Hurt and Confused 2

[oad]

Here is where im confused, sandi mentioned to be indifferent for now, not always be available...so since I was always available she would eventually get cold again, then I would pull back and she would then open up to me, it really confused me. 25 I know I sound like a whinner to you but infront of my wife I show no signs of it, when I would leave I would excuse myself and wish her a good night. on a positive note we haven't faught in a while. I know that a friend from work wants to rent her townhome to my W, yes it will save her money and im for renting out the house, IT HURTS LIKE HELL but ill do it. Another thing when she mentioned it to me I think I forgot to say that my response was calmly saying "I know this is hard on you but together we will get throug h it." I then told her godnight and left. I just feel hopless sometimes because she filed and is moving out on her own, I feel sometimes like maybe she really is done with the marriage. I know im being negative but im sure back when you where in my shoes you must have felt the same, how long did your sitch last? did you ever get divorced?

[oad]

also she wants us to get together Saturday to start splitting everything, should I be there or tell her to get her stuff and ill get mine while she is at work?

[Paz2014]

Whoa, this is a tough one Oad.

I suppose one might consider what their goal is prior to making a decision. So...what's your goal here? I see a possible 180 or an "as if" coming into play. How would she expect you to behave? Or rather, how would you normally behave?

Yeah, it $ucks that she's being cooperative to get only what she wants and not to give you what you want but there is cooperation. So, this may be an opportune time for you to show her what a stand up guy you really are. It'll be hard to remove or put aside your emotions for the mean time but this meeting may just be calling for it. Unless there's valid reason for you not to be there (like if this would be a 180) then show up and be friendly. Act as if this step is getting you closer to your goal. Her moving out and being on her and discovering what life will be like without you + the girls under one roof could be the catalyst that will drive her back into your arms.

I've learned that for some people they absolutely have to go through the path of not least but most resistance in order to figure out what they truly want. Let it play out and check the post from Starsky on going dark (if you haven't already) on my second thread. It gives great insight on why LBS need to pull back and give WAS their freedom.

Good luck!

[oad]

ok so me and my WAW split our bank accounts 3 months ago, I opened up my own. Normally we would order checks and they would last us about a year. I opened my own account and got checks under my name with my dads address. I just noticed that she reordered checks and changed the color and scheme of the checks but left both our names on it? Its her bank account now, why would she order new checks and keep my name on it, knowing that she will have them well after the divorce is finalized?? any thoughts??

[25yearsmlc]

Don't read into the new checks thing. IF Anything, it's slightly positive and I'd leave it at that. She may fear hurting your feelings OR she may not be ready to make it so official.

Drop it for now b/c whatever it means, IF anything, could change tomorrow anyhow.

Here is where im confused, sandi mentioned to be indifferent for now, not always be available...so since I was always available she would eventually get cold again, then I would pull back and she would then open up to me, it really confused me.

Be clear about what worked and what did not. If not clear, just stay as detached as possible, which I happen to NOT believe = indifference. But I'll post about that in a bit.

25 I know I sound like a whinner to you but infront of my wife I show no signs of it, when I would leave I would excuse myself and wish her a good night. on a positive note we haven't faught in a while. I know that a friend from work wants to rent her townhome to my W, yes it will save her money and im for renting out the house, IT HURTS LIKE HELL but ill do it. Another thing when she mentioned it to me I think I forgot to say that my response was calmly saying "I know this is hard on you but together we will get throug h it." I then told her godnight and left.

Sounds reasonable. Good job.

I just feel hopless sometimes because she filed and is moving out on her own, I feel sometimes like maybe she really is done with the marriage. I know im being negative but im sure back when you where in my shoes you must have felt the same, how long did your sitch last? did you ever get divorced?

Can you read my signature block below? The highlights are right there...


We were at this, pretty much separated for 2 years. We saw each other during that time, and he'd sometimes spend weekends here, but he also lived in Alaska for a year, alone.

In 2006 I gave our marriage a "10% chance of success" to my sisters.

So yes, I have felt pretty hopeless before. Also, 1/3 of divorces filed in this state are never completed. People do reconcile. And something like 15% of divorced couples end up remarrying their former spouses, so that happens too.

I began to accept that the m was likely over but that I would be happy anyhow...and THAT belief was new for me. THAT helped me GAL and that helped me Detach, and move on. And yet I was upbeat and warm to h. I think it was mostly sincere (eventually I KNOW it was sincere on my end) b/c I came to realize that h would be losing more than me. And even though I did not delight in that "victory" (there are no winners) I did feel sorry for him.

My mistakes were not the type of thing you leave a wife for, and h was, in reality, being a jerk to do what he did. I needed to do a lot of forgiveness work and in time, I did it. And it freed me. I became calmer, more content inside, and more optimistic about MY future and my children's. I no longer wracked my brain trying to understand H or convince him or change him, etc. I let him go...I released him to his "mission".

And perhaps that got my h's attention. I don't know for sure.

I DO know that when the kids and I were overseas in Italy, on a great trip I planned, and h was not, it irked him that he could not reach us. And that we were there, having a great time. And he wasn't...

I promise you my goal was NOT to get a reaction from h, at all. I had zero expectations or even thoughts of him. I simply needed to do something for ME and my kids. It was so stimulating there, nothing reminded me of h, although at times I wished he was there for HIS sake, and we all thoroughly enjoyed our time there. We "proved" something but I can't explain exactly what that was, but it mattered.

Best money I ever begged & borrowed...and spent. It opened my eyes to the reality that I COULD be happy without him there, and so could the kids. We were still a family, and like other military families, sometimes a parent is missing and yet, happiness still happens.

Also we went to Retrovaille and that's an excellent marriage retreat. It's For marriages in crisis. I know it could be hard to get her there ("to help with the kids and for us to better co-parent"???) but if you can, do so. It won't hurt and it just might do a wonderful thing for you.

We got a lot out of it. Years ago we also attended a personal growth workshop called "Essential Experience" In Philadelphia. (aka "EE") and that was profoundly life changing. And you can go without your w and yes, she will notice a change in you. Other DBers have gone so you can ask them, (PowerOfNow, AutumnLeaves, StubbornDyke, and more).

**(I've been to other workshops and they are not all alike. But if you can't get to Philly for EE, (please try!) then maybe see if a "Lifespring" weekend is around you somewhere. I can't vouch for them personally, but I've heard from other EE folks that it's a decent program.)**

ANYWAY

having a blast with your remaining family/friends, being happy on your own, well that ^^ gives the WAS something to miss, which I suggest you do.

[oad]

25 yrs, you have been quite the eye opener!!! the reason I posted about checks is that her mom and dad keep telling me that for now its over...focus on you and in 6 months or a year when you both have separate lives you can ask her on a date, little hints I get like her wanting to keep our names on both cars and mortgage, and her telling me that for right now this is what she wants..so I should see this as positive little things. Focus on me and my girls and move forward with my career and goals. I feel ive been in a coma for the last 6 months and now its time to wake up, drop the emotional rope for now and LIVE LIVE LIVE..im off to take my test and pass it!!! first step in the new me!!! also I will go on Saturday to split everything up, will be positive and upbeat (as hard as it may be..man up!!). She would expect me to not go, so a little 180 is in order for me.

[sandi2]

Here is where im confused, sandi mentioned to be indifferent for now, not always be available...so since I was always available she would eventually get cold again, then I would pull back and she would then open up to me, it really confused me.

Are you saying the advice confuses you or your W's actions confuse you? B/c I think you were told (but not positive) to expect this. She will not show consistent behavior with you b/c she is going through her own stuff that confuses her.

For the record, 25yrs and I have always been pretty much on the same page. There is definitely a different approach or viewpoint in the style we address the poster. Mainly, 25yrs is much more compassionate toward the WAW than I am. She gives the WAW the benefit of doubt, where I give .......none. And I am hard on wayward wives b/c I was one and I know how closed her heart is toward her LBH..........especially if there is a third party somewhere. JMHo, I believe a "wayward" wife is..........worse (?) than other WAW's. Maybe "worse" is not a good choice of words, but I hope you'll understand what I'm trying to say here. She is more complicated. She makes it harder for the LBH.

And speaking of not good choices of words, when I used the "indifference" explanation, I was trying to paint a picture of what she should see in you....at this time. But not in a cold, punitive, selfish, jerk style. And i said that when I posted it. Nice, polite, but not chummy best friends. B/c I do believe a wayward needs to experience some degree of loss due to her decisions. This is my opinion (and I believe MWD made a similar statement in DR). Everybody may not agree. I may appear to project my own personal experience into it. I try to draw from my experience and help the unsuspecting LBH.

I respect 25yrs very much! And as I said, we agree on most things, but she gives a lot of positive credit to the WAW, and I see the bad part of the WAW. I am a lot harder on the WAW's and my advice is usually more harsh. I do believe the LBH has to find a balance in everything. We can't tell every move to make. We can't explain every little detail. But I do see a lot of LBH'S misinterpret advice, and that's understandable. I am not backing away from what I posted, but I sure didn't mean to cause confusion for you. Different people on the board is going to have different viewpoints. We all draw it from what we read, study, experience, observe, etc. Maybe 25yrs is correct in men being so black & white in their thinking. I have seen this in other male newcomers. And I know I am bad at assuming people know what I mean, but they don't always.

What I have advised, is to do within a span of time (hopefully, until she comes out of the waywardness). Understand that once she begins to come out of the waywardness, and you see her warming in her attitude, you would adjust your approach (not the respect issue, etc. but giving less the indifferent/uninterested response). IMHO the WAW has such little respect for the LBH and so turned off to him, that he has to pull completely back till she believes she's lost him. Again, everyone may not agree, it is my opinion. But guys, obviously in order to reconcile you would need to adjust your response at some point. Not compromise your values, or anything like that. Certainly not go back to how it was before the bomb!

I can get back to this later b/c I have a sick mother that demands my attention. I hope I have not confused you more! I was trying to tell you how to respond with your WW at this time. What I believed she should see in you. Why is that so confusing??

[oad]

Sandi its not confusing, I appreciate your advice because it comes from my wifes point of view...even though there is no evidence as of yet for O/M. Like I told 25 years, whenever she is warm and I warm back she then pulls away...I see it that she is not ready if ever to warm up and continue. I hope you are not offended by my confusion. im still following your advice with a little bit of 25 years. I think there is a time for your advice and a time for 25's. Im trying to find a middle ground. What I do know for sure is that in the past your advice was dead on...many blessings and prayers that your mom recovers!!! and thank you for your help during this time, im sure its hard to when your mom is ill.

[Mat]

Hi - I think for what it's worth, the advice you're getting is pretty consistent. Each person brings different nuances.

Something that helped me, is to journal for myself pretending that I am another person giving me advice (if that makes any sense). It's really a great way to synthesize what others are advising, in your own words, and uncover and resolve apparent contradictions.

I was really f"£$ confused for a while, and that helped me gain a bit of clarity. My odds of reconciling are still abysmal, but at least I feel like I'm doing the right thing!

[sandi2]

When I say the WW is worse, I mean it's like a different component is added. The WAW who is not in rebellion and trying to go through her second childhood, is tired and has given up on the M and is ready to end it. MWD's article on the WAW is excellent. That WAW is fed up and has lost all hope in her H and M. But I don't see the same sense of rebelliousness that is in a wayward wife. A wayward W can remind you of a teenager rebelling in her attitude, selfishness, dress, behavior, and actions. And there is no getting through to her.

If that describes your W, then you probably have a WW. If not, then you have the WAW Michele describes in her article. When I found myself in this state, it wasn't like I woke up one day and decided I would turn into a WW. It was a gradual process to a point, and then I went crazy and didn't even know who I was anymore. B/c the foundation of decades of disappointment and unfulfilled emotional needs was already there. We had faced crises after crises, and I went into a depression where I felt abandoned by my H. So I was vulnerable for an EA. I was vulnerable for most anything. When I entered that realm of compromising my standards or morals, I quickly lost a sense of reality. I took risks that were crazy, but at the time, I did not care. And as long as my H pursued, my resentment grew into detesting him. He disgusted me! Is that plain enough?

What confuses you, even though it's been discussed, is how a WW pulls in toward you if you back off and are not making her the center of your attention, but then if you respond all warm and fuzzy......she quickly turns cold & disinterested. I understand how that works b/c I was that woman! At this time, she does not want you, but when she sees you back off then she wants to check to make sure she stills has your love/feelings for her. So when you respond with obvious "warmth" that she knows you are still "there" for her, she pulls away b/c she doesn't want you. She just wanted to assure herself you were still there.

I have tried to tell LBH'S that they don't give enough time to that period of emotional withdrawal and treating her like an elderly nosey neighbor. Remember me saying that men mistake her being nice or friendly as a positive sign? If he gets of melty-man on her, she loses interest. Her intent was not to get you back into the MR. That is why I believe she has to be free to work on her issues while thinking she may have given up the man she really loved. She has to decide she wants him back. When she does, she will start being consistent in pursuing him, and becoming more like her old self. That is when the LBH will begin to slowly give her more attention and time.

If you stay away from her and truly work on yourself, she is going to see the difference. But if you aren't working to establish new behaviors, then you'll return to the old M. And as 25yrs said, that's the last thing your W ever wants to happen!

Everyone's stitch is different. There is no one size fits all with these solutions. If you look at my signature line, it says what I can summarize and do what works........not what you feel should work, but what you see works in your particular stitch.

You have to be consistent. You can't try one thing today to see her response, then try something different tomorrow to see how she reacts. You have to be steady and evaluate. If it's clearly getting worse, then you stop doing it. But most guys don't give it enough time b/c they are too impatient and want results yesterday.

Use common sense. For example, if you get a call saying there is an emergency, don't tell yourself, "Well I can't show her concern b/c I am being indifferent!" That's what I mean about being balanced. Make sense?