Wife is Continuing Affair-When do I Start LRT III

[Devaste]

Zee,

I am concerned with those thoughts. Her suicide talk has occurred throughout the stitch. And much earlier in our R, and she did significant CBT and work to try and minimize and control those thoughts. As she noted, it goes back to when she was held up by a shotgun as a teenager, and was abandoned by the system. Her father has tried to commit once. Mental health is very serious in her family.

I am concerned about her comments. They are sincere. I think she is trying to let me low how she feels. She has said I deserve better on several occasions, which I usually would try to argue. Haven't done for the last while, as I realize that I can't argue how she feels.

I'm going to talk to her and she if she is willing to talk to her Doctor . I need this to be in a safe, comfortable environment for her. The part of me that rescued her for years cringes to not immediately jump in, but I think she needs to figure this out on her own, with peripheral support.

So confusing for me. All those nice things, and then she still wants to leave because she feels she has no choice.

Thanks for your comments Zee

Dev

[mdu]

I am thinking you should go ahead and give her Doc this letter. Given her history and the multiple suicide references, it's worrisome.

[PeterV2]

Devaste;
I believe she is being honest here. She has obviously put a lot of thought and self-reflection into this email.
She is very confused and doesn't know how to help herself.
She should find herself a good psychiatrist to diagnose and treat her mental illness. You could even offer to help by saying you just want your children's mother to be happy and healthy, mentally and emotionally.
This email is a cry for help. I don't think she knows where to turn. She's grasping at straws for solutions, but she needs psychotherapy to help her through this. But not just any old shrink. She needs someone particularly skilled to handle these types of problems. I would try to find her a good psychiatrist, maybe even using the email to get a feel for what sort of therapeutic approach potential psychiatrists would use.
Ideations of suicide are not uncommon in depression. She may even have PTSD from that earlier incident with the shotgun.

I think this email is an indication that she has actually done some soul searching. She's not spewing here. I'm somewhat amazed at the lucidity of her self-analysis. However, she is at a loss for solutions. That's where a therapist can help. I would even suggest a SBT just to get her some fast relief.

My WAW also has depression and complex PTSD and our MC is also her therapist so she working on that. I know it's not easy to live with that. My W has also had ideations of suicide. We've been dealing with this for a while now and it does take time. I didn't see a lot of results from CBT. She did respond well to other therapies, but still is in a funk.
I know it's hard not to want to jump in and rescue, but I don't see anything wrong with offering some guidance and showing concern.

[Devaste]

Thanks Peter,

I agree she needs help. It is fairly lucid. Can only imagine that reflective conversation, "so your saying when your around me you feel anxiety, despair, and want to kill yourself?" Maybe I won't start the technique with that conversation

I do take her seriously, and I suspect that she has thought out a lot. It almost feels like a good bye letter. In addition to getting her help, I realize she obviously doesn't feel that way with the OM, which is probably why she wrote this on the way to see him. Actually, very irrelevant. Disregard that, when or where it was written is irrelevant.

I'm looking into the SBT and other help. Also not really sure what I can change to minimize her feeling those ways. I've been trying all sorts of different things.

Thanks Peter

Dev

[Devaste]

So I've been thinking a lot about her email that I posted a few posts back. I will be seeing her tonight. I responded to her by telling her that I would like to respond and discuss it when I was feeling a bit less emotional, and I appreciated her being so open, honest and sincere.

I'm still looking for any more advice, it's always welcome . Starsky, Wonka?, 25yearsmlc? I welcome and value everyone's advice, so insightful to have others not directly involved give feedback!

The email to me shows me how much my W needs to work on herself before we begin to work on a R of any kind. Of course I need to continue my reflective listening, improving my conflict resolution skills, and on being more direct with my communication and less controlling. Super easy! Right?

I'm impressed by her understanding of how we got here. However, in no place is her A mentioned. Obviously, this remains a pretty big issue. Her explanations do not justify an A in my eyes, but her explanations do show an understanding of what has happened.

I need to formulate a plan for some thoughts when I see her to acknowledge the email and appreciate what she wrote, and still keep my detachment.

Ideas?

Thanks as always everyone

Dev

[Wonka]

Hiya, Dev! You called me?

Okay...let's dissect your W's letter to try to see it from her POV.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know this may seem strange for me to write you like this at this time.

I feel like the last several months in particular have been a blur although in many ways so have the last several years.

This suggests she's in a survival mode and barely treading water. That is her perception..right or wrong. It is just how she sees things right now.

You are an incredible person. You are passionate, loyal, trustworthy, committed, kind, and generous. You are an amazing father. And when I say the kids are lucky to have you as their dad, I mean it with my whole heart. I regret not being able to let you share more in their early months & years. That was a mothering philosophy of mine but also a deep unmet need of mine: I had felt so much excruciating pain not being able to count on my parents in my most vulnerable moments that I could not bear to let my own babies feel despair.

It is positive and encouraging to hear W say that she thinks you are a wonderful father. What a gift! From this, it is apparent that W is allowing her FOO issues to spill over into her parenting realm.

This is where you perhaps you can ask open ended questions such as "First of all, I want to say here that I think you are a great mother to our kids. I appreciate you sharing how you felt about your parents and your upbringing in regard to rearing the children. How did that make you feel? Could you please explain this more fully so I can understand you better?" Then step back and listen. Perhaps you can ask if she felt that you did not back her up enough as a mother when it comes to parenting your children. Ask her for specifics on some of the ways you can be more supportive to W in that area.

Whenever I find myself referring to you, it is with pride I have called you my husband. It took months to get used to calling you "my husband" so I imagine it will take months to not refer to you as such. I will always treasure having shared my most intimate moments with you.

She's hearing two voices. One voice says, "Hey Dev is a great husband and father! What are you thinking here??!" and there's the other one that says, "Oh boy...my scorecard is looong and resentments are quite high. I just cannot go back to that dark place again." I think her main focus right now is to feel whole again and not struggle with her 'mental illness' as she says here.

I often wonder "what I am doing" and "why" am I doing it? As I'm sure you among others do as well.

It makes little sense on the outskirts. And it's not fair to you. I see that. And I am deeply sorry.

I am sorry for the unending bitterness in our relationship. The resentment that built over years. I feel like I lost myself in motherhood and wifehood. But I never had much of a "self" prior to marriage. I think I had been on a journey to finding myself around that time but any progress that I'd made was eaten up a little more after each pregnancy to the point of nearly being unrecoverable.

I think it is CRITICALLY important that W feels heard that she needs to discover herself as "Victoria" not as Dev's wife or the mother. Just say, "I can imagine how overwhelming managing a household, parenting our children, cooking, trying to be a good wife. It can feel quite too much, ins't it? I am glad to see that you are trying to step back a bit and re-discovering yourself as "Victoria" and I am all for that personal growth.

I think we have both really gotten to know ourselves and each other a little more throughout the last few months particularly in our sessions with IC

Hey! Dev...this is BIG. In what ways did she mean by this? It seems that during IC sessions that W feels 'safe' enough to open up and share her thoughts with you while in there. Could you please elaborate on this a bit more?

Now that we are both almost at a place of understanding how we got here, it does seem tragic to not "make it work." I say almost because I believe we are still learning about ourselves and each other during each session. And I believe there is merit in that as individuals and as co-parents and hopefully as friends.

It is 'tragic' to W because she CANNOT see or is UNABLE TO see a way or a different way of approaching this M. I am wondering if your IC has any experience in MC or is SBT based on Gottman principles?

I am terrified of losing you.

Yep. Most WAS face this when the real possibility is right in their faces. They don't want to lose their best friends and do miss the essence of the LBS. That is the key right there.

But I feel that we are trapped in a cycle of our most wicked traits always hovering.

Perhaps this would be good to ask W what she meant by this. You don't want to assume here.

And I am mostly referring to the feelings and behaviours of mine that I battle. Although I have wondered lately if the perfection you've felt you had to live up to with your family has been projected onto me.

Whaddya mean here, W!? Do you have a sense of what W is alluding to here, Dev? Do you actually feel this way? Why does she feel or think that it has been projected onto her? I am thinking she's most probably thinking that she HAS TO take this on thus the struggle. That is where I think she may be not entirely correct. It is those silly and pesky assumptions again on her part as well!

A me that does not have the foundation or skills to cope with such high expectations.

What expectations? What are they exactly? Did someone or people communicate them to her? Where did she "learn" this? Is it really you? Your family? Or more to do with her own FOO issues?


Tragically, the feelings I battle most appear before I see you, when I'm with you, or after I've left your company. They are suffocation, anxiety, depression, despair and they lead me spiralling towards only one option.

All of this is all on W. There's nothing you can do to fix this until W seeks help. In one breath, she praises you as a great father and husband....then in the next one she feels "suffocation, anxiety, depression, despair." Heh? Which is which! It is all internalized and you have absolutely nothing to do with this at all.

I can't say it's just the kids, or the house, or you, or life, and how we've structured it. But as scared as I am of losing you, I am more terrified of the suicidal thoughts I have. They are at times relentless.

From this, it is apparent that W is looking at life in a negative vein and world with half-glass approach. She needs to work on changing her own inner thoughts. I'd suggest that you Google the "top 10 books on happiness" and perhaps use that as a springboard in your next IC sessions with W. You can show that you're concerned about W's suicidal thoughts, but not to enable her in continuing those negative thoughts/behaviors.

I am not telling you that for any reason other than it is real and it is powerful and it is unbearable to live with such harmful and intrusive thoughts. And I'm sorry they've become associated with you. I know I've had them before in my life and before I knew you so even though this association is powerful now it is something I feel inside of me that I will be battling for my entire life.

Focus on the quote---"I know I've had them before in my life and before I knew you..." It is abundantly clear that depression or whatever is an ongoing struggle that has absolutely nothing to do with you or the M. It is her coping skills that are the real crux of the problem. She definitely needs to learn better coping skills and what "happiness" means to her.

It is an illness. A silent illness. And probably why I so often wish for another disease. A disease that evokes compassion and sympathy. A disease where people would want to help care for you and your family. Without judgment. Where people would forgive you for not feeling up to attending an event or where they would make you a meal and take your kids out to ease the load. But mental illness does not afford that patience. And it is draining for people to try to understand it.

The one thing that jumps out at me the most about ^^ is that W is most likely feeling judged by others as a mother, sister, wife and feeling that she's not measured up as well as she'd like. Wow. That's a huge burden to carry. She's gotta learn not to care about what others think of her or care how she measures up to others. She's making the best out of her life and that's good enough. It is her negative thoughts that are causing her to walk down a downward spiral.

To be clear, I am no expert on mental illness nor do we know what type W has to date since I have not seen you post any official one from her doctor. So I'd want to be upfront right here.

So I will say that my anxiety, depression, irritability, and feelings of being overwhelmed are symptoms I've lived with for decades but they are now also symptoms of my marriage and my kids and my lifestyle and these symptoms need to be managed like any other illness. I will never be able to live up to your family's expectations.

Again, with that "expectations." Why did she FEEL the need to do so? Where did she get that idea from?? Was your mother critical to her on her mothering skills? There's something going on right there that W feels very acutely and needs to work through those faulty assumptions with the assistance of a qualified professional.

You cannot do this as her H nor can any one in the family do this. It is for W to work through her own IC.

It has also led to my feeling of depletion and inadequacy. I know this is also not fair to you. I realize that they may seem like giving up but I see it as exercising control over one small part of my life that I have control over.

That must be rough to hear, Dev! On the other hand, it may be good for her to step away and reclaim herself as "Victoria" instead of Wife & Mother. How can you support her in that area? Perhaps you can offer to watch the kids while she goes off to, say, pottery classes? Find solutions together.

I am sorry that I can't commit to "making it work". I don't like the thought of you being with other women any more than you do. Especially ones who aren't damaged goods like me. But that also builds resentment and the mantra "it's not fair" I know you want to be with me despite my war wounds but I loathe my body. I am no longer proud of what it accomplished. And that is not fair to you either. Some part of me will hold onto the anger that my body was destroyed in the making and birthing and nursing of three big children. Your body underwent transformations only for the better. And that is not fair.

That will take a while to dismantle with the help of a qualified professional. I would imagine she's done this "internal dialogue" of self-hatred over a period of years. I am wondering how old your wife is now? Sometimes when women age...they are confronted with the loss of their youth, their beauty, their vitality...etc. So it can be a sobering experience for women in general.

I've also come to another epiphany in the last little while. And that is since I loathe myself so much in your presence I loathe you for having loved that person. Even if it's not those qualities that you love. Obviously! But you accepting those parts of me hasn't made me overcome them, rather they surface more frequently. This might be a topic for our next session with FT


Applaud W for this epiphany. It makes me wonder if she's fearful of accepting unconditional love from you as she may not have received it from her parents; therefore, she may feel that she does not deserve or learned to accept unconditional love from you. Hmmmmmmmm......

Anyhow, I am sorry for how this happened and how I've handled so much of it. You deserve so much better. And you will find it. I have no doubt. And maybe one day that person will even come to see that despite the unforgivable nature of what I've done, she is lucky to be with the person & partner it helped you become.

Tell her that it must hurt to struggle so much and you hope for her to find happiness. She's wanting to reject you FIRST before you reject her. She cannot handle rejection...nor does it very well at all. So she would rather make this first move and fast! I think it has been the running thread in her life based on what she wrote about her FOO issues here.

xoxo
WAW

[Wonka]

Dev,

What are your thoughts and perspective on this ^^? We look forward to hearing back from you.

[Devaste]

Wonka,

Thanks for answering the call bell! Wow. Great analysis. I've got lots to comment on and fill in some holes. Really appreciate the response and I've gotta wrap up a few patients here but hope to be able to post in the next few hours. This job things tends to cramp my response time

Cheers and thanks again,

Dev

[GoatGal]

Wow. Wonka.

Where do I get that some of that candy?

Awesome réponse.


(And... auto-correct made me speak French. How cool is that?)

[Wonka]

Where do I get that some of that candy?

Smarties.

Merci.