zew, have followed your situation a bit and can certainly understand how tough it is.
You are handling things well for the most part and I am sure will look back at some and realize how much personal growth you have experienced. Good for you.
In terms of showing the friend the facts, given what you have already experienced with this friend what would you hope would be different after that discussion? Just something to think about before taking action.
Stay strong!
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Zew, I echo SemperFi00's thought- do you really expect anything to be different should you reveal your W's lies to your mutual friend? I've talked to a couple of my WAW's close friends (who I'm friends with too) and come to realize that the more they try to talk W into working things out, the more she keeps to herself.
I recently sent an email to two of my W's closest friends who were like family to me. I expressed my disappointment that they didn't come to me about OM. The response I received was not at all what I would have expected. They essentially took a 'it's not my place to judge' stance.
In my particular situation no OM involved that I know of. Even still, a couple of close mutual friends tried initially to talk to W and they were subsequently shut out for quite a long time. W just surrounded herself with different group of friends who she had less of a history with and who didn't know me.
Now common friends have taken a similar stance as what you describe above, along the lines of "ideally we would very much like you guys to work things out but if not really want both of you to be happy". That way they still have some interaction with W.
Sounds like a cop out to me but I have at least learned 1 lesson thru all of this. So on that topic I decide to drink a big 'ol glass of STFU.
Seems like in my story (and from some other examples shared here) WAS's often have a tendency to take steps to ensure that their situation "matches" the scenario they have created or want.
The important thing that the LBS has to remember (2x4 for myself here) is that we can't change the approach the WAS decides to take. We can only work on our own path / journey.
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
W received a call from OM yesterday and they talked for 15 minutes. Just chit chat as friends
No such thing "as friends". These were lovers making contact again.
She will be thrilled for him to pursue her.....and even encouraged him when she asked him "catch up soon?"
Your status has not changed, Zew. As long as she has OM in her head your status has not changed from a WAW in an A. I know you guys put a lot of stock in the physical sex act and feel relief if/when you believe it has discontinued between the AP, but emotionally the A is still very much alive. By the 11th day, their withdrawal pains were getting strong for each of them. So, if she even tries to break it off again, she will have to start back at square one.
I wish I could tell her that she will not be able to talk to that guy under the guise of "friend".
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thanks SF and Tarheel, Of course you are correct. I know it would be pointless to talk to the friend. The attitude change has to come from W, not from the friend.
And Sandi and Starsky, ya the clock is reset. I'm bummed but not shocked.
W told a casual friend: My M is in a bad place. Instead of speaking up, I haven't. But I won't do that anymore. And now the kids are bigger and don't need me as much and I need to do things for me. Zew says "But I'm here now." and I said "I've been after you for years and you ignored me." It is too late, I am past the point of no return. I tried really hard. I've given and given and he's not given back. Zew says "You didn't tell me." I told him but he didn't listen. Zew says "You should have found other ways to communicate." So now it's my fault. And I always made sure he was taken care of, but I wasn't getting the emotional side out of the R.
So there it is. After 4 months, she just refreshed the WAW script. I've done 180s on a bunch of things, including getting off my computer and spending a lot more time with the kids, all of which has been good for me and they were changes I had to make. I feel much better about my involvement with the family now. None of these were the key issue though, at least according to her latest script.
There's no way to have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to have a relationship. She is hyper critical of everything I say or do, making her very unpleasant and unapproachable at home. She is still expending loads of energy making me the bad guy, including telling vile, outright slanderous lies to friends. I may be reading it wrong, but I think the fact that she still works so hard to hate me must mean she is still very conflicted and that should give me hope - i.e. if she were truly comfortable with leaving, she'd be over hating me to justify it.
I know I will survive all of this personally. GALing has shown me that there is no end of fun activities and people out there. Financially, D will be miserable for everyone, and I don't have a lot of years to recover. The thought of my kids coming from a broken home kills me and is a primary motivator to carry on; I fully understand that I control only half of that decision. And I still think my W is in there somewhere.
The dynamic is all wrong as far as W having any sense of loss of anything - she's working on her career, living at home, all expenses paid by me, living as though nothing is amiss, complaining all the while about how I'm making her life hell.
Quote:
We can't change the approach the WAS decides to take. We can only work on our own path / journey.
Sure, and if I look at the last 4 months, I want to summarize and see what has changed. W - has gone from angry to angry and tormented and on AD's and sleeping pills W - has recognized that A was screwing up her mind and impairing her ability to pursue career, but has broken her own imposed NC again. W - holding to the script; no hesitation W - preparing to leave, but there's a difference between talk and walk. Me - I feel better about a lot of things. Me - I know I can rebuild my life again without W Me - For someone who has always been patient with many things, this one is the counter-example. Can I go yet another round of A? I could piece for years, but how long can I stay with someone who says they want out, even if I don't trust them to know what they want?
And ideally: Hey W, go 12 weeks of NC with OM, then tell me how you feel about things. Then we'll work on it or wrap it up.
There's no way to have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to have a relationship. She is hyper critical of everything I say or do, making her very unpleasant and unapproachable at home. She is still expending loads of energy making me the bad guy, including telling vile, outright slanderous lies to friends. I may be reading it wrong, but I think the fact that she still works so hard to hate me must mean she is still very conflicted and that should give me hope - i.e. if she were truly comfortable with leaving, she'd be over hating me to justify it.
Ahhh, you are very wise, Grasshoppah.
Don't lose hope, Zew. BEGIN MOVING ON, and keep up with your changes, but "moving on" doesn't mean "giving up." Five days before my wife tearfully begged her way back into our marriage, she was telling OM that "you are the only one who ever did it for me," and professing her undying love. FIVE DAYS.
Her re-contact has put her back into wayward thinking, you are correct. Nothing more, nothing less. It's still all just standard SCRIPT.
Me-48,W-51 M-22,T-24 S- 18,16,9 Feb-Jul '11 Away from Home, after initial B date Aug-Dec '11 Back at Home on couch Dec '11-now Same bedroom, room mates only Dec '14 W files initial D paperwork
Seems like in my story (and from some other examples shared here) WAS's often have a tendency to take steps to ensure that their situation "matches" the scenario they have created or want.
W once told a friend that she was insecure and her greatest fear was that I'd leave her. Irony.
Quote:
"Remember, the opposite of Love isn't Hate -- it's APATHY."
The sad part is that it comes naturally with time. My WAW would argue that I became apathetic years ago.
Quote:
BEGIN MOVING ON, and keep up with your changes
The changes are habits now, no problem there.
I have about 25 years of this and that in the basement that needs to be cleaned up -- a lot of hobbies that have accumulated a lot of small parts. I don't look forward to it, so much so that I always said the next place I moved would be a pine box. I want to get myself inventoried and the place ready to be listed by August.
