She says she's conflicted (part 2)

[Oxford1]

I keep thinking this will be because of one of these reasons:

A) needs time alone to think
B) feels that since she's not alone with OM it's only fair to do this at home
C) feels like she's cheating on OM

And the one I keep playing with in my mind is

D)has gone to bed with OM

or NONE OF THE ABOVE

This is total mind reading and wasting your valuable time,
focusing way too much on her and OM.

WHY?

What do you think you are accomplishing?

You are right Cadet. I guess I still can't believe that my WAW would fall for someone that even her therapists, my therapist and the Marriage counselor believe is such a looser.

When I compare who I am to him it's shocking.

[figgeroni]

instead of writing a script that you think she is following and attributing an agenda to her....

How about just validating...
like...
I understand wanting alone time
and then
walking away and really not thinking any more about it...


This is HER
not you

it doesn't matter why she wants to sleep alone
she wants to

that is a valid thing

give it validity and stop assigning motives

[Oxford1]

"I thought part if the DB strategy was not to throw her out or move out of the home."

if i remember correctly, this was a legal issue - if you move out you could be giving up legal ownership of the house. if you throw her out it could be used against you as if you're abusive.

We are joint owners on the mortgage according to her lawyer and mine neither of us can force the other out.

I do have a restraint order that prevents OM from coming within 500 feet of our house. I said he was a danger to s16.

[MrBond]

"I said he was a danger to s16."

How so?

Personally, I don't know how much the IC is good at helping you control your anger and control issues. You still have them show up here alot.

[Oxford1]

"I said he was a danger to s16."

How so?

Personally, I don't know how much the IC is good at helping you control your anger and control issues. You still have them show up here alot.

He told my wife that my S21 was a punk because he wrote a letter to the OM.

When WAW told OM that she would not leave until S16 was out of high school he told my wife that she should leave my S16 or he would talk to my son and convince him he was a better man then me.

Would you let a guy like this near your kids?

[Oxford1]

"I said he was a danger to s16."

How so?

Personally, I don't know how much the IC is good at helping you control your anger and control issues. You still have them show up here alot.

I don't think I am that controlling. How should I act while my wife is with this OM?

Also anger, I am not as angry as I am sad.

It's kind of like a good friend of mine

He was pinned under a beam at the twin towers on 911. He is now a retired NYC police officer.

He was at his psychiatrist lately a woman of Non-Israeli Mid Eastern Descent.

She said to him you seem very angry especially at people who look like me...

His answer:

DO YOU THINK?

[MrBond]

"Would you let a guy like this near your kids?"

No but it doesn't prove that he was a danger to them. You were, again, thinking that he was trying to influence them the way he did with your W and was trying to exert control. If he was an @$$, your kids should be smart enough to figure that out. It's not like your kids are that young.

[25yearsmlc]

"I said he was a danger to s16."

How so?

Personally, I don't know how much the IC is good at helping you control your anger and control issues. You still have them show up here alot.

He told my wife that my S21 was a punk because he wrote a letter to the OM.

When WAW told OM that she would not leave until S16 was out of high school he told my wife that she should leave my S16 or he would talk to my son and convince him he was a better man then me.

Would you let a guy like this near your kids?

You missed the point of Bond's post to you. We are asking about your control and anger issues and how you are managing them.

B/C you don't seem to be. And your answer was another attack on OM.

Frankly, I think convincing your son that he's a better man than you, makes more sense to me than a restraining order. Seems to me he wants his reality to be seen as the truth, and to him, it is.

I don't see him as a danger to your son, although I can imagine he irritates the heck out of you.

But I see this as more about control issues of yours.

So, what are you doing, specifically, to handle yourself better and to gain better control over yourself, which means in part, letting go of trying to control others?

[Oxford1]

I have decided to not argue with the wife anymore.

I am not trying to influence her decisions anymore.

Also trying to focus on me.

I do realize via the MC that when I set a boundary and don't follow through it's a lie or at worst it's control.

If I set a boundary I have to stick to it.

I am also really trying to not ask controlling questions or make demands.

[25yearsmlc]

I have decided to not argue with the wife anymore.


I sure hope you stick to this^^. Arguing with someone about their emotions, does not work. It's not persuasive, although leading by example CAN be.

Still no guarantees. But when you think you are getting somewhere with an argument, it usually means the other person is temporarily caving in, to end the discussion. It's a temporary result of them feeling bullied, and the damage done by the argument itself is often more 'Expensive" than the point being argued is worth. Make sense?

In other words, It's not a productive use of your time, and it hurts your cause.


I am not trying to influence her decisions anymore.
\

Good. It comes off as pressure from you, big time. Which backfires on you.

And Besides you can't really influence someone else with words. All you can influence is how they perceive you, which you "influence" w/your behavior and actions. And even then, it may not succeed and at those times, you have to let go. Furthermore, it takes up enormous amounts of energy to try and influence someone else and that energy ought to be spent on changing yourself.

Also trying to focus on me.

That ^^ is Absolutely the best course of action. So when you get the urge to criticize your wife or OM, or to attack them, or to manipulate an outcome or maneuver an event, or "announce to others", or plan out something involving others, STOP and get the mirror out and work on the only person you can & should work on, YOU.

Get back to YOU.

I do realize via the MC that when I set a boundary and don't follow through it's a lie or at worst it's control.


Setting a boundary - on others - is ALWAYS about control. An actual "boundary" like we mean, is something you impose on yourself, not on others.

If you were to say, "MY boundary is that YOU must speak to me in a calm whisper and polite manner" that is NOT a "boundary".

That's just you making a demand, dictating to someone how they must speak to you. it's you trying to control how they speak to you.

A healthy way to express what I think you'd mean in that^^ scenario, would be something like "I need to be spoken to with courtesy, and I will do likewise". and then when someone raises their voice or behaves inappropriately, you may warn them once (or not) but then YOU leave.

You don't tell them to leave or to change; you just announce what YOU will do, and then you do it. See the difference?


If I set a boundary I have to stick to it.


Yes In the event of an actual boundary being crossed, you must follow thru...but make sure it's an actual boundary on you, and not a demand of others.

***AND NOTE*****you can change your mind, as long as you have a real reason to change it (like you are calmer now, & you reflected on it some more, or you got added information to change your opinion on something.

Or maybe you were simply wrong to have set that boundary in the first place...that's okay to admit. It may even be a great 180 for you)--

but if you are simply handing out ultimatums and then backing down b/c you don't want to enforce them, OR B/C you fear following thru, then you will be undermining your own goals.

& It probably means you are issuing too many ultimatums and calling them boundaries, which are just control vehicles you MUST stop using...

Don't issue an ultimatum to get a reaction, or to punish or "teach a lesson to" or to "show her the consequences of her choices" (it's not a spouse's job to do that)

and don't set a boundary if you are not SURE you are alright with following thru with the promised result.

(That is probably why MWD is so hesitant to suggest ultimatums & so careful about defining boundaries). Many of us issue ultimatums only to realize later that we did NOT want the result we created.

So, if you want to keep your word as valuable as it can be, don't waste it on ultimatums you are not prepared to fulfill.

Make sense?

I am also really trying to not ask controlling questions or make demands.

Great! Maybe you can rephrase your questions to know in advance how they'll sound b/c maybe you don't always know when you are being controlling, versus just curious or interested.

**(Sometimes it's not enough to know what "not to do", in times of stress or crisis. We have to replace bad behaviors with new, positive ones. You may need some new role models for help with this, b/c it's very easy to revert to old known ways, even bad habits, in times of crisis and painful stress. That is why these resources and new tools are so crucial to get--asap)**

MY DB coach said "Avoid any question that starts with 'How could you do/say that'?'

b/c it is really meant to put the other person on the defensive, so avoid those.

Same goes for questions with "WHY did you say/do 'X'?"

Again, the way those questions are phrased does tend to make the person hearing them, want to defend themselves. That's not productive for our cause. We want our spouse to problem solve WITH us, like we are on the same team.

So the blame game has to end. Same goes for the scorecards...lose those or lose the marriage. See, the ironic thing about scorecards is that the partner has their own!

I had a big one. My narrative was I had "Put h thru medical school, and gone to law school myself, carried & had our children and worked full time and for every night h was on call, I was a single parent..."

but in my h's eyes, , he "worked his butt off to earn a good enough salary and pay the bills and enable w to be a sham mom later on, and worked long hours and etc etc..."

so to HIM, he was ahead on the scorecard and I was behind. Never mind our arguments, those are just " facts" we saw differently.

Another example and then I'm done for now.

We were traveling in the Pacific NW recently and I was driving. There was a big car accident I had to maneuver around, and watch for traffic as well as some wildlife on the road. A lot of people were making sudden stops. The seat I was in was uncomfortable, and the steering wheel was a bit high for me, so my back was getting very sore.

On the other hand, my h and kids saw beautiful scenery and wildlife, and reclined to get a better view of the mountain tops. They were taking stunning photos of the gorgeous vistas all around us.

We were on the same drive, but our experiences were very different.

Do you see how neither of us was "right" or "wrong", but that we simply saw the same things, quite differently? We saw the same things but with different points of view.

Food for thought.