The morning sun is shining like a red rubber ball.

[wishing, hoping]

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2464045&page=1

Last post linked above.

"I should have known you'd bid me farewell, there's a lesson to be learned from this and I learned it very well. Now I know you're not the only starfish in the sea. If I never hear your name again it's all the same to me. And I think it's gonna be alright, yes the worst is over now, the morning sun is shining like a red, rubber ball."

I heard this song while driving in the car today. It fits where I'm at today. If you have a chance, google the lyrics. It is an awakening.

J is no different than he ever was. He has not grown one iota which is sad considering he is 46 years old. Pathetic. S told me this weekend was awful and OW is treating him like crap. Because she doesn't fool him and she knows it. I just tell him how sorry I am that he has to deal with it. It's out of my control. S told me what went this weekend and let's just say it's not the happy home they were hoping for. I don't know who they think they are fooling. Perhaps themselves but no one else.

Yes the dog not only peed on OW but he bit her too. Not fiercely, just nipped. He's a cattle dog. It's in his DNA. So as we all predicted, J asked me to take the dog again tonight. Now it's like we would "share" custody of the dog. Lol! I told him J, you are the one who said you were keeping the dog. He said well I was mad because that woman at the kennel screwed me over. Poor J. I said that's what you get for taking the dog to a doggie bed and breakfast! Lol! But yes, he asked me to help with the dog. He told me the reason is because his nephew is getting married in two weeks and none ifte hotels in the area take pets. Bull. I joked and told him to take the dog to his brother's house. He didn't laugh.

He is just laughable. Just ridiculous. I just wish my kids werent around that madness. It's not good for them. And she's a piece of work too.

WH

[beatrice]

I am sorry that your kids are around this. The good thing (although it might not seem like it) is that J wants them in his life. That is important. So many children are just cast aside by the MLCers, and that is hurtful too.

A smart dog, and you are handling it well. As for OW what can I say. It boils down to the simple truth - what kind of person sleeps with a married man? Even my crazy xh admits that I was right about OW1. Frankly you did not have to be a genius to see that one!

WH you have weathered the most awful period and your courage and grace are amazing. Your husband was a fool to leave you and an even bigger fool for not realising it!!

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks, Bea. It helps to have your commentary and input. You have certainly seen your share of madness.

I was thinking I should push the issue with the dog and tell J that my finances are still a bit tight and that it would be nice if he could help me out with the dog deposit since he does owe me $3000. I have to do this just right. I need to tread this carefully. I don't want to hear J sing the blues about money since S told me J dropped about $300 at Menards the other day. Whatever shall J do once the money tree stops blooming? Like I said, leopards do not change their spots.

I don't know if J doesn't realize OW is not the person he makes her out to be because he is convinced in his head she is wonderful (or just not me) or if he just doesn't care. I know it doesn't matter in the long run and it's not worth my energy but some things in this world just never cease to baffle me. I can tell myself (the little amount of time I am around OW) that her colors are starting to change now that she thinks she has "sealed the deal". I am going to continue to give it to the man upstairs and let Him handle it and sit back and watch the show and try to avoid audience participation.

WH

[beatrice]

and try to avoid audience participation.

Oh yes, if you can.

[wishing, hoping]

Easier said than done.

S told me tonight OW has invited herself to D's party this weekend. She's not invited. I am the one who has planned this party and did all the work. I don't need her interference. But then again if J and her are together now, I am guessing she will show up at all the kids' events now. And I guess I should just suck it up. After all if I eventually become involved with someone I will expect him to be able to attend events with me. I hate being the better person sometimes.

D told me she told daddy not to marry OW because she's afraid she will forget about mommy. J told her that would never ever happen. That made me want to cry. I told her she won't forget mommy because she is with mommy more than she's with daddy. She asked why and I said because I want to make sure you are safe. I asked her if she forgets about me when she's with daddy and she said sometimes. I asked her if she forgets about daddy when she's with me and she said yes. I said it's okay. Mommy is always your mommy and daddy is always your daddy. Even if mommy finds another man to marry daddy is daddy. And mommy and daddy are not going anywhere. It seemed to make her feel better.

S is really upset about OW. He said at first it was her kids and now it is her. I told him I didnt want him to stop telling me about what bothers him, but I wanted him to tell his dad how he feels because I can't do anything about it. Only his dad can. I hope he tells J how he feels.

J called and wants me to come over to his place on D's birthday for a celebration. He has her that night and he said he would get the cake and some balloons. So I'll be over there for about an hour or so. I had the celebration at my place for S's birthday so it's his turn. Friday am I picking up the kids and having them for the fourth for the first time in three years. I'm very excited.

In the meantime this landlord is ticking me off. He still hasn't installed my washer and dryer and the kids bathroom is a mess waiting for the installation. Plus the skylight in S's room is leaking. It's frustrating. Plus there is excessive moisture in my bathroom and the floor is wet and so are the walls. It is gross. I told him about the issues but nothing lights a fire under him. He still has not installed a mirror in the kids bathroom that he said he would install before I moved in.

Feeling rather frustrated right now.

WH

[BklynMom]

I totally get how it could make you sick to the stomach having to deal with other woman at a family event. It would make me want to puke.

On the positive side she will be the one that gets to deal with J then and hopefully he will leave you alone.

I know when my exH attends any of the kids events (the very few he does) - he glues himself to me, trying to be my friend and be helpful and its honestly getting super annoying. He is so strange sometimes I wish his girlfriend was there to deal with him.

Ask your landlord if it would be easier for him if you hired a handyman to do the small repairs and then he could reimburse you. I think that would motivate him.

Stay positive and strong. look how far you have come.

[AJM]

You handled the kids anxiety very well. In a cohesive family, they would go off and forget about their parents for a little while each day. Forget as in, not directly think about. That's normal. It's normal to do it in your kids situation as well, but they notice it more and have some anxiety about it. It was very good of you to reinforce your commitment to her verbally. I know, what else would mother do, right? Some don't, or just don't see it as important. I'm just pointing it out because there may be more times you'll want to be aware of.

Let's face it, animals and kids are usually a pretty good judge of people. I find it odd that your S hasn't bit her or peed on her shoes yet

Your ex strikes me as the type that wants to be in control and right so badly, he'll continue on with the OW even if he does see the signs. Who really knows what he gets out of it, but it may help him later to look back at that and laugh. Much much later

AJ

[wishing, hoping]

Let's face it, animals and kids are usually a pretty good judge of people. I find it odd that your S hasn't bit her or peed on her shoes yet

LOL! AJ I'll suggest it to S and see what he says. LOL!

[wishing, hoping]

I know when my exH attends any of the kids events (the very few he does) - he glues himself to me, trying to be my friend and be helpful and its honestly getting super annoying. He is so strange sometimes I wish his girlfriend was there to deal with him.

You are right, BK. Usually J is at my side like glue and is super nice and super helpful and super annoying. I think one of the reasons she is going to make an appearance is to make sure J keeps his distance from me. I think she is threatened by me and dare I say a bit jealous. Perhaps she doesn't trust J? And honestly, why would she? I sure wouldn't if I was her.

I think J is just out to get what he can get from her. I think he thinks daddy is going to leave OW a large inheritance and J wants in on it. It makes sense that J wanted my mom to move in with us so badly and when she finally told him to buzz off, he really didn't want anything to do with my family any longer. He stopped coming home with me on visits and really had nothing to say about her. Then he was insistent his mom move in with us, even though when I asked him questions about her care and her health he had no good answers. When I said it wasn't a good idea he closed me off and decided to look for another sugar momma. And his mom had no money anyway. I don't know what he was thinking. But with J, if he believes it to be true then it is true, even if it isn't. (Boy that was circular talk, wasn't it).

So he thinks daddy warbucks is going to leave OW a large chunk of money. Once that happens and J has put in his time and is sure he can get that money, he will leave OW high and dry. He won't have to pay her a dime, because they have no kids together and knowing how J spends money, she will have to carry on part of the debt they have together. I can read J like a book. I think I got off easy.

I hope karma works quickly. My popcorn is getting stale.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

So the washer and dryer are installed now. The landlord came by and thankfully the dryer worked. He had just forgotten he needed to flip a switch or something. I cleaned them off and other than a few scratches and dents they look brand new. The dryer is huge!! I am so excited. I haven't used it yet. I'm almost afraid to. I'll run a small load tomorrow when the kids are with J. That way if anything goes wrong they won't hear me rage.

He also checked the dehumidifier (which I forgot about completely). It was full of water. He thought he had it hooked up to empty automatically but he didn't. So now I need to check it every day to see if it needs emptied. I have been running the fans in the house too and that seems to help. It's been terribly humid around here lately. And lots of rain that doesn't help.

Kids back to J's tomorrow. I will never get used to this back and forth stuff. I am all set for D's party except I need to finish the cookies (gluten free), chocolate covered pretzels, watermelon stars and fruit kebobs. I am waiting for the last minute to make the food. I learned my lesson last year.

I hope the rain holds off. But then again, I can't control the weather. We will just make alternate plans.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Well the washer and dryer are working great! Nice to do laundry from home again. Also the dehumidifier is doing it's job. No more soggy bathroom. Man that was disgusting. I emptied it out twice already since the landlord fixed it last night. Yuk!

Now my stove is not working. Actually the stove works, the oven doesn't. When I set the time, it flashes and goes off. The broiler was working but it doesn't either. I think the heating element has gone out. The landlord just installed this before I moved in. Ugh! When it rains it pours. At least this isn't my appliance, but I need to bake for D's party. I was going to bake cookies for her camp tomorrow, but considering the circumstances I made no bakes. Not quite the same, but I think she will like them anyway.

Been feeling emotional today. Back to being angry. Trying to accept that J will just have OW be with the kids and will not let them be with me if he is not around. It ticks me off. I'm borrowing trouble because it really has not happened yet. It might not. But I'm tired and cranky and mad.

I've been working non-stop since I got home. I guess I just need a rest.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Well that was...interesting.

I just left J's house for the birthday thing for D. J had originally asked me to come by at 6:30. He called about 5:45 and said he wanted me to be aware that OW was going to be there. I was fine with it and hoped that meant she wouldn't be at the party I was having for D. From what J told me, OW seemed a bit put out by me being there. J said he told her I was D's mom and that I was going to be there. I said I'm not going anywhere and J said he told OW that. Noe I don't know if that's the truth, but that's the story anyhow.

I got there and the kids (and the dog) were thrilled to see me. J and OW were upstairs when I got there so I just hung with the kids. Then J came down and ow was not far behind. Ow did not look Pleased. We did cake and presents and I listened to OW make snippy snide comments to everyone who would listen. She was not very nice to J, but he made his bed.

So for D's birthday J got her a ceiling fan (princess style) and he's putting up a zip line (OW made sure to stress it was for ALL the kids). OW bought her a fancy curtain rod.

OW clung to J like white on rice. She was throwing daggers in my direction and had to know every little detail of what J and I were discussing about S's upcoming mission trip. I got a huge uneasy vibe from her. I can't take much of her. I went outside with the kids to get out of that house. It's absolutely toxic. Finally I had to leave. S and D didn't want me to go, but enough was enough and I left. I asked S's GF if she needed a ride home and S begged her to stay even though she was ready to leave too.

I am glad I am not the only one who sees the crazy. Ugh!

WH

[beatrice]

WH of course these crazy women are insecure and jealous as h*ll.

Make a fresh batch of popcorn if yours is stale. I am so sorry that your kids have to go through this. Strange that she expects to come to your home for the birthday but has issues in your seeing your daughter on her birthday in what was, after all, you home. What a piece of work.

And what a class act you are.

[LoisB]

And what a class act you are.

Ditto.

[Georgiabelle]

WH,

OW sounds like uh the picture of stability:-). You did a perfect job!

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks everyone.

I wish I could do more for my kids. It doesn't seem like enough. I couldn't handle being around that for an hour, let alone four days. I still don't know what J sees in this woman except for dollar signs. Even that would get old after a while I would think.

But I see the same patterns and "the dance" with her and J that existed when we were together. Nothing has changed with J. Except he has a "fresh start" with another woman. That no one seems to like.

She made some snippy comment to me. I was outside with kids while they were playing with the sidewalk chalk. D was drawing a chalk outline of S so he was laying on the sidewalk. I was tickling him and he was holding onto my hands so I couldn't tickle. He's very strong so I made a comment about how he was hurting his mommy and I think he should crack walnuts for a living. She made some comment about how I could never handle labor. Really? WTF? I had two children with your boyfriend OW. And I guarantee my children were twice the size of your rugrats. Keep your comments to yourself.

I didn't say that. She's not worthy of that much effort. She is far more deserving of the karma that is waiting for her.

WH

[LoisB]

And, you didn't need to zero in another woman's husband...or move into another family's house...or lend money to your beret-wearing boyfriend...or have the family dog pee on your leg...

[GoatGal]

OW made snippy comments to you?

Well, I see you handled that with perfect DBing dignity.
Good for you.

Let her embarrass herself. It's because she's insecure.
(And considering what she's gotten herself into, she should be!)

You have a great 4th, WH!

---GG

[wishing, hoping]

She makes snippy comments to everyone who is in earshot and can't get away from her. That woman has the warmth of cheesecloth.

I just do not see what the h*ll so dam great about her. I was picking up a huge red flag vibe around her. But I think J has her where he wants her. She thinks he has a prize. The booby prize.

I hope I do not have to be around that woman for a while. I have had enough thank you very much.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Picked up the kids and J is offering me leftover cake and food etc. I told him I was taking D to the dollar store to get balloons and he offered for me to take the ones he bought. I declined.

He asked if the kids and i were watching the fireworks tonight and I said yes. He made some mention of calling me later so he could sit by me and the kids. Really? I don't think so. I think my phone will go dead about that time.

I feel sometimes like I am living in a sitcom.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Busy weekend. Lots of fun with the kiddie! D was over the moon about her American Girl doll. She hasn't put it down. So glad I made the investment. It beats getting a curtain rod for your birthday.

Went to one fourth parade and two fireworks shows and got eaten alive by mosquitoes. But we had fun regardless.

D had her party today. It was very overcast but warm and the rain held off. Five little girls and three big ones. It was nice. J and OW showed up of course acting like the perfect couple. I shook off my disgust and was gracious and civil not because I wanted to because it was the right thing to do. J did his usual bit of doing enough to appear like he had something to do with the planning of the party when I did all the work. If I sound a little bitter it's because I am.

S told me J plans to get a Corvette Stingray when the kids are "out of the house". Just more evidence of his materialistic nature coming to light. J probably passed it off as making a joke, but I know the truth of the matter. Once the kids are 18 and his responsibility is done, he will go and have fun and be done. He will keep minimum maintenance on the kids just so he can get part of the glory until that time, but once college is in sights, J will be long gone.

D said she often thinks that daddy doesn't love her. I told her that her daddy does love her and if she needs reassurance then to get it from him. This makes me so sad. Such a sweet innocent little girl. I just want to cry.

Is it truly better for these kids to be around their con man of a father? He makes me sick. I see through the facade and I so want to call him out. I fight the urge and I'm constantly reminding myself to give it to god and not take karma into my own hands.

And I kept hearing how J was so sick (at death's door practically) yet he was sacrificing his health to swim with the girls. I hope he catches a cold and sneezes his head off.

Yes I am owly and snippy tonight. I kept my mouth shut all day. I got to let it out.

WH

[Matt165]

Hi WH,
You know I see in my W that now that she has left, she pays very little attention to our oldest D who just turned 19 (She just grad from HS in June). It's like since she is over 18, she has no responsibility for helping her pay for college, get her a car so she can get a job, etc. The house she rented only has 2 bedrooms so if she stays with her mom she will have to share a room with her 14 year old sister (at least if her sister is there. So far she hasn't been there but one night)! The house even had 3 bedrooms but she turned one into her "office" which she doesn't really need. She also is wanting to send our D14 to public school for the first time as she doesn't want to pay for it or be bothered by having to pick her up and drop her off every day. She'd rather have a school bus do it! This from the woman who said we had to sacrifice to put the kids in private school for the last 14 years!

She also was so concerned that we share custody with D14. Now that she has moved, in the last 3 weeks my D has spent a total of 2 nights there (one was just last night). And today she is dropping her off at her grandmothers to stay with her! I really think the only reason she wants joint custody is because of the stigma of a mother not having custody and that she would have to pay CS as well.

And last but not least, just like J, my W is now ALWAYS so sick. It's like they are so sure that they are going to die half the time. I swear it boggles my mind how similar the MLC S's act! Hang in there. I know how hard it is to stay calm and just keep our mouths shut but better to let them just act like the idiots they seem to have become! You are not alone!

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks, Matt.

I am really having problems today. I am just so angry. This whole thing just makes me sick. I am shaking I am so angry.

You would think after all I have been through nothing would faze me. Wrong. I know everyone says I should count my blessings he still wants to be part of their life. J only wants something that will benefit him. He doesn't want to be called a deadbeat dad. As long as he has more than weekend placement he can tell everyone that he is a "good" dad. He isn't a "good" dad. Just because you aren't a drug dealer and because you don't want to pay child support doesn't make you a good dad. You could have 100% placement and still be a deadbeat dad.

I am just livid inside and I have no control over anything J or OW do. It makes me sick that my kids get no reprieve from this woman. I feel like screaming.

I am not sorry. I am angry, dammit and I have every reason to be. I am trying to work through it. If I just ignore it the anger will explode.

WH

[job]

WH,
I can understand you anger and I would be angry too w/the way things are going down in "J's" household, however, there is nothing you can do about the situation, except provide a safe haven for your children when they are w/you, i.e., which you do.

When you get home this evening, use that anger to complete some "dreadful" project that you've had on the back burner for quite some time. You definitely need an outlet to let that steam off.

I'm sorry things aren't going well and the ow is glued to J's pants leg. Hopefully, in time, she'll get tired of parading herself around and making snippy remarks.

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks Job.

I have calmed down. Just needed some time to work through it.

I know I have no control over what happens in J's world. Frankly I do not care, except how it affects my kids. I am a bit irritated with J also because he disconnected the landline. Not that I care but it would be nice to know because I have it programmed into my phone and it's been listed as the primary contact number for us and the kids for years. He never even mentioned it to me. Did he notify anyone in his family about this like his mother? His sisters? Anyone? He seems to think people find out this information by accident and that is just okay. Plus I tried to get a hold of him via his cell phone yesterday and today with no answer. Yesterday he was using OW's phone because "something" happened to his. Maybe they intend to share a phone since they can't seem to be apart long enough to use the bathroom. If I need to contact J about the kids, how am I supposed to do that? I guess I just don't.

I am planning to switch S's phone over to my plan. That way the bill will be paid and I can monitor it. I know J is just playing games to get me to take over S's cell phone bill. I think I will let him squeeze a bit longer. I'm trying to be one step ahead and I suspect J thinks I will get irritated and p*ssed off enough to take over the bill. If I don't react quick enough he might just ask me to. I guess the key in this whole dynamic is to outlast J kind of like in the divorce process.

Which speaking of that, since J was the petitioner in our case he is responsible for filing the Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law and Judgement of Divorce. My attorney emailed J today to ask him if he was aware he was required to do these things and had he done them? So far no response from J. I think he was playing hooky from work. I sent him an email about the kids and got an out of office bounceback.

Not sure what happens if J doesn't do this. I'm not paying my attorney to do anything else. J can pay his attorney to advise him.

Hoping the weekend without the kids goes quickly. I miss those kids so much I could pop!

WH

[beatrice]

I guess the key in this whole dynamic is to outlast J kind of like in the divorce process.

Yes, I think it is. At some level I think the MLCer is trying to 'win', to be right about things, to justify what another (mostly dormant!) bit of their brain is shrieking out 'this is wrong wrong wrong and you know it'. I suspect that is what drives their huge anger. With my xh, like yours, anger if they do not get their own way, erupts quickly and childishly. So tired of that behaviour.

I am sorry that you have to do this horrible co-parenting thing. I am so grateful that my kids were grown and I didn't have to. Having a MLCer dad as a child must be awful. However, I strongly believe that one responsible loving parent is enough. They get to see what normal is, and that you provide a safe haven. At what age can they say what they want in your state?

The business with the phone is typical of the way they simply act without thought of the consequences for others. Typical teen behaviour 'It seemed like a good idea at the time'

I would get good and angry - and as Job said use the energy to do some noisome task.

[wishing, hoping]

Okay I have calmed down, for now. I have a wee bit o'Irish in my blood and when I get mad I get good and mad and it takes a long time for me to calm down.

I had to take D to the dentist yesterday because her gum was bleeding in one spot and she said it was itching like crazy. She couldn't even brush there because it hurt her so badly. The dentist said there was something embedded in her gums that was trying to work it's way out. Kind of like a splinter. He said he wasn't concerned, but if it wasn't better in a week to bring her back in. He gave her an oral antiseptic rinse to use after every meal and she says it feels better already. Turns out D had a toothpick at her dad's and poked herself with it and that is what is embedded. I called J today to tell him about the medicine and to make sure she takes it and to explain what the dentist said. He said he was aware of the toothpick incident and didn't think anything of it even after D's tooth started bleeding. I told D not to use any more toothpicks because of this.

Tonight I am going to a major league baseball game with some co-workers. We got free tickets and are sitting in the vendor box. Should be a good time. It's been a long time since I have been to a baseball game.

So I need to find a new stove. The new part needed is no longer carried because the stove is so old and would cost over $300 if it was available. That's just for the part, not for the labor to install. So I have started the search. I will take care of it because my landlord is slow on the draw. Otherwise it will be another month before I get my stove.

Funny as it may seem, I have been giving dating advice to my friend back home who has been recently divorced as well. She has about 4-5 men chasing her. But they are all losers with issues. Some drink too much, some have commitment fear, some watch porn, PLUS her ex she just divorced wants her back yet hasn't made one step to change himself for the better. It makes me sad to watch this. I keep telling her she is worth more than these idiots, but she keeps telling me she doesn't want to give up on these guys if its "Meant to be". UGH. I told her there is no such thing as "meant to be" and even if there was, there would be no immediate red flags with "meant to be". It would just be. I feel like a jaded and bitter woman when I keep reminding her off all the red flags that pop up. I told her that everyone has issues, but she needs to decide if these issues are ones she can live with or not. That is what makes the difference.

Thing is I used to be like that. Making excuses for bad behavior and wanting to give guys second chances and accepting their issues which were honestly unacceptable to me. Not wanting to throw something away that was "meant to be". Ugh. That phrase really makes me nauseated. It's on the same level as "you complete me".

I apologized to her because I don't want to rain on her parade and be a negative nelly. She said she needs me to be direct and firm with her because she has a soft spot for these guys and I call it like I see it. In my relationships with people I have always been the mature, wise one everyone comes to for advice. It's no wonder when I found myself in this predicament no one really knew how to help me or what to say. I had to save myself. And I did.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Hello again

Another night at the circus. D had BB and of course OW was there sitting on J's lawn chair with her feet up and cold drink in her hand. I said nothing to her. Why would I? I talked to S and saw D who came up and gave me big hugs. J said D was cranky and tired and was having an attitude. She didn't want to play she wanted me. So I stood by her dugout so she could be by her team. A little later she had to go to the bathroom but was afraid to go because she said her bottom was sore. I went with her and she eventually went to the bathroom but it took some time and coaxing. As we were leaving OW came in and said "your daddy sent me in her to look for you". I just smiled and kept walking.

Later J stopped by to let me know he would give me some money for the dog deposit and to drop off the crate. I was unloading the new stove from my car so it was for once good timing. He helped me get it in the house and into position. He then wanted to have a talk. Oh yes, you know it.

He called me out for being rude to OW. Oh yes...ow goes out if her way to be kind and considerate. What? Oh did I let J have it. I told him in no uncertain terms that OW and I were not friends and never would be friends. I said I am not kissing her butt and I don't expect her to nor do I want her to kiss mine. I don't want anything to do with her. I will be civil to her, but that's it. He said I was poisoning her relationship with the kids and OW and the kids get along great. Bull. I told him I have nothing to do with their relationship and I am not getting involved in it. If the kids mention her I tell them I don't want to talk about her. And that's that. I won't talk about her, and I am not "facilitating" the relationship between my children and this other woman. Not my circus, not my monkeys. And I also told J that I am not defending myself any more. Case closed.

He then told me about all the times when she has started "dissing" me and J has come to my rescue and defended me telling her "she is the mother of my children" blah blah blah. I almost think J is trying to instigate the negativity between me and this woman. Frankly I don't want to care enough to hate her. I don't hate her but I certainly don't like her and she isn't someone I would hang with for any long period of time even if she hadn't slept with my husband.

I think OW's insecurity is starting to bubble to the surface and J is stirring the pot with a big spoon. I don't want any part of it. I have not tried to get in the middle and I continue to just watch from the sidelines.

WH

[beatrice]

In what parallel universe would you be 'friends; with a woman like that who was sleeping with a married man?

The very fact that she is dissing you probably inspires J to think that you do the same. Pure projection here.

Everyone else is to blame but them for everything in the universe from house prices, through the weather to the poor relationship with their children. I swear the thought 'Could it possibly be me?'never flitters across the edgs of their consciousness, never mind take up any kind of residence there.

To this day my xh blames me for pretty much everything. Apparently 'everyone' but me gets along with their ex spouse and their new partner. That's nice, isn't it? Cheers you up really.

[LoisB]

What an A-hole!

I know, I know, it should come as NO SURPRISE at this point...but, seriously?

I'm so glad you told him you WOULD NOT BE DEFENDING YOURSELF ANY LONGER.

I wish this man would fall off a sharp cliff.

Did he, at least, call before he "dropped by?" What an arrogant pig...he must enjoy the whole two women in his life thing...It's like he is still cake eating even though you are divorced and refusing to engage. He's trying.

[wishing, hoping]

Heather, if this man falls off the sharp cliff, I hope he takes OW with him. They can't be apart for too long you know.

Yes, he did call and leave a message that he would stop by, but I was outside trying to unload my oven, so I didn't get the message until after he left.

J called again this morning and said he told OW to pack up the stuff at her house for the dog so he can give it to me. He still hasn't given me the money he promised and with J I don't believe he will do anything until he actually does it. He said he would give me a check. HA! Will it be any good? He better know that he will never hear the end of it if it isn't.

J wants to get together so we can go over paystubs and set a basis for exchanging financial information. He asked me if I had variable expenses already and I said yes, but he said he had none. Well duh...who do you think pays for most of the kids' stuff? It isn't J, the wonder dad.. It's poor WH who puts the kids first all the time.

I was talking to a friend about my conversation with J and she said I don't believe he would defend you to OW, and I said J would for two reasons: One, J loves drama and is probably stirring the pot with OW. He used to defend his first ex to me whenever I got frustrated with her antics and OW will not escape that path. J loves to pit people against each other. His mother was a pro at that as well. Two, J knows that I will do anything for those kids and if he ticks me off too much, then he has lost his backup for the kids. He is trying to butter his bread on both sides without making a mess.

And yes, Heather, I am sure he loves the fantasy in his head that two women are "fighting" over him. GAG. I'm not fighting over him. I am not fighting period.

This guy is off his rocker.

WH

[LoisB]

Oh, don't confuse my surprise with ACTUAL surprise! This is par for the course with this guy. I think they ALL defend OW. In MC, Smokey said that OW was a good lady. I will never forget that.

I guess it's just the balls this guy has in your situation. I mean to come to YOUR NEW HOUSE...the one he forced YOU INTO...and DEFEND the OW AND, AND, AND ask YOU to be nicer???? After you have allowed her into your home, watched them set up housekeeping in your family home and endured countless BB games, birthdays, etc...What planet does he live on? I'm surprised, but I'm not.

What a sick, ARROGANT bast@rd.

How can you establish more boundaries as you go along? I know you worry about the kids being left on their own to fend against this evil...but, you are expecting so much from yourself Wishing. Seems like you are still in the thick of it. I know you are in thick of it for the kids...but, if it's in your face constantly, how can you heal?

[wishing, hoping]

You know, Heather, I have my moments, but I am fine. J is asking me to be nicer because OW and her folks are giving him money. She's not happy, he's worried his money tree might wither and die. And honestly I don't care. I don't have to be "nicer" and I don't have to "like" her and I said my peace to J. He is trying to butter his bread on both sides like I said. This man is crazy. He's a real POS. I am coming to accept that fact, but that doesn't mean I have to accept his crazy in my life.

And it's not in my face constantly. I won't allow it. She wants to go to kids' functions, fine. I can't stop her I guess. But that doesn't mean I have to associate with her and if she and J want to think I am the evil devil woman then fine. I don't care. I can wear that badge with pride.

According to J he is telling OW to be nicer to me. I don't care. Let her be a b*tch to me then it's hats off, folks. She thinks I purposely aggravate her? HA! I have not yet begun to aggravate her. I told J I am never around her, so how could I possibly aggravate her? If she doesn't like it then she can leave. I was here first. LOL.

Reality is settling in for J and it's not pretty. My kids see through this act and things are getting ugly. J wants me to smooth things over with the kids and I am not doing it. Not. Doing. It.

He made his rumpled bed, now he can sleep in it. If he can get OW to move over.

WH

[LoisB]

As long as you feel OK more than not.

On the bright side, I'd miss these soap opera antics of his if you were to shut him out completely. It's so much better than the Young & the Restless...more like the middle-aged, insane and crippled.

I will keep watching.

[wishing, hoping]

Oh trust me, I get P*SSED!!

But it felt good last night to lay it on the line with J. OW probably put him up to it. Was probably offended because I didn't talk to her and I didn't engage in conversation with her. She seems like one of those that has to stick her nose in everyone's business even if it doesn't affect her. She also seems to be one of those that has to have everyone like her.

I don't like her and I don't have to like her. My kids don't like her, my dog doesn't like her and my friends don't like her. This isn't the J and OW show, although it does seem like comedy hour from time to time.

I am just going to let things unravel from a distance. Although I wish I could scoop up my kids and get them as away from the insanity as possible. But at least this way they can see what it really is about and that mom isn't just mad at dad and making things up.

WH

[LoisB]

I have tremendous respect for your ability to stand your sane ground, within the insanity, as a beam of stability for your kids. I'm sure this will be invaluable. I really do respect your willingness to BE in the mix. My siblings and I didn't have this when my dad married his OW. I can see how helpful it would have been to have my mom as the sane party...always there if we needed her. We were left to fend for ourselves. I get it.

It's like having a safety net in the background, always there to step in, if need be.

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks, Heather. I will pick up my cape from the dry cleaners. LOL!

Actually no capes. Wonder Woman never wore a cape. Did she? I still would love to have that magic lasso.

I am in the running for supermom of the year. LOL.

WH

[LoisB]

Wonder Woman had a very COOL cape with stars on it. It's in my closet. :-)

[wishing, hoping]

Oh yes, now I remember. It was a blue cape with white stars and it tied around her neck, right?

Capes get in the way of serious business. Remember "The Incredibles"? No capes. J can have a cape for his "superdad of the year" costume. I sure it comes in camo with a matching beret and fluorescent yellow socks.

WH

[AJM]

Wait. So J can pull all this crap with you and the kids and then pin it all on you and the new OW? He can just step aside while you two duke it out?

Seems wrong to me somehow. Ironically, I felt a similar attempt being made by ex not long ago. It struck me as odd. My way of dealing with it? I don't talk to either of them. I'll talk to her if and when necessary, but he has absolutely nothing I need. Nada. I neither need to get angry with him nor happy about him. I don't have to like him nor do I have to dislike him. He's a lot like the cardboard that my television came in. I see it, but I don't really get excited about it.

Food for thought,

AJ

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks, AJ, but I'm not duking anything out, unless she does something horrible to my kids and even then I will probably address it with J, not OW. She is nothing to me.

I only talk to J about the kids. But he usually uses that opportunity to raise issues about other things. Frankly, I think J just likes to hear himself talk. It makes him feel important. I don't know if he even cares if a resolution is made or not. He uses whatever excuse he can to talk to me about anything. I think honestly part of him is trying to aggravate OW and then blame it on me. He's good at that. Shifting the blame part, I mean. That doesn't mean I will hold onto that blame. Heck no. She wanted crazy, she got crazy. She's going to a wedding tomorrow with J and the kids. I am sure that will be a huge dog and pony show. Not many people there like OW either. Oh, they will be nice and courteous to her face and then talk madly behind her back.

Oh yes, I am glad to not be a part of that crazy anymore. No matter how you dress up that pig's ear, it ain't even relatively close to a silk purse.

WH

[LoisB]

These two DO bring new meaning to the phrase, "What Fresh Hell is this?"

[beatrice]

We might be fake pearls, but they are real swine!!

[wishing, hoping]

LOL! Bea.

I wonder if J calls OW "my little pork chop"?

Come to think of it, she does somewhat resemble Miss Piggy. But Miss Piggy has better fashion sense and doesn't wear buddy holly glasses.

WH

[beatrice]

If you are young, very chic and elfin like, then Buddy Holly glasses can look good. Otherwise I would tend to avoid them as a fashion statement.

Miss Piggy without the charm and fashion sense sounds like an unbeatable combo

[wishing, hoping]

OW is not young, chic or elfin in any way, shape or form.

Yes, Miss Piggy has more charm and grace in her little pinky than OW could ever imagine having or has probably even witnessed.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

S just texted me and told me OW is bringing her kids to this family wedding. That will be one motley crew. S is beside himself. Now he has to endure them for a 2-1/2 hour car ride and in a cramped hotel room. Plus I don't think J rsvp'd for 6 people, probably only for 4. Rive Gauche.

I wish I could scoop my kids out of that craziness. I know there have been crazier things but they are so unhappy. I hate that.

J did mention to me during our "discussion" Thursday that OW' ex was a real jerk. He did say something about her ex refusing to switch weekends so she could go to the wedding. Anyone with half a brain in her head would have said I just won't go and I will stay home with my kids. Not OW. We will just bring them along because everyone will be so excited to see my kids. And who cares if we rsvp'ed for four. Two more won't hurt. Such selfish behavior.

And it doesn't affect me at all. It bothers my son, which really bothers me. I told him to discuss how he feels with his dad. I don't know if he will or not. I just wish I could do more.

WH

[LoisB]

I wish someone, other than you, could help your S understand he DOES have a choice. He could opt out of going. He is a teen and he doesn't have to participate if he feels it's too much. I understand he probably wants to be there for his sister.

Also, he sounds like a smart kid...otherwise he wouldn't see things so clearly. Maybe tell him to view this as an experiment of sorts...Follow GoatGal's lead. Suggest he look at this as a social experiment where he is observing a bunch of baboons in their native habitat. Maybe he could get some distance and objectivity that way? IDK...Just thinking out loud.

I guess I'm thinking about kids I've worked with from bad situations. Acknowledging the insanity, but giving them a frame of reference sometimes helps. Yes, this is insane, and, YES, you will be ok and, yes, it's ok to step back and observe without becoming invested in the drama. I know it's a ridiculous expectation to put on a teenager's head, but it's not a bad life skill to develop. If life hands you lemons??

[wishing, hoping]

I suggested to S as he gets older that he could opt out of going. By I don't know if J will let him. J wants to show off what a great dad he is. He also doesn't want me to have more overnights because he is afraid I will go after more placement. I can't for two years because I am locked in. But when I asked the GAL when S can decide for himself who he stays with the GAL said he had no choice until he was 18. I can't believe that would be true.

I feel helpless. And that stinks.

WH

[LoisB]

That's not true. Not true.

If S made a stink, he could opt out. But, he may have to make a stink...and, is that worth it? IDK.

You're not helpless Wishing. I know it feels that way. S isn't helpless either. There are solutions here.

I think you may feel better if you explore what your options are...in the worst case scenario. If S cannot continue to endure this. He is smart and that's almost a pity because...I was smart...and I know...when you see the insanity, it makes it that much harder to ignore it. Ignorance is bliss.

On the other hand, being smart means you can develop coping skills...with guidance.

IDK. I hurt for you and for him.

[wishing, hoping]

I was told in this state the kids cannot refuse to see their dad and that I must make them go if they don't want to go. Until they are 18 and can make that decision for themselves.

Don't hurt for me, pray for my kids that they can cope with this madness. Pray that J starts putting them first for a change. Pray anything for their sanity.

In other news I have the dog now. J gave me $100 which is better than nothing. My finances are pretty tight now since I bought the stove and paid this dog deposit and had to buy stuff for the dog. J has not taken care of this dog. He is losing fur, overweight and listless. I asked J what food he has been feeding him and I don't trust that dog food. His fur is loose he has dander all over and his coat is not shiny like it was. Plus J has not been buying the flea and tick meds and the heartworm meds. "I have not had the opportunity" he says. I told him we need to split that cost AND the dog hasn't had his shots this year (due in April). So guess who gets to take care of that now.

This guy can't take care of anything. What a worthless POS.

WH

[LoisB]

Wishing,

I'm sorry if that came off condescending. It wasn't meant to. This is an issue I worry about in my own situation and, maybe, I'm wishing I have more control than I do.

In Ohio, I know you cannot be held in contempt if your teen refuses to attend visitations. If the non-custodial spouse takes issue, then that spouse will have to ask the courts to intervene. And, even if they do intervene, there isn't much they can do when it's a teen. I also learned that having D11 in counseling would be helpful if visitation ever became an issue because I would need to prove that the visitations would be detrimental to her anxiety/peace-of-mind. I would need sound character witnesses to back me up...in that case.

Sorry about your dog. I'm sure you will get him back to healthy. Sad J couldn't even figure that one out.

[wishing, hoping]

Hey Heather

What you said didn't bother me at all. Its just that I am fine. I just hate my kids being involved in this mess.

My SIL texted me and told me she won't make it to the family wedding. She said J's niece (who thinks J is totally creepy) is planning to rescue D from the craziness and have her sit with her other cousins. I told S to stick with his cousin because they will rescue him. I said if he wanted away from the little kids to go by J's other sister (who is normal) and her husband. So the kids can get away from the madness and enjoy their family at the same time.

In other news the dog is making lots if friends.. He seems to be making himself at home. Lol. I bought some better food and brushed him really good. He looks better. Lots better.

Meeting some friends for dinner in a bit. Have to make some bake sale items for D and S's lemonade stand as well. Good thing I have an oven now. The landlord thought I got a good deal with this oven. He said he buys all his appliances off Craigslist.

I think the kids will be okay and have fun if they can get away from OW and the monsters as S calls them. J's family cares about those kids, and I think they will be okay now.

WH

[beatrice]

Good the family stepped up to the plate for your kids.

My consistent view from the start of recognizing MLC was that I would not trust my xh to look after a hamster these days - if your poor dog is anything to go by it seems they are all like this. I swear they can't look after anyone but themselves, and apparently not always that very well.

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks Bea.

Now S says J is angry with him for spending time by his aunt and uncle. Geez...what a tool. I told him your dad will get over it. S just can't win.

Plus S texted me saying OW's brats are coming to his summer camp this week. She apparently has them this week so instead of spending time with them, she is putting them in all day camp. Nice. They can't get away even if they try!!

I am so disgusted right now. I weeded the garden a bit bit still ticked off. I feel like pulling my kids from camp this week just so they don't have to deal With those kids. I just feel like things are spinning out of control for my kids.

WH

[Matt165]

Hi WH,
My dog that my W took is not doing at all well either. When we lived together it seemed she cared more about him than me OR her kids! Now, he is losing weight, tearing up her home and can't stand being alone. She has actually resorted to putting him in a small crate when she isn't home which would be fine if she had been doing that all along. He is an old dog and it will be hard to try and crate train him now, near the end of his life. It's so sad. The MLC just can't think of anyone or anything but them!

I would look into the having to "make" a teenager go with the other parent. There must be some way that the courts can take their wishes into account. Also, if he moves out of state, the state court can't make you send them across state lines. What are you supposed to do if a 15 or 16 year old says they just won't go? Tie them up? Seems like that isn't something that can just be done or that can be "blamed" on the custodial parent! What would happen if there was abuse of some kind? How can you be forced to send your kids into a situation that is bad for them? I don't know the laws in your state for sure but I would have a long talk with my lawyer and see what, if anything, can be done on that front. That really seems awful and counter to what is best for the kids!

Hang in there WH!

[kml]

You know, ow might be sending them to camp together in hopes they will get to be more friendly with each other. And although that seems like a long shot given your son's current mood, it WOULD actually be better for the kids if they got along. After all, her poor kids are stuck with her as a mom and your crazy ex!

[wishing, hoping]

I have talked and talked and talked with lawyers, GALs, judges, counselors, etc. They won't budge. I have spent over $25,000 on this case. I am done talking.

Unless J feeds them drugs or whips them the kids have to have time with their father. The mere fact that the kids aren't happy doesn't phase them. The courts have a formula and they do not deviate from that formula. This is their way of making it fair.

Not to be snotty but i have pursued every avenue with this. The older S gets the more say he has, but I can't deny visitation and S cannot refuse to go.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

You know, ow might be sending them to camp together in hopes they will get to be more friendly with each other. And although that seems like a long shot given your son's current mood, it WOULD actually be better for the kids if they got along. After all, her poor kids are stuck with her as a mom and your crazy ex!

I just saw this KML. Thanks for your input.

I guess her kids will be staying with her in J's house until the end of July. Not sure what is going on and why they have to be here and not in their own hometown, but I told S to please not discuss with me anymore. I said it's far too upsetting to me and I can't do anything about it. I asked him if he discussed it with his dad and he said no. I told him if he was really upset about it he needed to talk to his dad and not just tell me about it and then not confront his father. I told S I had no control over it. None so to please keep me out if it. I felt bad saying it but now that I don't live with the crazy I find it more impossible to deal with.

And yes J was mad because S stayed by his aunt and uncle all night at the wedding/reception. I told S his dad would get over it. And by the time I picked up the kids J was letting S drive his car around. I don't get that. S just turned 13 unless J wants S to start driving him around so he can have a chauffeur. Lol. S is kind of thrilled but I'm not really. I think he's too young.

I was feeling pretty crappy and when I got the kids home it all seemed to fall into place. The dog was thrilled, the kids were happy and I was making dinner for tomorrow night. S was walking the dog, D was riding her bike and I was in the kitchen. I went to check on D who was talking to the upstairs neighbors. Their niece and her kids are over for a few weeks and there are two boys and a little girl. D was playing with them nicely. They gave me an entire bag of broccoli from their garden. So nice!! And the niece told me she asked S what his favorite thing about his mom was and S replied that I was so caring and loving. She asked D and she said it was hard to pick. But she said to this woman (who D has only been around a few times) "well since we don't live with my daddy anymore my mommy is a lot happier now so I would say she's ways so happy and very loving". I really needed to hear that. I guess God knew what I needed to hear. Especially coming from a total stranger. Odd.

I wish I could protect them from all the crazy. Sometimes I think I myself am going crazy!!! They just don't need this in their lives. They are kids. So wonderful and so innocent.

WH

[beatrice]

WH - you son is young to drive, but actually studies show that kids that learn early in a non illicit way usually become good and safe drivers.

Just one thing, and it isn't a criticism, just question of balance. Sometimes your son will need to vent to you about the craziness and the unfairness. otherwise he has to bottle it up and that isn't good for him. It is very easy emotionally and culturally for men to get into the habit of bottling up what is hurting.

I do get totally that it is hard for you, and in general discussing the antics of these crazy people isn't helpful to us, but it may be necessary for your son. He isn't a little kid any more but he is a long way from being an adult.

My youngest needed to vent to me about it all recently. And he is twenty seven.

So glad that your life is falling into place. You worked hard for it.

[wishing, hoping]

See how I still get wrapped up in the crazy??? UGH! I think I make progress and now I feel like I have had this huge setback.

I know J will not let S do anything stupid in his car. But I am the mom and I worry too much. That's my job. And I hope this is good for S. I want him to be a good driver and SAFE!!!!! I will let this go, of course. But I will still worry deep down.

And I see your point about S talking to me. I clarified things for him this morning. I told him if he needed to talk to me about things it was okay, but that the things he tells me upset me especially since I can't do anything about them. I said you can talk to me, but you need to talk to your father, too. He said okay.

I called J this morning because some things were missing from D's backpack like her water bottle, her sunscreen and her sandwich container from her lunchbox. J talked to S about it (because apparently J wasn't sure where these things were) and then talked to me and said he would have OW drop these things off. Oh, that makes me feel better. Not. If the kids don't have these things when I pick them up, then I will have S go to the house and get them J and OW be dammed. But I guess J has found himself the in-house babysitter/secretary/maid he always wanted. I see it happening. J working more, gone more, and OW left to take care of the mess left behind. Right now she is more than willing to do it. I wonder how long that will last?

It's hard enough being a parent for a 13 year old boy, a 7 year old girl and a 3 year old dog. I don't need to be a parent for a 46 year old man.

WH

[job]

WH,
I'm sorry the drama continues.

It's none of my business, but I wouldn't want that OW coming to where I live. I would drive your son over and have him pick the things up, once that OW has found them. Your home is your safe and special place that hasn't been ruined by their drama and you want to keep it that way. Next thing you know, your h and the ow will be stopping by all of the time w/excuses for this and that.

Seriously, I think those two deserve each other and as long as she's willing to play his admirer, he'll continue to be happy w/her being there.

[wishing, hoping]

Hello Job

No, I meant OW would drop those items off to the kids at summer camp since she is dropping off her kids there as well. I will not let her within one foot of my front door. No way. The only reason I let J in the other night is because he helped with my stove. Otherwise, it's outside for him. He, so far, does call before he comes over and knocks and doesn't just waltz in. But I keep my door locked, just in case.

I think they deserve each other too. They can wallow in their own madness. I just wish they didn't pull the kids into it. Our kids and hers as well. Both sets of kids do not like being there. They are resisting and resentful, while J and OW are trying to force them to like each other. I don't know why those two are forcing the kids. That only makes things worse. I know when I was a kid if I was forced to be around people I didn't like, I became very angry and resentful. I can only imagine the frustration my kids are feeling, and I imagine her kids feel the same.

OW and her kids call J by a pet name. Without saying what my ex's name is, they call him a cutesie name that repeats his first name twice. We will say it is "J-J". S told me about it and I laughed. But it was nothing until I heard OW call him this at D's party. It sounded like she was calling a Pomeranian. I almost peed my pants. LOL. He must be in love with her if he is willing to let her call him that in public. How humiliating.

I will never understand this mess of a life he created. It's not my circus anymore. I wish I could keep the kids out of it.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

I don't know how I am going to make it through the next 11 years co-parenting with that man.

I told him we needed to set up some sort of child care for the month of august as outdoor camp ends August 1. I suggested D attend indoor camp for the first two weeks in august and I thought for the last two weeks of summer we could each take a week of vacation with the kids. He told me he didn't know if indoor camp was the best option and wanted to explore opportunities. I asked him what he had in mind and he had no idea. Now granted, we live 45 minutes from a major city so there are lots of camps and things to do, but nothing that will cost less than this indoor camp. And if J thinks I am going to be okay with OW babysitting the kids on my time he has another think coming. He didn't suggest it, but I bet it's on his mind.

He also doesn't want to take the dog to the vet for it's shots and says a dog doesn't need to have a yearly exam. He suggested taking him to Petco for his shots. I am hesitant. Anyone have experience with this? J told me OW takes her dog there to avoid the high vet bills. But I don't want to do this just based on her word alone. J refuses to pay any more than he has to on this dog, but yet it was his bright idea to get this dog. He said if we decide to take the dog to the vet HE wants to be the one to take him in, probably so he can say no to everything J feels is extravagant. Yeesh.

I have never ever known someone who is such a spendthrift and such a tightwad at the same time. Unless the money is being spent on him.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Okay now I am p*ssed.

Trying to work out some minor details about the kids and school fees and the rest of summer camp. I had asked J the other day about signing the kids up for summer camp. He said he wanted to explore our options. I called him out on it again. He mentioned something about having OW watch the kids the rest of the summer. I knew it!!! He said she would be able to take the kids swimming and to the lake, etc. He said he was hesitant to talk to me about it because he thought I would have a problem with it. I said you're right. I do. I don't feel comfortable with that. He asked me why? I said on my days it isn't happening. I said it can happen on your days, but not on mine. I just feel sick right now.

He said if that's how you feel then that is how you feel. I said that's how I feel. He is going to shove this woman down my f'in throat. And my mids' throat.

My sixth sense has been going gangbusters. I feel sick and nauseated.

I really need to calm down.

WH

[Georgiabelle]

WH,

I've taken my pets to the vet at Petsmart and Petco before for shots and it was fine. Granted, one time a vet told me he was terrified of animals which led me to interrogate him as to why he became a vet.. Anyway , I'm sure the dog will do well. Sounds like he's doing better already.

In regards to OW, I'm sorry I don't have much advice. Is your h married to her? I've been reading about your sitch and she sounds like a catch to say the least:-)

Take a deep breath. You will handle this!

[Ss06]

What a circus! I'm so sorry you're dealing with all this. I think it's good you put your foot down about OW watching the kids for the duration of the summer. I'd have trouble with that, too. I'm amazed at your tenacity and strength.

[wishing, hoping]

No they aren't married...yet. We just finalized our divorce about a month ago.

J told S that "your mom is very sensitive about the things OW does with you guys.".You think dumba$$??? I asked S if he wanted OW to watch him every day. He said not really. He said J was taken aback by the fact that I harshly said no. J seems to think he was doing me a favor. Such a self-serving b*stard.

It's my worst fear that J is plotting to get the kids in his clutches more and shove OW down their throat more (and mine as well). And hence plot to get more placement with them and leave me out in the cold. But then again that might be my paranoia talking. Maybe he is just a cheap Self-serving b*stard.

I'm calming down. Little by little. But this guy just doesn't get it. Someone please put him out of my misery.

WH

[Matt165]

If D is final, how can he get more time with the kids than what the court ordered? It really stinks what he is doing! How they can think the OW belongs in their lives especially when she as acted as this one has is beyond me! From the sound of things I don't think SHE wants your kids around her that much either! Sounds to me like J is getting ahead of himself. Stay strong WH. You will get through this!

[wishing, hoping]

J is a weasel. A complete weasel. I don't trust him one iota. He has his own thoughts about things whether they make sense or not. He is a planner and a schemer. I still think he is with OW so he has a babysitter and so her folks can give him money.

And you're right, Matt. She has her own kids for an entire week, doesn't work and yet has to send them to camp? And J thinks she is gonna watch our kids all day? She can't even take care of my dog, let alone my kids.

He is just baffled as to why I can't see the benefit of this. Please!

WH

[beatrice]

J is a weasel. A complete weasel. I don't trust him one iota. He has his own thoughts about things whether they make sense or not. He is a planner and a schemer. I still think he is with OW so he has a babysitter and so her folks can give him money.

WH I get this, I really do. (my law suit still unresolved)

What about calling him on this OW taking care of the kids - a bit like with the dog? Let her try it for a week - I think he will be paying you to take them off her hands personally. However I do appreciate we do not want to make social experiments with our children!!

[Matt165]

That's the rub, isn't it? We don't want social experiments with our kids! That's what my W is doing. She keeps telling me how, even though she is ripping my D14's life apart, my D14 "will be fine". I can see that she has no idea how to make her own life work, who does she think she is to say that "D doesn't hurt the kids, it's how you act after" or "We all hurt our kids, they'll get over it" (especially since she is almost 48 years old and she STILL hasn't gotten over her own parents D!)?

We see how crazy the MLC is acting but they think that they know best not only for them selves, but for the people we care about most, our kids, and they won't listen to anything WE say as we are the "bad guys"! It really seems that a common theme with MLC is that we are somehow the "selfish" ones and that anything we want must be just to take something away from them! It doesn't matter how unselfish we were in our M. They seem to think we are scheming all the time to find ways to make THEM unhappy!

[LoisB]

Just thinking aloud...What if you asked J to pay for a counselor to help both kids digest all these changes? If you allow them to spend a week with OW, then J pays for the counseling to help them adjust to her heavy influence in your life. The kids would have a say then and someone, other than you, to vent with. And, if the counselor felt they were in jeopardy, they would have another advocate. I'd be careful to pick a decent child counselor though.

Wishing, you've gotten worked up about him "taking" the kids for more time before. I don't see that happening. Yes, this suckkks, and, yes, it's a nightmare, and, yes, you've really been through it and back and through it again...

I don't see him wanting your increasingly adolescent and angry son any more than he already does. Slow down, breathe and remember the ways God has taken care of you guys since this started. Remember when you were trapped in a house with J? Remember the insanity?

Things HAVE gotten better. You dealt with the other stuff and you will deal with this too.

[LoisB]

Oh, and I'm under no illusions that J will agree to PAY for counseling...but, I can't imagine anyone arguing that this is an ideal situation for two children who have just endured what they've endured. I know you don't want to hear it, but you may need to get your attorney involved in order to set some boundaries with J while all this gets settled. He is testing you right now and WE ALL know J is a force to be reckoned with when he WANTS WHAT HE WANTS. Don't expect yourself to face it alone. At least call your attorney and ask for his opinion.

[wishing, hoping]

S won't go to counseling unless he can go to the counselor he had before, and she is not in good shape. I've already had this conversation with him, and he doesn't want to go. All the counselors I have talked to about D say she is too young and won't understand and J and the courts will not make her go to counseling unless she has extreme behaviorial problems. But by then it's too late. J doesn't think there is any issue because she isn't a drug addict and she doesn't abuse the kids. That's right, she doesn't do anything.

I am not getting my attorney involved any longer. I owe him too much money and besides it's done and papers are signed. There is nothing anyone can or will do. J can do what he will during his time and I don't have to agree to it during my time.

Now that I have calmed down I can see J thinks he is just is trying to "do me a favor" and save me money and time. I don't think he is trying to get the kids more now, but just save himself some money. It's all about money with this clown.

I do need a way to deal with this anger and reflect off the madness of J. I wish I had Wonder Woman's bulletproof bracelets to deflect any zingers J and OW throw my way.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

So tonight instead of dragging myself to D's baseball game and participating in the three ring circus, I went out with my co-workers and had a fabulous time. I am not gonna lie. I feel really guilty about it. But when I kept thinking I should go to D's game I couldn't do it. I was having a really good time with friends and I go to EVERY game and event with bells on. Besides I was really emotionally battered. This morning my mom told me to get away from the madness and relax. And I did. My attitude has done a complete 180.

And when I finally did leave I picked up my phone (which I had left in the car for no interruptions) was blown up by J. Calls, texts, etc. I just sent him a quick reply that I had a work function that I had forgotten about.

I needed the break. Does that make me a bad mom??

WH

[LoisB]

NOPE. I'm glad you stepped away.

[kml]

No doesn't make you a bad mom.

Cracks me up that J blew up your phone.

Next time that happens, tell him you were busy having hot sweaty s e x with a talk dark handsome stranger

[beatrice]

A good mom who is taking care of herself as well Good for you

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks guys.

S is on his way to the mission trip. He is very excited. I am a bit emotional but I know be will be fine. It's now girl time. D and I have been snuggling all morning.

S texted me first thing this morning and asked me to pick them up asap because OW's kids were driving him crazy. I was already on my way. Of course J called me two times this morning telling me that S packed a bunch if stuff from his house. Not. He got a flashlight and some spending money. I had to stop by the house where OW was snoring away because J didn't send D with her backpack. What an idiot.

While we were pulling into the driveway S mentioned that J told him he was frustrated with OW and the messes she makes in "his" house. I guess she starts all these projects and never follows through with them so there are half started, half finished projects all over the house. Lmao!!! I guess J is at his wits end about it.

Perhaps the bloom is starting to come off the rose a bit.

WH

[kml]

LOl - let's hope it continues. I'm sure your life will be a bit nicer when he finally dumps OW. Yes, there'll be a new woman, but she won't come with the emotional baggage that this one does for you, and maybe he'll make a better choice next time.

Funny how once you're out of the way, he can't focus his negativity on you anymore, she gets to become the target.

[wishing, hoping]

Lucky her.

WH

[beatrice]

kml ummmmmmm OW2 didn't make my life easier

maybe he'll make a better choice next time.

Possibly, less crazy, but he now focuses more negativity on me

[wishing, hoping]

Great, great weekend with D!! Awesome girls weekend. We went to the beach, made hamburgers, went to a salon blowout sale, my boss's boss birthday party, stayed at a really nice hotel (which I got a fantastic deal on AND they upgraded us to a suite) and visited the American Girl Doll warehouse sale AND went to the zoo and outlet mall shopping. I'm paying for it today, but we both loved every minute of it. I am doing things I never thought I would do on my own or COULD do on my own. I am really learning that I can do anything I set my mind too.

Yesterday we got home and we both just crashed. I took a catnap and called J and asked him if he could bring the dog over. He said yes. Well, it took a bit longer than normal so I wondered what was up. J pulled in to drop off the dog and of course, OW was right beside him. Really? You can't let him out of your sight for five minutes for him to drop off the dog at my place? Whatever. I could never be with someone who clung so tightly. J probably likes it. But then again, maybe the noose is starting to tighten around his neck.

He had called me and wanted to go over some financial stuff, like variable expenses, paystubs, etc. He said he made an excel spreadsheet he wanted us both to go over. He asked if we could go over it at my place. And honestly, I would rather do it on my turf rather than at the house. I will clarify that OW is NOT to show up. She is not welcome in my home. I would actually prefer to work on this at a neutral location, but my fear is that she will show up anyway.

Texted a bit with S last night who is having a good time at his church mission trip and is making lots of new friends. I am so proud of that boy. I miss him (so does D) but I know he's in good hands. J asked me earlier if I had heard from him yet and I said, no, he's probably busy. J said "or else he's just ignoring me". Mr. Positive strikes again.

I am starting to make more of a life for myself when the kids aren't around, but it feels wrong. I feel like I am letting them down. That's my issue to work through though, but it isn't easy. I had kids because I felt I lived my life and I wanted to devote my time to my kids. Unfortunately I married someone whom I THOUGHT felt that way. Turns out I was wrong. So unfortunate.

WH

[kml]

I am starting to make more of a life for myself when the kids aren't around, but it feels wrong

Don't forget, one of your jobs as a parent is to model a successful social life for them! You need to show them what it looks like to have friends as an adult.

[Wonka]

^^^ nodding my head in agreement with Ellie

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks KML and Wonka. I don't know what my problem is. Too much guilt. I think it has a lot to do with my anxiety issues.

Since D will be with her daddy tonight and I have a doctor appointment, I dropped the dog off at J's house this morning. OW answered the door bright and sunny as always (not). The dog tried to make an escape. LOL! I don't know why, but it really torks me off she has set up residence in this house like she owns the place. I am trying to work through it and let it go. Some part of me (the detective part I think) is still searching for "why". I keep thinking there is something about her that is better than me. More desirable and I have this nagging need to figure out why. But I will probably never know why. And that bugs me.

On another note, J still continues to be overly nice to me. Not sure why? Does he want something or is he genuinely trying to be civil? I should probably put down the guns and stop thinking the worst about him, but once bitten twice shy. He calls me every day for some reason or another. Sometimes a couple times a day. I just shake my head. Sometimes I answer, other times I don't bother. He called me the other day to tell me he was on his way to Menards and did I need him to pick up anything for me while he was there??? WTH?

So a doctor's appointment tonight, D's baseball and dinner with DivorceCare group tomorrow, groceries on Friday, beach and dinner with a friend on Saturday and kids back Sunday. I am really starting to fill up my time away from the kids. I'm thinking about taking a dance class. Good way to get back in shape and D has inspired me.

WH

[kml]

Some part of me (the detective part I think) is still searching for "why". I keep thinking there is something about her that is better than me. More desirable and I have this nagging need to figure out why. But I will probably never know why. And that bugs me.

The answer, pure and simple? Like most MLCers, he gravitated towards her because A) she was available and willing, and B) she makes him feel like a big man because she is less than him.

It's surprisingly common for WASs to "affair down"; funny how seldom we read about the WASs going off with a doctor or supermodel, right? But very common for them to run off with someone who is "less than" their spouse.

And my ex, when we were reconciling from his first affair, actually told me that he felt disappointed at the time that his affair partner was so plain! (She fulfilled his Asian fantasy, but in a very plain Chinese peasant sort of way lol). He actually felt cheated that he didn't have a more attractive girlfriend lol!!!

So no - your ex's affair doesn't have to do with you, it has to do with HIM, and HIM feeling like a loser so he needs someone who is even MORE of a loser so he can still feel like the big man.

And I would quit answering his calls except when they are important. I have a feeling your cell phone is going to start getting very glitchy very soon

[LoisB]

Wishing, for being divorced, he is still so much a part of your daily life. I think that needs to change. Just my opinion. He is weaseling into your new life. Nip it. NIP IT IN THE BUD.

[kml]

BTW - although my ex's current wife - not an OW - is cute, younger, and possibly a bit more athletic than I was - I also know for a fact that she makes a lot less than me (one of my ex's bogus excuses for leaving was that I wasn't making enough money lolol), and isn't as smart. She seems nice enough, and fulfills his Asian fantasy, but really, she hasn't got anything on me. She's just different.

[wishing, hoping]

Fortunately my cell reception in my home is spotty at best. So calls drop frequently if you get my drift. ; )

But unfortunately, J and I do have to handle the kids and since we both live in the same town, there is a lot of coordinating that needs to happen. And J forgets things A LOT so I need to call and ask him where things are. DON'T THINK for a second that it's unintentional. I have known J for 15 years and he doesn't fool me for one second.

I know OW isn't better than me. D was telling me this morning than OW picks her up from camp often because she doesn't have a job, but she needs to get a job. LOL! I don't know where that came from, but I can only guess. I have a feeling J's patience level with this woman sitting on her butt for the summer doing nothing is losing charm. I think she is just here for the summer, until school starts back in session. S said something about her being there until the end of July. God knows what those two clowns are scheming or what bright idea they had. Money is gonna get tight soon, and then the bloom will be off the rose for real.

I am trying to concentrate on my own life and making things better. Slowly paying off debt, although it's not quickly enough for my taste. But I am trying to not make things too tight. Now that things are final I am paying my own insurance which takes quite a chunk out of my check, plus my support is a bit lower since I have to contribute to H's insurance for the kids. AND now that I get maintenance, I have to pay taxes on that income, so I need to be smart. But there are things I want to purchase, like the patio table. I can't find one I am willing to put money down on. PLUS I am considering moving next summer if I can find another rental and I don't want to have to move a patio table. And I want to take the kids camping (tent style) so would like to find some air mattresses and I am hoping since it is coming end of season I can find a couple on clearance. I can borrow one from J but I want to ask him for as little as possible.

WH

[Matt165]

Hi WH,
I was just having a talk about how big a deal it is to live with someone. She is thinking of moving in with her BF because it will be easier for her to get a job and go to school as he lives downtown close to campus. I told her all those reasons are true, but that moving in together is a BIG step and one that may not turn out well. Why is it that so many MLCers seem to be so quick to start living with OW? I mean, really, when you live together you're pretty much doing the same things as if you were married just not the commitment. I don't see myself just asking some woman I'm dating after the D is final to move in with me AND my kids! They are so unable to even try to fix a many year M but so quick to start living with another person! Making their kids deal with another person they know helped end their family on a daily basis. Why is this? I'm guessing it's just part of the glitch in their heads!

Just something I was wondering about.

[wishing, hoping]

Hi Matt

I have no idea WHAT is going on in their heads. I know my X has this woman living there basically to watch the dog and to pick up the kids if he can't get there on time. Basically she is a servant, but she doesn't see it that way I am sure. Of course, she isn't a very good housekeeper. J used to rave about how clean I kept the house especially considering I worked a full-time job, took care of two kids and a dog PLUS cooked three meals a day and ran the household without a glitch. Well OW has a lot to live up to.

I hate paydays. Don't get me wrong, I like to get paid, but it's the day I pay my bills and work out my budget and that makes me nervous. I should be fine, but I always get carried away and start imagining the worst. I am my own worst enemy. Good thing, two more payments and another bill is paid off. I am trying Dave Ramsey's debt snowball. It takes time and I am not the most patient person, but I am determined.

The kids and I are taking a trip to North Carolina next month to visit my family. We were investigating flying, but it's not cost effective at all. I hate to spend all that time in the car, but at least then the kids can see the country. I have good memories of that with my mom and dad. They can spend some good quality time with their grandmother as well.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

So S is back from his mission trip. He had a wonderful time and made lots of new friends. Unfortunately he and his girlfriend broke up. Lots of tension and being apart from each other and they decided to be just friends. He seems okay and rather mature about it.

He got home tonight and was dropped off at J's house. J called me right away and told me S was home. He asked me if I wanted to come over to see him and I said I wanted to see him but was unsure about going over there. He said "I would feel bad if you didnt get to see S. Please come over." I said I was still unsure. I talked to S and he begged me to come over because he wanted to see me. So I did. I told J I would be over in a few minutes.

I got there and J was working on the platform for the sky glider he built, S was outside as was OW and her kids. I didn't know this at first but OW had climbed into the treehouse area with her kids. Hard to climb a tree with a bad back is t it?

S talked my ear off and told me so many stories. D came out and was overdue moon to see me. She jumped into my arms and wouldn't let me go.

I was there for about 20 minutes and I got the impression I had worn out my welcome. J came over and suddenly wanted S to help him with the treehouse. I was a bit annoyed because if I am not welcome, why did you practically beg me to come over?

I went to leave and D clung to me. She begged me not to leave and actually wanted to go with me. Broke my heart. I explained to her she needed to be with daddy tonight and she would be back with me in less than 48 hours. She wasn't having it. I told her she needed to stay with dad and help him on the treehouse. She said daddy doesn't let her help anymore. I kissed her and hopped in the car to leave and she literally clung to the car and begged me to stay. So I got out, picked her up and walked over to J who was I. The treehouse. I told him she didn't want me to leave and that maybe she could help him make the treehouse. He told D to come up and bring the pruning shears. I looked at him and said "are you fricking serious?". He knew I was not happy so he told her just to come up and had S bring the shears.

Just odd. Just odd. I said nothing to OW and didn't even glance her way. She said nothing to me either. That's the way I prefer it.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Lately I have been feeling that J isn't in MLC. Maybe he's just trying his best and I am just to controlling. I am trying to look at things from different perspectives. Trying not to be so negative. Trying to lose the anger but it always creeps back in.

Tonight J was supposed to bring the kids over early so we could go over some financial stuff. Earlier he told me he would be by about 6 or 6:30 which is about an hour earlier than I normally get them. I heard nothing from him so I went over at 7:30 to pick them up. Like usual. He seemed put out and annoyed that I was there. He said "I was just on my way over WH". I said "you told me you would be over at 6:30 so here I am". He said the kids were watching a movie and didnt want to interrupt them and his phone was dead. I told him I was not happy about him not contacting me to let me know what was going on. He said well, WH, you're really not supposed to pick up the kids until 8:30 in the summer. I said this is what we have been doing and you haven't had an issue with it until now. He said are we going over this tonight or not? I said no, then he got mad and said he wouldn't let me have the kids until 8:30 and that I could just leave if I was gonna have an attitude. I told him he was the one who said he would be over at a certain time and never called or anything to let me know that had changed. He asked again if we could go over this stuff and I said that was fine.

I really hate dealing with this guy. I don't think he has a MLC. I think he's just a jerk. He uses these kids against me to get what he wants.

I have so much anger and animosity for J and OW and that's my issue. I try to let it go but there is always something and that will never change. I don't think my skin will ever get thick enough that this stuff doesn't bother me anymore.

WH

[beatrice]

I thin lots of us face the question - is it MLC or is that person a jerk.

You fell in love and married someone and had two children with him. Was he ever a good kind and loving husband? If he was, and changed then it probably is MLC, but if he was always a jerk then why did you marry him?

It isn't unreasonable to expect people to stick to agreements to meet. However, i wouldn't have gone over until 8.30 if that is what is supposed to happen, even if you have been varying it to 7.30. Just out of interest why has it been varied?

So while people in MLC are usually complete jerks, if they were different then it is a probably a crisis.

[wishing, hoping]

Thanks for responding, Bea.

The reason the time varied was during school it's supposed to be a 7:30 pickup. The first time after school let out and I had planned to pick them ip at 8:30 J had called and said the kids were ready and to pick them up now. We have just kept it at that and he never said anything about it until last night. I feel like he takes these things and uses them against me if I dont do what he wants. I should know better I guess.

I just wish I didn't have to deal with him. But he came by and looked at my car. My brake lights aren't working so he checked them out. That Was considerate but he just has this way of making me feel foolish and stupid despite all I have done and accomplished on my own. Again that is on me. No one can make you feel any certain way except yourself.

I guess it is just better to have as little to do with him as possible.

WH

[beatrice]

Frankly I wouldn't trust my xh near my car !! - at this point I would be worrying he wanted to cut the brakes or sugar my gas

How pathetic of J to try and cause you to feel foolish.

I do see about the times, but I have learned that they never ever let anything go. Any action or thing I have said or done, however kind, is used against me. I do not think dialogue is possible, and Lord knows I have tried. I don't have to deal with him but he still finds ways to try and reel me in. I suspect that J will prove to be teh same (just sayin - sigh)

[wishing, hoping]

Is it really J who makes me feel foolish or is it what I attach to what he says? Does it really even matter? I am the one who hopped back on that crazy train. But sometimes I still wonder if he is sane and I am not?

J is good with cars (at least I used to think so). He looked at my brake lights and my fuse panel and I know now that there is a reason the amperage is not going to my brake system to activate the lights. Sounds like a costly repair. I really need to get a new vehicle, but I am trying to push it off. He is right about the tires, too. I was there with him the entire time so he didn't do anything suspicious. I really am over thinking J would intentionally hurt me. I think he is just clueless and thoughtless honestly.

Like this morning I discovered he didn't pack D's tennis shoes for camp. I was irritated. He always forgets to pack something. I don't know if he does it on purpose to irritate me or if he's just that clueless? It is irritating no matter which way you slice it. I called him and he immediately told me when he answered "D's shoes are by the front door". I said how did you know what I was calling about? He said he saw them at the front door and knew I would be asking. Nice.

I shouldn't care, but again I am trying to make a life for myself BY MYSELF. I don't have a backup plan. It's all me and no one to lean on, except friends. He has a cookie backup and I guess it irritates me. She is nothing but a glorified babysitter and she could really care less as long as she is "taken care of".

I really need to shake this mood off. My boss (who is divorced and going through some garbage with her ex as well) told me she really finds it admirable that I am walking this alone and doing it all myself. She said "you didn't just run off and find someone to latch onto for support. You did this and are doing this all by yourself and that is so great". She said I would end up being such a strong individual for this. I know this is true, but it's of little comfort right now.

Trying to get my act back together.

WH

[wishing, hoping]

Question:

D begged me tonight to let me get her ears pierced. We have been going back and forth with this a few times for a few months now. I finally told her okay but we need to clear it with daddy.

So I called J tonight to discuss this with him. He said he had no problem with it and if D wanted both of us there to let him know and he would make the trip. He then had to add that D talked to OW about this weeks ago and wanted to go with OW and OW told her no, that was something she needed to discuss with mom and dad and that mom would want to be a part of. Hmmmmmm...sounds fishy.

So I flat out asked D if she wanted OW to take her? She said "no...way!!". I said are you sure? She said no, I want you. She then said daddy lied. She told me "daddy just said that because he wants OW to come along so they can kiss". Lol! I couldn't help it. I said "gag" out loud. D just looked at me and said "I know, right?". Lol!!

So why would J tell me such a lie? To get me upset that my daughter and OW are so close? To make me happy that OW doesn't want to "interfere" with my mothering? What purpose could it possibly serve???

I also took my car in to get fixed. The brake lights, as you may recall, aren't working and I needed new tires. J came by and said the bulbs in my car were fine so it had to be electrical. First thing the mechanic said? "It's the bulbs. Next time don't let your ex near your car". The bottom of the bulbs were melted and corroded. I kept the bad bulbs as proof. I was thinking about making earrings from them.

What a maroon.

WH

[Ss06]

Lol @ earrings from the melted bulbs. Oh wow. He sounds like a trip. I can't pretend to know who he'd mention the ear piercing with OW and all that. How strange. Why make up a story like that??

[wishing, hoping]

Crazy thing is J used to take care of the cars and do the oil changes and brake repairs, etc all himself. His dad owned a garage years ago and J learned a lot which is why it is so shocking that J would not be able to notice these bulbs were bad. And to think he was lecturing me on the importance of vehicle upkeep. Lol! He can't even tell a good bulb from a bad one. I told him about it and he was incredulous that he was wrong. I told him I even kept the bulbs fir his review if he did not believe me. That shut him up. For now.

Moral of the story: J is a know it all who doesn't know anything.

As far as the ear piercing, I thought about it and maybe thought J would be sneaky and try to take D with just him and OW behind my back. I know, negative thinking, but once bitten twice shy. So I told D if daddy wants to take you tell him mommy has to go too. I then texted J and worded it so it didnt sound so defensive. I told him that D was so excited that she may ask him to take her but to please don't go without me because I am so looking forward to taking her. I am playing on his guilt and letting him know it's unacceptable for him to take her without me. I hope it doesn't even cross his mind.

One last note: J called me on my way home about 5:10 and said he was just leaving work. Funny how before OW was living there he used to leave work about 4:00. Anyone want to take bets that J's hours will suddenly increase and he will start working much later?

WH

[beatrice]

WH it is magical thinking. It is all what they want to be true.

And I honestly think they become de-skilled during MLC. My xh lost his second language almost entirely. My theory is that running the MLC programme in their heads takes all the space - which is (part of) why they change details, mix fact and fantasy and so on.

Would a ear piercing place not query a man bringing a little girl in on his own?