Loot and lawyers ...

[Train]

Also, while giving credit, I should add: H texted me while I was on the way down, saying, "Let me know when you arrive so I know you're all safe."

That was nice. Considering how much of a d!ck he's been lately, I would have expected a text that said: "Let me know when you arrive so I know S7 and D2 are safe."

[Train]

Update - CRAP! Where are y'all when I need you? Lol! - but please read the last two posts for some context ....

Just as I feared (but not THIS soon), I got THE text tonight about H coming to the beach ...

But first, out of the blue, he texts, saying his work at his second-shift job has stopped for now because of miscommunication. Long story. It's happened before, and I FLIPPED when H and I were still together, and he was working there and not getting paid ...

So tonight, he texted: "Lost work again at (name of business)."

I replied: "I'm sorry. What happened?"

He wrote back, telling me about the miscommunication and said, "Don't worry. Not gonna pull money from ya, my L told me to stick with what I'm doing now, for now. I wouldn't f--- you like that or the kids."

It took me 30 minutes to re-gain my composure before I replied: "I'm sure it will work out, as it always seems to. As for the kids and me, thank you. I'm learning, ever so slowly, that I can lead them through darn near anything. And we will be okay, no matter what, too. Everything will work out; stressing about it is pointless. For you at (name of business), too."

UGH! That was HARD! (And I'm still wondering if I'm being TOO "zen" in my responses when I really want to tie his balls in a knot and hang him from the ceiling?!???)

He replied: "Lol, I know." And then (UGH!!!!): "So are you still in the same mindset as you were when you asked me if I wanted to come down there and spend time with the kids, as you are now?"

I replied: "Still in the same mindset? What do you mean?"

He wrote: "I think when you asked me to come to the beach, that you thought there still might be a chance with us. But I think you're over that now, so, would it be really weird for me to come down there?"

I cringed, took 20 minutes to re-center, and wrote: "My intentions in asking if you wanted to come down here were to offer you a chance to spend time with the kids. It really has nothing to do with me or with 'us'."

He replied: "Ok, cool, is offer still on then?"

And I said: "Sure. When do you think you might head down?"

He JUST responded: "Possibly Fri. , definitely Sat. afternoon. You sure that's cool?"

And I replied: "Yes. It might be awkward, but it would be for the kids. We can come up with some 'ground rules,' to make it work for all of us. But I trust, together, we can make it work for them."

And he replied, "Yup."

I hate myself right now. I regret asking him in the first place. He's right: I DID think there was still a chance for us to be together when I offered for him to come down for the weekend.

But NOW? Now, I feel differently. I feel strong ... but I feel I COULD be weak. Does that make sense? I'm in a good place, but I think it's because I've held him away for a couple weeks. The "old me" wants him to spend some time away from work, relaxing with the kids (and, yes, me - though I feel desperate and stupid for even admitting that now). That's who I was before I honestly understood - like, REALLY understood - he fired me as his wife. The "new me" - the one who was fired as a wife for OW and totally gets that now - wants to move on and not have anything to do with him. And I still believe he needs to feel the consequences of his choices (though I fully understand I'm not the one who can make that happen), and he'll never feel the blow of his choices until I'm totally out of the picture.

So I'll stand by my word to allow him to come down here and spend a day or two with the kids. But I need immediate help on how - and WHEN - to drop the boundary about him not texting OW while he's here.

And that could change the entire "ball game."

I had a short chat with S7 tonight about his dad spending a couple days here. I (enthusiastically) said: "Daddy's talking about coming down here for a couple days this weekend; you cool with that?" And he said: "I'd like that, but I don't want him texting OW while he's here. I just want him to play with us and not be texting her." D17 said the very same thing during the conversation.

So, what do I do? I don't want H to think *I* am being jealous and controlling by dropping that boundary. But I've heard my kids, and I know how *I* feel, too. And I think, out of respect for our family, H should refrain from texting OW while he's here. Though I think that should be a given, I think it's something I'll have to address with him, unfortunately, because he's as selfish and self-absorbed as the day is long.

So give me some ideas, guys. I know you have them ...

[FindingPatience]

I've found it helpful to say to the kids "I don't control your dad" and then I try not to. When my kids tell me something bothers them, I let them know that they need to talk to their father directly and not through me. That's healthier for everyone in the long run. That being said, I also can't stand to be around him while he texts her, so I'm keeping him at arms length for my own sanity!

[Starsky309]

On boundaries ...

As I mentioned in a prior post, I usually don't EXPRESS boundaries. Right or wrong, I just decide in my mind what my boundaries are, and I tailor my behavior, actions and attitude to enforce said boundaries.

But one boundary I need to set for ME is that H - if he's ever in my presence - does not text OW. I feel it's incredibly distasteful and disrespectful for him to do this.

. . .

But let's say, for instance, H is in our/my home after I have stated my boundary. And let's assume he starts texting. First, how do I know if he's texting HER and not someone else? How do I handle it if he IS texting her? I can ask him to leave. And he can say no. How do I enforce a boundary like that once I've stated it?

How to originally state it:

"I know we both want what's best for the kids thru all of this, and I am thankful for that. In light of that, I have decided that going forward I would ask that you not text OW or call her from in front of them. They've both brought it up to ME as being very upsetting to them, and we need to help them thru all of this. I would also of course expect you not to text or call her from inside of our marital home, like you used to -- that's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and to our family."

How to enforce it if you walk in on him doing it, or if he does it in front of you:

"I certainly hope that's not your girlfriend you are texting." And then STAND there, looking at him. Do not leave the room, nor do anything to make HIM feel more comfortable. If he shows you that it's NOT, say "Good. I just wanted to make sure we were still clear on that." If you shows you that IS, or if he tries to dodge you, say "We've discussed this. I expect you to respect my boundaries when you're here, and take that outside." And then STAND there, and don't leave.


Starsky

[Starsky309]

Here's the link to an EXCELLENT thread on boundaries, by the late great Coach:

Coach, on Boundaries


RIP, old friend. You are sorely missed.


Starsky

[Train]

Thanks for stopping by, FP!

I've found it helpful to say to the kids "I don't control your dad" and then I try not to. When my kids tell me something bothers them, I let them know that they need to talk to their father directly and not through me.

Yep. I use this one A LOT with S7. But every time he tries to address his dad about something that bothers him - which is rare - S7 starts crying. I'm trying to work on this with him so he becomes a better communicator eventually.

"I know we both want what's best for the kids thru all of this, and I am thankful for that. In light of that, I have decided that going forward I would ask that you not text OW or call her from in front of them. They've both brought it up to ME as being very upsetting to them, and we need to help them thru all of this. I would also of course expect you not to text or call her from inside of our marital home, like you used to -- that's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage and to our family."

This is a gem, Starsky. Thank you.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to handle this in a text instead of face-to-face to give him plenty of time to consider it before he drives 4 hours to the coast. I don't want to just bring it up out of the blue, but I DID mention "ground rules" in the texts last night. Hopefully an opportune time will present itself in the next few days. If not, I'll just throw it out there.

[Starsky309]

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to handle this in a text instead of face-to-face to give him plenty of time to consider it before he drives 4 hours to the coast. I don't want to just bring it up out of the blue, but I DID mention "ground rules" in the texts last night. Hopefully an opportune time will present itself in the next few days. If not, I'll just throw it out there.

Yep -- I agree. But so long as you also do it again (but ONLY ONCE!) in person. He needs to see your resolve. Think "Mamabear."

I'm disappointed that you didn't lay this boundary earlier, as it would have been much stronger. I frequently get into debates around here with posters who mistakenly say "The best time to lay a boundary is when you're ready," instead of the proper strategy of "The best time to lay a boundary is EARLY -- as early as possible." This is because:

1. Boundaries are for YOU, and it will help you get thru your sitch if your wayward spouse learns to respect your boundaries;

2. Boundaries are healthier for your KIDS.

3. Clearly laying -- and learning to enforce -- boundaries builds RESPECT, and therefore ATTRACTION.

You do it later, and it can seem "coached," or -- worse -- even as some sort of pursuing tactic. When properly laid at the outset, it sends a clear message of "These are my core boundaries of personal integrity. Do not cross them if you want to be around me."


Starsky

[Train]

I'm disappointed that you didn't lay this boundary earlier, as it would have been much stronger.

You and me both. This is going to be all over the place, but try to follow along, knowing you're reading the inner workings of a very confused mind:

To be honest, I lived that first month or so in complete shock. I'm not sure I'm completely out from under that yet. But I'm not waffling near as much as I was right after BD. Remember: I'm the one who was still letting my H touch me - thinking it was "progress" - in the beginning, even though he would still sit there and text OW. Silly, stupid me.

I was one of those people who couldn't reconcile DB with firm boundaries, and I waffled badly at first. I've only recently discovered that those two can't exactly BE reconciled; it was you and HS who pointed that out to me initially. So, essentially, I was being a doormat the first six weeks, thinking it was progress when H texted me "just because," and when he wanted to hang out and talk on the back patio over a beer. I totally ignored the OW and his relationship with her. I STILL feel like a doormat because no matter how mean or crude he's being, I'm still trying to stay cool-tempered and level-headed instead of losing my sh!t. I haven't lost my shi!t with him since I kicked him out. And I lost it BAD that night ... and the night I found the texts.

H said in a text last night: "I think when you asked me to come to the beach, that you thought there still might be a chance with us. But I think you're over that now ..." When I allowed myself to feel the kick in the gut that caused, and then spent a minute mulling it over, it occurred to me that maybe even my unspoken boundaries - and certainly my "pulling back" - are at least having SOMEWHAT of an effect. To be truthful, I'm just ignoring him AND his comments. Staying quiet. Because I'm confused as hell about what to do or how to respond. I'm still in a fog, but I'm coming out. I haven't had a conversation with H about what happened in our M. Not one. I haven't had an opening to state many boundaries now that I feel I know better what I want and need.

In other words, and overall, Starsky, I've honestly sat back, quietly, and let him run all over me. That's just me being brutally honest. I've been trying to be mellow in my interactions with him, in spite of him being a turd so many times. And I feel that has made me a doormat. I've gone "dim" the past few weeks to give MYSELF time to heal and figure out what I want and what I NEED. I think I've obviously confused him in doing so. But I needed it for me. And now, I'm READY to come out and set some boundaries for ME in this "new normal" life.

I hope setting - and verbalizing - boundaries is better late than never.

[Train]

All that said, help me figure out how to make up for lost time? Help me reclaim MY power. Tell me how I can do this now that two months have passed ...

I've been using all actions and NO words. Perhaps it's time to use words, too?

[Starsky309]

I hope setting - and verbalizing - boundaries is better late than never.

It is. Far, far better. And because it DOESN'T come naturally to you, and you don't have a track record of setting them with him . . . they might be that much more attention-getting.