what do I do...

[cq1]

As far as I know, the A has stopped. The OM has apologized and confirmed he was wrong and it will not happen again. It's just confusing as to holding all this inside and W not engaging in building a stronger marriage.

[cq1]

When she goes out, she leaves without telling me anything. I feel that this is disrespectful to me on all levels especially after the fact that I know about the A. Should I feel like this or is this a controlling issue needing to know?

[sandi2]

He took advantage of my W

How so? And who took advantage of her the other times? The problem was there before he ever entered the picture. However, now that he's in your M, it compounds the problem. What has been decided about the foursome friendship? What has been decided about the A?

This friendship the four of you have had is over. His W deserves to know why. Your W should be the one to explain to her friend that she was betrayed, but i doubt she will. I think he should tell his W. It won't save the M, but neither will keeping it hid and pretending everything is still the same between the four of you. Your W and the OM has destroyed the friendship, not whether or not you inform the other W.

I may not be able to tell you what will work to save your M, but I think I can tell you what won't work..........and this behavior from you isn't working. I personally believe women grow dissatisfied when their emotional or physical needs are not met by her H. But there is another one........loss of attraction.

It seems just today I have posted about that subject a lot. It amazes me how the H can't tell, but I suppose I can understand to a point.......knowing how women conceal those feelings so much. However, it comes out in other ways, usually her saying she's not in love with him anymore and has felt unhappy for a long time. She might as well say, IDLY so I'm not responsible for my actions (like turning to another man), and in most cases, she already has OM she's watching.

There was something missing in the MR for her that you didn't see. Spending quality time together, sharing your soul with each other, keeping the romance alive, having fun times, etc. are so important to women. But if she started feeling less attracted to you b/c of whatever reason.....then disrespect would soon follow. B/c a woman will put up with a lot of stuff if she's attracted to the guy.

Just as it is important to the man to be admired, it is important to her to feel the admiration. I believe a woman pushes undesirable feelings down within herself. She will experience sadness, unfulfilled, a lot of resentment, and other negative feelings she knows she shouldn't have if she were happy. It will eventually take over and turn into something very close to disgust......and finally just an emptiness. She can't feel in love with her H!

So you need to start with some basics by becoming a man who can be admirred/respected. Not just as some type of pleaser for her, but for your own self-confidence. You do what you can do to improve yourself, and therefore the chances for attraction, and the rest is up to her.....in that area. You can't force her to feel what she doesn't.

Physical appearance is important, of course, but for women it is lower on the list than for men. Other things about the male is what attracts her. Mostly his manliness and take charge attitude. Any time he starts showing signs that resemble a female, it kind of sets her back. I mean, yes we say we want a sensitive man who will understand how we feel......but at the end of the day, we want the mister and not a sister.

[cq1]

Sandi2, first and for most...a BIG Thank You! The things you said are absolutely right on. Honestly, each and every statement you made I have thought about before I even posted on the forum. With the research I have made gave truly, gave me these insight. Now, you come along and justified a path that I must take for the best chance of saving my marriage and/or myself to be a better person for the future. Do again , many many thanks.

Friendship amongst us four is damaged, you're right. What's been going on is that I am left out of the circle, but hold the evidence to break it all up. Om and my w of course wants to keep the harmony and friendship with OM wife. And I am afraid that exposing it to her will also ruin my chance of DB.

So my plan now is to better myself and gain the desirable attraction back for myself (like Starsky says...make my own cake and hope she will be the frosting if she chooses).

My problem is, I keep slipping back to being the good guy and pleasing her. What happened in our marriage that I see that brought us to this situation is... I focused my strength on our business thinking this was what would please her. I turned a struggling business into a successful one. Thus bringing us to a more secure aspect in life financially. During this process, I know now that the romance part was not ignited to the fullest as it should of always been. But hey, I explained to her that infidelity is something I can never deal with and here I am dealing with it. Time and patience is what I picked up from wise DB ers and am practicing this now. You see, I'm a fix it kind if guy. Tried fixing M and wanting her to engage right away was what I was chasing in the beginning. By doing this I realized it did push her away because she's telling me she cannot breath. Since then, I stepped back and am living a life of limbo with emotions of anger, hurt, love, betrayal, being a doormat, fear, disrespected, confusion, broken trust, and extreme stress of worrying that creeps up and causes me to act out of emotions. Happens a few times a week. a total mess I am. She's important to me and that's why I'm here.

I hate coming home to just a house. Who wouldn't.

My confidence is lost.

Walking on egg shells. Is that what they call it? Because when W is around I act as if I am fine and things are fine. When inside, I'm dying. Try to say and do the right things all the time.

What gets me is, how the OM and my w can hold the guilt and not expose to her (OM wife and w best friend(they're like sisters)). I'm just on the side watching all this. It does make me feel terrible, cause her I am just as low as them holding the truth from someone dear to me.

[cq1]

How so? And who took advantage of her the other times? The problem was there before he ever entered the picture. However, now that he's in your M, it compounds the problem. What has been decided about the foursome friendship? What has been decided about the A?

Let me answer your questions here.

Om is a mutual friend. I looked up to him and so did w. he was the one I first consoles when my wife mentioned D. I Consoled with him many times before I found out about the A. He always said to me I will help get you two back together again the best he can. He took advantage of her because he knew how vulnerable she was in this fragile state of M.

There were no other times.

Friendship amongst he and I are no more. But amongst them three are still intact.

A is over per they say. I believe it but do t trust it. W goes over and hangs out with OM wife and I know for sure that the OM will be there at times. And yes, I feel extremely uncomfortable with it because I don't trust them completely. Drives me to the edge of anger. But I hold it in. W gives me no remorse. Why is this so Sandi? And she does not help in anyway to ease my emotions. I know I know, "not in love with me". Lastly, she's still asking me for time and space and has not brought up the D. But I tell you, her actions make ME think of wanting a D. But I love her...too much.

[pilot]

W gives me no remorse. Why is this so Sandi? And she does not help in anyway to ease my emotions.

That my friend is the $50million dollar question every LBH struggles with every day. Her mind is just not in a place where she feels she was wrong in doing what she did. It will be in time. Maybe next week, next month, or in the next year or so. Eventually she will have a day when she realizes what she did was wrong. Its just not today, so we as LBH have to not dwell on it and worry about the things we can control...ourselves.

[cq1]

Thanks pilot.

[sandi2]

Here is why I asked who took advantage of her the other times:

I got the ilybinilwy. Not once but at least three times in our 7 years. We've been together for 21 years.

You said that you had turned to OM this last time she gave you the ILYBINILWY and he said he'd get you two back together. So was he offering counseling or emotional support to her and it turned into an A, or was the A going on before you talked to him? Do you know?

I believe people can be taken advantage of when they are emotionally weak. When a woman feels "done" with her H and the M, she also feels empty & dead on the inside. It is very hard to live day in and day out with that kind of void. Many people find some way to fill the void and often times choose unhealthy ways of escaping the reality within their four walls at home.

The best information I received was learning about the PEAs. Whether it's an emotional or physical A, chemicals are released and floods her brain, making her feel very much the way one feels when they first fall in love. According to research, science has proven this chemical is strongly addictive. Now you may know all about it, but I didn't.

Being so strongly addicted, the affair partners will return to each other by some means of contact (sight, voice, email, text, etc.) and it is like getting a "fix" for their craving. It is the excitement that rushes over them and gives those "feel good--in love" emotions.

Your M can't be fixed as long as she has OM in her head. And she's not going to get him out of her head as long as she goes to hang out at his house. There are facts you have to know.....and this is one of those facts. The A will not be over until she breaks her addiction. In order to break it, she has to have no contact with OM whatsoever. Even going to his house when he's not there can trigger those chemicals b/c the environment is his domain.

While going through the no contact, she will feel the emotional withdrawal, and it's very difficult. But it's not impossible. It will take several weeks of hard withdrawal and then probably months until completely getting through it. And this is with her cooperation!! It's not something you can force her to do if she won't agree. You can't control her. And that is another fact.

You can, however, have boundaries. You set them to protect yourself.......not to punish or control her. Just as you have personal boundaries you do not allow another person to cross and disrespect or harm you......you have to have them in relationships. It is important you think this out. Only you know what you can live with or can't live without. Only you know your deal breakers.

I do not suggest throwing ultimatums at her. They seldom work with a WAW in an A. Whatever you do tell her.......you had better be prepared to back it up! You could yell and bark and threaten, but if there is no consequences for her ......it is blowing in the wind. Powerless! So look up relationship boundaries and think before you speak. Never tell her anything expecting a desired reaction. It will backfire.

You asked why she has no remorse. One reason, I believe, is b/c of her emotional state before the A. I think women tend to blame their H for their unhappiness in the M. She usually holds a lot of resentment and bitterness. That works just like a cancer. It takes a lot to heal from it. Remember, she felt completely done with you......so why (in her mind) should she feel sorry that another man made her feel good. She doesn't want to save your M. That is another fact. You cannot look at her and wonder why she doesn't feel like you do toward the M or the A. She just doesn't. I would bet my life that if she was made to admit.....she would feel more guilty over betraying her friend than you. Cold hard fact. She doesn't feel she owes you. She feels she was entitled to some happiness. LBH's don't understand and get hurt that she doesn't apologize. Well, she simply doesn't feel she should have to do it b/c she had been checked out a long time ago. Her resentment is too strong. There is no mystery to it, guys. You think she is the girl you married, but she isn't. Her feelings are not the same.

Number one priority is to take care of yourself. Go to the doctor if you can't eat or sleep and depressed. Get a lot of exercise. And this is very important.......get a life outside of that house.

Next, set personal goals. Make them about you......not her. Break it down into small steps. What do you need to do to improve yourself.

Get a calendar and work it. Have every week planned with some GAL activities, even though your heart won't be in it at first.

Have some source of emotional outlet. Something to help rid the anger and pain. Whatever you can do physically to work it out.

Have a source of inspiration. Everyone needs soul food. If you know your source, get as much as you can.

[cq1]

Sandi2, Thank you again. The cold hard facts you mentioned are hard to swallow. But I do agree, though it tears me up inside.

Last night, I went to her and asked her I needed some direction because it's been 4 months now since I confronted them. I wanted to know if we can both put positive effort and work towards building our marriage to be happy and strong. She didn't want to answer yes or no. She mainly said, she's afraid of me at this point. A few weeks back, I lost my temper and pulled the curtains down in her room. At that time, the anger in me was immense, and I was on my own trying to control it but it got the best of me. I also said hurtful things. It was wrong, but since, I explained to her that my emotions were and are still unbalanced. I apologized. It's a different part of me that she's never seen.

Today is fathers day. I reminded her, she said happy fathers day and that was it. No plans for dinner or spending the day together. We have a few dogs and regard them as our kids. She also left again without telling me. It hurts Sandi.

[Wonka]

cq1,

You wrote:

Friendship amongst us four is damaged, you're right. What's been going on is that I am left out of the circle, but hold the evidence to break it all up. Om and my w of course wants to keep the harmony and friendship with OM wife. And I am afraid that exposing it to her will also ruin my chance of DB.

Nope. It will have the opposite effect. Yes, DBing is counterinituitive. You think by exposing the A to the OM's W that your DBing will be shot. Not the case at all. You are informing OM's W so she is aware of what's truly happening and allow her the opportunity to work on their marriage. It also gives you the same opportunity.

Affairs thrive on secrecy. When you turn up a rock in the ground, you see all the crawlies running around trying to get back into darkness. Trust me...when the exposure happens, your W and OM will be very, very mad and try to put the affair back into the darkness. Trouble with that plan is that it is ALREADY exposed.

A is over per they say. I believe it but do t trust it. W goes over and hangs out with OM wife and I know for sure that the OM will be there at times. And yes, I feel extremely uncomfortable with it because I don't trust them completely.

Trust your own gut instinct for they're almost always right. Whatcha gonna do about exposing the affair? The choice is up to you. I've read that Starsky and Bond exposed their WAW's affair and they are now reconciled with their wives. It can be done and it has been done quite successfully.

Drop the fear. You can do this. It's up to you.