Things I would like W to know, that she doesn't seem to:
"If we ever decided to work on our M, you know we wouldn't be going back, right? We'd be trying to find a place that worked a whole lot better for both of us."
"If we ever decided to work on our M, I'd like us both involved in the day to day finances so we can budget things like nights out, family vacations and other things that matter."
Those are both good items. You should be prepared to present them if and when your wife gives you the "what will it take?" talk, along with any other "dealbreakers"/boundaries/conditions you would have at that point.
Sandi, Starsky, I am laughing out loud. Thanks for that.
No point at all, really. I was just reviewing to see if there was anything else I could 180 and two common misconceptions in why she is "not sure" about us are: "not sure if I can go back" and "finance control", so I figured I'd track them.
And as I wrote them I thought, "Starsky would say these are perfect for the 'What will it take' talk."
W tossed and turned and whimpered and sobbed all night. Then this morning she actually started a conversation with me about D12 while I was brushing my teeth, which is just uncharacteristic.
Call me a mind reader, but I'm pretty sure it means she had a date with OM yesterday. And call me a mind reader again, but given what she said last time she broke it off, she knows it's going nowhere, messing with her head, and screwing up her job, but she's addicted. And I think she's already kicking herself that she's back there yet again.
I've seen this movie before, and this time I'm just going to put my feet up and eat popcorn.
To hear W talk, she is REALLY done with us. Litany of reasons. Even if she can't have OM, she's talked herself out of me. She's even talking about "faking it until she makes it" to cake eat until she is ready to go. She's scheming about being nice.
And her friends all tell her not to worry about the kids, they'll be fine. Interesting too, that as she tells the story to each friend, and they validate, the story gets worse the next time it's told. For example, as happy as I was that she got her job, the way the story is told is that I was p1ssed because she hadn't told me she was going to do it. And she's telling more and more friends quite openly, so she's pretty convinced she's done with me no matter what. The furthest thing from her mind is trying to repair anything. She has noticed my changes, says they'll be good for the next person.
One friend is encouraging her to have discussion with OM about his intentions - where does he see himself in 1 year, 5 years. Like he's going to be truthful. Either way, her eyes have been opened and she's done with me. Her T told her so.
This will be truly remarkable if this turns around. I know I'm not supposed to believe any of this, but it sounds pretty convincing from a lot of different angles. Most of the things involve romance, intimacy and going on dates, so the longer we're apart, the more ingrained they become, and there's no way to address them.
And she is still totally convinced that I don't know anything about what's going on. Too bad confrontation doesn't work. Can't see anything changing without some catalyst.
Time to really move on as if this is over, and decide how long I can live like this. I'm good until after Aug vacation with kids. Oh, and she isn't coming on that, but she's afraid to tell me.
W thinks she is pulling this off, and that I don't know about A, and she is now coming up with deeper schemes to milk the situation and make her A easier, like trying to be nice to me so that I don't think anything is going on. This is crap.
Some of her complaints about us are valid - like we stopped going out and socializing, loss of romance, etc. We both got caught up in stuff, took things for granted, drifted, and internalized instead of talking. She really feels she tried, and I'm sure I missed it. I was definitely zoned out for a while. I feel I have addressed what I can, but the rest just can't be touched unless we are both trying. And she's not there, so I can't do anything about that. Accepted.
So I have this question. Is it better for me to let her continue to think she is successfully keeping A secret, or better to let her know that unless she tells me she has stopped A, I will assume A and act as if that is the path we are on, and that this can't go on forever?
Is it just trading pressures? Now she has the pressure of trying to keep A underground, but also the thrill that comes with that. If I made my position clear that I am assuming A, she would lose the pressure of hiding it, and might start worrying about losing plan B. Or is this just open marriage with a clock threat? Seriously, I wonder if it is better for her to think one thing or the other.
The thing is, some of the things she plans to do, like sever her phone from the family plan under the guise of "business phone" don't make economical sense, and if the only reason for her to do it is to keep her calls secret from me, then why bother. I mean, let's cut the crap here. Do I want to pay more for this delusion? So there are a bunch of these "crafty" moves coming my way that are going to have to be dealt with.
And I so want to use the opportunity to just state a few things. Not that she will really listen, or that they will change her mind, but just that they might clear up a few things that she really has got wrong. For example, she keeps saying that "H wants to go back" when really we could only hope to see if there even exists a forward path.
And when she says she backed down and internalized instead of expressing what she wanted, she calls that "settling" and I'd like her to know that neither of us should ever "settle". We would have to say what we want, and the other person might not be up to it.
Am I foolish to think that she can even hear this somewhere in the back of her mind, and that someday, if she ever changes her thinking, it might mean something? I'm not trying to tell her what to do, or even what I want to do, just laying out the only choices I see and what I think they mean.
I guess it's one thing for me to be patient, but quite another to be played while being patient. For people with the WAW that walked, this is all out in the open, you know there's an A. For me, I have her still at home trying to behave as if everything is sort of normal, and the A is a big secret, and it just isn't, so why are we playing that game? I used to think that it was because she would never be comfortable admitting A, but now, there's just no getting around it.
Now Sandi may come and tell me that WAW will hear this as me trying to tell her what to do. She has a head full of OM and doesn't want to hear me talk needs. I know she does for a fact. And Starsky may say that these are just more words, and only appropriate for the "what would it take..." moment.
And maybe they are right. I think the difference is that I'm letting her know my assumptions so there's no delusion. There are two stark paths; we're on one or the other. There is no limbo. And one path doesn't have me paying for new phone accounts.
And I am moving on. I guess I'd like her to understand my reasoning, and that she has something to do with it and some choice in the matter, rather than just have her wonder why I'm out without her, or call me an a$$hole that's trying to make her life miserable because he never loved me, etc. etc.
---- acknowledge that she is angry, accept my responsibility
no easy decisions at this point: MC path - no going back to what was, that didn't work [her misconception] - determine needs and see whether they can be met [W's big on "needs" talk] - no settling - be clear on needs and get agreement ["settling" is her word] - requires leap of faith: --- that I can meet her needs. --- that she can get over past disappointments and look forward. - no guaranteed outcome, but a chance - hopeful since W is now voicing her needs - requires NC with OM (can't have both) [W thinks I won't MC because she has "wrong attitude"]
other path - nothing solved and guaranteed damage for everyone - never know if we could have done better
state that my assumption is that if we aren't on the MC path, we are on the other path and should plan accordingly. (financially, etc.)
Zew, I think you're somewhat familiar with my sitch, but my WAW was doing basically the same thing- would play nice, denied OM was anything more than a friend, etc. When I finally found the proof that it was more than a friendship, I confronted W with what I had found (fully expecting the spying on her line). I wish I would have done it right then, but about a month later is when I told her that I didn't want her staying at the house (couldn't kick her out) while she was in a relationship with OM and couldn't be friends with her while she was friends with him. I'm not going to lie and say it's not been difficult though. She's made a few attempts to play family since then, but I've stood my ground. You have to be sure that you're fully prepared for the outcome, whatever that may be. I decided that I couldn't take any more of the waiting game- it was only stopping me from enjoying my life.
I try not to read too much into it, but I have seen some signs that W is taking things more seriously now that I've taken actions as opposed to just use words ('threats'). She claims she's told OM that they are just friends and that she needs time to figure out what she wants in life. Maybe there will be a time/place in the future that she has the opportunity to regain my trust, but now is not that time. I'm staying focused on myself/the kids and just trying to move forward.
I also have a similar sitch with the cell phone as my contract is up in a couple of weeks. I'm still deciding if I ask W if she'd like to be on her own plan or just tell her that I'm putting her on her own. It will cost more $, but that's the reality of D.
Whatever you decide, make sure you are 100% prepared to deal with her reaction and will be able to stick to your guns- it could very well lead to her blaming you for snooping and a D. The biggest 180 I've ever had to do was not respond to my WAW's emails about being put into a terrible situation, 'kicking' her out of the house, not considering the kids in my decisions, etc. It's taken me way too long to realize that the WAW has to fix themselves and nothing we say to them can bring them back.
Zew, I am going through the same thing right now as you.
My W said the other day she felt like she tried till blue in the face. Said she told everybody but me how unhappy she was. Problem is neither she or they told me how unhappy so even if I wanted to change I didn't know what I needed to do.
BTW, I asked those people(my family) she said she told and they said she didnt talk to them at all so just another WAW deal I guess.
Hang in there!!
Me 47/W 34 T 16 M 13 No kids BD 6/2013 W asked that I move out 6/2013 I moved back and W is upset with this 12/2013 separate beds not much talking Served D Complaint 5/2014 W moved out 9/27/2014
