Sex was great, part 2

[Grey]

Grey,

Please take what I say in the spirit in which it is given, because I honestly am trying--one last time---to help you see what we mean.
----------------------------------------------------

There is something about the way you have latched onto this issue, the "averages" per Michelle on SSM, the statistics, the way it seems you are missing the forest for the trees.

There's something about the way you seem fixated, wanting a concrete answer, for things to conform in some way, "I do X and Y should happen",
"A marriage should be X, with sex this many times, on average", or it fits into this category or that.
It is ALL TOO FAMILIAR to me.

(The thing with the puppies affecting a woman's libido was kind of funny, but also disconcerting when I realized you were deadly serious. I also noticed you haven't responded to any of the humor offered up.)

In fact, you're deadly serious and extremely upset about this, way more than seems "average" to the rest of us.

So I'm just going to throw this out there and you take it if it rings a bell, or chuck it out the window.

But before you do, think about it really hard and maybe get more info before you tell me to stick my head in the oven. (JOKING!! )


Some here on this board know I have ADD and mild Asperger's.
Now--I'm no doctor, not by a long shot, but I have many friends that fit that description and they are some of the coolest, kindest, most creative, interesting, (best looking!) people I know.

Some things you've said and the way you've said them, and the overall interpretation you're putting on things (very black/white/statistical/concrete/not being OK with things being open-ended and vague) is something I struggle with myself.

I'm not saying you have Asperger's/ADD, but just wondering if you'd ever heard that you deal with things a bit differently than the average person, or as a child?

For the record, I wasn't diagnosed until I was 43 and 50, and it was a shock. But it sure did explain an awful lot!

Same for some of my friends.
They were driving their spouses up the wall (NOT SAYING YOU ARE DOING THIS!) and just missing social cues, misinterpreting social interactions...
They have since gone and done all the self-tests, etc. and got it confirmed that they are, in fact, wired a bit differently.

Like me, they took advantage of this information and have improved their lives and relationships in general.

In my case it was really subtle and I compensate REALLY well. I didn't think it was affecting my marriage except in subtle ways, (H has ADD too, not Asperger's though), so we sort of "got" each other. It's all the same spectrum. But probably it has in some weird way. I'm not even sure it would be a negative, to tell you the truth. I am extremely loyal, serious sense of right and wrong. Completely trustworthy.

It's hard to get a sense for this in a forum like this, but I can pick people out pretty well in person. (Takes one to know one.) And your posts just seem---familiar. Maybe that's why I feel compelled to keep responding. I dunno.

Anyhow, before you go off on me and tell me there's nothing to it, do yourself a favor and take a few of the online tests, just for fun.

Then come back here and tell me I'm a donkey's behind....

But honestly?
I was reading your posts last night and it sort of popped out at me...

It won't fix your sex life, but it might give you some insight.
Then again, this is just a anonymous forum and I'm in no position to do anything other than share my thoughts, for what they're worth.

Good luck!

---GG

Honestly, I'm looking for a way to deal with putting what I can't stop wanting on hold.

If there's a secret to not wanting sex, tell me. I'd cut that body part off if it would help, but I don't think it would to be honest. I don't think there is anything to make desire disappear.

So instead I just want to handle it better. I've gotten much better about it. But when it's bad, all the nice letters I write don't help ME feel any better, know what I'm saying? When I struggle....bury it? I can do that...but how to not let it bother me until I can actually not want sex anymore?

I sincerely don't expect her to want sex just because I do dishes and write nice notes and rub her feet. I don't feel the expectation. It sounds like it's coming across that way, like if I do x she will do sex.

I DO, however, struggle to not sometimes want sex. Better than before? Absolutely. 100% gone? I'm afraid that will never happen (and I don't believe it should, either).

To be honest, when you mentioned the forest for the trees thing, I am afraid someone like Michele might tell me I'm being TOO compromising of my own needs and ONLY focusing on her needs. It's not that I'm clingy, it's that I've paid attention, listend to Michele and my wife, and I make points to deliberately show her love in many ways...and she doesn't, know what I mean? It doesn't have to be sex-------for example, maybe I wouldn't want sex if I just felt like my wife at least WANTED to want to have sex, or did any of the things I do for her to show her love, etc? I can HANDLE less sex more than it feels like I can handle the feelings I have from not being wanted and having sex once a season (because even then it feels more like it's "for me" rather than something she actually wants like she did before me).

Michele said a SSM can be any marriage where one partner craves more touch and/or sex. I don't want it every day, but by everyone else's definition too, it's sexless, right? That's not ok to mention? It helps me to hear things like that to know I'm not crazy or wrong to have these feelings of hurt I've never felt before----that alone helps me deal with it and suppress it more.

I just have to figure out what to do when I wake up at 3 AM and can't sleep and feel unwanted and have a desire I can't fulfil.

[Grey]

Some here on this board know I have ADD and mild Asperger's.
Now--I'm no doctor, not by a long shot, but I have many friends that fit that description and they are some of the coolest, kindest, most creative, interesting, (best looking!) people I know.

I listen to a radio show with a guy with Asperger's and I think I might have it, too, maybe even ADD. I'll ask my therapist---I was supposed to go today and as I walked in the door they said they had double-booked, but I will ask. Thanks GG!

[GoatGal]

Wow.

I'm glad I posted then, because I didn't want to upset you further...

Also good to know I wasn't imagining things!

What is the radio show? I'd love to hear it.

FTR: Getting a diagnosis was--for me--sort of sad because I saw how it had affected my life in ways that I would have handled differently had I known. But after a little while, it was a relief to know that there was a reason some things bothered me more (or less) than other people and that I wasn't lazy, crazy, or stupid.

Know I UNDERSTAND some of my personality "quirks" and although I have not shared the diagnosis with too many people (most wouldn't believe it anyway), the few people I did were ones like me, having a hard time of things and not knowing why.

It helped a lot with the spouses too, who thought their partners were not tuned in on the same frequency, usually fixated on hobbies/interests...they learned it was not a personality flaw or a lack of effort... just being "different"

I can tell you that my Apsie/ADD friends are the most fun with great collections of all kinds--and they know every little detail about every item; vintage cars, bicycles, instruments.... it's crazy. But we like it.

Let me know how it turns out for you, OK?


(Glad you're not p*ssed. You're frustrated enough right now.)

---GG

[Ben2010]

I just have to figure out what to do when I wake up at 3 AM and can't sleep and feel unwanted and have a desire I can't fulfil.

Go jerk off or something, then go back to bed.

[MrBond]

"I don't put all my self-worth into sex. I just know (and knew) it is important to me. "

Yes you do put all your self-worth into sex. If you feel "alone" just for not having sex for a couple of weeks, then they are tied together.

"If I don't have sex more than a sexless marriage, I don't understand why Michele would write a book about dealing with it. I won't stay in a sexless marriage forever, if that helps. "

Wow you totally missed the point of my post and others'. You don't have a sexless M. You have a W that's sick right now but you can't seem to get that right now.

"You're right----it is too important to my well being and esteem and life is just too damn short. How long will I wait? 1 year? 4 years?"

You've been without it for a couple of weeks.

"I'm going to at least wait until she tries something new or tries counseling or anything to show me that she's trying, but I AM patient,"

Reading your posts, it's so obvious you're not.

"the problem is I keep telling myself not to feel hurt by her when I truly feel hurt and alone and can't help it."

Yes you CAN help it. That hurt that you feel? It's self-inflicted.

"You can't do that for years without changing completely. If that's the case, I'd like if she changed so she didn't need me to do the lawn anymore. That would be nice."

So you're comparing her sickness with a chore of not having to do the lawn any more. Nice.

"I'm going to read the book again. It feels like I'm being told I don't belong in a marriage because of how I feel sometimes instead of how I act to my wife all the time."

You keep saying you've "changed" but I'm not quite sure what you actually changed. She just needs compassion and understanding which you seem incapable of giving because of the thing between your legs.

[Starsky309]

Wow.

I'm glad I posted then, because I didn't want to upset you further...

Also good to know I wasn't imagining things!

What is the radio show? I'd love to hear it.

FTR: Getting a diagnosis was--for me--sort of sad because I saw how it had affected my life in ways that I would have handled differently had I known. But after a little while, it was a relief to know that there was a reason some things bothered me more (or less) than other people and that I wasn't lazy, crazy, or stupid.

Know I UNDERSTAND some of my personality "quirks" and although I have not shared the diagnosis with too many people (most wouldn't believe it anyway), the few people I did were ones like me, having a hard time of things and not knowing why.

It helped a lot with the spouses too, who thought their partners were not tuned in on the same frequency, usually fixated on hobbies/interests...they learned it was not a personality flaw or a lack of effort... just being "different"

I can tell you that my Apsie/ADD friends are the most fun with great collections of all kinds--and they know every little detail about every item; vintage cars, bicycles, instruments.... it's crazy. But we like it.

Let me know how it turns out for you, OK?


(Glad you're not p*ssed. You're frustrated enough right now.)

---GG

Sorry no real advice for Grey, but just wanted to say GG you are an angel. :)What a kind heart you have!





Starsky

[Grey]

GG what, if you don't mind me asking, did the diagnosis for Asperger's do for you?

As best as I can tell it just means I/you/we see things differently. I may have a dozen friends that have it, but I don't feel like I'm missing anything in my relationship with them, even exes.

I mean, they don't give you medicine for Asperger's, right? It's like, I might be aware I see things differently, but I also am aware how things are and how "normal" people see the world----convincing anyone else, including a spouse, to understand how someone who thinks differently actually thinks probably wouldn't work with my wife because she has no empathy----I don't mean that in an outright bad way, but she's spontaneous by nature, 100%. Getting her to understand other people doesn't really work for her---------when people change, she shuts them out, permanently----people who were her best friends, or threw her a big wedding shower party and paid for it all, or people who wanted her in their wedding. Part of the reason I'm afraid to bring any of MY part up with her again is that I've seen how she rejects people completely and without remorse, people who didn't treat her badly (again, I'm not treating her badly or agruing over a SSM, I'm "hiding" my needs while continuing to act like nothing is wrong is how it feels and meeting her needs) and they still got completely dumped, for the lack of a better term.

She traveled the world with one friend, a really good friend, the one who knows more about her than anyone, the one I thought was best to come to first about choosing a ring for her. She doesn't "party" (she's 53) like my wife (50) and she used to for decades, and my wife doesn't want to have anything to do with her really. They didn't have a big fight or anything, they just lost things in common, life happened, and while her friend wants to stay friends and do dinner or sit by her pool, my wife dropped her. Same thing with the next best friend, who got engaged and wanted my wife to be in her wedding. She wouldn't even return the message, but came to me about how crazy she is to think she'd be in her wedding.

I'm not saying any of that to judge her----I'm saying it because I'm terrified of her doing to me what she's done to other people when I'm contemplating asking her to do something she doesn't want to do and listen. So I don't talk. I brought it up once and it was a nightmare. She doesn't read anything or talk to anyone about how to make a relationship work, so she doesn't know how, only the catch 22 is I can't tell her, either.

[GoatGal]

" GG what, if you don't mind me asking, did the diagnosis for Asperger's do for you?"

Grey,
It helped me understand how I process and perceive. Why some things seem harder than they need to be. Why being in certain situations really exhausts me.
It helped me build on my strengths and compensate better for my weaknesses. It allowed me to give myself permission to give myself a break when needed. I get overwhelmed easily, sensory stuff, social stuff.

I'm not shy--far from it--but I am an introvert at heart.

There is a LOT of great info out there that explains it much better than I can.


"As best as I can tell it just means I/you/we see things differently. I may have a dozen friends that have it, but I don't feel like I'm missing anything in my relationship with them, even exes."

There is a lot more to it than this. And I'm not sure if you meant that them having Asperger's doesn't affect your relationship with them, or that you feel you're not affected by perhaps having it yourself.

The fact that you have so many Aspie friends is telling in and of itself. Most "normal" people find them very trying indeed.

You might not feel anything different.
It's all we know.
But "regular people" can often pick up on it, even though they might not know what "it" is.
When we're missing something, we're missing it, right?
If we KNEW we were missing it, we wouldn't be missing it, you know?
Think about WHY the exes might be exes.

For example, you have not once picked up on any of my quirky attempts at humor. I tend to think that, like some other things, you are, in fact "missing" important cues.


"I mean, they don't give you medicine for Asperger's, right? It's like, I might be aware I see things differently, but I also am aware how things are and how "normal" people see the world----

Trust me, none of us can know what it's like to be someone else.
When I finally understood HOW different my perceptions and ways of thinking were from regular folks, it was a shock.
"You mean everyone is not like this inside their heads????"
I really was shocked, and for a while, resentful.
It seemed everyone else had it SOOOO easy.
Now I don't feel that way. I see that I have many gifts that completely outweigh having to struggle a bit in other areas.

convincing anyone else, including a spouse, to understand how someone who thinks differently actually thinks probably wouldn't work with my wife because she has no empathy----


It's NOT about teaching others how to compensate for you.
Getting a diagnosis is so you can be better at being yourself.
More effective, more comfortable, more flexible.

Other people might know about it, or not.
Most people do NOT know about me, including my family. They would never believe it, quite honestly. As I said, I compensate REALLY WELL, and I have since childhood.
Making friends and coping socially were very important to me, so I learned and learned, and my parents instilled good social skills in us... but trust me---NONE OF IT CAME NATURALLY.
It is a testament to my sheer will that most people cannot tell.

I don't mean that in an outright bad way, but she's spontaneous by nature, 100%. Getting her to understand other people doesn't really work for her---------when people change, she shuts them out, permanently--"

"I've seen how she rejects people completely and without remorse, people who didn't treat her badly..."


"She traveled the world with one friend, a really good friend, the one who ....They didn't have a big fight or anything, they just lost things in common, life happened, and while her friend wants to stay friends and do dinner or sit by her pool, my wife dropped her."

"Same thing with the next best friend, who got engaged and wanted my wife to be in her wedding. She wouldn't even return the message, but came to me about how crazy she is to think she'd be in her wedding."

"I'm not saying any of that to judge her----I'm saying it because I'm terrified of her doing to me what she's done to other people when I'm contemplating asking her to do something she doesn't want to do"


All this stuff concerns me. You never mentioned this about her before.
This is a red flag to me.

What do you make of this?

---GG

PS: The first part of your post was in response to my post, but then it was right back to her. You sound stuck on this loop. That's an Aspie thing too! Do yourself a big favor and follow through on this with yourself. You're already seeing a counselor (can I ask why?), so it's a great opportunity to bring it up. You have nothing to lose, only insight to gain.

[Grey]

K, I hear on on the "Aspie" thing. I am going to therapy anyway so I'll ask my doctor-----------I think, like you, I might have it but worked deliberately to adjust to it and be social (I'm the most "popular" guy most of my friends know, for what it's worth). I took an online AS test and I was under, but that may be just because I've changed like you have to be more social and stuff.

But yes, I go back to her because she IS my wife--------she's the other part of this relationship, right? I don't get it. Like, I think the real problem IS with her, such as her inability to realize different people ARE different and have different needs, right?

But I can't tell her that. At the same time, I don't think it would make any sense to expect her to realize that on her own.

You asked why I'm in therapy-------I started therapy a long time ago when I dropped out of med school and didn't know what I wanted to do. Therapy helped. I think it's fascinating. I didn't go back because I'm depressed or feel crazy; I went back honestly to try to find better ways to improve myself, namely how I deal with stress and how to handle it better.

My motto on therapy has always been that some people need it, most people don't, but everyone can benefit from it.

I dunno. It sounds like I'm a jerk if I say I'm in good mental health. My wife isn't "sick," a sick person can't party like she does, know what I mean? I think it's simply she doesn't know what I need and I can't tell her because she doesn't want to do any work---she's spontaneous by nature.

Oops, there I go talking about her. I dunno. I can't talk about her it sounds like? But if I talk about me it all sounds too perfect and I'm the jerk complaining about my imperfect wife? I don't get it. I hear Michele saying it probably feels better to have these feelings recognized by Michele of countless others, and it does, but everything I read and have been told, while they might say different things on exactly what to do, say that something has to be done to fix any situation. My wife won't do anything on her own, and if I ask her about it she's instantly defensive and feels "pressured." So just talking about my feelings, it sounds nice and it SHOULD work, only it has the opposite effect. So I don't talk about them. I keep it in and I stay the nice husband--------isn't that part of the problem? You have to act nice because who would want to be nice to a mean person, but if I don't act any differently she doesn't know that this still bothers me? So the answer is to talk about it...except that she takes it so personally.

Not just with me (I get the argument that I'm an insensitive spoiled young creep because I want to make love with my wife once a month), but with anyone, with any situation. For example, I haven't been able to visit my grandmother 5 hours away. My wife loves her, no problem, but a whole weekend for something I want to do, she can't get excited about that and feels "pressured" to do something she wouldn't want to do. So I don't do it. I don't see my family. I can't go alone----that would be even worse---but here we are. What should I do? What do people do with a partner who doesn't think anything's wrong and has nodesire to look at how they can be a better partner, for example? I'm afraid the same would be true if it wasn't sex-------it's about being a team, knowing, listening, I dunno, I feel trapped knowing too much about what I'm doing right, like I've been too good for too long.

[GoatGal]

Grey,

You are stuck in the same loop, going around and around.
You've been there for weeks now.

You've got to get your focus on something else---ANYTHING ELSE--right now.

Go do some art, catch a lobster. Anything.

Please stop OBSESSING over your wife and your sex life.
Really, that's all you're doing and how much is it helping you?

It's time to help yourself. That's all you can do.
You can't help her, fix her, or change her.

It's not an "all or nothing" situation.

Seriously.
Follow up on what I said and please take a break.

I feel for you, but this is not healthy for you or for her.

I don't want to read another word here until you take a break, get some clarity, see your therapist... then I'd like to hear all about it.

But not until then, OK?

--GG