Wife wants marriage with OM, is there any hope?

[mindsin]

Not everyone wants to talk all the time about THE problems. Sometimes they want to know that they can just BE around you and not feel dragged into an interrogation room.

Now do you get my question?

Yes I do.

[25yearsmlc]

Mindsin,

I'm a sucker for cheeseless tunnels, apparently. Because here I am, again, posting to you. And you have been going around in circles with some majorly helpful vets.

So, I have a question for you: Why are you here? What do you hope to get out of your participation in this forum? What questions do you have for the vets here, and/or what would you like feedback on?

These are not snarky questions. They are actual, serious questions.

(I asked this question of another highly defensive man recently... he never answered and has since disappeared for the moment).

If you put down your defenses, and read the posts from Mr. Bond and 25yrs, you might find peace within yourself, and quite possibly save your M.

I am here because I am desperate to save my marriage and I don't know which direction to turn. I've been getting all kinds of advice from friends, from the Internet, from my DB coach.

THEN CHOOOSE AMONG THEM^^^ AND FOLLOW A COURSE OF ACTION or you will keep spinning your wheels and going in different conflicting directions

You have a DB coach and that is who you should follow. We will try to support what the DB coach tells you

(but make sure you quote them exactly, AND that they have the same information we have.)
No more shopping around for new different (easier) answers. You cannot do a completely different approach for 4 days and then another one for a week and do justice to either.

Make a choice and follow through. Here is the "math" of it. Do the math.

Consistent change + sufficient time = change she can believe in.


My situation is such a complicated mess that I fear each move I make. I started reading the DR book and I'm looking to supplement the book and the DB coaching with good feedback from you folks.


It's NOT that complicated and when you say it is, you are building failure and an excuse to quit, right into the "plan".

1) FINISH the books. 2) no, seriously, FINISH the whole book (s).

3) Supplement with us and your coach; and

4) when something conflicts with your DB coach, ignore it and follow the coach's advice.

Clear?

I'm sorry if I come off as defensive, but that's sort of in my nature. I'll try to be more conscious of it going forward. I really do appreciate everyone's responses, whether or not I agree with them.

Being defensive maybe your nature but it's not a trait to cultivate. No offense okay but it's a flaw to work on. It prevents and hinders growth and insight and almost always hinders effective communication.

I'd work on that if I were you and I really really mean that.

[mindsin]

MrBond - I've been trying to change myself since I discovered this site. I've been working on my self-esteem. I've been going back to the gym. I'm spending more time with my friends and family, on the phone and in person.

I've been very thoughtful to my wife's time, and have been actively making her days easier by focusing on taking care of things around the house (and the kids) so she has more free time.

The hardest part is trying to detach from her emotionally, and I'm hanging onto every bit of hope that she will some day come back to me. I just need to stop forcing the issue and trying to control anyone else except myself.

I know these things. It's just really really difficult, especially for a person like me.

[MrBond]

I'm thinking you may never understand our posts to you. The fact that you respond so quickly and defensively without really understanding what we are posting to you shows that.

None of that stuff you mentioned above matters to her.

The BIGGEST thing you need to change is your attitude. Your self-centered thinking that the only thing that matters is what YOU think and not your W.

YOU want to sweep things under the rug (even though your W still hurts) because YOU don't want to deal with it. YOU think she deserves to go to hell (yes you do because it comes out in your posts), even though YOU had plenty of A's. YOU don't want her to find a man to be happy with because YOU think you're a great catch.

YOU don't want to change your attitude and try to see things from her POV because evidently you're incapable of it. So it depends if you are willing to try to do that. If not, then give your W a D and let her be happy.

[25yearsmlc]

I have three 180s that I've been focusing on.

1. Being thoughtful through my actions. E.G - Putting a little sticky note on her steering wheel, wishing her to have a great day. Writing her a poem (only one so far, which I haven't shown yet -- I only told her about it).

Are you counting the poem you talk about having written, as a thoughtful gesture? I mean, why not "tell" her you wrote a whole novel about how great she is but then, show it to no one....? I mean, give it to her already. What's the hold up? Oh, you want to show her you have moved on...

believe me you are so far behind on the "giver" charts, that a poem given to her won't throw her off track. What she was saying IMO< is that your kindness throws her off b/c for so long she has been neglected by you, that it confuses her when you are kind and thoughtful.

So now you wonder if you should STOP being kind and thoughtful? Do you really wonder this or do you just want us to give you permission to quit?


Making her dinner. Bringing her favorite snack to work. These are all borderline (or outright) pursuing, aren't they?

You said she works longer hours than you do. This^^ is just decent behavior. At least imo, that's all it is. For you to withhold that, to make yourself dinner but not her, is weird. And unkind.

2. Making sacrifices so that my WAW (who works longer hours than I do) has more time to relax, etc. Accommodating around her schedules, helping out with household chores, etc. This one seems like I'm pursuing also.


NO ^^^^ this is normal give and take. I know you're not used to it, but really it's just adult behavior with 2 working parents. No offense.

3. Being open and communicative. Talking about my feelings, and not hiding anything. This one I have to be careful with as I don't want to reveal too much.

Can you just thank her for kind actions and not "worry" that it reveals too much?

Can you just be courteous and polite to her and upbeat? Can you have a PMA around her, and not be miserable company?

^^^That is NOT letting her "cake eat", it's just being decent at a fundamental BASIC (as in "always should have been") level..

Don't confuse decent courtesy, behavior your wife has been owed forever, with being a doormat. They are NOT the same thing and in your case, if you are not sure which is which, I'd err on the side of being a

"doormat" b/c you tend to choose the selfish path too often. I don't mean to insult you with that but it is a pattern of yours here...you keep thinking doing what most people do for mere acquaintances, is above and beyond. And it's not.


Mind what did you think of the letter from the WAW to a LBH? Remember?


You never once commented on it, or anything I've posted to you, come to think of it...(hmmm that says something doesn't it?)

I showed you what another woman wrote about when HER H thought she should come home to him. In their case, her h HAD changed for the better....yet she still was interested in the OM.

Did you understand her POV? It really matters a lot that you learn to see her POV b/c I'm betting it's your wife's....

need me to post that again?

[25yearsmlc]

I'm thinking you may never understand our posts to you. The fact that you respond so quickly and defensively without really understanding what we are posting to you shows that.

None of that stuff you mentioned above matters to her.

The BIGGEST thing you need to change is your attitude. Your self-centered thinking that the only thing that matters is what YOU think and not your W.

YOU want to sweep things under the rug (even though your W still hurts) because YOU don't want to deal with it. YOU think she deserves to go to hell (yes you do because it comes out in your posts), even though YOU had plenty of A's. YOU don't want her to find a man to be happy with because YOU think you're a great catch.

YOU don't want to change your attitude and try to see things from her POV because evidently you're incapable of it. So it depends if you are willing to try to do that. If not, then give your W a D and let her be happy.

this^^^^ resonates with me for you.

And since I have a minute now, I will post the letter from the WAW AGAIN

and I hope you really take in what she is telling another man. B/C that other man is in your shoes; he's a h who wants his wife to leave the OM and return to h.

But her h has worked on himself and he's sincerely confused why his wife won't return "now that he is all better".

YOU have not earned that position in my opinion. But you might someday...

and you will HAVE to understand your wife's point of view then, and the sooner you do, the better.

here, again, is the letter I believe your wife could have written IF you had changed for the better. So for her right now, I doubt she's as motivated as the woman who actually did write it.

But if you are lucky AND work hard and dig deep and bravely and really OWN/REPAIR your flaws,

then maybe your wife WILL write a letter like this and maybe you will have hope.

(NOTE the term "win" is b/c there is a part of me that wonders why it took OM for you to make the changes...makes me wonder if this is about losing your wife to OM or just losing your wife."

If it's b/c there is OM, then don't bother her, Just let her go.

If it's b/c you want her in your life that is a different, better reason.

BTW< when you told your w you missed her, try to mention what you miss about her OTHER THAN SEX b/c

saying you miss her touch/sex, sounds way more like your needs, and not her attributes. Do you get my point?

Okay really reflect on this letter below and think about it, okay?

FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED, & WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT RETURNED TO HIM YET, & HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM….

"When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. ---Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties/confusion/pains that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants -- and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to "win".

Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to WIN, you'll put her through hell."
_________________________

[mindsin]

I do understand her POV. I still don't like the situation, but I have to stop trying to control it. I have to realize that it's uncontrollable.

The only thing I can control is me. I'm trying to make that stick in my head every hour of every day.

[claire7]

That's great, mindsin. That, and reminding myself to "put out into the world the energy I wish to get back" are two things that have kept me sane and moving forward during this experience.

You can do it!

[MrBond]

"I do understand her POV."

It's obvious in your posts you don't. Rather than showing some compassion and understanding for why she is looking for another man who has betrayed her like you have, you are more interested in condemning her and pretty much calling her a "whore".

Rather than looking at yourself, and using your knowledge to improve yourself for HER benefit and not yours.

[nit84]

Mr Bond, Just reading over mindsin Sitch here. Your above post confuses me a bit.

I have been improving myself IMHO, for myself, to help me down the road in a R whether it be with W or someone else.

I also am improving and really feeling that these changes will stick and that will be to HER benefit if she chooses to trust me.

We are not to improve ourselves for the WAS benefit though correct? If they are a bi-product that is great.

Am I confusing your comments?

Sorry to jump in mindsin