The Five Balls

[ForeverYoung]

Five Balls
From the book "Suzanne's Diary to Nicholas" by James Patterson

Imagine life as a game in which you are juggling some five balls in the air. You name them - Work - Family - Health - Friends - Spirit, and you're keeping all of these in the air.

You will soon understand that work is a rubber ball. If you drop it, it will bounce back. But the other four balls -- family, health, friends and spirit are made of glass. If you drop one of these, they will be irrevocably scuffed, marked, nicked, damaged or even shattered.

They will never be the same. You must understand that and strive for balance in your life. How?

1. Don't undermine your worth by comparing yourself with others. It is because we are different that each of us is special.

2. Don't set your goals by what other people deem important. Only you know what is best for you.

3. Don't take for granted the things closest to your heart. Cling to them as you would your life, for without them, life is meaningless.

4. Don't let your life slip through your fingers by living in the past or for the future. By living your life one day at a time, you live ALL the days of your life.

5. Don't give up when you still have something to give. Nothing is really over until the moment you stop trying.

6. Don't be afraid to admit that you are less than perfect. It is this fragile thread that binds us together.

7. Don't be afraid to encounter risks. It is by taking chances that we learn how to be brave.

8. Don't shut love out of your life by saying it's impossible to find. The quickest way to receive love is to give; the fastest way to lose love is to hold it too tightly; and the best way to keep love is to give it wings.

9. Don't run through life so fast that you forget not only where you've been, but also where you are going.

10. Don't forget that a person's greatest emotional need is to feel appreciated.

11. Don't be afraid to learn. Knowledge is weightless, a treasure you can always carry easily.

12. Don't use time or words carelessly. Neither can be retrieved.

[ForeverYoung]

Never mind that the above post is from a fictional romance novel, and that the central character (Matt, ) is a cheater... the above list still sounds like words to live by to me.

Did you ask W what she meant by one of the bouncing balls in the air? What other balls was she thinking about? Are there some that you can offer to support in some way?

Communicate, bud!

Thanks for pressing me to go back and ask about this, Wonka. Because I did, I found a wonderful opening for my new thread, which came from a book my wife read.

Even though my wife doesn't desire me "in that way" at the moment, I am fortunate because we get along well, and can both say or ask practically anything we want without any negative repercussions. Plus, I now know I am a glass ball that, if dropped, "will be irrevocably scuffed, marked, nicked, damaged or even shattered."

My wife is now seriously planning quitting her job, which has over stressed her for many years. This may be just what she needs to help her find the meaning in life she is searching for.

In one of our recent discussions about her job, she even used the exact words "meaning" and "purpose"... things I've learned long ago are what persons in crisis are really searching for! Often, they may not understand this, especially at first, and often they waste time searching in all the wrong places. But some really do figure it out, and sometimes even decide their marriage and spouse wasn't the problem after all.

My gut continues to tell me things are improving between my wife and I, so I will continue to stand and give her my best.

Thanks for following, and Bust On, you all!

Previous thread: Mature Love.

[ForeverYoung]

You are such an inspiration to me. I was starting to doubt that I could ever experience a Mature Love with somebody. I was losing my hope that H will ever come out of his crisis or if I meet somebody new to share my life with.

I do have lots of hope for you.

Thank you so much, Bright. Your words really mean a lot to me. If I inspire anyone I am honored. I'm just doing my best over here like everyone else.

[job]

FY,
I like the title of your thread and I hope posters will read it and print off the 12 points. They are very good and actually fall within the DB principles that we talk about all of the time.

I'm glad your wife is starting to realize that her job is not worth the stress and hopefully will find something more meaningful for her in the near future.

Keep up the good work!

[daring]

Yay- you do have a new thread!

I love that list- funny that the background of the book is what you mentioned....

"5. Don't give up when you still have something to give. Nothing is really over until the moment you stop trying."

^^^^^ speaks to me right now. I have much to give and H doesn't need to be in the same place for me to keep trying. He'll catch up eventually!!

I really hope for you that your W changing her job will help. I certainly know that has been a huge thorn for H and I'm pretty sure has prolonged some parts of his MLC.

And I echo Bright's words- you are an inspiration!! I'm a glass half full kinda person, but you my friend, are a glass 99% full kinda person.
Following your story reminds us all to really dig deep and pay attention to the positives. I am so rooting for you and W!!

[BrightFuture]

9. Don't run through life so fast that you forget not only where you've been, but also where you are going.

This really struck a chord with me. This is what I was doing pre BD. I run so fast through life, always trying to achieve something for the future, but didn’t notice the present. I have some memory gaps from that time because I was running so fast. I actually realized I was doing it sometime before BD and was trying to change it. BD just sped up the process of transitioning to living in present.

It seems like you W is doing some serious work within herself. Keep up the hope and patience going.

[Ggrass]

That's a nice thought fy!

I think I have forgotten what it's like to be a single human, while with h. Today as I walked into work for my shift I got wolf whistled at by a regular customer, something I never thought a slightly tubby 44yo could have happen. I thought those sorts of things were in the past.

And it felt great, he's married but same age or younger and boy I'm still floating 5 hours later.

[Cadet]

Oh, and seeing Cadet's latest links reminds me I need to go back and check some of those out. Thanks, Cadet!

Your welcome, you know where to find me if you need more links!

[LoisB]

1. Don't undermine your worth by comparing yourself with others. It is because we are different that each of us is special.

2. Don't set your goals by what other people deem important. Only you know what is best for you.

3. Don't take for granted the things closest to your heart. Cling to them as you would your life, for without them, life is meaningless.

4. Don't let your life slip through your fingers by living in the past or for the future. By living your life one day at a time, you live ALL the days of your life.

FY,

I LOVE the first four. Hear! Hear!!

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you ladies and gent for dropping by and leaving your thoughts!

I feel I've reached a new level of peace with my sitch. Accepting it for what it is, and that it will take more time for the physical intimacy to return. I'm spending more time focusing on all the good things in my life and marriage, instead of on the "missing" parts.

Hyper focus on the M, and on "fixing" the M, can be very draining. I think sometimes, especially early on, we analyze too much, read too much, surround ourselves with too much destruction. We TRY too hard, and that never works. Know when to take a break and just enjoy your life and be yourself. You'll never get today back, so think hard on how you'd like to spend it.

Live in the moment, focus on positive things, and surround yourself with positive people. Do something nice for someone, make the world a tiny bit better.

-----------------

W says she is committed to at least finish her major annual project, (about 2 months to go) before leaving her job. My guess is she will stay longer.

One thing I've noticed is that on the days she returns from work frazzled and grumpy, she soon mellows out once in our home and with me. It seems our home and I truly are a calming sanctuary.

Keep finding ways to connect with her emotionally FY. Not just spend time together doing an activity, but not really connecting. Think. Think of things that may draw you two closer.

Or as someone very wise has told me, numerous times, show her the possibilities of what could be...

Thanks, TVS. I've recently been thinking more about this because it does seem W is beginning to be more open to connecting.

I'm being serious when I say MLC can be a very exciting and positive time in our lives.

[Ss06]

This list is hugely profound. I'm printing it and putting it in my purse. Thank you for posting and spreading your wisdom, positivity and hope.

[ForeverYoung]

It’s so easy to get bogged down in the details of our personal life, stuck focusing on our particular woes of the moment. It’s often helpful when we can get out in nature and allow our mind to focus on the bigger picture.

There is no picture bigger than the universe itself. Billions of galaxies, trillions of planets. Billions of light years wide. Does it go on forever? What is beyond it? How many worlds with life are out there? Unimaginable to us humans really, but extremely fascinating to ponder.

Yet the universe is not something “out there” or outside of us. We are part of it!

I took a day off of work this week and took my 14 year old nephew to the planetarium. We had a wonderful day together as we connected and learned more about the immensity of our universe. It also caused me to remind myself how insignificant we, and our problems, truly are in the Big Picture. We’re not even a speck in time and space! Yet we often allow ourselves to fret over some of the less than ideal details of our life, even the ones we have little or no control over. In the worst cases, we allow ourselves to get stuck, and we waste our time there. Time we could be putting to much better use.

This is why I feel it is so important for us to find our way to let go of our hurt and pain. Forgive. Search for and find our meaning and purpose. Hang out with family and friends who love us. Do things we love. Find our passion, create, give. Help others find their peace and meaning. Make our little part of the universe a better place.

This is a gradual and very personal process, and it takes time. Be patient with yourself but keep moving forward. Keep your focus on your goals, and don’t allow yourself to be distracted by any “noise” that attempts to derail you.

There is a you tube video titled “The Overview Effect” that explains how those who have seen the earth from space often have a profound change of perspective regarding mans place in the universe... and what is and isn’t important. They have gained a greater understanding of the Big Picture, and we can too. Check it out.

We are given a short time here in our universe, let’s all vow to make the most of it!

[uRworthy]

I was just thinking of you and wondering how you were.

What a lovely, beautiful post, FY, and so true.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for stopping by and offering your kind words, UR. It really means a lot to me. I hope all is going well in your world.

As mentioned previously, W is buried in her crazy busy period at work... same as every year at this time. But unlike the previous years, this year she seems much more at peace with it. More calm, less stressed. It's a good thing.

Today W and I went to "Veggie Fest" and met up with my two sisters. We walked the fair grounds together, enjoyed some good food, and watched a presentation by the extremely inspirational Karyn Calabrese. We also met up with my best buddy and his lady friend and her daughter. Good times.

On the ride home I asked W to scratch my head, (something she used to do often while I was driving) and she did. It was nice.

I know for some it's all about detaching and going dark, and in some situations that really is the best course of action. For us, building on the connection works best. It's kept W here all this time and the comfort between us continues to grow.

Bust On, you all!

[ForeverYoung]

For us, building on the connection works best.

Allow me to clarify this. There has been A LOT of giving W space during the past 2 and a half years. I like to think of it as a dance... that I allow her to lead.

If she is receptive, or reaches out, I am there. If she pulls back, or is not receptive, I go do my own thing. But the goal has always been to build the connection whenever possible.

[ForeverYoung]

All 5 balls are going nice and steady over here in ForeverTown. No big changes.

I've taken on a renewed interest in reducing our spending, saving even more, and adjusting our investments in order to hasten the time to our retirement. Check out my hero, Mr Money Mustache, to learn how!

I told W we can live on my salary alone... now, if we wanted to. Even though W expressed the desire to finally quit her job once she finishes her big yearly project, (only a few weeks away) she has taken no steps or made any plans. I suspected this would be the case, and that's ok. Maybe she will stay and find a new acceptance and peace with it all.

She still compares herself to others at times, and feels shorted. (point #1 to avoid in her book, listed in the opening post of this thread!) Like her Bestie GF who is at some fancy hotel with her latest BF. "I can't even be a trophy wife like BFF"

What my brain says: Really? You mean BFF who is your age, lives by herself, was married for only one year in her life, has ended several relationships because the guys are never good enough, and is still dating? YOU"RE envious of THAT?

My actual words: You are a trophy wife.

W: I work harder than you, you have it easy. YOU'RE a trophy wife! (Bet none of the H's here have heard THAT one!)

I still catch her singing "I hate everything" (or everyone) on occasion, to the tune of Here Comes Santa Claus. (try it, it's fun!) This is nothing new, but she actually sounds a little happier while doing it as of late, if that makes any sense.

She sings happy songs too! And laughs.

We continue to do things together, meet with family, etc.

Still no signs of OM.

W continues to "chill out and warm up" once she's home for a bit after a stressful day at work... and who could blame her? She has a wonderful partner who has a nice dinner and coffee ready when she gets home.

Tell me what's new with you.

[Wonka]

FY,

My other crush! Good to hear from you!

W: I work harder than you, you have it easy. YOU'RE a trophy wife! (Bet none of the H's here have heard THAT one!)

Boy...that one is an odd thing to come out of her mouth. Why does she think you have it easy? Because you're home every evening cooking dinner??!

I'm curious to know if W is initiating touches with you?

What's new with me is that I am starting a new job next week that will be 2x my previous salary. Sweet!

[ForeverYoung]

FY,

My other crush! Good to hear from you!

W: I work harder than you, you have it easy. YOU'RE a trophy wife! (Bet none of the H's here have heard THAT one!)

Boy...that one is an odd thing to come out of her mouth. Why does she think you have it easy? Because you're home every evening cooking dinner??!

Because I like my job and it's not as stressful as hers. She puts in a lot of OT during the summer. Plus, as we all should be doing, I actually ENJOY every day!

I'm curious to know if W is initiating touches with you?

No, but I'm gonna start again. I'll keep you updated.

What's new with me is that I am starting a new job next week that will be 2x my previous salary. Sweet!

Sweet indeed, and good for you! Similar work or something new?

2x your salary means you can keep living as you are now, and invest the rest. Become financially independent in X years and retire early if you choose!

[AJM]

Funny thing about stress. It's self-induced B) Your job *could* be stressful. If you let it. Or it could be what it is - a way to earn a living. It's what you make it. But you know that already. She hasn't figured that out yet is all.

A trophy wife? Do you wear a pink tu-tu like Eric?

I like the tag line, FY. "She's still worth it."

Peace,
AJ

[ForeverYoung]

Funny thing about stress. It's self-induced B) Your job *could* be stressful. If you let it. Or it could be what it is - a way to earn a living. It's what you make it. But you know that already. She hasn't figured that out yet is all.

So true, AJ. W has been at her job for 25 years. Even prior to our crisis she was sometimes overstressed with it, and talked about quitting. I actually sense more acceptance as of late.

Today, W admitted to being depressed because she's been gaining weight. Yet she's been keeping up with her running three days a week, and does some weight training. Yay! I validate her concerns, and support her on her workouts. (and I still think she's HOT)

A trophy wife? Do you wear a pink tu-tu like Eric?

Does he or doesn't he? Only his hairdresser knows for sure!

I like the tag line, FY. "She's still worth it."

Thank you. If I didn't think it true, I wouldn't have been able to stand as long as I have. I do consider both of us fortunate to have each other. *kissy smilie*

[ForeverYoung]

Tonight I went to watch the UFC fights with 2 buddies. Tomorrow I go to the drag races, on my own. Monday, Labor day, my W and I go on a bike ride with my family. I like riding behind W.

Last year I ran a Tae Kwon Do class at my work place. It was by far the most fulfilling GAL activity I engaged in. It helped me feel better about myself and my life, and my students loved it. It looks like I may hopefully have the opportunity to do it again soon...

[ForeverYoung]

Hi everybody!

I know this may come as a great surprise to some of you, but I wasn't always as wise as I am today. I also refused to always be serious.

Some of my Words of Wisdom from my threads of the past:

At one point I even convinced myself that a mail order bride was the way to go! I kinda put that one on the backburner for now...

Even if I do die in celibacy, at least I won’t have to be in poverty too!

3 weeks 'till the anniversary of BD. Not sure of the DB protocol. Do I get her a card?

FY, exactly where in the Hallmark section should we be looking for the BD card?

They have a section in back called “Here’s what’s left of my heart… it’s all yours”. Any card from this section comes with a free box of Kleenex and a list of local counselors… it’s actually pretty nice!

One night W was working out in our home gym, and when I came down to join her she mumbled something and left. I hadn't yet worked up a sweat, so I know that wasn't the problem! It seems I'm cooties right now.

Thanks for the kind words. It is very nice to know I have helped others, like others here have, and continue to help me. That's what makes DB the best board for MLC standers like us, in my opinion. We're all in the same sinking ship with a puny little patience shovel for a paddle!

In other news, it's now official. I'm in limerence... with me! Yep, and we all know these things only last (on average) for about 2 years, so hopefully W signs back up to the M before then!

More to come...

[daring]

FY thanks for the laughs!! I love those posts. And I'm sure you had great advice back then. Except you referred to a puny shovel, not the DB approved Kevlar gloves to hold the extra large patience shovel. Glad you were able to trade up for the good one!

[ForeverYoung]

I have always found humor essential to helping us through tough times. Taking a lighthearted look at ourselves and our sitch can make a big difference in how we feel, how we react to others, and I believe even outcomes.

Shortly after BD my wife told me she would like to date other men, and find true passion for once in her life. Hmmm, ok.

Since I know she likes gifts, and it's been a while since I got her anything, I thought maybe I would get her the old Milton Bradley board game, Mystery Date!

I still remember the song from the commercial for the game: Mystery date, are you ready for your mystery date? Open the door. Will he be a dream, or a dud?

Ok, I admit I would totally rig the door to only open on a dud!

I love my W, but I’m also in love with myself...

Torn between two lovers, feelin' like a fool...

That reminds me of that popular Dean Martin song...

Everybody's Done with Somebody Sometime...

W and I are going to a party with a bunch of her coworkers this weekend. I plan to get really drunk and tell everyone about our sitch!

The anniversary trip sounds positive... Never know ... Maybe her stomach will get itchy, and she'll need you to rub lotion on it while she's in her undies... Just sayin

Note to self: remember to pack the itching powder.

[ForeverYoung]

Bomb drop back in March 2012 rocked my world. I fell into minor depression for several months. How could I not? She was my life partner since I was 18 years old. I never experienced a single day of adult life without her by my side as my committed partner. It was nearly impossible for me to even imagine it.

Like most everyone here, I frantically started to fix any and every thing about me that I thought could have caused her to give up on me. I signed up with a (non DB) marriage coach who guided me weekly. I read many books on fixing relationships. I studied about MLC.

I quickly determined what things about me needed improvement, and did 180’s on them. There were plenty of little things, but nothing major. I realized I had not been a complete failure as a spouse, did not need a major makeover, and was relatively happy with who I was. I was lovable and loved myself. Maybe you feel the same way.

No matter what she was saying now, my W really did love me all those years, and still does deep down. How could she not?

I realized that her perception of the M had changed, and that it could change again but would take time. I learned I could not fix her, but also realized I had some power in how things would play out. My actions and words going forward were going to affect this. She would be watching and taking notice, and she was still here.

It took a while, but I figured out that I’d be more than ok on my own if it came to that. I also knew that I could play the bailout card at any time. Having this card in my back pocket actually helped me to stand many times when I felt like giving up. (which seemed to be every few weeks! lol)

Deep down I knew she and our marriage were still worth it. That if we made it through this, we’d have a most amazing relationship. An even more Mature Love that could not have been possible without weathering the most persistent of storms.

I hope that I can continue to be patient as W works through her stuff, because I want to be able to say I gave this my all. I also think she is worth nothing less.

[CaliGuy]

If I was good with expressing the inner me like you ... I could not have written it better, It is very much how I feel.

Like you I keep my sense of humor, have had her in my life since 18 and haven't known anyone else, nor cared to. I have said it to people who don't understand ... I love once, sure it may not work out, one day I may have to send her out to sea, I know deep to the core of me I will never love another the way I loved her. How could I .... 24 years? (Adds fingers in head) ... yeah

I pray too that when this hurricane finally passes we can clean the foundation and build the M of our dreams, understanding how little things can make it go so wrong and so fast.

You have handled this and yourself gracefully FY ... hang in there.

[Wonka]

FY,

I like your thought process. You're doing tremendous with patience. That is real, unconditional love for your W. You're a good man!

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you so much for the kind words and for stopping by, CG & Wonka.

"I will never love another the way I loved her."

I feel the same way CG, that's why I'm still in this thing.
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Friday night us kids had an Anniversary party for my parents. 55 years married! W made a dish, and got there before me because I had to work late. We do all family events together. There was plenty of food, hugging, and joking around. A good time was had by all.

Saturday I spent much of the day working at a charity event in my hometown. I enjoyed meeting and talking with many appreciative people. After telling me how talented and handsome I was, one woman asked me if I was married. I answered, "Yes I am, but we're still newlyweds... we've only been married 31 years!" She laughed and replied that the good ones are always taken!

Wonka, don't tell mach or cat, but I tried touching W a few times. No comment from her, but her body language said still not interested. (D'oh!)

I initiated a discussion of the future, and mentioned again how I am planning for earlier financial independence and retirement. As part of a Reality Dart, I told W I likely would no longer desire to buy her out of our (paid for) home if we split up, because it wouldn't fit into my plan. She commented about the present value of the home and the merits of keeping it, but said nothing regarding the possibility of "splitting up".

Life is great. I truly feel I have everything I need or desire. W and I get along well, share details of our days, do things for each other. The only thing missing is the physical intimacy. We seem a perfect match in all areas but this one.

I see firsthand and clearly how someone can end up staying in a SSM.

How can I tell if W will ever come around physically?

As of now, she seems quite content with NO sexual partners. Based on certain comments and songs she sings, I would say she is still in crisis/depression to some degree. I don't believe one can fully love others, until they can love themselves.

Bust On, my friends.

[Lifes Twists]

" I don't believe one can fully love others, until they can love themselves."

FY,

I believe this is the biggest issue with those who are dealing with depression. I believe from my experience with my spouse that those who have some level of depression will collect all the negative thing that happen along the way and file them for later use. This collection of negatives keeps building until it gets to a breaking point. Some trigger will eventually happen that will cause all these collected negatives to come exploding out. Who knows what it will be, but it will happen.

Those who collect negatives have not learned how to let go of things. They have not learned to forgive. Until they learn this, if ever, they will never love themselves.

I wish you luck on your quest. I think all of us are in this depression boat together. The question is will we stay in the boat, slip over the side and swim to shore, or slip over the side and drown, or be rescued. That is the question we each need to answer.

[Wonka]

FY,

55 years married! Wow. That is a great milestone. Hope you guys hit the mark as well and have a happy anniversary.

You commented about still experiencing "no intimacy"...I can understand your W's POV. The sexual desire comes back long after the reintegration process after coming out of the MLC fog. It seems to me that your W is not yet quite there.

On the other hand, you don't want to stand for too long and have the M slip into SSM territory. That is something for you to monitor and decide when the time comes around.

It is a tough balancing act for sure.

[ForeverYoung]

I think all of us are in this depression boat together. The question is will we stay in the boat, slip over the side and swim to shore, or slip over the side and drown, or be rescued. That is the question we each need to answer.

Our choice, right, LT? I truly believe if we properly apply the DB plan of Detach, GAL, PMA, and most importantly... find our own Meaning and Purpose in life, then we'll be good in ANY situation.

We are not "waiting" for any specific relationship with our spouse. (or anyone else for that matter)

It takes time to get there, but I believe we need to feel 100% content and confident on our own. (even while our marriages are in limbo) Let's all work on that.

[Matt165]

Hi LT,
Much truth in what you posted about those suffering from depression. Looking back over the 26 years we have been together, my W has done exactly what you talked about...collected all the negatives. She did it with everyone she has ever known especially those that cared about her or she cared about. Her mother, her friends, me. I watched her end every friendship she ever had, even her best friend since childhood because of some small slight (at least that was what it seemed to me at the time but it actually was just the "tipping point"). Even her mother who has done so much for her since her father left them when she was only 10 and sacrificed so much for her and her brother. The only persons who she hasn't done this with are her father and his wife (OW that he left her mother for), pretty much the only people who really have caused enough real harm to her over her lifetime to actually warrant her keeping them out of her life.

Even my parents who loved her like a D for years. She went on a trip with them (without me) and felt slighted by my mother and after that, never wanted to see them again. She would tell me later that she thought that they treated my older brother and his wife better than they did me and her back before we moved 20 years ago and that, along with the trip, caused her to no longer "trust" them. That's right, 20 years before. It didn't matter how my parents helped us over the years or treated her like a D. No, all she remembered were the negatives. I'm even beginning to see her doing just this with our D19 since W left and D19 refused to live with her. I suppose it was only a matter of time before I was going to be on her list as well.

The thing I just don't understand is why not her father? He did such awful things and actually really shouldn't be trusted by her. Or his OW wife who pretended to be her and her mothers "friend" all while sneaking around and having sex with her father. Who had her father throw her out of living outside her fathers house in an unheated camper when she went to college near his home. OW didn't like that my W's mother called the house to talk to my W every Sunday and told her father to get rid of her! He threw her out without anywhere to go. She was basically homeless until her friend took her in. Now my W is calling her "mom" and gives her more time and attention than her real mother. Why is my W able to overlook those negatives but not the small ones that have ended so many R's with so many close friends and now her H and M?

Of course none of this is helpful in my current sitch. Just something I wonder about at times.I wonder if this is normal for people who are chronically depressed or just some. I wonder if her fight with depression is because of circumstances of her life or if it is in her genes and I need to worry about my D's in the future. Is it something that my W may some day be able to overcome or is she unable to stop the process and it is destined to keep happening?

Right now I just need to keep swimming toward the shore. It doesn't help to stop and ponder how I got out in the water so far from the safety of the beach. No, I just need to keep moving forward. I wish you luck in your M. You have so much good still left in your M, still have your best friend. Given enough time and patience, I really think you can have a really great M.

[ForeverYoung]

For my birthday W gave me some nice gifts. We then went out for a nature hike together. Comfortable, but still some distance.

I inadvertently rattled her a bit when I hinted for a happy ending. She let it slide without comment at the time, (and I dropped it) but then later said "Ok, this is bugging me... I don't know what it is you want me to do".

Me: "I don't want you to do anything you don't want to do... it was never my intent to make you feel uncomfortable in any way"

This totally diffused her tension and we quickly went back to being friendly partners.

Next week is W's birthday. She recently told me about a jacket she seen that she really liked, but didn't buy because it was too expensive. Guess what I got her for her birthday.

-------------

Last Wednesday W and I both took the day off work to say goodbye to our dog of 16 years. "B" was our only child, and went on several road trip vacations with us. She had been having health issues for a while, and was in much pain. W and I did everything would could for her for as long as we could. Last week we took her to the vet and hugged her as she passed. Now we are working on adjusting to life without our little angel.

[Wonka]

FY,

(((FY))) on the loss of your furry family member. It is such a heart wrenching thing to do...ugh!

I inadvertently rattled her a bit when I hinted for a happy ending. She let it slide without comment at the time, (and I dropped it) but then later said "Ok, this is bugging me... I don't know what it is you want me to do".

How did that comment come about? What was the context? Just trying to understand how your W got rattled by that simple comment. What preceded it? How? What? When?

Great...nice you got that jacket all squared away and ready for reveal on W's BD!

[TSquared2]

I believe this is the biggest issue with those who are dealing with depression. I believe from my experience with my spouse that those who have some level of depression will collect all the negative thing that happen along the way and file them for later use. This collection of negatives keeps building until it gets to a breaking point. Some trigger will eventually happen that will cause all these collected negatives to come exploding out. Who knows what it will be, but it will happen.

Those who collect negatives have not learned how to let go of things. They have not learned to forgive. Until they learn this, if ever, they will never love themselves.

Very insightful, and describes my stbxw, and she is even aware of it now. I'm not sure what/if she is doing about working through that, but awareness is a start.

[TSquared2]

I'm so sorry FY... it's so hard when our furred friends pass...

[job]

FY,
I am so very sorry about your dog. They become our children and love us unconditionally and it hurts deeply when we have to make the choice of putting them down. Please remember the goods times w/your pet and know that you and your wife did everything humanly possible for her. You both gave her the gift of helping her reach the other side w/o suffering longer than she had to.

In time, you and your wife may opt to get another little bundle of joy. But, that is down the road and you both will need to grieve the loss before that can happen. Give yourselves plenty of time to revisit those wonderful memories of her and when the time is right, a little bundle of joy will venture on to your path for you to love. The man upstairs has a way of doing this to those who have lost pets.

Take care of yourself.

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you Wonka, T2, and job, for the kind words regarding our loss. Surprisingly to me, it hasn't been as hard on us as the loss of our first dog 16 and a half years ago was. I believe one reason for this is that we knew this day was coming for more than a year... and so had more time to prepare ourselves for it. I also think the first cut was the deepest.

It seems over the last couple years, W has come to accept death as part of life. When we said goodbye to our first dog, W cried for months, and it tore me up horribly watching her. This didn't happen this time.

W and I always did, and still do, have a strong attachment/connection. I suppose that's why we are both still here. That, and there are no OP's to fill either ones needs or desires.

How did that comment come about? What was the context? Just trying to understand how your W got rattled by that simple comment. What preceded it? How? What? When?

I subscribe to the no walking on eggshells/be true to yourself school of DB. This means not being afraid to say or ask for things.

This does not mean I'm uncaring or reckless.

In the past W was always sure to give me a "special" present on my B-day. We were getting along well this year... things were comfortable. I slipped in a suggestive comment, and she didn't bite. No problem, I accepted that and forgot all about it.

W and I continued to interact like normal, getting on well.

Obviously W did not forget about the hint. She brought it up in distress much later.

Maybe she wants to please me in this area but can't? She's still here, doing plenty of other nice things for me/us. If this is the case, that is ok. I can accept that... for now.

[BrightFuture]

FY, just catching up on your posts. I’m so sorry about your dog. It brought up the memories of our last dog that was sick and we had to put him down. We both were so devastated. That was before the BD. It took us a long time to recover from this loss, and almost a year to get another dog.

FY, I am always so amazed at your continuing patience with your W. I envision that one day you are going to have an exceptional, genuine, intimate and truly beautiful relationship with your W.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for believing in me, Bright. Sometimes, I amaze myself!

I'm giving W my best for as long as I can... she deserves it. What she does with it is up to her.

I'm convinced she's giving me her best at the moment.

How could either of us give up on that?

[ForeverYoung]

Hi all my DB buddies!

I forgot to mention above that W joined me and our dog “B” in the master bed for B’s last night with us. This was the first time W and I shared the MB since BD. It was nice that she was able to do this, and I’m sure it comforted B too.

W’s b-day was yesterday and it went well. We both worked, and like usual I got home first. When she got home we enjoyed coffee together and she told me about her day... The meetings she went to, the chocolate cake her b-day buddy brought for the occasion, and the other gifts she received.

Then I gave her my gifts. My W has remained very frugal through all this, and although she really liked this fancy jacket, she wouldn’t buy it for herself because she said it was too expensive.

She was nothing but smiles when she pulled it out of the box.

I was not surprised that my little miss frugal was concerned that I didn't use her $20 off discount coupon. I did.

I even got the size right. (size is C, for CUTE!) She tried it on and commented about how soft it was, just like B's coat after a grooming. She also commented and joked about being afraid of getting it dirty. (color is ivory)

She thanked me and initiated a real, full front facing hug.

We then went out for dinner and W proudly wore her new jacket. Looked hot in it too. At dinner W mentioned her and I taking one of her company’s all inclusive fancy vacations together now that we no longer have to care for B. Over the last year B required special care, so neither one of us felt right about leaving her with anyone else.

Right before going to bed W came into the MB to thank me for the jacket and the entire night one more time. Gosh I love my girl.

Meanwhile, I’m still thinking…

[uRworthy]

Sounds lovely, my friend. Glad she was there for your dog's last night and that you got a genuine hug.

You really are a special man.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks UR. You are very kind and quite special yourself!

I cleaned and fired up our home furnace for the season last night. This was after many mornings and sometimes even afternoons with the home in the upper 50’s. Yeah, W and I are both cheapskates like that. It’s amazing how warm 62 feels now!

Coworkers planned to dress up for Halloween at my work today. I told some folks I was going to come dressed as a girl. I chickened out and took the easy path: Wore my TKD uniform and brought some martial arts weapons to show off with. Fun times. I really need to start doing more with this martial arts thing.

[daring]

FY I'm sorry to hear about your dog- I'm glad you and W had each other to lean on.
I continue to be amazed with your patience level! It really is inspirational!

I'm starting to subscribe to the same type of DB- no eggshells, they get tiring.

[2BHappy]

FY
Sorry to hear about your dog.
Glad the gift was loved and accepted from your W, good job on getting something she wanted AND using the coupon.
Excited to hear about W talking about vacations together.

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you daring and 2b for your condolences. B will be missed, but will live on in our memories.

I continue to be amazed with your patience level! It really is inspirational!

Cali said I must have truckloads of the stuff in the driveway. What he doesn't know is they dumped a couple loads on top of me!

Excited to hear about W talking about vacations together.

Now were talking about possibly hosting my entire family for Thanksgiving. Just like we did last year. My W is not bailing on the M anytime soon, if ever. I hope I don't!

[2BHappy]

YAY.

Great hosting whole family for Thanksgiving,,good food, good time, great memories!!!

I need some more patience..Im running OUT!!!

[ForeverYoung]

Patience you say? This one is for you, Happy. And me, and everyone else here who still believes their MLC spouse is worth standing for.

I heard it on a radio show tonight. The artist, Shirli McAllen of Leftover Cuties, said she wrote it for her husband when they were going though a rough patch. It's called Clarity .

You lost your smile
And it's nowhere to be found
The light you had is now buried in the ground
I search for it all over town
And I found you beating yourself down

Oh babe, I wish you knew how beautiful you are
I wish you'd see yourself only through my eyes
Then you'll know in time this too shall pass
And clarity will come to you at last

You lost your way
And there are no signs around
To guide you home
To make you safe and sound
I may take one thing, just one thing at a time
Be kind to yourself, it's surely no crime

Oh babe, I wish you knew how beautiful you are
I wish you'd see yourself only through my eyes
Then you'll know time will yield the start
And clarity will come to you at last

Until the day comes, I'll be right here by your side
I'll try again and again to make you see
You'll see you've got forever and a day
To be anything, everything you want to be

Oh bae I wish you knew how beautiful you are
I wish you'd see yourself only through my eyes
Then you'll know time will heal your aching heart
And clarity will come to you at last

Clarity will come to you at last
Clarity will come to you at last.

[Wet]

Thank you FY. That was soooo beautiful.

[Matt165]

I Cried the first time I heard this song. It speaks volumes to all the LBS's here going through so much pain. Everyone here cares about and loves their MLC S or they wouldn't bother to even try. If only our WAS's could truly see just how much we do care about them, how much they are throwing away. They may be going through a "crisis", dealing with past pains but is the cost (paid more by those that love them most) really worth whatever they may gain? If only they could see that more loss, the loss of someone that truly loves them, can never bring anything near "happiness" or "joy"!

[daring]

FY I've been sharing with lots of folks that you have the hookup to super duper extra large DB shovels with Kevlar hand grips
You might need to place some extra orders for us all!!

[ForeverYoung]

Michele tells us we will need plenty of patience if we intend to see our M outlast our spouses MLC. The vets here remind us the same thing every day. So what can we do to dig up some more patience when we really need it?

--------------

Like any normal person in a strained M for almost 3 years, I sometimes want to toss in the towel. Then I remind myself that my W is going through a very difficult period in her life. She is doing the best she can. I want to give her my best. Stand by her for as long as I can because she is worth it. Maybe you feel the same way about your spouse.

After all my W and I have had together, after all we've been through together, it seems silly to throw it all away and start over. I truly believe that when we make it through this, we will have something even more special. Something that takes years and trials to achieve. A Mature Love.

In many ways, we already do have this! I just need to not give up on it.

I explained the above in a discussion with my DB friend Raine. Here are a few highlights...

See, there you have it.
You know what you want and the wait will be worth it. Sometimes it's working through the other side of things to figure it out. You can be happy anywhere, in any situation.

Basically, I want to help others like me who are tired, but don't want to give up. Marriages are worth saving!

Yes they are. I'm so glad that I saved mine. There is a lot to deal with, but there would be so much more, and so much worse to deal with otherwise. And I just don't think there is any guy out there that even measures up, as crazy as that sounds with what he did. I would still pick him every day.

I believe happiness comes down to perspective more than circumstance. To a large extent, we decide how happy or unhappy we are, no matter what is going on in our life. Read Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" for more regarding this.

DB teaches us to live our life for us. Make any changes for us. Get a Life outside of the old relationship. Find our own meaning and purpose. If we do this properly, how can we go wrong?

[ForeverYoung]

I had a similar conversation with reachingHigher. She told me her and TVS were recently discussing how long this takes...

I'm still amazed we are back together! And not just together in the same M, but totally in love and connected in all ways--mentally, physically, socially, emotionally--connected in goals and dreams as well but letting each other retain our individuality.

So I guess we are finishing a second year of reconciliation. And I can tell you, FY, it is good. Really good. I am SO glad I stayed through all the pain and B.S.

So, hang in there, thanks for your message.

Thank you RH and Raine, for giving us more reasons to be patient.

[CaliGuy]

FY .. I follow your sitch .. and the things you post are inspirational. I feel the same as you .. looking towards what can be and what I want more than looking at the present. Hope ... its amazing how just a little can fuel a person for more than you would imagine. Its all I need here and there... just a glimpse of hope.

[fthnluv]

FY- catching up on your sitch. I just want to say that the way you are handling this with such a great attitude is an inspiration. I hope to be there one day. Thank you for this thread.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks, Cali. The key to me is finding a way to make the most of every day, right where we are. We only have XX,XXX amount of days... gotta enjoy each one! If we're not enjoying our days, we need to make adjustments.

We can't afford to get attached to any outcome. We need to know we will be good no matter what happens.

I feel I NEED to see what is on the other side of W's crisis. Our long term M deserves that. The plan right now is to still be there when she finally gets through this. The only way to do that is to care for myself... oh, and not bail!

[ForeverYoung]

FY- catching up on your sitch. I just want to say that the way you are handling this with such a great attitude is an inspiration. I hope to be there one day. Thank you for this thread.

You will. Be patient with yourself, this stuff hurts and takes time to get through. Most of all know that you will be ok. Better than ok!

[TSquared2]

I feel I NEED to see what is on the other side of W's crisis. Our long term M deserves that. The plan right now is to still be there when she finally gets through this. The only way to do that is to care for myself... oh, and not bail!

If your W decided she just didn't want the M anymore, and moved out, and wanted a D, and you actually got D, would you still "need" to see what's on the other side?

Curious...

[ForeverYoung]

I feel I NEED to see what is on the other side of W's crisis. Our long term M deserves that. The plan right now is to still be there when she finally gets through this. The only way to do that is to care for myself... oh, and not bail!

If your W decided she just didn't want the M anymore, and moved out, and wanted a D, and you actually got D, would you still "need" to see what's on the other side?

Curious...

Thanks for dropping by, T!

To some extent I imagine I still would. I would still have feelings for my W. But since I've never been in that situation, and at this point HER leaving or D'ing seems highly unlikely, I really don't think I could say. Who knows? What says you? (and everyone else)

[Jack_Three_Beans]

If a MLC takes years to work through, isn't there bound to be some stagnation in there? What with the whole "we can't fix 'em" and all?

You asked me this question on Cali's thread and I'd like to respond.

Getting a different response is not fixing them, and my thoughts on changing things only apply if you can no longer handle the status quo/stagnation of the situation.

A different response can be anything from them being a little nicer to them not involving you in their drama...whatever YOU need to make it for as long as you can through their MLC.

This whole MLC trip your involvement, lasts only as long as you are willing to be a part of it.

Did that make any sense?

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you for your response, Jack. It's so nice to have you back active on the board.

If things are stagnant...not changing, you owe it to yourself to change something and see how what happens.

If a MLC takes years to work through, isn't there bound to be some stagnation in there? What with the whole "we can't fix 'em" and all?

You asked me this question on Cali's thread and I'd like to respond.

Getting a different response is not fixing them, and my thoughts on changing things only apply if you can no longer handle the status quo/stagnation of the situation.

A different response can be anything from them being a little nicer to them not involving you in their drama...whatever YOU need to make it for as long as you can through their MLC.

This whole MLC trip your involvement, lasts only as long as you are willing to be a part of it.

Did that make any sense?

Yes it does. I never thought the reason for us to change something was to fix our spouse. Your follow up thoughts "changing things only apply if you can no longer handle the status quo/stagnation of the situation" clarifies it for me.

Except for brief moments here and there, I have no problem handling our status quo/stagnation situation. My wife is pleasant to me and there is virtually no drama. I feel she is working through her crisis... ever so slowly. As much as I am happy there is no OP, I sometimes think if there was it would speed things up. I believe the term is wallower.

Of course I could bail at any time, but since I'm fairly content with everything else, it would just be for physical intimacy/sex. Then too we have the 35 (very decent) years together thing going... that's worth a lot to me. So even though at some point it may happen, bailing seems so silly.

So I'm back to patience... and cracking jokes...

Better equipment...makes me laugh. All I can think about is a high chrome polish jack rabbit personal massager with 16 different modes.

My wife likes rabbits. Would giving her one of these for Christmas count as "changing something"?

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks in part to my playful prodding, sister in law who has never hosted Thanksgiving before will be hosting it this year! W and I will be bringing a butternut squash/polenta dish that she did a test run on last weekend... It was very good! The entire family is looking forward to the day.

Even with the cold weather the brave souls in my Saturday morning group bicycle ride still roll on. The last 2 weeks I invited my neighbor, who is also a cyclist, to join us. His W of 33 years recently passed due to long term health issues she had been dealing with. She was only 57. W and I attended the service, as did his out of state family and other neighbors. Since his family has returned home he enjoys our rides, and more importantly the socializing.

I recently finished up a restoration on an almost 50 year old bicycle. This particular model is popular with collectors and is quite valuable. It was given to me by my father in law who found it in the trash! I have another project bike right behind it.

I also found a ladies frame cruiser that my Dad mentioned he wanted because at almost 78 it is easier for him to mount and dismount. He was trilled!

W has taken a turn towards happiness the past couple of weeks. More telling me stories, showing me FB posts on her iPad, more smiling, more life in her eyes. She has gotten regular with exercising again, so I'm certain that has a lot to do with it. Adequate exercise is so important to our wellbeing!

W continues to tell me about her (nighttime) dreams, and I'm happy to report there haven't been any bad ones with me in them for quite a while now. Yay!

It seems that time measurement has been lost though. A couple of months ago W couldn't remember if our dog was 15 or 16, which is odd for her. Then when she recently initiated a conversation about the anniversary of a neighbor who had died 2 years ago, she thought it was 3. She also thought her Moms passing (The Big Trigger) was 4 years ago when it was only 3! I guess it seems like longer to her.

Sometimes I can't believe it's been almost 3 years... and that we're both still here!

Enjoying each new day as it comes…

[Wonka]

Dear My Other Crush,

What a wonderful update! Yeah, it seems that your W is slowly coming to life once again. Shoot, I can't compete with her. Throwing down my towel for your affections.

Keep going. You're doing GREAT! Might want to try taking up skateboarding (tongue in cheek).

[job]

I am very happy to read your posting. I had a smile on my face as I read each paragraph, but especially the one about your w's turn towards happiness. FY, this is a huge baby step in the right direction.

I'm glad to see that you and your group are still biking even while it's getting colder outside. I'm sure your restoration of the bike looks great and what a wonderful hobby to get into. You can see your progress from start to finish and when you are done, you can step back and be proud of what you've done.

You have to remember that MLCers tend to lose time in the tunnel. They trip is on a slow clock, whereas we are on the real time and days, months and even years are so very different for them. As she continues to wake up, she'll begin to see just how much time has passed, as well as how things have changed. She's like Rip Van Winkle!

Continue to do what you've been doing as it's worked for you. I do hope that you and your w will enjoy your Thanksgiving w/your sister in law and family. It should be interesting to she how well she does since this will be her first rodeo hosting it. LOL!

Take care.

[daring]

Hey there FY- catching up and so happy to hear about the changes in W. I hope they continue to progress.

Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[ForeverYoung]

Might want to try taking up skateboarding...

If I do will you reconsider throwing in the towel?

Continue to do what you've been doing as it's worked for you. I do hope that you and your w will enjoy your Thanksgiving w/your sister in law and family. It should be interesting to she how well she does since this will be her first rodeo hosting it. LOL!

Thank you so much for this, job. It is so nice to hear these words of validation (bolded by me above) from someone with all the experience and knowledge you possess on the entire MLC topic.

My wife and I have already talked about how this year (with SIL hosting Thanksgiving) will be "different", but still fine. SIL is not the Martha Stewart that my wife and sister are.

Hey there FY- catching up and so happy to hear about the changes in W.

Thank you, daring. It's been a very slow change, and very hard to sense when you're as close as I am. But after looking over some of my posts here from a year ago, I'm convinced there is an acceptance of sorts, and a warming up in her heart. It's been quite a while since I've heard about "not caring if I die".

We've got a ways to go, and it all could blow up and be tossed away, but I am so glad I haven't yet given up on us.

--------------

Funny story. Last night my wife was in the kitchen cooking and cleaning for hours. (made us a really nice dinner) I noticed the room looked a little hazy and asked her if she noticed it too. She said she did. So I opened a couple of windows, but it made no difference.

Then, the light bulb went off in my head. It had been raining all day, and we had two humidifiers going in the house. When I checked, the humidity in the house was at 86%! When I told W of my discovery she said "maybe you better turn off the humidifiers before it starts raining in here!"

[Wonka]

FY,

Might want to try taking up skateboarding...

If I do will you reconsider throwing in the towel?

I'd pay BIG bucks to see you stakeboarding! I dare ya...you'll probably go about 3 wobbly yards before crashing down on your sorry butt.

[reachingHigher]

Hi FY!

Great update with you and W!

I wanted to share that my H still has no concept of the time that passed during MLC. Even now, he recollects things either way too long by years, or way too short. I've gotten used to this and don't really try to correct him.

Its really true they lose their sense of time passing.

Last night, I read aloud to my H this quote from the National Assoc. of Realtors:

"The Atlantic has an interesting article on the real drop in contentment seen across cultures by those in their 40s, AKA the Midlife Crisis. Contentment turns out be U-shaped, dropping though your 20s and 30s as most of us fail to live up to our high expectations and dreams and rising in our 50s as we outperform our now less exalted goals. Overall happiness actually continues to rise as we age through our golden years. It’s a bit long, but worth a read, especially if you’re Gen X and are going through a slump."

I asked H if that rang true for him. Was MLC a result of dream and goal failure?

He said there was some amount of "if I don't do it now, it will never happen in my life". But he mostly looked at my blankly,

Then he said that he was so much more content than last year, than the year before that as well. And he couldn't imagine getting into his 50's and being so content, but he believed it could happen. He said, he especially believed there was happiness in his future, as he never foresaw that he could get out of his MLC depression.

I asked him if he was happy now. He doesn't use the term "happy", he uses the term "content". And he acts that way.

I'm so encouraged, FY, you have been able to continue to wait for W. It sounds so positive that she is slowly moving towards this "contentment".

And funny story about the humidity!!!!

[Wonka]

rH,

I can echo what you said about having no concept of time and contentment.

For me, I try and try to recall the years I had my MLC and draw a blank. It frustrates me hugely because I have a very good memory. Something about MLCer and Swiss Cheese. I'd love to know the science behind all of this.

As for contentment, I am much more mellow and relaxed now than during my frantic, desperate MLC years. That's for sure! I believe that deep contentment will happen with me in short order and I'm looking forward to it.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks for dropping by, RH! It’s so nice to know that things continue to get better with you and your husband. Hearing his thoughts post crisis is always enlightening, and gives me hope.

I agree that contentment is a much better term for where we should aim to be than happy. One could make themselves happy for brief periods, (a few beers does it for me!) but still not be content overall. Contentment is not so fleeting… more of a feeling of wellbeing over long periods. Certainly the place we want to be whether we are dealing with a crisis or not! How to get there is what this wonderful board is all about.

Wonka, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe “science” has ever acknowledged MLC as a real condition. Yet here we all are with similar stories and scripts. Something is going on!

Oh, and since I did learn how to ride a unicycle, (had the sorry sore behind to prove it!) skateboards don’t scare me one bit. I'm ready to roll when you are!

[Wonka]

FY,

Wonka, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe “science” has ever acknowledged MLC as a real condition. Yet here we all are with similar stories and scripts. Something is going on!

What I meant by the comment earlier is wishing to know why we get Swiss Cheese memory. It is as if there's holes in our brain. Why??!!! That is the crux of my frustration.

Oh, and since I did learn how to ride a unicycle, (had the sorry sore behind to prove it!) skateboards don’t scare me one bit. I'm ready to roll when you are!

This does bring back good childhood memories. I remember receiving a unicycle as a gift and wasn't interested. Instead a neighbor boy at my age was gung-ho about it so he faithfully practiced with me and another boy as anchors. Then one day, he was off riding by all himself without any support.

Oh and the skateboards? I am ready! I was the skateboard champ in my neighborhood. There was one long concrete bike path behind our neighborhood that was surrounded by trees. so all of the kids would gather on Saturday afternoons and give our skateboards a go on the bike path which was filled with both small and very large hills.

One day...we all were going extremely fast and I was going downhill on one particularly steep hill. Ran right directly into the fence. Only my pride was hurt. Grrrr.

Yeah...I'm game to for skateboarding with you, FY. Not too long ago, I went to the storage area and saw my skateboard with my name burned into it. Brought a smile to my face.

[daring]

If yall do this skateboard thing can you find a way to post a video???

Part of my goals including giggling more

[ForeverYoung]

There's a skate park near my house. If Wonka shows up with her board, I'll be happy to post the results!

I can assure you that if I'm on video, there will be plenty of giggling!

[ForeverYoung]

My wife and I had a nice Christmas, enjoying time with both of our families. Like every year, we do X-mas eve at my parent’s home with my 1 brother, 2 sisters, their partners and kids. Another brother is out of state and could not join us, so we all sang a Christmas carol to him over the phone! Lots of joking around, games and good food.

Christmas day we see my wife’s Dad, her one brother and his fiancé. More food, good times and gifts.

I continue to enjoy my bicycle hobby- Recently sold two 45+ year old classics I restored to help fund a new commuter bike I’m getting for riding to work. I have more in process of being refurbished. I like it when my hobby can pay for itself.

I went ice skating with my kickball group recently. First time on the ice in more than 15 years. I only wiped out once!

Michelle said something about “finding our own goodies” in the MLC chapter. Most important is this in order for us to thrive. GAL I believe it is called. No matter how well we do it though, we still will desire closeness with a partner. I’m still hoping for the physical intimacy to return.

My wife continues to exercise regularly, which is a good sign. She also was quite generous with the X-mas gifts for me. I’ll continue to be patient and see where this goes… for now.

FY: You've taught all of us what true grace means in your unconditional love for your W. You've got a fan here who has this massive crush on you.

Aww, you’re so sweet, Wonka. Let’s go for a ride on a bicycle built for two!

[uRworthy]

So happy you had a good Christmas, my friend.

Really cool about the bikes and the ice skating. Good on you.

I continue to keep you and your wife in my prayers.

Have a wonderful New Year. I am hoping it brings you not only what you want, but, what you need.

<3

[job]

I am so happy to come here and read that Christmas was a nice one and you enjoyed spending time w/both families.

FY, you've found your groove! Look at all of the things you are doing now and the fun you are having discovering/rediscovering those things that you may have put aside a while ago.

Keep up the good work!

[TSquared2]

Good for you, having a great holiday and finding a market for your hobby!!

I'm glad she seems to be taking some action, the exercise is a good sign... and so may be buying you some nice gifts.

As long as YOU are okay, keep going...

[daring]

FY I'm so glad that Christmas was good for you and W! I think the gifts are a good sign- she's thinking about and focusing on you,'not just herself, which seems to be progress. I hope the new year brings joy and more progress in your sitch!

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you, UR. I truly feel I have everything I need, but I think you know what I want.

Job, I lean more towards the introvert end of the scale, so I go out with others some, but many of the things I enjoy are solo. My wife is even more introverted than me. It is who we are and that's ok. Thank you for giving me inspiration, and I hope you have a great new year!

T, thanks for dropping by. Yes, I'm ok and will keep going. Thankfully, I still feel young enough to not be in a hurry here. She still wants me at some level, no doubt about that.

Daring, my wife has always been a gifter, and never really stopped with that. It seems we're both in this for the long haul so we might as well make the best of it and enjoy each day. I hope your game night went well!

Yesterday while installing some new equipment at work, I crunched my thumb pretty good. Went to the clinic and received stitches. It's my right hand so maybe I'll have to ask my wife to help out with certain duties.

[BrightFuture]

So, any update about how these certain "duties" are going?

[essjay]

Hi ForeverYoung
I want to thank you for taking the time to stop in and offer me your thoughts on my situation. It means a lot to me when someone with your experience reaches out to help me. What a great place this board is.
'The Fellowship of The Board' eh - reminds me of a movie I once saw!

I've spent a while reading through all your different threads and what a journey it's been for you!
Your optimism, humour and patience in the face of this adversity is to be admired and a good lesson for me.
Keep on keeping on my friend and I really hope you'll get to where you want to be.
Sending my best wishes to you and following your situation with great interest.

Jay

[ForeverYoung]

So, any update about how these certain "duties" are going?

Very well BF, thanks for asking. Wife wrote out the bills for me this week. I'm not sure what you were thinking.

SJ, you are very welcome. I'm happy if I can help, like so many here have helped me.

[ForeverYoung]

Hi everyone!

I’ve been saying that I needed to do more with the martial arts, since losing my last training partner several months ago. I found a local martial arts school at a reasonable rate and signed up a few weeks back. I’m now training regularly with a nice size group, and there are several others who are at my belt level or above, which is good.

I figure I won’t be Young Forever, so it was either step it up now, or start to lose it. I’ve been enjoying the new challenge and motivation, and the master instructor and other students are very happy to have me in the group! Yay!

The bicycle hobby is still going full speed over here, and I’m even still pedaling to work once or twice a week through our cold winter weather. Last weekend I met up with a local cyclist who I met on a forum. We went out for a ride and enjoyed talking over coffee and snacks afterwards. Likely will meet up again for more fun.

You may have noticed I’ve been cutting back on my time spent on the DB boards (and FB) for a while now. It’s nothing personal, I still love and care for many of you. It’s just something I need to do for me. Take a break and just enjoy life as it comes, not worrying about any marriage issues.

My wife and I are still getting along well, playing house and doing family stuff together. And we are still not intimate. If we ever are going to be again, it has to happen naturally, not forced, so I’m just letting it go.

She continues to exercise regularly, (but not to excess) is healthy and looks good. Has many good days, and a few bad, emotionally. One day in particular last week she came home from work totally frustrated and stressed. Made comments about ending it all. I expressed my sorrow that she had such a tough day, served dinner and then gave her space.

As usual, being in our home calms and relaxes her, and she felt much better after a bit. Even with me there!

Actually, I’d say I’m a big reason why this is so. Me continuing to show love and all that junk. Hopefully she’ll figure things out and start warming up a bit in those special ways that only a wife can, before it’s too late.

Thanks for reading, and I hope you all are doing well too. Life is too short to live it in pain. Bust On!

[reachingHigher]

Hi FY!

Thanks for the good update. It sounds healthy for both you individually and you together.

I like that you continue to pursue your own interests. You and your wife share a home and a strong, deep friendship and love. I do hope her heart warms to you physically soon but it sounds like she has some issues still to work out.

Do take care and continue to keep us updated from time to time.

Thank you for your help recently during a little blip on my H's and my relationship screen.

We continue to grow closer and I am so glad I didn't overdo my reaction to that one night.

[ForeverYoung]

You are welcome RH, and thank you for all the help you've given and continue to give me! I wish we could meet up again.

Update...

Today my wife and I had it out. She is still in deep turmoil, and not happy with her life or me. She was in tears and said some hurtful things, like how she works way harder than I do, how I have it easier than her, and that I'm "in my own little world". Also that we have no connection and never did.

I validated as best I could, while also expressing my true feelings. My plan is to be open, and tell it how it is. No games, no withholding. What ever happens, happens.

I said that we don't talk enough to have a great connection. Sure, we talk, but mostly trivial day to day stuff, not from the heart. I reminded her that 3 years ago (!) she said she wanted to "be independent" and do things for herself. Also that I told her up front I would give her the space and time she needed.

I said none of this is what I wanted, but that I accepted it... for now.

She told me many of my shortcomings, and how I let her down... stuff I never hear unless we get into relationship talks, which only happens a couple of times a year.

I accepted the criticism that I felt was valid, and stood up for myself if it was not. All while trying to not get into convincing roll. (because that never works) I also told my wife I was doing my best for her, and would continue to for as long as I could.

Afterwards, everything was back to the "new normal"... living as friendly roommates, playing house and doing things for each other. I can't help but believe we both still want each other.

I also can't believe it has been almost 3 years since BD. I often wonder what the future holds.

[uRworthy]

Hey my friend. Sorry you had to hear some hurtful things. Sounds like you handled it in your "FY' way.

She isnt cooked yet, FY. Still depressed. Still in crisis.

I think of you often and hope that things turn around for you one day.

You really are a special man. Wish we could meet up again one day, too.

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks UR! I'd love for us to meet up again too.

Yeah, it wasn't fun to hear, but because I can see and feel my wife's personal despair, I didn't take the hurtful comments too personally.

I know I hurt her prior to BD, and I want to be here for her when she is in such pain.

So here I stand. Doing my best by her, and taking care of my own happiness. It's mostly all good. It's all about perspective. I remind myself that no situation is perfect.
-------------------

As we do every weekend, my wife and I visited her elderly, widowed dad. He was excited to view his recent vacation pictures from his new digital camera on our laptop. He showed us some of the latest projects he's working on, and told us about his possible plans to move to a new area.

Later, while we were alone, my wife said to me "Dad always seems to have something to look forward too. I have nothing."

I asked her what she was going to do about that. She said she does't know.

Then we went to a home show, and talked with contractors about doing a master bath remodel. Had lunch and coffee together, and stopped at a dealer and looked at possible fancy new car options.

When we got home she made a nice dinner for us, while I fixed the 4 wheel drive on her aging vehicle. Said good night and went to our own beds. Bust On!

[ForeverYoung]

Hi DB Friends!

It's been a while, so I wanted to post an update.

Things are fairly decent and quite steady in my world but I'm human. So like most humans, I want more. This "more" consists of a greater physical relationship with my wife. I really miss this, and feel like eventually something has to give.

I've been making my desires known, because I need to for my well being... and I can. No walking on eggshells, no STFU.

Bottom line is she is not ready. But I have planted some seeds and will allow them time to grow.

I tried something new (and a bit shocking ) a little while ago that didn't quite "work" as I had hoped... but it also didn't blow anything up... And it did spark a constructive conversation the next day, and more importantly, some movement.

I stressed just how important a physical relationship is to me. Said I didn't want her to be surprised when I could no longer do without.

She says I'm a great guy and she "Loves" me, but is not "attracted" to me and never was. (this "Never was" is actually good to hear, because I know it's not true and can change!)

Knowing she doesn't have an OP, I asked if she thought she'd ever want a physical relationship with a man again. She said probably some day, but she's not looking for anyone now. (this is nothing I didn't already know, but Yay us! Right?)

We live together and talk enough that it's quite apparent to me that she is still in crisis. She still occasionally makes comments of "having nothing", and one time even mentioned about how it was difficult to look in the mirror.

My poor sweetheart! If you only knew how special you are!

But the crisis seems nothing like it was a couple of years ago. There have been some changes for the better... mostly she is not as uncomfortable as she was. So maybe I need to allow moooooore time? All I know is I'm getting itchy, so I'm making it known... constructively.

I do every thing I want, and am generally happy with my life. I just want a little action with my wife again. Honestly, it wouldn't even take that much, honey!

But it's not just about what I want, it's about what my wife wants too. So here we are.

In a few days we will be going away to a luxurious, all inclusive resort together! This is something my wife booked for us through her work (at great discount... we're both cheapskates and our savings keep piling up) The trip will be a chance to relax, have a good time, and get to better know each others thoughts and feelings. I know she is a bit uncomfortable with it because she doesn't want anything physical. My plan is to continue to be myself and let things play out. Wish us well!

Life is all about perspective. It will always be a struggle as long as we see it that way. In her chapter on MLC, Michele tells us we need to “Find our own goodies” while our spouse is out finding themselves. How we do that is completely up to us, but I do know it is very important! If we are struggling, or are not happy, WE need to fix it. No one else can do it for us. Not only will doing this "save" us, but it will make us more attractive too.

Bust On, everyone!

[job]

FY,
She's still baking up and nicely too. Slowly but surely is the way to go. At least she's settling down and has been honest about how she feels right now at the attraction to you. She's still suffering from some depression and hopefully once that lifts she'll feel differently.

I hope that you and your wife will enjoy your time away at the resort. Relax, have fun and best of all, get to know one another again in a different environment.

[Wonka]

Hey FY...my other crush!

Thanks for the flyby update. I dearly hope, HOPE your W comes around soon.

[ForeverYoung]

Thank you so much for the words of wisdom and well wishes, Job and Wonka!

My wife and I just got home from our trip away. We were waited on hand and foot and spoiled like crazy... it was quite an amazing resort. We did a lot of fun things together and even had a tiny bit of action... which, after 3+ years was totally amazing.

Had some serious discussion too, and some realizations on my part. More to come...

[ForeverYoung]

My wife and I both enjoyed our time together on our anniversary trip. The resort staff decorated our room, made an announcement in the daily flyer, and delivered a special breakfast to our room. We did a workout in the gym the first day, a group bike tour another. One afternoon was spent receiving spa treatments, and enjoying the many amenities of the spa. Every night we shared the same bed. The majority of the balance of our time was spent laying/playing/drinking on the beach or by the pool, or dressing up for fancy dinners. Yes, we both got mild sun burn.

We spent one entire day visiting some ancient Mayan ruins, and then a large Cenote!

At the ruins, we learned about Mayan history, and got some great pictures as we climbed the many buildings and steep stairways. Our guide actually worked with archeologists who studied and reconstructed the area, so he really knew his stuff. In our group, only one other guy and myself made to the top of the tallest building. It was quite exhilarating!

At the Cenote (natural sink hole) we rappelled from ground level down a hundred feet into the water! We could hear and see bats flying around. There also was a zip line and platforms to play off of. The lunch afterwards was amazing and we enjoyed it while talking with others in our group who were from many different areas of the United States.

At dinner the first night we had a “State of the Union” discussion. Again, I wanted my wife to understand just how important this is to me, and how I didn’t want her to be surprised when I could no longer do without. (per Michele in her book SSM) We also discussed SA, which is almost certainly the largest factor driving the most troublesome part of our marriage. My wife is not yet feeling good about herself, so even though she has been reaching out to me physically, (basically because of the talks) she’s not feeling it. I need to go slow and continue to be “safe” and not push too much, even while I’m frustrated like crazy and just want to throw in the towel at times. It’s a tough line to walk, but hey, I'm sure her walk is even tougher. Still lovin’ my girl!

[job]

FY,
I'm so happy that you both enjoyed your time away. I think it was a good trip because both of you could relax and leave the daily stressors at home.

Your trip was fun and educational and I'm sure you both enjoyed the ruins and the many activities that were available.

FY, I know there are times when you want to toss in the towel, but look how far you both have come. Her climb to the top of the MLC mountain is so much harder for her. I know you hear this from me all of the time, but...dig deeper for patience.

I admire the way that you've handled your situation and I want to see both of you cross that finish line and find your way back to each other. Sending you a dozen patience shovels to help you along the way.

[ForeverYoung]

I admire the way that you've handled your situation

This REALLY means a lot to me, especially coming from you, job! Thank you so much for this, and all your support along the way.

Things keep getting better over here. The comfort between us continues to grow. Each of us showing love through actions.

7. Accept a gift of love
Sometimes, as things improve and your spouse is trying to be more caring about your needs, s/he might decide to become intimate with you even though sex might not be a burning desire. Rather than feeling insulted or put off, you should accept this as a gift of love. In good relationships, people do things for their spouses all the time that may not be exactly what they feel like doing at the moment. That's okay. In fact, that's more than okay. That's great. That's real giving. Real giving is when you give to your partner what your partner wants and needs whether or not you understand it, like it , or agree with it. Allow your spouse to show his/her love by being sexual even if it wasn't his/her favorite thing to do at the moment. Accept the gift and appreciate it. Good marriages are build on this kind of caring.

The more my wife reaches out to me, the more I want to do for her. It now seems like a snowball rolling down a hill, building on itself. I’m so glad I was a dreamer (did you see the songs in all my threads? ) and never lost hope.

I truly believe we’ve got this.

[Wonka]

FY,

It's great hearing from you. You do have TONS of patience. Wow.

Hey, you want to make sure that the snowball stays small...not become quite large like a boulder.

[CaliGuy]

FY

That SA thing is a tough nugget to crack. I think you are beyond patient with your W ... its truly something I look up to with your sitch as I struggle with it very badly but know its a long road back to where I would like to be.

Rooting for you man.

[BrightFuture]

FY, it is great to “hear” that there is some progress in your sitch. As I mentioned before, I admire your patience and love for your W. I hope she realizes one day how incredibly lucky she is. I think she will… I can see that… If you need some encouragement, I’m your cheerleader! I’m rooting for you and your W to create a new and amazing R!

And, yes, be careful with that snowball though

[ForeverYoung]

Thanks, Wonka!

"Tons of patience" ?

I suppose. I sincerely like my life and the way things have been progressing. My wife is not going anywhere, talks of our future together, and is giving me her best during the most difficult time in her life. Sure, I could bail on the marriage to go find that one piece that I feel is lacking, but doing that will hurt both of us greatly. I honestly don't see a pot of happiness for either of us at the end of any divorce rainbow.

My point of the snowball is that loving actions build more loving actions. It’s a good thing. I'm not sure why I wouldn’t want to foster it and see it continue to grow. Your thoughts regarding this please.

Cali! You and I both met our wives at the same, very young age of 18, and shared our entire lives with them. Something you wrote to me a while back...

Like you I keep my sense of humor, have had her in my life since 18 and haven't known anyone else, nor cared to. I have said it to people who don't understand ... I love once, sure it may not work out, one day I may have to send her out to sea, I know deep to the core of me I will never love another the way I loved her. How could I .... 24 years? (Adds fingers in head) ... yeah

Do you still feel this way? After 36 years with my wife, I do.

I’m your cheerleader! I’m rooting for you and your W to create a new and amazing R!

Thank you so much, Bright! I honestly feel what my wife and I have now is amazing! That's why I'm still in this. And the recent progress has been extra nice.

Bust On!

[CaliGuy]

FY

I do. I think its hard to explain to some who have not been with the same person ... seen the growth, the maturation, the blossoming of a girl who turns into a woman all while being 'your girl' ..... now some can argue that there is a serious Co-Dependency that results in such types of relationships and I am not so sure I could disagree with them ... but I do think had I not been so connected with her I would not have 'standed' this long.

To answer....I still feel that way, that 'to the core' kind of love will always be there for me with her, sometimes I wish it weren't so ... even more I wish she did not know it too. Its that unconditional love I think ... even with the pains and the hurts .. still there and most likely in some form always will be. Accepting this .... giving myself permission to love her anyways actually helped me detach some, she might not be mine to love but I will anyways from afar, smile for the time, look back with a smile .. but look forward with a bigger one knowing I will be ok regardless.

[ForeverYoung]

My wife and I had a wonderful day on our actual anniversary day this past week. We both took the day off work and visited a zoo in a nearby state. Later, we stopped at a botanical garden and strolled thorough and enjoyed the beauty of nature.

Best of all, we did this with the most arm in arm and hand holding we've experienced since pre-BD. Even had a few kisses and my wife kissed back!

On the way home we went out for a nice dinner, and afterwards met up with friends for drinks.

Before bed, my wife thanked me for a fun day.

The next day, both back at work, we exchanged this email:

Me: I really enjoyed our Anniversary day together yesterday. Thanks for everything you do, and for being my partner all these years. It truly means a lot to me!

Wife: It was a nice day. We did and saw a lot.
Agreed, it's been a lot of years too that we have made through together.

Have I ever said that I love my girl?

Thanks everybody!

[job]

FY,
What a nice way to spend time together on your anniversary. It sounds like things are right on track and she's waking up a bit more each day.

Keep up the good work!

[lionhrt]

sounds wonderful FY. So glad to see how much progress you have made since I last viewed the boards.

and happy belated anniversary!

[BrightFuture]

Happy anniversary, FY. Your updates always brighten up my day. And, I’m first in line to get that patience shovel when you are ready to pass it on

[job]

FY,
It's time to start a new thread before this one locks.