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A Message from Michele
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Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: Wonka] #2502199
10/30/14 02:35 PM
10/30/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 594
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gogofo Offline
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gogofo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Wonka
Bump time ^^^

One thing I'd like to add here is the words "I understand." I've seen far too many newbies throw those words to the WAS only to have them spew more at you and even make them more angrier.

One needs to be extremely careful when using those words because one cannot ever truly understand how the WAS feels. It is just how they feel at that moment and it is as equally valid as yours. It is a minefield and you might elicit an angry response from the WAS when you say "I understand." Most of what I've seen here have almost all resulted in phone hang ups, walking/stomping away, or a torrent of nasty texts.

Proper validating would be to say "I understand" in a different way that shows the WAS that you do hear them. The other ways one can do this are some of the following examples:

"I can see how you would feel this way."
"I can only imagine how difficult this must be for you."
"I didn't realize that you feel/felt......"
"I want to be sure that I understand you correctly...are you saying that xxxxxx makes you feel xxxxx, is that right?"




I completely agree with Wonka about using the phrase "I understand." I think it is patronizing and also could easily be viewed as dismissive of their feelings and emotions. I know I have used the phrase with my kids as an alternative to saying "yes I hear your words, now listen to what daddy needs you to do."

I feel it is impossible to understand just exactly how someone feels, especially a WAS. My W and I were having a relationship talk last night and I had to stop myself a time or two and start my responses over when I caught myself starting to say "I understand."

I feel that my W has gone through multiple instances of feeling, for example, like her opinion does not matter in our marriage. Now I know that I have caused her great pain in this area, but being aware of it for the last couple of months does not mean I can even begin to understand the pain it caused/causes her.

When I did let the words out I would stop and say, "Well, I cannot ever fully understand but I do know that the pain I feel from putting myself in your shoes is great. I can get a sense at just how painful it is for you."

Let them know that you see their pain as real and that you recognize that they are hurting and where these feelings come from. If the person feels it, it is real to them.

I just keep remembering to listen to the feelings and message behind the statements/words, and not get so hung up on the actual words used. When some people are hurting the tend to use "always" and "never" because that is how it appears to them at this point. Don't get hung up on those words. Identify and recognize the causes and source of their issues and pain in your relationship and work from there.

If you start to argue or feel the need to point out "well this one time" or "it wasn't never/always! Don't you remember?" all you are doing is invalidating their feelings. I get a sense that most WAS on this board leave do to feeling emotionally disrespected, unloved, un-valued, etc. Your need to argue or point out what YOU see and the truth will only perpetuate the cycle. What they need is validation and to feel heard and respected. Make this a 180 for the rest of your life, not just with your spouse but with everyone. I think everyone could stand for a little more empathy.

You have both witnessed the same car crash from different sides of the street. Cross the street and stand next to your spouse and begin to get an understanding at just how ugly the view has been from over their. What they find disturbing may not be to you, but let them know you see how their view could be disturbing and hopeless to them.

When I started this DB process I was not much of an empathetic person, and I knew it. After validating and listening and practicing with anyone that I had the chance to while being separated; I find empathetic feelings, validation, and understanding of other people's points of view to start to become more natural.

You already know your point of view, now STFU and listen to those people that really matter to you.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: gogofo] #2506290
11/11/14 02:28 PM
11/11/14 02:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline OP
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Wonka  Offline OP
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I see many newbies fumbling about and stumbling in the dark looking for a way out of this madness. Help is here!!! cool

Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: Wonka] #2506291
11/11/14 02:30 PM
11/11/14 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
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Maybell Offline
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Maybell  Offline
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One of the things people seem to fumble with is when NOT to validate. I'm thinking the reasons to NOT validate are much fewer than the opportunities TO validate, could you weigh in on that?

Thanks!


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: Maybell] #2506297
11/11/14 02:56 PM
11/11/14 02:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline OP
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Wonka  Offline OP
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Hey Maybell,

Sure, will try my best.

As I sometimes say here, inaction is also action. One does not need to take some type of action just for the sake of action or to fill in the void. Silence can be as equally powerful as taking some type of action. It is all ebb and flow like the tide in concert with the various moon phases.

Now as for when NOT to validate, here are some examples that come to mind:

-your spouse is being cruel and behaving like a jackass
-when you don't necessarily agree or share their view(s)
-they are in the entitlement phase in their A's with OM/OW
-they are in the full-on spew rage

It all depends on content and context of the situation on the ground. For instance, when your spouse is in the very early stages of his/her affair where their fog is at its thickest and the dopamine levels are at its highest range, it is VERY, VERY difficult to validate effectively because, in their mindset, you re the EVIL one and nothing you say will get through to them. This is when one drinks the STFU juice in copious amounts.

I've noticed, based on my long experience here, is that one can begin to validate when their spouse begins to voice their confusion or frustrations about the M several weeks/months after the initial BD. Their confusion is a good time to start validating because you've been GALing and staying out of their way. This is when they begin to see internally the contrast between you and their affair partner. Mind you, they'll NEVER voice it during their affair phase because it's akin to admitting that they're WRONG. Not happening!

One only needs to look at Train's threads over in the Infidelity forum to see this interplay quite clearly.

Make sense?

Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: nit84] #2506336
11/11/14 04:26 PM
11/11/14 04:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 3,500
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Maybell Offline
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Maybell  Offline
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Posts: 3,500
I need a proper thread on which to say it, but I really hate the whole idea of cake eating. It's WAY overused around here and it needs to stop. If people would focus more on appropriate boundaries and ordinary kindness it would hardly ever show up.


Me42, H40
D12, S8, S7
A revealed: 7/13
Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15

She believed she could, so she did.
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: Maybell] #2506348
11/11/14 04:39 PM
11/11/14 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
Sonoran Desert
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labug Offline
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labug  Offline
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I have the same thoughts about that phrase.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: labug] #2506367
11/11/14 05:19 PM
11/11/14 05:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 594
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gogofo Offline
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gogofo  Offline
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I thought about "cake eating" early in my situation, but I banned it from my thoughts. I think it incorporates a lot of mind reading and assumptions about the other person.

I think when the phrase shows up it is another way of saying "I feel like I am being taken advantage of and it is hurting me. My S.O. needs to be punished for what I just allowed to happen." This is not your responsibility.

My opinion is that if feel your S.O. is cake eating it is your fault. Set a boundary that protects you from these feelings. Remember you are the only one that you can control, do something about it.


M:34 XW:34
Together: 10y
Living: 9y
Married: 7y
Son:6 Son:4
Separated: 12/28/13
Piecing: 5/2/14
Separated 2nd: 10/16/14
W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14
papers served: 1/27/15
D final: 3/6/15
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: gogofo] #2507023
11/13/14 05:14 PM
11/13/14 05:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,317
Colorado
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Thornton Offline
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Thornton  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,317
Colorado
Hey Wonka!

Just checking in to say hi! I'm doing well! Thanks again for all your words of wisdom when I was in the thick of it!

Hope you are doing well! I still owe you a beer!

Thorn


Me: 40
Her: 40
D (Mine): 16
D (Hers): 8
T: 6.5 years

Bomb: 5/10/2014
She's back: 7/7/2014

Bomb 2: 1/28/2016
She's back: 5/2016

Bomb 3: 4/3/2017
She moved away with SD: 5/27/2017
Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: Thornton] #2507062
11/13/14 07:03 PM
11/13/14 07:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,319
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Wonka Offline OP
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Wonka  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Hey Thor! How are you my friend??! Beer? Nah, amaretto would do quite nicely.


I'm seeing some newbies flubbing it left & right by using the "why do you do this" line. Time for a refresher.

Re: Validation: Cheat Sheet [Re: CaliGuy] #2509023
11/19/14 11:13 PM
11/19/14 11:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,114
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Ggrass Offline
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Cake eating is based in my mind more on being a friend and making their guilt seem less.

My h has the neat plan, I would be his friend we would have a friend r and carry on with our hobby, while he had ow or a serious gf on the side.

^^^^ that would be cake eating. He feels less guilty by offering friendship and still gets the good bits of our r! Um no, I'm not plan b and any new partner would not want me having an ea with my old h.

I couldn't, have my new person do that hence I won't be his friend. Insert crickets Chipping for nearly 9months. He has been shown in a very clear way, I'm gone.

That's more than likely a very clumsy way of explaining it and I'm sure others can do better, but it's just my view. Feel free to clarify or comment


M 46 h54
Both married before
T 11y
Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads!
Ms 18 hs 26
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