I feel for you. This is a nightmare that none of us asked for. But we are all very strong people, the week give up sooner than us. I wish that I had found this site in the beginning, as I have made every mistake a few times, and now H is even further away from me. We are roommates only - even seperate rooms. H is having EA and PA but claims they are only friends. UGH!
I am glad that you did not do the things that other sites recommended. I have heard some really off the wall things to keep things together.
You will find that this is the best place to come and get advice and vent. Friends and family are concerned for you and don't give the best advice and get tired of listening. They cannot remove the worry for their loved one from the equation.
It took me a long time to realize this was not my fault. I hope that you figured it out early on. I kept thinking if I would have done this, if I would have done that he would be ok. The reality is that there is nothing that I could have done to stop this process. I have been blamed for everything including H childhood and I did not know him until late 20s.
Learn to find things that make you laugh. Sometimes the things MLCer do, you cannot help but laugh, as you have cried too much.
The best things for me have been IC, meds, and giving myself time to cry or yell or punch the punching bag everyday.
Scooby, they've locked your thread because it's over 100 posts. Time to start a new one
As for the controlling behavior you will see from your MLCers - I have found that the more out of control they are, the more they will often try to control others. It's all about them, what's going on inside them.
I understand all the feelings that rise up - hurt, anger, frustration, disappointment and even disgust at times. Whether they intend to hurt us or not, they do. But - and this is a big BUT - we can feel these things without judging them. They aren't doing these things to us, we just happen to be in the way so to speak.
Best thing to do is to get yourself out of the way.
Some good advice from other posters, and lots to read here to help you along the way
Bomb January 2012 - doesn't feel the same about me
~ "There is nothing love cannot face; there is no limit to its faith, hope, and endurance."
Thanks FY, scooby and TVS! Helps to know I'm not alone. My W goes up and down and all around when it comes to what she is willing to talk to me about. Some days she wants to hide everything (like changing the passwords for the email we shared for 15 years and I need access to for bills), other days she wants to talk and talk about everything going on in her life (some of which I really don't want to hear). She knows that I love her deeply. She knows I tried every way I knew how to be a good husband (most days)but will also bring up mistakes from long ago to justify her behavior now. Some days she will seek my touch (but will NEVER touch me)others, my touch is like hot coals to her.
The more that I give her space, don't get upset at her even over things that I have every right to get upset over, listen to her and validate her (never giving advice), the more relaxed she is around me (although never totally so). She is dealing with her grandmother losing her mind and having to move to a nursing home that she doesn't want to be in and I have given up much of my GAL activities as of late to allow her the time and space to help her and her mother deal with that. While she would NEVER thank me for it, I do think she sees this.
This morning she told me one of the few women she works with that are happily married and she calls a "friend" is going to be fired. The reasons? Well, the main one from what my wife has said is that she actually wants to spend time with her family and doesn't work "off the clock" like the single and divorced people. I really think one of the reasons that things got bad in my marriage is that since her work has become more and more important to my W, she has felt pressure from me to be more involved with me and the kids while at the same time her work and her work friends demand more and more of her time. This is why most of the people she works with are divorced I think.
Since going back to work my W has thrown herself into it. The kids are older (oldest is now 18, youngest 14)they don't need her as much and this is a big part of the mid-life adjustments men and women need to make. The inability to integrate this new part of their life without destroying the old is one of the reasons they are in crisis! For my wife it's made worse in that her dad refused to accept her when she was not working and his lack of attention and approval has haunted her all her life. Doesn't help that he now is encouraging her to leave her marriage so she can "grow"!
In some ways the fact that my W can be so open and "friendly" at times makes things somewhat harder in that it gives me hope that she may be "coming around" when in fact she has a long way to go. Doesn't help that my business is failing and has been and money is more than tight! Even before her MLC my W was always afraid of not having enough money, even when it wasn't a problem she was never comfortable and part of her wanting "control". I have offered for years to give her this control but she refuses as it 'freaks her out". It also allows her to blame me for any money problems even when she is the cause (not cheap to go through an MLC! Just the new clothes and sexy underwear bills are off the charts! :))
I'm trying as best I can to stop spinning, to keep my mind on the fact that I didn't cause this and I can't "fix" it. Knowing that there is nothing I can do to make it better or move faster while there are many, many ways I can make it worse is daunting at times. When she is being more open, it's hard not to think there may be a way to get her to understand what she is going through isn't about me or her marriage but I know that's not true. It's also hard in that it feels almost like I have to deal with 3 teenagers, one of whom is really 47 and there is nothing I can do to get her to listen!
I guess another thing that I'm trying to understand is why do I still love this woman as much as I do? This selfish behavior and the blaming me has been going on for years and before that I had to deal with 3 years of her depression, thoughts of suicide, inability to get out of bed most days. All through this I have loved her and still do. Now she wants to tell me that all her pain, all her depression, all her unhappiness is MY fault somehow and all she needs to do is get away from me and all will magically be happy and joyful and still I love her. I'm not afraid of being alone or never finding another person to spend my life with. I know that if I did get divorced there will be someone out there that I could start over with, be "happy" with (since I know my being happy or not isn't up to anyone but me)but still I want my W. Why? Even she has said "Maybe you'll find out you'll be happier when I'm gone". Why do I still care so darn much for a person who has made it clear I'm not good enough or worse I am the cause of all their pain?
IF you are standing (and I assume you are since you are posting here), then it is your MLC too. Only difference is, that you get to do the same as she does, without all of the confusion, and internal conflict that she has to deal with.
You get to do this with a clear head, and without destroying everything in your life to get there.
I have always said that there are two sides to every person. Their personality, and their character. The personality is what they show to the world, and their character is who they are when the room is dark, and there is nobody watching them.
MLC is a full frontal attack on a person' character, and it attacks every facet of their moral code, social code, integrity, honor,etc...
Yea, she seems pretty script with a lot of her actions.
What is it that YOU want right now ??
Nothing about her either...
This is about you, your hopes, your dreams, your thoughts ????
You say that you have given up GAL.....
Why ???
And not some cheesy version of why, the real truth of why, and how that affects YOU in the long run... ????
Your goal right now, is to outlast her MLC. You have to be stronger than anything that she can throw at you.
And the suktastic part of that, is that there are absolutely ZERO guarantees that things will work out in the end.
Do you have it in you, to outlast her ?
Most guys don't make it that long, they come here, and profess that they can stand forever for their spouse, blah, blah, blah...
And they last a few months.....
Can you last ????
How much of " Why do I love her ?" comes from your guilt ? and your past actions ???
Yes, you did not CAUSE this, although you did contribute to it. Everything in her life until this point has been a contribution to it....
Her MLC is just that....HERS....
Leave it the F alone, and don't get it out and play with it, just to see if it is still there...
Focus on you, the kids, and WHEN this turns around for her ???
Just take it moment to moment. You don't have to decide if you can hang in there a long time right now. Just concentrate on here and now. It is very hard to implement all the suggestions, but you will get better. Learn to watch from afar. It is challenging, but saves you in the long run. Have fun with kids and let your w be selfish and live her life. Hopefully the more freedom they have, the sooner they will wake up.
Hi Mach1, Well, I don't know about not having the confusion and internal conflict. Maybe not the same kind of confusion and conflict but they are both there. As much as we all like to think we are our own person we do depend on a very few select few people in our lives. For me the number one was my wife. To watch the person I've known go away and be replaced by this alien is rather confusing. I will say when my W went into her depression around 7 years ago, I lost a big part of myself. I had to take over so much of the day to day and still go out and make a living and my world became smaller for sure.
Then, when she was finally out of that she started down the MLC road! Of course not knowing what was going on, I tried all the wrongs ways to get through to her and never was able to re-focus on myself. One of the things I not only want but NEED to do is find ME again. Not the husband/father me but the all around me that somehow got lost in all this mess. I've been nothing but husband/father for so dang long and with W in MLC I still need to be caregiver #1 for my girls. I had always thought that when the kids were done HS and off to college, W and I could finally be there for each other. Do the things we put off because of needing money for kids school and such. Travel, just be there for each other and not have to be a parent first and foremost. Now that seems less likely than ever.
I haven't stopped GALing, I just backed off for a bit so I can allow my W some time to help her grandmother get used to the new home she just this last Friday moved into. I've been having to pick up the kids from school and get them feed and such so she can go visit her GM which just doesn't leave time for getting out. This won't last for more than this week and I will be back to going and doing my thing next week.
As for personality/character...I have watched my MLC W try on diffferent personalities for more than a year! One of the things that she has said is she can't "find her joy" when she is with me. I believe this is because she knows that I know who she is better than anyone. She can't wear a mask with me around . She insisted on going alone to her co. X-mass party. Then I hear how everyone there thought she must have been drinking she was acting so "out of character" and this excited her. She so badly wants to change who she is, how she is seen by others. Before B-day she would talk about how she felt "invisible" to other people. How no one noticed her. She has always been shy but has worked hard to not be. She always found fault with herself and nothing I said or did seemed to help her low self esteem. These new personalities seem like a way for her to be noticed, even if for all the wrong reasons.
These new personalities conflict with her character in so many ways.At least the character she had pre-MLC. She always put her kids first. Never believed in divorce, sacrificed "things" for what was best for the family. Now she says divorce isn't wrong, it's how you act after that makes it hard on the kids. That we all hurt our kids, they'll get over it. Personal happiness comes before responsibility to others. Work and friends come before home and family, etc. This change in character allows her to also change personality without the internal conflict.
If I had known more about MLC I would have seen it coming for sure. I really don't think I could have done a thing to stop it as every attempt I ever made to boost her self esteem and let her know how important and worthy she was ever worked. All I ever got was that I was the only person who saw her this way and since I was in love with her, my opinion didn't count.
As for being able to stand for my marriage. I stayed through 3 years of depression. I have lasted through 3+ years of MLC so far and close to a year since B-day. I have listened to her tell me some of the most hurtful things another person can say to me, the taking off of her wedding ring, the neglect of her kids, a near nervous breakdown last Aug.where she had to go back on anti-depression meds and blamed her "bad marriage" for it. The spending sprees, the staying out all night, the going away for weeks at a time with no thought to me having to take care of everything. The anger and meanness. The anxiety/depression. The blame and taking no responsibility for ANY part of our "bad marriage". The accusations of wrong doing on my part that have no basis in reality. The list gets longer and I'm sure worse is yet to come. I am sure of one thing, I will stand for my marriage until it no longer has any chance. That point, if it comes, will be because of not what I decide but what my W decides and whether she can make the journey through the tunnel and if she does, who she is when she comes out the other side.
Thanks scooby, I needed to hear (read?) that right now! I do know I want so badly to see this to the end, no matter what the outcome. She may come out the other side and be so changed she just doesn't want me but at least I'll know I stuck in there to the end!
Hi Mach1, Well, I don't know about not having the confusion and internal conflict. Maybe not the same kind of confusion and conflict but they are both there. As much as we all like to think we are our own person we do depend on a very few select few people in our lives. For me the number one was my wife. To watch the person I've known go away and be replaced by this alien is rather confusing. I will say when my W went into her depression around 7 years ago, I lost a big part of myself. I had to take over so much of the day to day and still go out and make a living and my world became smaller for sure.
MLC is depression
Don't underestimate the confusion inside of the MLCers head..
Have you done any reading on Co-Dependency ???
You aren't responsible for her happiness, any more than she is responsible for your happiness....
And that is a LOT of pressure to place on another person....
Do YOU want that responsibility for her ???
Is that what a marriage looks like to you ??
Your partner being responsible for your happiness/emotional self worth ???
Originally Posted By: Matt165
Then, when she was finally out of that she started down the MLC road! Of course not knowing what was going on, I tried all the wrongs ways to get through to her and never was able to re-focus on myself. One of the things I not only want but NEED to do is find ME again. Not the husband/father me but the all around me that somehow got lost in all this mess. I've been nothing but husband/father for so dang long and with W in MLC I still need to be caregiver #1 for my girls. I had always thought that when the kids were done HS and off to college, W and I could finally be there for each other. Do the things we put off because of needing money for kids school and such. Travel, just be there for each other and not have to be a parent first and foremost. Now that seems less likely than ever.
We have ALL tried the wrong things at first....
You sure that you are done trying them ????
Originally Posted By: Matt165
I haven't stopped GALing, I just backed off for a bit so I can allow my W some time to help her grandmother get used to the new home she just this last Friday moved into. I've been having to pick up the kids from school and get them feed and such so she can go visit her GM which just doesn't leave time for getting out. This won't last for more than this week and I will be back to going and doing my thing next week.
Good
Originally Posted By: Matt165
As for personality/character...I have watched my MLC W try on diffferent personalities for more than a year! One of the things that she has said is she can't "find her joy" when she is with me. I believe this is because she knows that I know who she is better than anyone. She can't wear a mask with me around . She insisted on going alone to her co. X-mass party. Then I hear how everyone there thought she must have been drinking she was acting so "out of character" and this excited her. She so badly wants to change who she is, how she is seen by others. Before B-day she would talk about how she felt "invisible" to other people. How no one noticed her. She has always been shy but has worked hard to not be. She always found fault with herself and nothing I said or did seemed to help her low self esteem. These new personalities seem like a way for her to be noticed, even if for all the wrong reasons.
No
You USED to know her better than anyone....maybe
Or did you ???
Did you ever imagine that she could do this ??
Do you think that she is CHOOSING this ???
You, fighting against what she believes in now (right or wrong to the majority of the world), is exactly what she is trying to get away from....
You support her, but only if she does them in YOUR way ???
Originally Posted By: Matt165
These new personalities conflict with her character in so many ways.At least the character she had pre-MLC. She always put her kids first. Never believed in divorce, sacrificed "things" for what was best for the family. Now she says divorce isn't wrong, it's how you act after that makes it hard on the kids. That we all hurt our kids, they'll get over it. Personal happiness comes before responsibility to others. Work and friends come before home and family, etc. This change in character allows her to also change personality without the internal conflict.
Maybe...maybe not...
How are you sure that these are what was really inside of her ?
Maybe she had always just assumed, or adapted what everyone else thought she should believe in ???
That is what MLC is Matt...
They take everything out of the box. They play with it, try it on, and see how it fits, how it responds for them.
They have little that they actually own (internally), and everything is bright, shiny, and new to them.
Everything in their life, up to this point, has made them un-happy inside. Something is missing from their life, and nothing is held sacred anymore.
What has been the one constant for her ???
You....
That skin has to be shed before she can tell, or decide if it is you that is the problem.
Most MLCers refuse to look inward, because the problem cannot be with them self (part of the depression), so it HAS to be something else. You are the closest to her, so she hurts you the most.....
Originally Posted By: Matt165
If I had known more about MLC I would have seen it coming for sure. I really don't think I could have done a thing to stop it as every attempt I ever made to boost her self esteem and let her know how important and worthy she was ever worked. All I ever got was that I was the only person who saw her this way and since I was in love with her, my opinion didn't count.
No you wouldn't have, and no you couldn't have stopped it...
No, you cannot help it move along any faster, although you can prolong it....
Nothing you say or do will change anything with her, yet everything you say or do will play a part in this....
She didn't/doesn't need or want you to boost her self esteem...she is now, and has always wanted to do that on her own....
How much have you gotten in the way of that ???
Are you still ???
Part of her pushing you now, and the reason that she doesn't want your opinion, is that she was with you for years, and she doesn't feel any differently now (maybe even worse), so in her book, your opinion doesn't matter.
It is also YOUR answer, for her problems....
Not gonna happen...
How much of your support was criticism ???
Criticism is a form of control....
Are you controlling ???
I would say first things first....
Stop trying to diagnose her, and stop trying to "fix" her....
Mach is trying to help you to see that you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with W's MLC and trying to 'diagnose' or 'fixing' her crisis isn't your job at all.
I want to expand on Mach's comment here:
Originally Posted By: Mach1
Most MLCers refuse to look inward, because the problem cannot be with them self (part of the depression), so it HAS to be something else. You are the closest to her, so she hurts you the most.....
In my case, when I was going through my own MLC, I was deeply mired in my own unhappiness along with depression that felt like the world was closing in on me...especially Ms. Wonka. As we live in a very tangible world, we struggle trying to find the "source" of our unhappiness or depression which is why we look outward/externally to latch onto as a way to identify the REAL problem so we can fix it. For me, I was clueless and unaware that it was ALL ON ME and my chit. It took a long time to work through that others, especially Ms. Wonka, was not the source of my MLC angst.
In a way, we were not refusing to look inward...but working VERY hard to identify and locate the source of whatever is causing our misery. It makes sense from our POV that something "out there" is the cause of it. Because the spouse is the closest to the MLCer, you bear the brunt of their anger and spewing. It is not until years later after our OWs/OMs and whatever else experimentation peters off that we slowly begin to realize that the problem all along was INTERNAL. Those group of MLCers are more, for lack of a better word, self-aware and evolved as opposed to those who remain stuck for years and years (i.e. Bea, WH, & Job's nutty nutters).
It is a slow process in waking up to the ultimate realization that the MLC was due to unresolved issues in a person's youth.
Hey Matt, I wanted to post on your sitch since you posted on mine It's a long journey. Pretty much everyone here knows what you're going through because they have gone through it in one way or another so definitely listen to what you're being advised by the ones who know. I'm still new so I can only tell you what has worked for me so far: GAL, Reading every resource you can get your hands on on MLC. Understanding you cannot fix anything, you can only control yourself. I joined a divorce rebuilding group and it has sooooo helped my progress. Journaling - you can journal here but I also found writing in a notebook helps me clear my mind and enables me to sleep, it quiets my mind. Exercise helps get out the anger. Praying, and praying a lot. I was actually more of an agnostic before BD, and I feel like God has led me back to him. I pray for strength and he gives it to me. I also pray for forgiveness and the ability to forgive. He took my guilt away, I put ALL of it in his hands. Use this time for introspection. It's hard, but it helps. I have found out things about myself I never realized. His MLC forced me to look inside and discover things and I am working on positive changes. If he never sees them - oh well, I'm doing it for ME. Well I do hope he sees them one day but you have to live your life "as if" they aren't coming back. This is probably one of the most difficult things ever to deal with, truly heartbreaking. You're not alone - take it day by day. It's what you do with the time that matters. Just keep living - ((hugs))
Me - 42 exH - 56 Married 10.5 years Together 17 bomb dropped 1/6/14 signed papers 2/4/14 H moved out 2/22/14 D final 4/4/14 Dropped the rope 5/17/14 2 cats, 2 dogs
