So met W for drinks last night. We spent almost 3 hrs just talking and catching up. I made sure to look her in the eyes when she spoke, asked questions and validated as often as I could. Even tried an appetizer that normally I would not have (she's complained that I'm a picky eater and she's more adventurous). It actually wasn't too bad : )
So right before we went to leave, W made a remark about not really figuring anything out. We spent the next 10-15 mins talking about us and I came away with the following: * W is getting tired of staying at her friend's place, but can't afford a place of her own. Feels like financial struggles are forcing her to come back home, which she doesn't want to do.
*She admits that as recently as last week she missed me and thought about hanging out. I think what I got from her is that ideally she'd be able to afford her own place, then the two of us could hang out and see if we'd be able to build a relationship from square one. I asked if she'd be interested in hanging out from time to time these next couple mos as I had a decision to make too, but didn't really get a yes/no answer from her. I didn't push it any further. With rebuilding trust being a big thing for me, I don't know that I could see her having her own place and me feeling comfortable that OM is not there while we 'date'. We'll deal with that should the time come though.
*I asked if she'd want to go to MC, not to commit to R, but rather to have a more comfortable environment to talk to each other. IC had actually suggested this to me. Didn't get an answer either way, but she said she felt safe talking to me.
*W admitted that she had been upset with me because I tell her that I understand (=validate), but then turn around and accuse her of things. I told her that I agreed with her- that finding out things such as her going away with OM (and friends) hurts, but I also explained that her actions don't always match her words (or how she tells me she's feeling). Lesson learned- STFU and continue to validate.
*We both agreed that with her new work schedule, having the kids overnight once they start school in late Aug is going to be very difficult. i don't see her being able to afford her own place by then.
Overall, I thought the night went pretty well. It's more time spent 1 on 1 than we've had since Jan, so had lots of catching up to do. I debated on getting right into D talk (since that's what I had 'threatened') and probably should have (I'm expecting 2x4s), but ended up just going with the flow as it was nice to actually talk with her. I feel like she did open up to me a little bit and it at least sounds like she's willing to consider dating each other these next few mos. There wasn't really a good time to address the elephant in the room (OM) and I didn't want to end the night on a bad note after being friendly for 3 hrs. I'd like to see how the next week or two goes- whether she reaches out to me or communication increases. I may try asking her out again in a couple weeks and gauge her response, but until then staying somewhat dark.
Well, it seems I am the one to sound negative, but in reading your post, I could not see her encouraging you at all. Even when you pressed her, she would not give a straight answer. To me, that says she doesn't want to return to the M. At the very least, she's not ready. And she's not going to be ready as long as she's involved with OM.
What she said about not wanting to return home due to financial struggle is right. If that's the grounds for going back home, it's doomed before it even has a chance. The only way it will be successful is b/c she "wants" to be with "you" and no other reason (having the family together, or being able to live in her house, etc.) Although those things play a part of what she misses, it has to be "you" she returns to. Nothing else.
I hate to see you start dating her, knowing she's still involved with OM. But you have to do what you think is right.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
At the very least, she's not ready. And she's not going to be ready as long as she's involved with OM.
I agree- As far as the OM, she continues to tell me they are just friends and I have no way of knowing if that's true or not. Obviously I think her actions show otherwise (going to a party out of town with him and friends). But I agree that he needs to be totally out of the picture if we are to R. I don't know how I feel about 'dating' my W while they're still in contact.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
The only way it will be successful is b/c she "wants" to be with "you" and no other reason (having the family together, or being able to live in her house, etc.) Although those things play a part of what she misses, it has to be "you" she returns to. Nothing else.
Agree here too. Maybe I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I do get the feeling in talking with her that she does want to be with me, but right now feels like she's being forced. She's told me numerous times that she only wants to work on things if she feels it's the right decision. And right now, I think she feels that money, living arrangements, etc are forcing her hand. If she had her own place with full independence and the reality of D, she'd feel more confident in feeling that it's a decision based on her 'wants' as opposed to being forced back. Or maybe I'm just mind reading : )
Agree here too. Maybe I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I do get the feeling in talking with her that she does want to be with me, but right now feels like she's being forced. She's told me numerous times that she only wants to work on things if she feels it's the right decision. And right now, I think she feels that money, living arrangements, etc are forcing her hand. If she had her own place with full independence and the reality of D, she'd feel more confident in feeling that it's a decision based on her 'wants' as opposed to being forced back. Or maybe I'm just mind reading : )
It really could be one extreme or the other. It could be she really is conflicted and is considering trying to work things out, or she could be playing you and using the carrot of working things out to get you to help her afford a new place. No way of knowing that from what you have told us. However, take last night for what it was. A nice time with your W, you had a lengthly talk which was positive, and a brief talk about your M which answered some questions, and left some unanswered.
I would chalk last night up as a positive simply because you two had a nice night out, and from what you said it seems she had a good time catching up with you. That positive will go farther than anything you said in your M talk.
And yea, you HAVE to be sure OM is out of the picture before you start dating. If she is SERIOUS about working on the M and wants to start dating, she will be willing to answer questions about OM. I agree with sandi that she is not at that point, otherwise she would have given you more straight and enthusiastic answers about dating a few times over the next couple of months.
Keep your chin up. You had a good night.
Me: 42 W: 32 Married 7 years together 8.5 S1: 7 S2:7 Bomb #1: 09-16-13 Recon #1: 11/13 A discovered 04-03-2014 W filed D 05-19-14 but never served me I filed D 12-02-2014 S 05-31-14 Divorced 5-19-16
I would chalk last night up as a positive simply because you two had a nice night out, and from what you said it seems she had a good time catching up with you. That positive will go farther than anything you said in your M talk.
Thanks Pilot, that's how I was looking at it too. There was plenty of smiling and laughing, so I'm hoping that carries over and she feels like we can spend time together without getting into a R talk. It was more like catching up with a friend than trying to win her back. Up until this point, the majority of our conversation has been reactionary and through text or email, so it was nice to finally sit down and just enjoy each other's company.
That's good to just be able to enjoy company. Try to keep that in your head moving forward. I see a lot if the same struggles I am having in my stich in yours. All the R talk, and getting pulled in. I have really been trying to focus on validating lately, trying to put all my thoughts and fears aside. I really like all the be a real man talk on here to. I think I need to step that up and think about that, and what it means for me. Take all that advice and our it to heart, looks like it could loosen the W a little at least, bad or good, but at least you can get somewhere. And remember the baby steps, might not seem like much, but to her it could be like crawling up a mountain to get there.
Sandi has some good insights. I would add that you are not W's plan B or her gay boyfriend. Reading Ox's thread just depresses me as he's really acting like his wife's gay best friend. Not good. I hope you have read up a bit on Dev's thread to get some pointers on how to handle the OM in the picture.
You need to be the strong man here. Waffling back and forth isn't going to cut it for W since it isn't an attractive quality in a man.
Wonka, I've been following both their threads- quite a difference in how they handle, huh?!
Spent this morning re-reading Dev's threads. Has me all pumped up to send WAW an email saying no friends til OM contact is over. Of course I told her that back in March and then after a few mos, I've backed down Wish I could change some things, but what's done is done and I can only go forward from here.
I know I just posted the other day that I was done, but our interaction the other night gives me hope that there's still something there. I feel pretty confident in an internal timeline of approx 2-3 more mos before initiating D. That will mean I've given 1 yr of working on myself and giving W the space she asked for. That gives her about a month's worth of having what I expect to be limited time with the kids due to her new work schedule and school starting. Now if I feel that I'm seeing some positive progress, I'm willing to extend that internal deadline. That will be the tricky part. So my question is how do I handle these next couple mos?- possibly the last couple mos of DB.
After the other night's meeting with W, in which we laughed, had positive conversation, seemed to enjoy each other's company and I got 'some' sense that she's willing to hang out more to see if we could build a new R (even though she wouldn't come out and say yes or no), I see 2 options. Keep in mind I don't know the current situation of OM. I know they are still friends (which she claims), but don't know if there is more than that right now.
Option 1- Now that we've had a positive interaction, try to keep them going by asking W out more often. My plan would be to give her another week or two to see if she initiates contact before I would ask again. This option is in line with what my IC recommended- allows W to see some of my changes and increased positive interaction. Also allows me to evaluate whether W has made changes. She's not the only one with a decision to make. At some point we would need to address OM contact, as I'm not sure how I feel about dating her while they are in contact.
Options 2- Communicate to W that I know her and OM are still in contact (proven by recent cell records) and that I will not be her gay best friend. Move W off of cell plan/insurance and deposit 100% of my pay into my separate account (I know- should have done mos ago). I do worry that this option would come across to W as out of the blue, especially since we just got together the other night. But this seems to be the more popular recommendation I see in similar situations and in line with previous advice I've received.
Found out the apartment W is staying with her girlfriend does not allow dogs. W had been taking 1 of our 3 dogs with her when she takes the kids for the weekend. She loves her animals as much as she loves the kids, so that's got to hurt. Things are really starting to add up for her, so will be interesting to see if our sitch starts to change in any way.
Can you please give us a bit info on what's going on with W and the OM from your intel? Try to detail as much as you can here. This way we all can support you on the best path forward.
Wish I could change some things, but what's done is done and I can only go forward from here.