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Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: ces67] #2458006
06/06/14 01:47 PM
06/06/14 01:47 PM
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I wanted to ask, what is the role you see for your W right now and why? You always come up against the same thing, she's underperforming and you're unhappy about that.

About seeing a doctor in menopause and getting help. That's often a shot in the dark. Some women can get help, others can't because it's such an individual thing and hormonal balance is so delicate. It's only in the last 50 years that any perimenopausal help has been studied in a real way. Before we were just supposed to suffer through it. We get that, a lot. And then women are whiners when they don't just suffer through it. But I digress, hot button issue for me. Just know that your W may have asked for help and probably got one suggestion. Doesn't mean she got help it or got it in a way that was helpful to her.

I think many people get trapped in bad, dead, non-existent marriages. If you're deciding to stay in this marriage knowing it isn't a fulfilling part of your life, you need to find a way to be happy in it.

Have you guys read the Cloud and Townsend books on Rs?


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: labug] #2458096
06/06/14 06:38 PM
06/06/14 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: labug
Somewhere down the line all this is going to fall into place if you keep doing the work and you'll realize that you are enough. You'll find that living alone doesn't have to be lonely, that a good partner is great but no partner is better than a lousy partner.


Bringing this over from another thread because it struck a chord with me. Didn't want to hi-jack there but also didn't want to lose the thougt

Two initial thoughts:

1. Is this comment about partners a totally binary one - in other words can you have a partner that is somewhere north of lousy by south of good?
2. Or is ^^^ just another rationalization for WAS behavior and maybe indicates fear?

No answers yet, just an initial reaction and more to think about....


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2458723
06/09/14 01:26 PM
06/09/14 01:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 598
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Labug and CES, hope that you both ahd a good weekend.

Thanks for helping firm up the definition and continuing to ask the difficult and insightful questions…

W was at sister’s house this weekend from Sat mid morn thru Sun morn so had some time to think and process some feelings. Below are some thoughts around how I see each of the characteristics given ourt current situation.

I am not exactly sure what actions this will drive to yet, but I feel that having thought through this will be important at some point.

Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains trust,
I don’t feel as much trust as I did before in the so I guess this is a little strained at the moment. I never used to think about or wonder if she was telling me truth, if she was sharing everything with me, never wondered about what she was saying to children when I was not around, etc….

Her sister routinely teaches/allows her girls how to deceive their father and that it is ok to withhold information. We had talked before and agreed that this was not a good approach to parenting but now it feels like W sometimes tries to do the same with our boys on occasion.

Feels to me at times like she is almost competing for their affection and trying to “win” their love – or may maybe trying to lessen some guilt on her part
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains honesty
I have been open and honest about feelings, emotions, what I would like to have etc. than ever before. Used to be kind of “roll with the flow”/defer unless I really felt very strongly about something. Not sure if W is being completely honest or not -
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains openness
on my end I feel that I have been open with W and she knows how I feel about things, I suppose she has been open also in some areas but secretive in others. And if not, given some of the things that she has said done, I am not sure that I am ready for her to be any more open.
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains compassion
I have a great deal of compassion and empathy for what W is going thru – feeling this is one of the large contributing factors to my still standing. Unsure whether she has any compassion for what this experience is creating for me and the boys - or would allow herself to feel it if she did. When asked (many moons ago during beginning stages) she would say it will be tough on everyone but it will be better for all in the end if she is happier….. i.e. kids can’t be happy when she is not and feels this way.
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains intimacy(both physical and emotional)
nothing, zip, nada, nyet
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains affection
unsure, I try to show W some affection in ways that seem appropriate given the situation (being supportive and patient, doing “house chores”, continuing to support financially, making some changes that I think in the past she may have been alluding to, etc…). In her own way she may view some of the things she continues to do as affection (“house chores”, getting things at the grocery store that she knows I like, making dinners, etc…)
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains acceptance of the other for just who they are
right now struggle with being supportive of W as she currently is, I think prior to this accepting of who she was and looked past some of the frustrating characteristics, until this started I would assume that she must have done the same in reverse and then decided she no longet wanted to do that???
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains respect for the needs of the other
unsure, I am working on being respectful of what W says she needs right now (time, space, independence). I don’t feel very respected by W at the moment. Wonder though if part of this is really that I am not respecting myself more and am allowing myself to be treated this way? Similar to how I think my mother treated my father.
Originally Posted By: labug
Love contains patience.
on my end I think that so far I have shown a remarkable amount of patience and restraint, to be fair she has also shown a great deal of patience in not leaving if she truly feels the way she feels and believes that her happiness lies in no longer be M to me.

Apologies for the long post - told you that I had some time this weekend to think & process........


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2459234
06/10/14 03:24 PM
06/10/14 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

Why do I have such a hard time letting go her and moving on? What is about me and my values that makes is so hard for me to move forward down a path of D, etc….???

Seriously, have you seen it be easy for anyone here to let go and move on? smile

For many of us, we see it as a failure and that just can't be! (she said, sarcastically)

For me, I loved my H, although we didn't like each other very much toward the end, and it took him leaving for me to realize how much I loved him and also how unhappy I was generally. I say I loved him but my emotions were so blunted at the time that I questioned if I could or did love anyone. I didn't feel much and what I did feel was best described as despair. That's how deep I was in the hole.

That's why I'm so verbal about honoring emotions (I didn't say acting on them). Once you start blunting one emotion, they all begin to die out.

My unhappiness was all me and my stuff. So I decided to work on it. Others don't.

It's scary work.

Not doing the work doesn't give anyone a free pass on how they treat others.

Quote:
went inside and found that nothing had been started for dinner and kids were saying they were hungry
- went upstairs to find several loads of laundry on the floor in the bedroom along with windows open while A/C was on
So how important is it, really?
I ask that as someone who would have been royally p!ssed about these kinds of things in my previous life.

Now I would either do the laundry or decide it's not that important right at that moment and not let it get to me.

I'd close the windows.

I'd make a plan 1)Tell the kids it's catch-as-catch-can tonight, or 2)Let's order pizza, or 3) Always have a something frozen that's a slam dunk for nights like that, or 4)Breakfast for dinner.

That's you taking responsibility for things that are bothering you.

I'm not a real good dinner planner/fixer. Never have been although I've tried. My talents lie in other areas. I do cook and am pretty good, I just don't like the every night part. :)(side note, I used to beat myself up about this, had a lot of guilt, after all I was raised in the 60s-that's what women did)

My H is also a very good cook and he can plan ahead and make it happen. He's much better at it than I am. S21 also cooks so between the 3 of us we eat every night but it's certainly not my sole responsibility. H and I have had discussions about this and I've said, I don't like that job, I will do it my fair share, but I don't want the full responsibility.

I share this as maybe an alternative viewpoint 'cause we have no idea where your W really is on this. Food for thought, a wider lens maybe for you.

(I have a feeling you're going to be thinking, "So what if I don't want to go to work?")


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: labug] #2459471
06/11/14 01:55 PM
06/11/14 01:55 PM
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Posts: 598
New England Region
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Originally Posted By: labug
Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

Why do I have such a hard time letting go her and moving on? What is about me and my values that makes is so hard for me to move forward down a path of D, etc….???

Seriously, have you seen it be easy for anyone here to let go and move on? smile

For many of us, we see it as a failure and that just can't be! (she said, sarcastically)
Agreed - with the statement and the sarcasm. This is one of the things that sometimes still pops into my head - and I question why do I see it as my failure????

Originally Posted By: labug
For me, I loved my H, although we didn't like each other very much toward the end, and it took him leaving for me to realize how much I loved him and also how unhappy I was generally. I say I loved him but my emotions were so blunted at the time that I questioned if I could or did love anyone. I didn't feel much and what I did feel was best described as despair. That's how deep I was in the hole.
I can sense some of this in W.

She seems to have built a barrier and will not allow anyone inside of it - friends or me..... And even her sister to a certain degree.

She seems to have mastered the superficial niceness, laugh, engagement thing though.

But as you have mentioned, at this point it is her work to do if she chooses. What I have the most control over is me and being patient and supportive if needed.......

And kudos to you for doing the hard work and even more kudos now for taking the time to pay it forward.

Originally Posted By: labug
That's why I'm so verbal about honoring emotions (I didn't say acting on them). Once you start blunting one emotion, they all begin to die out.

Even anger - once a person has figured out how to manage it appropriately.....

Originally Posted By: labug
Originally Posted By: SemperFi00
went inside and found that nothing had been started for dinner and kids were saying they were hungry
- went upstairs to find several loads of laundry on the floor in the bedroom along with windows open while A/C was on
So how important is it, really?
I ask that as someone who would have been royally p!ssed about these kinds of things in my previous life.

Now I would either do the laundry or decide it's not that important right at that moment and not let it get to me.

I'd close the windows.

I'd make a plan 1)Tell the kids it's catch-as-catch-can tonight, or 2)Let's order pizza, or 3) Always have a something frozen that's a slam dunk for nights like that, or 4)Breakfast for dinner.

That's you taking responsibility for things that are bothering you.


Yep, in the grand scheme of things none of them were life altering. Just had piled up so I had to take the all important "Pause" I think you called it in a earlier post.

There was a time many moons ago where I would not have handled it in the same way (read poorly) but now did much of what you indicated above - closed the windows, started dinner, played with the kids for a few minutes and thanked the W for mowing the lawn....

And miraculously, things didn't get any worse and I didn't have to apologize for any of my actions.......

Btw, big fan of breakfast for dinner.....

Originally Posted By: labug
I share this as maybe an alternative viewpoint 'cause we have no idea where your W really is on this. Food for thought, a wider lens maybe for you.

True dat!!!! And not sure it will ever be a top 10 vacation destination.

Originally Posted By: labug
(I have a feeling you're going to be thinking, "So what if I don't want to go to work?")
hah - this is fantastic!! Hadn't thought this in quite a awhile but I think a couple of years ago (very early on in my situation) I actually said something like......

"If you want to change how things are working we can certainly discuss that but you can't just opt out. That would be like me...... " (wait for it...... wait for it....) "quitting my job and not discussing it with you or having a plan. That wouldn't be fair to any of us."

Clearly, how wrong was I about the the inability to opt out.....


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2459540
06/11/14 04:54 PM
06/11/14 04:54 PM
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Posts: 9,676
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Originally Posted By: SemperFi00

Originally Posted By: labug
That's why I'm so verbal about honoring emotions (I didn't say acting on them). Once you start blunting one emotion, they all begin to die out.

Even anger - once a person has figured out how to manage it appropriately.....

Just to clarify, I don't think blunting or ignoring emotions is a good thing. Learning to recognize them, feel them, honor them but not allow them to control us is the key.

Our emotions bring important information to us.

Quote:
Yep, in the grand scheme of things none of them were life altering. Just had piled up so I had to take the all important "Pause" I think you called it in a earlier post.

There was a time many moons ago where I would not have handled it in the same way (read poorly) but now did much of what you indicated above - closed the windows, started dinner, played with the kids for a few minutes and thanked the W for mowing the lawn....

And miraculously, things didn't get any worse and I didn't have to apologize for any of my actions.......

This echoes a lot of my latest post.

Pause may be the most powerful word in our language.

About her opting out...you've opted in (I know, it's shaky at times) and that choice means you'll continue to act with honor and dignity because that's who you are.


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: labug] #2459667
06/11/14 09:06 PM
06/11/14 09:06 PM
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Thanks labug. Appreciate your interest and for saying what you did regarding honor and dignity.


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2460193
06/13/14 09:09 PM
06/13/14 09:09 PM
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Posts: 598
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Haven't posted in a couple of days. Nothing much has changed. I continue with GAL and PMA and W continues her journey.

Last weekend she went her sister's. I stayed at home w/boys - watched a comedy with them Sat night and built a raised bed garden w/S16 Sat aft. Getting the plans and materials for the bed was lots of fun and the movie was good. I really enjoy time with them. W met us at mass on Sunday morning.....

This weekend we have a couple of graduation parties to attend and I am hoping to get the soil in the new bed and some planting done. S16 is at a birthday party tonight for a friend who is moving over the summer. S18 doesn't want to go to the graduation parties tomorrow but I think it will be good for him to come with us.

Golf scramble coming up on the 27th. Annual event to support the local high school football team.

Oh, and the high school coach just called to tell me that he saw S16 in the weight room and that he seems to be growing. Thought that was nice.....

Wish things could be a little better (on the R front w/W) but it's where I am right now.

Stay strong!


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2461529
06/18/14 08:59 PM
06/18/14 08:59 PM
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Posts: 598
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Journaling…..

Last weekend was good

Couple of graduation parties on Sat that we went to as a ‘family’ and it was altogether awkward

Worked with S17 to come to agreement that he could skip the first party (he used to be good friends w/graduate but they moved about 40 minutes away and he hasn’t really seen him in 3-4 years) and attend the second one. He came to party with understanding that I would take him home anytime he was ready –ended up staying for almost 5 hours!!! Yeah for that – he’s very introverted so I think the social aspect was very good for him. And I am very proud of him for going to the party and sticking it out for an extended period of time – he actually had fun although I am sure that is something he hates to have to admit…….

Father’s Day went to church, added the soil to the bed we built last weekend and planted. S16 was very excited and appreciative.

This weekend going on a ½ day Father’s Day fishing trip and have a golf scramble that I am playing in the following Friday.

Nothing much changing w/W. Her fuse continues to be short when things don’t work out (like with the mower, kids not doing what she asks, etc….) and it seems to be almost painful for her to do even the simple things you would do with a roommate (telling them good morning, etc…).

Ugh! I realize that I can’t solve for W but really [censored] to see her continuing to be unhappy……. Maybe she really is depressed but if so I really wish she could see her way to getting some help......

Hope everyone is doing well.


Me-48,W-51
M-22,T-24
S- 18,16,9
Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date
Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch
Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only
Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Re: Trying to save (not sure if broken or bent) p2 [Re: SemperFi00] #2461986
06/20/14 05:16 PM
06/20/14 05:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,676
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It's good that you supported your son and accept him as he is. There's nothing wrong with being an introvert.

Too many people try to change introverts when there is no need to change us. We'll rule the world someday! smile

Great book, Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking


Me 57/H 58
M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13

Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do.
I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering.
Caroline Myss
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