What has come up for me is the realization of how co-dependent I truly was within my relationship. Co-dependency mixed with his demand to control. Whatta match.
The reason I am posting about it is to help me visualize to see & to work through those feelings when they arise. I am happy that I persevered yesterday.
It is easy for many to judge. But this is a learning/growth spurt for me. The fact remains is that it is what it is.... due to the fact that I was soooooo controlled (unhealthy), it is a HUGE step for me to start noticing WHERE & HOW this happens. I was so afraid to do wrong by him fearing that he will get mad & the repercussion would be huge & to never get what I wanted from him (committment/house, etc). I stayed in line & did what I was told because I "believed" it was the way to get him... I was a puppet... so now, when I see it happening (the scared feelings are still there) but I am pushing past the fear & accepting his response regardless of the outcome. I have got to not care one way or the other if it makes him mad or not. ITs about how I FEEL! How the outcome affects me. <<<< This is new to me & I struggle because I easily want to slip into old behaviours that accommodate him, hoping that he will still want me, somehow/someday. It is such a struggle & totally goes against myself because of what I ultimately want...HIM.
With that being said, I am learning to have self-value. Why on earth would I want someone who controls me???? I ultimately want someone who appreciates me. For this to happen, I MUST APPRECIATE ME FIRST!.... this is happening. This started happening when he offered "companionship" instead of reconciliation. I decided I wanted more... but, didn't know how to show that. In the last few weeks, I have learned to say NO, and to stand behind it. "NO" will be what saves me.
I know that this current relationship is not healthy for me... infact, its toxic. Therefore, I am staying out of his way & pushing him out of mine...its just better until I am healthier & /or he has changed.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
It was hard & I wasn't completely sure why she was insistent
Because it is self-degrading! Your D can see it and wants you to show more dignity and pride.
Remember me telling you about my mom? Well, my sister was very much like you. Her first H abused her and she would flee for her life, come home and then slip around begging him to take her back. Her second H was worse. Yet she kept choosing the same kind of men. Third H isn't physical abusive, but is verbal and mentally abusive. No matter how hard we try to get her to respect herself and stop putting up with his cr@p treatment, she won't walk away. Instead, she tries to believe her own lies.......and sell them to her family. None of us are buying b/c we can "see" the truth for ourselves. (And FWIW, the only time she gets any form of affection is the few moments when he has sex with her. Afterwards, it's right back to cr@p. Sex is not love.). She caters to him, builds up his ego, walks on egg shells, and works like a dog holding down several jobs. Not him. He's just fine with himself and never changes a thing. But why should he?
Your D can see what you are doing. She knows that a woman should not degrade herself by pursuing a man who treats her like you've been treated. You believe your own lies and excuses about him......and try to see them to us, but we aren't buying it. Your D gets it. You, I'm not sure. I think you feel it's "just so hard" and you choose to allow your emotions and old behavior patterns to dictate your actions. Sometimes we have to apply will power when the emotions are screaming in protest.
I suppose I was always the extreme opposite. Had too much pride about things like that. Before my H, I had been in love with another young man. But when I discovered he might not feel completely the same.....or have the same goal in mind, I shut the door on him and a future with him. No discussion or anything telling him what I was doing, or why, or the messages I wanted "him" to get by what I did. Sure, I was heartbroken and thought I might actually die. But I had enough spunk, pride, dignity, whatever you want to call it....to distant myself from his life and go about living my own. I pined for him silently for a period, but willed myself to stop it. So I KNOW it can be done if you want it badly enough.
(Your problem is you are still hoping things will change and you will have a future together. So, you continue to pine for him.)
So you see, my sister and I had the same role model in our mother, but we are very different in how we view R's with men. It appears you and your D may differ also. Your D seems to have strength you are lacking. My sister has told me she's weaker than me. But I don't ever see her "trying" to be stronger. I think your D wants to see her mother changing unhealthy, pathetic, and degrading actions.....and see a strong, confident, self-empowering woman bloom before her very eyes.
Take control of your life, Magic. The only reason you give over to these weak moments is b/c you want to. Let go of him! This is not a healthy way to live your life.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
...and I have!! I have let go... my outside actions are first, I am still working through my inside emotions/feelings... just because I want to let them go, it doesn't just "happen". I think recognition is first. I feel good about seeing things now. Recognizing when its happening & then "choosing" to do the opposite of what I would normally do.
Simply "willing" myself is not as easy for me Sandi. This is because of the control & what it did in my head. I first need to recognize it, as it is occurring. Step back from it & detach emotionally from it. Here is where I notice 2 sides (pleasing him vs. doing what I want)... then facing the reprimand of either choice. Then force myself away from the addicting urges (like cigarettes), distract myself, etc... believe me, if I could just "will" it away i would.... its sounds so much easier. Don't forget I FEARED his response. I was constantly weighing out what would be worse & is it just easier to cave into his request & hope that I get my reward??? I am working on re-training this thought process.... my friends & family (DD included) have noticed my efforts.
I am not trying to sell anything to the posters... my xbf has gotten worse with his selfishness since MLC. He is not at all as bad as how you present your sister's husband.(s)... at all... However, NO amount of abuse is good/healthy & no longer good enough for me. NO excuses!
My DD loves her step dad. She would love for us to reconcile... but she wants us both to grow. Self confidence/value for me & for him to appreciate & not control. "IF" this could happen, I would want it...badly. If not, I am still going to mourn what was & move on... at my pace. I am no longer waiting. I have truly begun to let go & continue to do so, each day. I don't like it, but its healthier for me. I want to be in a healthy lifestyle. I want my DD to be proud that I stood up for myself & no longer accept his crap. She has been noticing in bits & pieces... yesterday she was awesome.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
I hope you are right. From what you post, it does seem you have made some outward improvements, but then I don't know what all has been unsaid.......and that's okay. This is your thread, to say or not say whatever you may choose. My objective here is to help, not to tear you down.
I suppose it is difficult for me to know first hand what it is like to live with a person who manipulates and controls. I worked within about six ft. with a person like that for over fifteen yrs. But I didn't have to live with it. I had a very controlling MIL for about forty years that affected everyone in my family, especially my H.
You speak of fearing his reprimand, what does he do to you? Get angry, belittle, punish, threaten, yell, get physical? B/c you don't have to stand there and take it as if you are his child. Yes, my sister's H uses all those methods to control her. So, your xbf is just as bad as hers. But just as I've told her, it is your choice to stay in it.
Even though you are no longer sharing his home, you are still living with his behavior every day. You keep expecting him to change. It isn't going to happen. He is selfish and you catered to his every selfish desire for twenty yrs. It worked pretty good for him.
He continues to control you. Mind control. Once he has control over your mind, he really didn't have to "do" anything else. You do it to yourself.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I feel I am right.... I have made several outward improvements, including today. Today, he had a meeting with the lawyer of the seller. It left him with many things in his head. He came to me trying to unload in the midst of client appointments. I couldn't really give him proper attn. Then when we were in a vehicle together, he started to ask me my opinion. What do I think? What would I pay? Would I offer no conditions? cash? etc?? I just changed the subject about work again. I feel that if I am not officially involved in his deal, then its none of my concern. We are not "friends". We are business partners. He is so used to me being full of 1000 questions & interrogation...that he is now coming forward volunteering info & even asking for my input.
Like I said, I am not "his" for his convenience. Therefore, he does NOT get to have me on his terms.....<<<<< self value right there!!
Honestly Sandi, I am posting all there is... I am not hiding anything of course because I want the best amount of advice based on full truth.
I speak fearing his reprimand...but am working on this as each situation arises. He would only ever be angry and punish by no time spent, dinner/dates, vacations, etc. Nothing ever physical. I would fear reprimand of never getting commitment/marriage/house, etc. <<< this was my motivation.
A long time ago, Bond suggested for me to stand up for myself when we would argue. That was months ago. I was super scared, but saw when I did...he began to respect me..... We do not argue at all anymore. I do not take that anymore. I am learning about other things not to take from him too. It is MY choice not to accept.
Yes, catering to him for 20 years was a GREAT deal for him!! Not for me... I see that now.
You state that he continues to control me.... why do you suggest this? I am being very careful to not allow this control over my mind anymore. I am doing things regardless if it upsets/pisses him off or not... I just don't care...RIGHT? Its still a new behaviour that I am learning & will struggle with until it becomes natural.
I am DETERMINED to change ME!
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
I don't understand. Does his decision about the new property affect your part of this business? I think it is progress not questioning him like you use to do. But I'm just curious why you didn't say something like, "Why are you asking for my opinion now?". I don"t know if it's the right move, but I would have had a difficult time just ignoring that fact and changing the subject. Are you afraid to take him on?
Were you seeing him asking for your opinion as "having you at his convenience"? I don't get it.
Quote:
I would fear reprimand of never getting commitment/marriage/house, etc. <<< this was my motivation
.
Okay, but you still fear his reprimand. What I am asking is what can he do to you now?
Quote:
You state that he continues to control me.... why do you suggest this? I
B/c you fear him. You won't stand up for yourself. And b/c you analyze everything he does or doesn't do. You act like a compulsive or obsessive person with runaway thoughts. But the reason I called it mind control is b/c it is all going on within your mind. Maybe he started that process by his treatment of you, but it's still working. You have to end it.
But the really unhealthy part of all this is that you admit to these fears and his bad behavior........yet still want him! I think you are fantasizing of him treating you differently in a new R. It's just a dream. He has done nothing to give you hope, or to imply things will ever be different.
You remind me of women who are kidnapped and begin to believe they are in love with the criminal. I say it with concern, not as a critisim. I am worried about your mental health, honestly. You are in this unhealthy "relationship" that controls you b/c you let it.
You see you need to value yourself. But you don't how. Sometimes when you point out some action that is proving your self value, it seems completely out of context. For example, when you said he could not have you at his convenience. And since you were talking about him wanting your opinion on the property, I assume that was your point of feference. But changing the subject........instead of standing up for yourself and taking on how he completely disregarded your opinion when he started this whole thing was not showing your self value! Ignoring it and changing the subject was the actions of a victim. You chose a cowardly escape rather than call him out. Why? You had a legitimate reason and the opportunity. Only you can choose to continue portraying the actions of a victim. And only you can stop it. But I promise, you will really feel your value when you do decide enough is enough and end this craziness.
Tell me, what's the very worst he could do to punish and hurt you? I want to hear you say it. What is it that is more important than your self value? B/c you make it more important by not standing up for yourself.......and having a face off with him.
Until then, you will deceive yourself into thinking you love him.....and he loves you...and making excuses for him....and continue to obsess over him. Life is too short to live in an unhealthy stitch such as this.
You are doing better, but I want you to see you reclaim your power. You have it, you know. Believe in it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, I can see your point in asking "why would he ask me that, now"? However, it was major progress for me to not be asking & interrogating throughout his real estate dealing. It also didn't occur to me what I should have said at the time anyway....so, better to say nothing at all. I bite my tongue<<< That is new for me.
Please see this as a victory & not coward avoidance.
I am not afraid to take him on... I have done plenty of that in our relationship & that was what he said was our ending (because we were fighting too much). I am not interested in fighting with him any more. Bond, taught me a tool which I prefer & that is to sometimes say nothing. The less I say the better...keep 'em guessing.
It did occur to me.... much later, wishing that I had said "no, I don't have an opinion as I haven't really paid much attention" OR "my opinion is much different to what you are doing"... or something along that effect.
But really, it doesn't matter. I am not being a coward by not saying something... I am not afraid of him that way.
I am working through my fears of reprimand. You ask what can he do to me now? What is the worst he could do to punish/hurt me?... Nothing! I was letting Reconcilliation be my motivation/fear... however, since "I" took it off the table 3 weeks ago ... I am no longer allowing that to guide my actions/words/thoughts.
What I have come to realize & admit is that my fear has been about reconciliation. It was preventing me from doing/speaking/acting/etc... in any way that may harm the chances for reconciliation. In the last 3 weeks I have since realized that this is NOT the way to be. To break the cycle of his control/my fear, I must push through regardless of the outcome to reclaim my self worth. This is what I have been working on. Its a struggle, but I review each situation as an opportunity & do what I think is right & live with the outcome. (regardless of R or NOT).
For example, this morning he called 2x looking for a response from me regarding a work matter. He expected I would provide him with it last night. I didn't give it to him last night.. I figured it could wait until today. When he called this morning, I said I was back in bed resting & asked if it was needed right this minute?... he said no, & to tell him when I got up. <<<<< This is new, I ignored his first call, on 2nd call contemplated jumping out of bed to get what he wanted. I also feared telling him I was sleeping. However, I wish I had said... when I get up, I will check (on my schedule). Still learning.
When you suggest the unhealthy part... you are assuming that I want THIS kind of relationship still. I do not. I have realized weeks ago (& more and more each day) that it is unhealthy & I want & deserve WAY better. Yes, I still want him... but under different circumstances. Much like how my daughter wants us to reconcile too... but only if BOTH of us can change. I am working on me... He is NOT working on him. For now, it is a dream. I do fantasize of him treating me differently... and until he does, its just a dream. Meanwhile, I am doing all the growth & change. He will need to catch up.
A woman who is giving/making excuses to be with her physically abusive husband... I can see what is unhealthy. I am NOT that woman! I have NEVER been in an physically abusive relationship (would never even consider it!).... I will not be in any unhealthy relationships. Which is why I am pulling myself away from him & his life. I see it is unhealthy for me. I cannot be around it. Which is why I have not been indulging in his real estate stuff. I just want to back away.
Minor: even yesterday, he was anxious to get back to work & bring in our usual "coffee". viewed as his "coffee & connection time" (I previously saw it as a path for reconciliation). I declined. First, because I really didn't want a coffee (usually have one anyway, if he offers fearing to say no) and second, because I am not interested in his "connection" time. I just want to work & get out!
I really want to get through the other side of this... I do intend on learning this lesson and it being life altering !! I am not putting myself through all this pain for nothing! It will be a waste if I do not come out a better/healthier person! I am becoming my own cheerleader!
A few years ago a friend commented to me "I am not HIS to create into what he wants. I am "this way". Love me for me, or don't. <<<<< this is now finally making A LOT more sense.
I am not "HIS" ... companion/friend/sex toy/confidant, etc. He cannot just pick & chose the parts he wants to "borrow/use" on his terms/ his convenience. He removed all those benefits & more when he chose not to be in a relationship with me. Therefore, I will not give them to him. I am an all or nothing package deal.
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
A few years ago a friend commented to me "I am not HIS to create into what he wants. I am "this way". Love me for me, or don't. <<<<< this is now finally making A LOT more sense.
I am not "HIS" ... companion/friend/sex toy/confidant, etc. He cannot just pick & chose the parts he wants to "borrow/use" on his terms/ his convenience. He removed all those benefits & more when he chose not to be in a relationship with me. Therefore, I will not give them to him. I am an all or nothing package deal. [/quote]
Amen !! I am with you on this.. We were perfect in their eyes for years.. They know us inside and out.. They want change but not in us.. That is what they don' t see.. I have flaws but I also have a Huge heart like everybody else.. Our foundation was solid. His unhappiness wasn' t in us as he think it was. He is looking for what is missing in his life and can' t find it. He is creating an even bigger emptiness in his heart. His problem is not with us, nor work, nor other women, nor the neighbours.... It is in his mind, heart and soul...
Hey Gabby.... I like the way you asked that... putting it to me as my partner Joe:
If I was running a business with Joe, and HE "expected" after hours I may or may not respond.... depended on priority. What he was wanting was NOT priority. In fact, I surprised myself and completely forgot. If Joe called on Saturday morning looking for info and I missed his call, he could then text & I would respond when I get to it. Again, this is not priority. If Joe called a second time, I would answer the phone & tell Joe I was sleeping & would deal with it when I got up ... unless it was pressing for HIM.
How would you be a partner to Joe?
Last night ~ I went out for dinner with a girl friend & my daughter.... I AM SHOCKED!! I unintentionally left my phone in the car the entire time. I didn't realize it wasn't attached to me until after dinner. I did not race out to get it either... then when back in the car, I didn't jump to find it either (forgot again)... NOW THIS IS 180!!! this coming from a person who sleeps with the phone on her bed incase of Xbf or business calls. <<< this is major progress!!
M:46 H:49 T:20yrs myD:22 H distant summer/12 H sleeping in b'ment: Nov/12 BD: Dec 2/12 asked me begin to move end of Jan/13 moved Jan 7/13 (left my stuff) "agreed" to "working on r" Mar 3/13(lipservice!)
