Finally found DB...New here

[Eatsma]

Help me here!!!

WAH didn't walk away. He's home. He says he's never leaving me. He wants forever with me. He just has a "friend" who makes him feel good about himself. Except she doesn't. He feels guilty. She's just young and has big boobs (I don't.) and she flatters him. And - as someone here told me at some point: even though he's "home," he's already gone.

He said I'm smarter than she is. He said I'm in better shape than she is. (Months and months ago.)

She makes more money than I do. AND she doesn't make him feel guilty (whereas I do...).

So - what can I change?

Well...I can flatter H more and make him feel important. (Honestly - we're both very smart. We challenge each other intellectually.)

I didn't really show interest in his things like computer games. When we first met, that was impractical, since most people didn't have multiple computers. Now we do. Can I play? Sure. Okay. Doing that.

I also focused much more on our children and less on him. Fair enough. I can work on that, too.

OW loves sports. So fine - I like soccer and baseball. We've watched a lot of soccer together. I draw the line at hockey. I used to like hockey. She's a fanatic. I mean, seriously...I'm not supposed to become OW, and I'm not going to. I don't want to. I think she's pretty loathesome.

There are some battles he's going to have to fight all by himself. The other day he said, "You act like your poo doesn't stink!" He was mad at me because I didn't lie to change the date of a social obligation. This man was as honest as the summer day is long before this happened, so to hear him suggest that I lie and be mad that I didn't was astonishing to me. I'm not going to challenge my integrity. I honestly think that was him projecting his own disgust and frustration with himself on me at that moment.

Definitely have not told everyone I know about the affair. My therapist, and a few friends. No one in either of our families, with the exception of our daughter who only knows that Daddy cheated - she has no more information than that (and she discovered it because she found a book on infidelity in a dresser drawer).

So - working on changing myself. Being happy and pleasant (which was NOT me for the first seven months following the affair...). Detaching. No snooping. No asking any questions about either our R or his R with OW. Basically GAL without asking him for any assistance. Looking for a job (so I can make more money; more for me than for our marriage).

Waiting for him to sort out his own issues. I can't do that for him. He's got to figure that out all by himself. He thinks OW is an addiction (per a suggestion that my therapist made that I shared with him about two months ago...).

In the meantime, I flubbed my own 180 today. He desperately wants positive affirmation from me. He emailed me an article, and suggested that he and I should take a class. I agreed with him and he said, "Your husband is a wise, wise man." Instead of stroking his ego "Yes, you're so smart and strong and handsome!!!" I said, "So, let's look for a class, wise guy!" Funny - okay...but not breathlessly swooning, which I think he would prefer.

I've got to really dig deeeeeeep to get there. I feel pretty sure that's what OW gives him. He feels strong and powerful and smart in her presence. I make him feel guilty because he's getting his awesome feelings from someone other than me.

I seriously used to adore this man. Now.... Oh man, I would LOVE to be breathlessly swooning over him, but buyer flipping beware.

I feel like life is a series of if/then statements right now. If you want to regain my trust, then lose the OW. If you want me to breathlessly swoon over you again, then earn my trust again.

If I want to save my marriage, then I have to DB...and ignore the OW for now. And wait it out. And work on myself.

It's hard work.

[KGirl]

MLP-

I'm going to be frank. I'm glad that you're following DR but I'm concerned you're picking and choosing certain phrases and ignoring the others in giving him space to have his A/ignore the OW but then basically doing everything he wants despite him not ending it. You quote this part of DR:

"He needs time to think, feel, and experiment, even if part of his experimentation involves another woman. If you start making demands right away, you will probably lose him. There may not be much that you can do right now to make things better, but there are a ton of things that you can do to make things worse like interrogation and issuing demands." p. 259

and you ask this: How do you stop cake eating if you're not acknowledging affair?

Yes, give him space. But I don't think setting some boundaries about how you want to be involved with him is making demands or interrogating him. I've seen many examples on here from others (Starsky and Wonka) of how to do this. I've pulled some example phrases from a letter on Devaste's thread right now that illustrate setting these boundaries when there's an OP:
"I am not willing live in an open marriage with a third party....It is incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and our family. We will co-parent our children, and I will of course be civil and courteous, but this isn't how 'friends' treat each othe....Going forward starting now, as long as you are involved in an affair with the OM, our communication only be focused on the logistics of the children's schedules, their issues, and exchanges."

I think that last sentence is the biggest disconnect between what I've seen recommended on here and how your situation is going. Like you mentioned earlier, situations are unique.. but what you've been doing hasn't seem to have gotten you any close to your goal. And it seems pretty clear that you're not comfortable with how things are and OW potentially still being in the picture. You don't have to discuss the affair. You're not demanding he end it. You're simply stating what is OK for you. If you don't want to do that explicitly through words, do it through your actions, and if he asks why you are "cold" or not engaging him, you can respond with how you aren't interested in maintaining a friendship or a relationship while there's someone else in the picture. From how I am reading this, you're giving him all kinds of attention and doing everything he wants - playing video games with him, talking about going on a trip with him, flattering him and stroking his ego... but he also has OW. Where is the incentive for him to end that? I don't see any. He gets the best of everything - all of your attention AND whatever is going on with OW.

I understand you might not be ready to lay it out like that. But I encourage you to think about that.

Another thing - one of my H's complaints was I didn't compliment him enough. Someone gave me wise advice early on that while that's something I could 180, I also need to remember that I shouldn't be the source of H's happiness about himself. He needs to just genuinely be happy for himself and his accomplishments, and any other acknowledgement or appreciation from others is the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. I worry that you may be taking on the main burden of lifting your H "up" rather than him being proud of himself. Something to consider.

Have you read the part in DR about when they won't end the affair? That seems appropriate for this situation. Basically she says do the last resort technique, and I think there are aspects of this you are incorporating, but you seem a little too concerned about meeting his requests and needs, going out of your way to do things with him, etc. If things still aren't working , then there's the "after the last resort technique." Again, maybe you're not here yet because it's your last shot. I guess you'll have to decide that. But it involves backing off completely - only logistical things necessary to maintain a household and parent your kids. "Continue this emotional cutoff until your spouse gets the point that there will be no relationship of any sort unless the OP is completely out of the picture." I think the answer to "how do you stop cake eating if you're not acknowledging/discussing the affair" is here, but you have to be ready and willing to implement it without waffling or caving in.

[Old Dog]

So - what can I change?

So - working on changing myself. Being happy and pleasant (which was NOT me for the first seven months following the affair...). Detaching. No snooping. No asking any questions about either our R or his R with OW. Basically GAL without asking him for any assistance. Looking for a job (so I can make more money; more for me than for our marriage).

Waiting for him to sort out his own issues. I can't do that for him. He's got to figure that out all by himself.

If I want to save my marriage, then I have to DB... and ignore the OW for now. And wait it out. And work on myself.

It's hard work.

That's it MLP. You got it. It's hard, but you can do it.

I'm asssuming cake eating is 'having your cake and eating it' i.e. having two portions. I haven't actually seen it explained.

So withdraw your portion and decorate it how you desire. The other portion may have scrumptiously sweet filling, but you can't live on that alone: there's the rest of the cake to consider which may be dry as a bone - and your teeth will fall out.

[KGirl]

Exactly - it means they are having their cake and eating it too (which is a weird phrase, right? If you have cake why not eat it? But what it's actually referring to is you either have a piece of cake in front of you, or you've eaten it. You can't eat it and also have it still be in front of you after you've eaten it, it's gone) You can't have two incompatible things.

[Eatsma]

KGirl -

Thank you for your post!

I guess the biggest problem that I have right now is that I don't know where OW fits into the picture. They are co-workers who speak every day but she lives 1000 miles away. Their time together is mostly virtual and often supervised by other co-workers. For a time they also spent TONS of time together online in the evenings and on weekends, and that has ceased. The last communication that I had with him directly about OW he told me that she was "infuriated" with him. This was about six weeks ago.

I see what you mean about giving him so many of the things that he wants, but not making any requests of my own. At some point I'm going to have to pull up my big girl panties and address the elephant in the room...What's the deal?

I have not had the stomach to do the LRT or the LLRT. I see that it has worked with people like devastate and wonka. I guess I'm just trying to find the right time....And, as we know, we have lots of time (but should use it wisely). What's the right time with the kids and school? What's the right time with the job (since the company is up for sale) or with my job (since I'm applying for a new one)? So many what ifs and whens...The sun rises, the sun sets, and I stand here frozen, watching the tides shift.

I may be getting closer to the LRT...or my own ILYBINILWY speech. Sometimes I wonder.

[dawgy]

MLP , your sitch and mine are practically identical . I m not going to discount anyone elses opinion on your sitch here , but I do see where you are coming from practicing 180 s . Stroking his ego perhaps is an example . You said he didnt get that from you so your giving it to him . I totally get it . That is a 180 from what you used to do . Im doing the same to my wife . Theres a few things that are hard to understand with the DB ing technique for sure but in the end I must agree with Sandi " you must do what works to save your Marriage "

The same technique wont nessecarily work for every sitch . I believe there must be variations of DBing employed to fit all situations .It seems that you are remaining close to your husband which is excellent in my opinion. He will only be able to see how kind and supportive youve been through this whole ordeal .However i have to agree with KGirl to the fact that he is cake eating , and you know it and how long you allow this to go on is up to your tolerance . I know because im in the same situation .Sooner or later we will have to draw a line in the sand so to speak and say enough is enough and go last resort . So it seems . I know exactly how you feel , Im basically allowing cake eating hoping that affair will burn out and her behavior will return to normal and the fog will lift .

Im not ready for LTR . And I dont think anybody should implement it if they are not completely ready for the out come . If it doesnt go the way you want you may cave in and you dont want that . If your like me your feelings toward him have slowly changed as time has progressed and i think that thats how you will know when to say enough is enough . When you realize you cant wait any longer for him to stop all contact with OW . Then in my opinion it would be time for LTR

[Eatsma]

Just because it seemed appropriate, the color I picked for my pedicure today is called chastity.

And, as it goes on the toes, I see it is the color of pepto bismol.

Still appropriate--lol.

(Esp. Since H has had stomach issues for the past two days. He ALWAYS gets sick before traveling to OW city. Coincidence? I have a hard time believing it now.)

[Heart14]

Great post, KGirl! That really resonated with me.

[Eatsma]

Kgirl, I promise I will read again and again.

I need time to process everything. We are promised time in all of this, right?

H seems very, very much more himself this weekend. It's odd, and I don't know what to make of it. At one point he snapped at me but almost immediately apologized (which is actually new!). Otherwise, sought out family throughout the weekend, pleasant at meals, etc.

When alone, was seeming to research things like our retirement plans and would have suggestions. He also was talking about what the plan will be for new cars when we get them (I often get his old car, and I've told him no way with this one since he picks her up from the airport and they've snogged in it.)

He told me he liked a song by REM and I reminded him they were one of my favorites. He's been listening to them all day.

Today I went for a 15 mile run by myself. That gave me a lot of time to think. And as I was thinking, a guy ride by me on his bike and said, "just keep going! Just keep going!!" It felt like a message. Since my mantra is "let go, let God," I looked up and said, "okay. I got it."

Busy weekend. The d has a visitor from china for a few days who is a sweetie. Lots of training for the marathon going on.

Anyway--things weird and shifting. Weird

[Eatsma]

Having had KGirl's post knocking around in my brain for awhile (thank you, again!), here are some thoughts:

1) Paying more attention to H did seem to make things better at home. We are laughing together again, which is nice. He also does not seem to be contacting OW at all, at least from home. That said - I have given him a much wider berth with distancing, so it's hard to say. What I do "know" is that he is not contacting her in my presence, which was one of the boundaries.

2) Our last conversation about OW is basically over a month ago now. One of the DR techniques also says to find out what it is that OW provides that I don't - so that I can. I'm pretty sure that was attention! So - I'm walking a very interesting tightrope right now of not pursuing (and checking in on him throughout the day), but answering him cheerfully and not curtly when he does reach out to me.

Things DO seem better...or at least different. Is it working? I have no idea. My end goal is that OW will no longer be in the picture. I suspect that we're not there yet, but have no proof.

In the meantime, I have realized that something I really, really need to work on is conflict avoidance. I don't mind conflict with students (at work) or with my kids, or EVEN with my friends...But my parents and my H, you betcha. So, that's a big thing that I'm going to have to work on with myself. Growth - here I come.

And I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but here is an example:
In the past, H would send me pictures of women that he thought were sexy. Victoria's Secret ads - whatever. He did for the first time in ages this weekend, and I didn't respond. My reaction was to simply not react. So, he brought it up as we went to bed last night, but it was in a round-about way and I didn't make the connection that he was talking about the email that I had ignored, so he sent it again this morning....And rather than encouraging some flirty sexy talk (as it used to), I told him, honestly, "That email made me feel inadequate."

He answered, "I don't want to make you feel inadequate. That's not fun. We used to talk like this and it was fun. I'm trying to be fun."

This, my friends, is pandora's box.

On the one hand - it is a perfect opportunity for me to start chipping away at the many, many things that I've got on my mind right now (and setting some boundaries!). On the other hand, he's leaving for her city tomorrow....this is his first trip there since May. I have never sent him to her city without some sort of acknowledgement that what he was doing was hurting me. To NOT discuss it would be consistent with what I started about 6 weeks ago.

If he weren't leaving tomorrow, I think I would have been more inclined to pursue this conversation, but something about the timing feels very wrong to me.

Banging my head against a wall.