and WAW is not a fool.
I asked WAW to have a coffee and she ignored the request. I thought it was unfriendly and it hurts that she continues to harbour so much hurt and or fear.
My sister has also recently had her second child. Despite them being good friends in the past, WAW didn’t contact her at all about it. Also sad/unfriendly. I know it is ‘mind reading’ though I think WAW feels pain/resentment about my sister having another child. Not long after WAW left me she talked to my sister. It was a lunch when she said I was abuser – she has that Lundy Bancroft book. She also said she was sad because she’d never have more children. It’s been the only time she’s opened up to anyone I know about her feelings on the situation and I was grateful that she did (and told her so via email). I also immediately started efforts to address this bad behaviour. I’ve come a very long way on addressing that. I understand that it’s not acceptable to blame or project my negative feelings on to others. I also have taken on more responsibility for negative feelings – seeing the importance of exercise and family and friends in my life (verses, loneliness and exclusive focus on work & money).
That said, it’s so sad to me that she’s clinging onto this abuser picture of me (irrespective of everything I’ve done). Not only is it an over simplification of our situation, it keeps her trapped in what appears to be an unhappy life. I know that it’s her journey and I respect that. I do feel anxious about the effects on D2 and how it might impact D2 in the future. And obviously, as I love WAW it’s tragic that I can’t help her find a way to peace and happiness.
I guess I’ve just to keep on being kind and positive. I’ll probably go darker too. I think this is sub-optimal because I think as we’ve a daughter it would be good to get better at talking during “peace” times, so we can be more robust when there are difficult decisions. Surely a friendship is possible? But perhaps I’ve just got to relax and go back to last resort technique and detaching.
It’s funny how the sadness comes on in waves. The coffee thing really hurt me as I thought we were making more progress. Perhaps she’s going through something too, and I’ve not lost much ground.
Sorry about all this garbled talk. Thanks for reading.
It’s been a while in-between updates – last one almost 6 months ago. I went through a period of not visiting the site as much, but have checked in from time to time.
Updates from me:
Positives:
- Time with D3 is lovely. It can feel desperate at times – sort of too short a bit weird being a single ‘daddie’. But I love her very much and our time together. - I didn’t get the job I applied for in September. However, I resolved to keep looking and what looks like a good role came up at another place. I applied and got it! It seems like it will be more engaging and an opportunity learn more. This is really important to me and I’m pleased. I’m in “quarantine” for a month as a work for a regulator, but keeping busy with other projects - I dated an attractive girl over the Christmas period. It didn’t last too long, as she wasn’t right, and I wasn’t exactly ready for it either – felt guilty about how it was compatible with getting back with my WAW. It was a nice experience though, insofar as I felt attractive and could start to see alternative realities. - I am still enjoying fitness and my family in my hometown. I’d like to meet more people and am trying to get myself “out there”.
Challenges:
- Not long after the 2 year anniversary, my WAW sent me an email saying she wanted to have a divorce and would send me the forms. I replied that “it was not what I wanted, but I wouldn’t stand in her way.” She gave me the forms a few weeks ago, and intend to sign them this week. - This week she sent me an email saying that she was seeing someone else and was going away with him for Easter. The positive was that she offered me extra time with D3. But it did/does hurt. On the other hand, I hope that she can find some perspective or happiness from it too. As she’s not engaged basically since she left me, I’ve been quite unsure of her journey, and I took on a lot of guilt and blame in an attempt to fix things. It’s true that I was responsible for a lot of our problems (verbal abuse is just a killer), but there were also things she did too lack of boundary setting, inability to communicate her emotions. We both didn’t acknowledge we had problems, and I, at least, have been willing to do that – alas perhaps too late. I’m proud that I’ve tried very hard for 2 years to repair myself and the marriage. I can’t control WAW and I am/will be much stronger and better as a result. I’m grateful for the DR book and this site that promotes rising above things and positivity. - I still have mixed feelings about being here/working here/ what I walked away from in London and having time with D3. It made a lot of sense when getting back together was my focus. Now that seems further away than ever, this issue has come at me again. My current thought is to stay for D3, and hope for the best for the new job and time to give me an informed perspective.
In sum, my life is still full of challenges and I continue to worry/be afraid at times – particularly as it concerns D3 and/or the future. But I’m getting much better at dealing with it and being nicer to myself and others.
As increasing my acceptance in the latest phase, I plan to enrol in a ‘Widowed, separated and divorced’ support group when it starts again in May.
