FWIW, and I imagine you guys don't trust my judgment very much right now, GAL and positive, light interactions seem to be what re-attract H the most thus far. Although I said I should go dark I am also feeling very concerned that his last memory of me before going dark AND seeing OW is a bad one.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Going dark for now is FOR you. We are concerned that you have not yet reined back your trigger-fast angry responses to H. Until you decide to do so, I'd suggest that you pull back a bit.
Going forward, your interactions will need to be light and breezy with ZERO talk about OW. Can you do this? That is the million-dollar question right there.
FWIW, and I imagine you guys don't trust my judgment very much right now, GAL and positive, light interactions seem to be what re-attract H the most thus far. Although I said I should go dark I am also feeling very concerned that his last memory of me before going dark AND seeing OW is a bad one.
Then re-commit to doing your 100% best "Plan A" (and Wonka and Train can help you do that, as already demonstrated) for some set period of time (I would advise no longer than 30-60 days), drop all "OW" confrontations and interrogations of your husband, and only give YOURSELF (not your H!!!) that internal deadline. And THEN go hard-core "Plan B"/pitch-dark after the 60 days if he's still as un-transparent and lost and non-committal as he is now.
I guess it's just different philosophies, mdu. I personally don't believe in trying to "re-attract" a wayward, while they are still in active contact with their affair partner. I believe you do present the best YOU that you can, by GALing and making the self-improvements that you know are needed, but I personally would never waver in my "End all contact with OW/OM and come back and work on the marriage with me, and I think you'll find me ready and willing to discuss and work on all issues, including my own" stance.
We are in general agreement in the approach methods.
Originally Posted By: Starsky
but I personally would never waver in my "End all contact with OW/OM and come back and work on the marriage with me, and I think you'll find me ready and willing to discuss and work on all issues, including my own" stance.
How? The OW will be, as MDU says, 20 to 25-feet from H in their small office.
The fact of the matter is that MDU needs to work with that reality in front of them. I am of the opinion that by bringing up OW and getting angry is not helping them at all.
For this to work, MDU must shift the focus from the OW away to her and the M. Make it about "team" Mr. and Mrs. MDU.
Of course, having the OW moving in the facility will stir up some memories and feelings for H which is why he is feeling so conflicted because he has made moves and strides in disengaging from the OW as evidenced by dates with MDU and whatnot. I can bet the Kent Farm that he's probably thinking to himself..."Oh chit! Now this??!! I just don't need OW around here."
This is a new wrinkle for H and MDU. Next week will be a real test for H as well in how he handles it.
"Going forward, your interactions will need to be light and breezy with ZERO talk about OW. Can you do this? That is the million-dollar question right there."
Yup, I agree, it's the million dollar question. I don't even trust myself and am honestly not sure. Perhaps, with tons and tons of support. But as Starsky pointed out, I wasn't able to do it last night and had tons of support. Maybe an A is something I just can't personally handle.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Then I'd recommend that you research around for an IC that specializes in infidelity and is solution-based therapy. You do need help working through your anger and finding ways to reach at the forgiveness stage.
Ok, thanks, I do have an appointment with another IC next Thursday.
Forgiveness seems so premature to me at this point. I surprised to hear that. I'm not disagreeing, just surprised.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
Starsky, to your point about the power equilibrium being off. I feel and have thought a lot about that too. I feel like H is trying to gain some power here (and obviously I'm letting him). I think the truth is he has felt very powerless in our M for many years. If I'm really honest with myself, I controlled quite a lot of things. If I think about it, my emotional outbursts have been a form of control. He's not tolerating it anymore, which in a way is good. But it's almost like he's swinging the pendulum too far the other way. I really think that's why he does not want to give in completely, he sees my requests as more demands/control over him and doesn't want that anymore. And obviously I'm letting him have the upper hand right now, I suppose out of my own fear and guilt.
M: 42 H: 43 M: 8 years S7 and D4 H has D19 and S25 from previous M Bomb: 3/6/14 OW discovered, EA & PA 1st separation, 10 days, decided to reconcile & moved back in. Fail 2nd separation: 5/1/14
We are in general agreement in the approach methods.
Originally Posted By: Starsky
but I personally would never waver in my "End all contact with OW/OM and come back and work on the marriage with me, and I think you'll find me ready and willing to discuss and work on all issues, including my own" stance.
How? The OW will be, as MDU says, 20 to 25-feet from H in their small office.
Then her husband should get a new job, or ask to be transferred to another location. But this needs to be HIS idea (for how he's intending to "clean up his mess,") not yet-another demand from mdu, on that we agree.
I have to be honest. I was on here last night, reading your posts. I have written responses no fewer than half-a-dozen times ... from the first synopsis of your conversation last night ... and have deleted all of them before hitting "submit."
Wonka and Starsky have covered each and every point I've made in those responses, and they've done it eloquently.
I have an opinion, of course. And my opinion is based on what worked for me. But did I question it? Yes. My H, too, seemed to respond best when I was light and flirty. No doubt about it. But it got the point, mdu, when his responses kind of became, well, irrelevant. Why? Because even though he was responding well, he wasn't committing. He was, in actuality, CAKE-EATING. Getting the best of both worlds: her AND me. And I was still left alone, taking care of the kids, wondering whether H was with OW. And to be honest? I've discovered since he's been home that he WAS with her, all while responding to my niceties.
Going dark was the best thing I ever did for me AND my M. I call it a "modified going dark," because with children, going dark isn't really feasible. When H was around to pick up/drop off the kids, I used those moments to give him glimpses of the new-and-improved Train. He saw me dressed, ready to go out. And he started getting really curious. (It's okay, after all, for THEM to move on. But for US, too? Ha. Not so fast!) I did not initiate conversation with him unless it had something to do with the kids.
I think Wonka, Starsky and I are in agreement on one thing: Right now, you need to go as dark as possible. This isn't to get a reaction out of your H. It's to give YOU a chance to recover.
mdu, you simply cannot continue to allow your anxieties and insecurities to trample the progress you've made.
I agree with Starsky: I don't think your H is ready; I read that ALL OVER the conversation you two had last night. I'm not trying to kick you while you're down, mdu, but we MUST identify a pattern so you can address it. You said yourself your H was not in the mood to talk last night. And you pushed through anyway with a million questions he didn't want to answer.
I'll throw him a bone: he answered them. And he answered them, suggesting that he was planning to minimize contact with OW as much as possible in the workplace. We also MUST consider the predicament he's in: he was drawing closer to you, enjoying this new mdu, when - surprise! - OW is in touch and says she's moving her work desk 20' from him. Think about how precarious of a situation that is; I wouldn't want to answer questions about it, either! He probably doesn't have the first clue how he'll handle it; this is all new for him, too. Remember: the WASs have feelings, too. They're scared and full of fear and confusion ... and A LOT of guilt.
But, I agree with Starsky, and this is the point I made in every response I've written and deleted: I don't think your H is ready. He hasn't yet figured out the wreck he's made of your M.
And, mdu, I don't think you're ready, either.
Until or unless you can really get control over your anxiety and outbursts when you're out of control, your M is just not going to work.
And this is the reason that rushing things and trying to get your H home right now is absolutely 100% futile.
I disagreed with the Plan B approach when it was pitched to me. It was just too hardcore for me. And I felt it was SUCH a huge move that it would have to be executed with perfect precision, and I knew that setting up a mediator to handle our children just was not okay with me.
But I also didn't subscribe to a "Plan A" approach after H trampled on my feelings and my heart so much while I made myself available to him.
There is absolutely no reason to "woo" your H back to you if he cannot commit - through words AND ACTIONS - to your M. To put yourself out there like that demonstrates little to no self-respect, in my opinion.
I know we've suggested the more firm stance before, and you've rejected it. I tried to stand beside you on that, because it seemed to work at the time. But here we are. Slightly new twist with the OW moving into town. We need to regroup. And backing off your H is the best first step to do that. I know OW coming in on Monday is going to weigh heavily on you this weekend. It's also weighing heavily on your H. TRY to GAL and stay busy. And away from your phone.
If you need to vent, we'll be here over the weekend. Use us instead of your H. That's why we are here.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
