I love sex. I think in retrospect I stayed in past relationships sometimes too long because I had a good sex life. Not crazy sex, not sex every day (usually once or twice a week), but I felt wanted.
I had that with my now wife, too. When we were dating, the sex was great. She initiated it sometimes, and I'll never forget the night she asked me to stay over (I didn't that night but did soon after). Right before we moved in together, she surprised me in lingere on Valentine's Day in our new house. She had no idea I had a ring and in 3 weeks would propose.
I knew sex was important enough to me and a relationship that I needed to be certain of having a healthy attitude towards a good sex life. I had that with my girlfriend, and I feel so alone with my wife.
I feel like maybe it SHOULD be over if sex has to be convinced upon one member? I've had relationships where the love was almost totally gone but the sex was still there, but never where the love was stong but the sex and desire for me was gone----it's not that I wouldn't expect it to hurt, but that I never expected it to be this way with my now wife, my first wife.
I'm an artist. I'm a lover. I don't like talking about myself, it sounds egotistical, but I'm a romantic----I cook for my wife, I'm actually the "main" cook, I buy her flowers, I kiss her neck and arms and hands and send her a cute message every day at the time of our first kiss, I deliberately try to keep things fresh, I clean the house (albeit I'm more into the house being clean than she is), I care for the dogs, I support us financially (her first new car, bills, rings, honeymoon, rent), take her to dinner often (and often dress nice in a suit which I like to do anyway), I am clean and handsome and not overweight by any means. I TRY to be prince charming, and I believe that only happens by deliberatly making efforts to do things, buy things, and be unique about showing love.
When her friends say things like, "Wow that was the nicest thing I've ever heard or seen! Does he have a twin?!," it actually stings because it's like I can see other people want what she has but I'm not truly happy or feeling wanted anymore.
I love my wife. But she's always too tired. She doesn't send me cute messages. She NEEDS to be touched, and while I'm VERY touchy-feely, including in public, it's more of an issue when I don't (this morning I went to hang my robe up without hugging her, next thing I know she says she's "disappointed" and how can I not understand how tired she is?)
Here's the thing----she used to want me. I think no matter how tired you are or how busy you get, if you want someone, eventually you show it---you need it to.
Just to get this part out of the way, it's not that I don't satisfy her. Sometimes I'm surprised when she says how many orgasms she has but I just like to be sure.
But I'm always the one to initiate it. Always. And it's gotten to the point where I feel worse afterwards because I don't think she wanted to. The last time we made love, I can't remember, maybe a month ago, definitely before I made bacon-wrapped lobster tails and bought her favorite flowers (daisies) and cleaned the kitchen from top to bottom while she slept past noon. I know it might sound like I'm saying I "expect" something from it, but all I really mean to say is I feel like I can't tell her how sad it makes me that she no longer WANTS a physical relationship with me now that we're married.
I've read the things here and other places about what to do. I get that a man can't expect a woman to find him attractive if he's not being romantic, or that women need touch that's not sexual. That doesn't help me---I'm deliberately better than other men at all of those things, particularly when it comes to being original about those things. I read things like, "write her poetry," which I do, not to mention painting for her, or "send cute messages" (again, 11:11), or kiss her without expecting sex (every day, many times), or hold her hand or listen to her or sit with her or spend time together.
Frankly, I think we're spending too much time together. I know this is going to sound selfish, but the balance is all on her side-----I don't love TV, but I watch it with her a lot, I barely see any of my own friends but her friends have become like family. She says she is tired, falls asleep at 9 PM sometimes...but when she's out with her friends (including me) she can "party" well past 2 AM and be loud and wild, no problem.
She's dynamite. Part of me feels like what if this wasn't a problem for US, like if all 3 parts of love (mental, spiritual, physical) were all satisfied for me, just one of them somewhere else? Who would be hurt? I don't WANT that, but the fact that I've even thought of that makes me just plain sad. My wife wants me in every way, including physically, just not SEXUALLY-physically? She has lingere I can't ignore the other men who have seen her in that I haven't, and I can't escape the stories from her past relationships, like having sex with another man in a car, or even at a hockey game in the stands, or in the lake, or on the beach, or all of these things I feel like I don't get...but I get to pay the bills?
She's happy. She's very happy. I do the things she likes AND needs, including physical touch. She also doesn't have body issues, almost to a fault (she'll walk out of the bedroom naked and forget her 23-year-old sun is there, with or without his friends), sleeps naked, etc. We don't want kids, she's not able to have them----she had cancer a few years ago and went through menopause, however note she had several relationships (including with me) years afterwards with an active sex life, perhaps more so without the risk of getting pregnant. She's super positive, bubbly even, happy. I'm confident that I make her happy, and she says so herself. I'm exactly what she wants, and I'm not happy anymore.
But I don't know what to do. I've mentioned the sex thing, like I've read here to do, but it became a bigger problem, like she doesn't know it hurts me so much but I have read I shouldn't just plain tell her it does, nor would I want her to have sex with me just because I find her so attractive and I ahve lots of energy and want to have sex with her.
I've been looking at counselors, but I found out just today my insurance doesn't cover them. However, a caveat here, part of me feels like if sex has to be created on one end, that's just plain not what I want. I want to be wanted. Other women want me! And it feels good! My wife wants me...to be her husband and hug her and kiss her so she knows I'm there and all. If I don't, I'm in trouble. I've never once denied her sex.
A few weeks ago, I felt "lucky" she was drunk enough to be turned on enough for sex. She fell asleep while I was giving her oral sex.
Someone said, they've seen us together and how I treat her, and she's probably cheating. I understand the idea, but she's not cheating. I promise. She wouldn't do that, and frankly doesn't have time.
I've read about how just being physical with your wife when she's not feeling like sex can help her feel like sex. It just doesn't seem to work, plus it's kinda missing the point that for me it's not JUST about sex; it's also about being wanted, like her reaching in to pinch my butt in the shower or something, anything, really other than frequent physical touch that is ALWAYS non-sexual.
My parents are almost 70 and they have more sex. My brother was having more sex in the middle of a divorce. I feel like I'm not inherently doing anything wrong to make her not want me, or even that she doesn't want me, she just doesn't want sex, no matter what. We have toys, we have lubricants, we're good when we have (had?) a sex life. She always thinks it wasn't that long ago, but a month IS a long time for me, and the bottom line is it hurts regardless because it's not about the amount, it's about the need.
And the bottom line for me is I don't know what to do. I don't know how selfish to be. I have read here to not bring it up all the time, to keep doing ALL the things she wants and needs, which I sincerely feel like I do-----but here's the catch----I feel like I'm lying to both of us by keeping quiet about it UNTIL we figure it out. Like, I have to grin AND bear it until we get into counseling, or whatever the next step is.
Yet I feel lonely right next to her in bed. She's always too tired. She's said it's better in the mornings instead of at night like I like it because she's tired at night (frustrating when she's up past 2 AM though), but we've tried that and she also likes sleeping past noon (I don't, but also have to get up with the dogs regardless).
I know I'm talking too much, I just kinda feel like I've read so much and can't really relate to most of the things I've read. If I was ugly, or didn't pay bills on time even once, or didn't clean/cook/paint/write/care/caress for her, I would feel like I truly have another thing I can fix to try first.
Instead, I feel alone and out of options. Part of me feels like maybe I was wrong about the two of us, and the other part KNOWS if she was still into me sexually the way she was before I proposed things would be so much more immensely inspring and happy for me, and that she would want that FOR me, too. We've not even been married a year. She knows it's a problem, so I feel reluctant bringing it up again for the risk of making it an issue or turning sex into an obligation in EITHER of our minds for her.
It feels like everything in her life is good and she has energy for all of it EXCEPT sex anymore. She has energy for work, for her friends, for the dogs, I dunno. Sex is SO inspiring to me. It's important enough that I made sure I married someone with great sexual compatibility that I thought would be long-lasting. Instead, I've had relationships with women I wasn't in love with that lasted years longer, in part because our sex life was good.
I'm TERRIFIED counseling won't be the answer and the truth is I feel selfish--------if she never gets her appetite for sex (with me) back, I don't want to be married to her, and it makes me feel terrible to think that way but I learned most of all from her and her cancer that life is too short to be unhappy. She's happy. I'm relentlesly confused, guilty, uninspired, and yet continuing to meet her needs, including her physical ones.
At what point does a husband love himself enough to do something else about it if it won't change? I'm more miserable than I feel like I should be, but I don't think me trying to be ok with no sex or once-a-month sex is ok----------I want to be wanted, and I want to be with a woman again who WANTS to be wanted the way I'm so passionate about.
Why do friends say she's cheating? What do they know that you don't?
So, you are doing everything you know to do romantically and physically. It sounds as if you may be smothering her some. If it's all about "her" (friends, time, interests, etc.) then maybe you need to reconnect with your own friends and start spending time with your own interest, doing what you enjoy doing.
I applaud your efforts, and I understand how it must feel to a newlywed (b/c I experienced something as a newlywed also). It does need to be resolved ASAP, or it only snowballs into larger problems.
I'm not sure what advice you are referring about not talking to her about it. She does need to hear you concerns, and if she refuses to try help this situation, then I suggest you let her know that you won't accept living out the rest of your life like this. B/c if you've been M less than a year, and if there are no physical problems (or something else), it will get much worse very rapidly, IMO.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
First, I'm 35, she's 50. That might sound like the outlier, but trust me, if you heard her laugh you'd swear she's 25----she's bubbly, even. She can stay out past 2 AM hooting and hollering with her friends----she's the loudest in the room, she just lights it up. I've always been attracted to women older than me, and I'm relentlessly attracted to my wife. Frankly, I felt like I hit the jackpot.
So there's an age gap, but I have a hard time believing the difference between 49 and 49-and-a-half is the passion she had vs. how I feel now.
To answer your question, it's only one person who thinks she's cheating. She's not cheating; I think that person said it strictly because of the way I described the situation and her past experience, but the logic made sense-----I give her 2 of her 3 needs (mind, spirit, body), the other one she gets elsewhere, that's why she's perfectly happy AND doesn't want to have sex with me, just touch, talk and time.
Most of her friends think I'm the perfect guy. Probably dozens have said things to me like, "she deserves a guy like you after what she's been through with her past relationships and cancer. You are a blessing, thank you for making her so happy"
The other day we were working backstage at a music festival---she is the entertainment director so I give my weekend to it for her, no questions asked. I kissed her on the back of her neck in front of her friends and said, "Hey, Miss South Carolina," something like that Her friends gasped, cackled, saying how I'm the sweetest guy. They go nuts for how I treat her. Nuts. One of them asked if I had a twin. Perhaps ironicaly, I do have an identical twin. I think many women want a guy like me, including my wife!
But they're all having sex with their husbands anyway?
Except me, that is.
I don't mean to sound like a push-over---I'm independent, I write for a few magazines, do art shows, have a big social group, separate hobbies like guitar, etc. I just want to spoil her most than I think most husbands do. I want her friends to be jealous because I think that's what she wants, too, and she does seem to enjoy that part, posting pics of meals I cook, notes I write, paintings I give her, etc.
I talked to her about it last night. She didn't get it. And I became weak, broke down. She thinks I'm saying she's inadequete. She thinks the sex is enough. I'm going to be blunt here; once a month is not enough sex for me, never mind that it's not simply about intercourse.
I tried to keep it in for so long. I don't know how I became this man she needs so much but doesn't WANT.
When we talked before, she said she wanted me to take care of the lawn. Done. And the dogs. Done. Every single day. She sleeps in, I'm up at dawn. I'm not sure how to handle anymore her saying she's "tired" when she gets more sleep than anyone else I know.
But I know it hurts me deeply.
However, after talking last night I feel like now it's worse, like there's another grudge against me, like she can't get to the empathy part and understand that it's not just about me. She said I'm blowing it out of proportion; I said it may be more serious than I'm able to convince her of.
You suggest I need to give her the ultimatum. But she will take that to heart. To "let her know that you won't accept living out the rest of your life like this," she will respond, "is that what you want, to leave?" She's very bad at forgiveness, harbors grudges against people for years, including now me too for things like talking about this the way I did last night (I was compelled to bring it out but broke down eventually instead of being 100% strong).
It DID work before, perfectly, the way I wanted it to and never dreamed of actually having. I'm convinced it's possible to be back to that, particularly since this change happened in less than a year, and without kids being involved in the mix like I hear in so many other stories.
But I don't know how long I can wait, or how long I should TRY to wait. I learned most of all from her that life is short----cancer nearly killed her long before we met, and she lives like there's no tomorrow...just not physically the way she did with me anymore.
I think she'll try, but not enough. I don't think she really knows how, to be honest. I think she'll go to a doctor and ask why she's tired, not why she doesn't want to be sexual with me anymore the way she was so long before we met.
And that makes me feel selfish. It makes me feel like a bad person that sex is that important to me, but then again I knew that beforehand---our sex life was so good that I knew that part that was so important to me was there already. And now it's not, and I don't want to live like that, yet I'm scared of the reality that there may be nothing I can do. She's stubborn, and not good at empathy (she drives fast through the neighborhood but swears at the top of her lungs when she sees another car driving almost as fast as she does).
I know I'm talking a lot, but I keep reading to be patient. I am patient. I am caring. But I feel like I'm LYING keeping this inside because it hurts so bad every day, and another month IS too long to live like this. I don't deserve it, as hard as it is to say that about myself.
So, you are doing everything you know to do romantically and physically. It sounds as if you may be smothering her some. If it's all about "her" (friends, time, interests, etc.) then maybe you need to reconnect with your own friends and start spending time with your own interest, doing what you enjoy doing.
I hear you. I do.
But she asked to spend more time with me. I listened to what she wanted, know what I mean?
And the thing is, the time we spend together IS great. We're newlyweds, after all. I LOVE her. I wasn't spending "enough" time with her before, now I feel it may be too much even though it's what she SAYS she wants. It's not every hour of our spare time, but again, I do try to spoil her.
Besides, we have so many of the same friends. We have a large social group----I surprised her for her 50th birthday last month with probably 25 friends waiting for her at the tables outside at a nice restaurant. I think socially, we're pretty good.
And I'm doing the things I like...except sex! Which I LOVE. I don't understand AT ALL how that passion went completely-one sided-----when I do come on to her sexually she likes it, she giggles, etc. It's only when it might lead to sex that I get turned down with "I'm too tired." I got a rain check when she said she was going to take a shower the other day, which we used to do a bit.
I'm afraid I know that check won't get cashed.
I do hang with my friends, even took a weekend camping trip with friends from out-of-state like we used to every year, just the guys.
I feel like she holds a grudge. I'm not perfect, and while I've never done anything severe we have fought a few times. However, I think she holds on to that hurt. That's all I can figure. And yet, I DO make her happy? I don't know.
I'm afraid people will think I'm leaving something out. I'm not. I'm more afraid that it's worse than I think; that I'm already doing everything right that I could have been doing wrong like other guys (and gals) I've read about here, and it's not enough. I CAN'T change her, but I can't convince her to try to change herself FOR ME AND THE MARRIAGE without holding a destructive, resentful grudge against me.
We had a fight again last night. I never got angry, but I don't know how to not call it a fight. I tried to communicate, she instantly shut down, so then I tried to apologize and that made it worse. "Why do you do this at bedtime," is what she says. She had said a week or two ago she still wants me to kiss her goodnight every night. But last night again she just went ahead and got ready for bed with me in it and without kissing me or asking for a kiss. I asked if she still wanted a kiss goodnight, then the next thing I know she's cold, distant, even asked if I wanted a break.
I don't want a break.
I feel like she's completely unwilling to compromise. I can't get her to put in any effort into keeping the marriage strong.
Like, today, I wish she would try to think positive thoughts instead of harboring this resentment, making it worse in my absense.
Meanwhile, I'm being more patient than I've ever been to not only keep quiet about my feelings and how hurt I feel (not to mention faking feeling good around her the rest of the time), all while my own needs aren't being met at all. It's definitely not 50-50 in our marriage right now, but I don't know what else to do.
I brought home some earrings and a necklace for her yesterday after also scheduling the lawn guy, trying to make an appointment for a personal therapist for me as well as a marriage counselor (which is not covered on my insurance, it's covered on her but she hasn't done anything), ate dinner with her, talked to her, kissed her, hugged her, watched this show she likes called 'Breaking Bad' which she knows I don't love because it's very intense and stressful but we started watching it this weekend for the first time in months. I didn't bring up my feelings. I didn't once try to initiate any sex (it's been a month at least, I can't remember anymore).
How can I convince her to try? Like, marriage is hard----that's what I read everywhere. You have to put in effort on BOTH sides, do things you don't want to do sometimes just for the sake of the person you said you loved 7 months ago. I told her this morning to stay positive. She could barely look me in the eyes. She started crying, which she said was because the dogs are at the kennel to be spayed today. I know that can't be all of it.
I don't know what to do. I CAN'T convince her to try, all while I'm supposed to be patient for another month and not EVER talk about my needs and EXPECT them to not be met? Is that love? Isn't that explicitly too much to ask?
It's June 3rd. I with I didn't have to wait so many days for my posts to show up in this community.
Like, should I stay patient until therapy? I think that makes sense.
But what does that mean? I get that it means keeping my hurt, pain and needs inside completely, but does it mean I act exactly the same at the house? Do I go even MORE overboard than usual spoiling her, or do I hold back on anything despite fear of her treating that as rejection?
Have you thought about flipping the script here. Stop doing all the stuff you do for her. It almost seems like you're her slave or something. How does she treat you, besides sex? Is the relationship good? If you are constantly doing stuff she wants and catering to her and always asking for sex and she still rejects you... well you've made it too easy for her. She knows she can have you whenever she wants and she might be "subconsciously" testing you to see how poorly she can treat you and see if you still keep serving her. I would shut it down entirely for now.
Grey, I suggest you read "His Needs, Her Needs", it spells out what your going through. Ultimately, for a marriage to work, long term, BOTH partners needs have to be met- including your need for intimate sex. That said, perhaps you are meeting needs of hers that aren't her BIGGEST needs? Going through the book may give you both fodder for discussion. There may be something that you can do that will deposit massive love units, only you are currently ignorant as to what that is.
My sex life in some ways mirrored yours. Once married, I no longer felt "wanted" by my wife. I'd complain, argue, pout and be a little kid about it. The only time she asked for sex was when we were trying to conceive. Like you, I thought I was the perfect husband. I couldn't understand what the problem was, and it upset me. During and after my wife's EA, I learned from her what it was that I wasn't doing that would make her feel more loving. Additionally, and more importantly, I learned what I needed to STOP doing that was causing me to become unattractive in her eyes.
Since I have become more "emotionally intelligent" in my ways, our sex life has been incredible! We have sex 3-5 times a week, half of it initiated by her (I know- TMI). She no longer pretends to be too tired (or whatever else), and we "do it" whenever during the day, not just at bedtime. By the way, one of her biggest complaints in the past was feeling pressured to have sex because she resented hurting my feelings - sound familiar?
Your wife needs to feel a deep love and appreciation for you in order to feel sexual desire for you. Their "appetite" works differently from ours. Read the book and let me know what you and your W thinks. You don't need counseliling, you can do this on your own. Please remember not to allow your feelings to get hurt, or start defending yourself when your wife complains to you or explains what she needs. Listen and improve. That's it.
To be honest, after you get married, your sex life changes. Period.
Add that to the fact that your W is 50 and you are 35, your sex needs are going to be different. She could be going through menopause or just not wanting it as much as when she was in her 30s. That's just life.
Next, your vague definition of what "good" sex is and how you stayed with partners just for the sex alone.
If all you do is revolve your relationship around sex or expecting sex if you do X,Y,Z, then M isn't for you. People will change and a M is much more than just the sex. Sure it is an important part of it, but what if she couldn't have sex any more? You said that you feel that people shouldn't be in a relationship if sex becomes an obligation. But that's what will happen if she can't perform any more.
If you can't handle that reality, I suggest you cut your losses and find a 20 year old who can give you all the sex you want.
Just my humble opinion.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Have you thought about flipping the script here. Stop doing all the stuff you do for her. It almost seems like you're her slave or something. How does she treat you, besides sex? Is the relationship good? If you are constantly doing stuff she wants and catering to her and always asking for sex and she still rejects you... well you've made it too easy for her. She knows she can have you whenever she wants and she might be "subconsciously" testing you to see how poorly she can treat you and see if you still keep serving her. I would shut it down entirely for now.
So be the bad guy?
On one hand, she's only ever dated bad guys, 100% alpha male types who were abusive or didn't give her the things she needed like romantic love/touch.
On the other hand, being the bad guy sounds like a terrible idea.
Here's the thing-----at this point, she feels pressured to do it. I read here about all these women who were having sex with their husbands for years but resented them because they were pressured to do it. But I don't pressure her, or at least I certainly don't beg. I've never begged her for sex, and she's never had sex with me just because I said I needed it.
But since I talked to her about it and how rejected I feel, like many people suggest, she now feels pressured to do it? This morning she said, "I won't do anything I feel pressured to do."
On one hand, I feel pressured to do the lawn----I don't WANT to do the lawn, but if I don't I feel the pressure from her. To me, I consider it one of her needs, so I do it. I don't want to, and I do feel pressured, but I do it to make her happy and for our marriage.
So isn't that the rub? If we ever have sex again it WILL feel pressured to her unless she makes herself understand internally that's not the case...but how can I get her to do that?
Simple. I can't.
I mean, that's the truth, isn't it? She has to do it on her own. I get that. But in the meantime, I'm suffering EVERY DAY. I get rejected every single day----it's not as straight forward as asking for sex and being told no, but rather it's more like she won't do it not because I ask but because she knows I want it. Whether or not she wants it is completely incidental----we had good sex, she was always satisfied, but even if she wants to have sex she won't now explicitly because it's become something that she feels pressured to do?
I'm trapped. Me not mowing the lawn won't help. Me telling her I won't mow the lawn because I feel pressured won't help. Getting to the point of just having sex again seems nearly impossible, but getting to the point of having sex once or twice a week instead of every other month seems insurmountable; it's like a dead end where you can't go any further, you have to turn around, but she refuses to even look.
Meanwhile, everything else is great. We're affectionate, we spend quality time together, I cooked linguine and clams with scallops last night after we met to pick the dogs up after being fixed, then we watched her favorite show, and we touch and kiss...just not sex. She kisses some of her male friends----it's a non-sexual thing, I get that, but it's pretty much the same with me now. I'm a roommate, not a lover and husband. It [censored]. And I'm supposed to just sit and wait and be the nice guy and HARBOR this pain of rejection because if I bring it up it "pressures" her.
