Wife in MLC and getting ready to go!

[Matt165]

Thank you for replying. After I calmed down my W came in our bedroom(never does this with me there except for a few sec. ) and lie down next to me to watch a movie I was watching. After it was over she lay as close to me as possible and did the same thing she always has done if she wanted a back rub. I turned toward her put my hand on her back and said "All I've ever done is try to be the best husband I could. I'm sorry you're so unhappy" and rubbed her back. She said "you don't have to change for me". Talk about a non-sequtor! Here she hasn't touched me or let me touch her for months, she says all those awfull things and now does this? I do think you're right, she is crazy.

That doesn't help when I know she is leaving in a very few weeks now. Doesn't care about whether the kids stay with her and I really don't think they will. Fits her new life style better! The crap about the 20 years ago stuff is the worst. It's like she was hanging her hat on that. And when I said I've stood by her during some bad times SHE was going thru because I took my vows seriously, just like she said she did and always would, she tells me she did too. What the heck is the past tense? God, I see how crazy she is. I feel compassion for her pain but at the same time here is a 47 year old woman with degree and a high level job in the medical field and she can say and do things like she does and feels "empowered" doing them. If she were just all around bat-@&"$ crazy that would be easier to take. Instead she singles out the people closest to her, the people who she should be the most grateful to have in her life and blame us for everything that ever went wrong, every bad decision THEY made is now somehow YOUR fault. The things that were most important no longer matter (like saying "We all hurt our kids, they'll get over it") and they can't see how they would have been appalled if someone they knew said the things they do or did the things they're doing just a year ago!

Why can't they see they are a walking joke and we, the people who loved them and took care of them and shared ourselves with them are the punch line. Everyone sees it. The weight loss, the clothes, the hanging out with people much younger and doing stupid things like get too drunk to drive home when she went to her bosses friends batchaloette party. All the others there were 20 years younger than her and she gets so wasted they have to take her back to their rental early and she thinks she made "new friends" when they were probably laughing at the old lady who can't hold her alcohol! Like everyone at her work telling her she was acting so crazy that they thought she was drinking at her company X-mass party and she was PROUD of herself because she was noticed!

Why does she want so badly to be alone and in control and yet refuses to do anything NOW that might give her some sense of control (like take over paying the bills because she can't understand where all our money goes). When I asked her why she waited until the company I worked for for 10 years went out of business and after we talked about it decided TOGETHER that I would start a new business but it would take a long time to make money. Lied to me saying she had NO THOUGHTS of leaving her marriage and let me get a vasectomy. She said because I kept asking her why she wouldn't do things together, why she was acting like she was towards me and I kept telling her I wanted us to have a better marriage and she wasn't going to lie to me. I asked and she was going to tell me truthfully how she felt. The problem is if she felt that way why lie and let me get an operation I didn't want and never would have if she had been truthful. To that I got the old "I changed my mind and I can't help that"! People don't just change their minds in 12 weeks time about things as important as that! How can't she see now crazy that sounds!

Until now she like me didn't believe in divorce. When I asked her about that she said "We always made exceptions like abuse or drug use so it wasn't totally out of the picture". I guess now I know why she keeps bringing up 20 years ago. Yes, when I was depressed and stupid and a different person 20 years ago, I messed up. Since than I have done nothing and have never once done it again. After my first child I changed even more and the thought of doing something like that is so far out of my character. But it allows her to rationalize her doing this. It allows her to say she isn't doing something she swore she would never do if she can somehow use something that happened so long ago as justification for her actions.

The thing is this was what she was saying when all this started. When we talked and I pointed out that there was no reason for her to think I would ever do something like that again, she dropped that as a reason and started saying something else. We went through weeks of her saying it was because of this or that and when none of those gels water it became how she doesn't love me the right way and she needs to find her joy. Why is she back saying this crap that she stopped saying 9 months ago! Is this part of the stages? Is there a stage where they go back to old reasons that appeared to have been gotten past ages ago? How do you expect to ever make anything better when issues you thought we were past, that they themselves said make no sense and really weren't the real reasons come rearing back again?

[Matt165]

Anyone who knows if it is normal to get past the original issues, the MCL goes back like it was fresh and didn't drop those issues long ago? Why my wife would say the mean awful things she did and then lay next to me and accept my loving (non-sexual) touch an hour later when she has been avoiding my touch for months? Especially after just telling me she's leaving and is 90% sure we will never get back together again? Why she is being nicer than ever (although a very fake nice!). Please somebody tell me this is normal MLC behavior. I'm so angry at her right now! I was ok holding onto she is going through a hard time, working through her issues, now I can see not only has she not been working trough them she is back to making up the same old stories she stopped saying long ago. It makes me think not only hasn't she made progress, she is moving backwards since her trip to see dad!

[ForeverYoung]

Matt, you are trying to analyze her crises with a logical mind. Stop that, you will drive yourself nuts!

She is in pain and searching for ways to fix it. She doesn’t know what she wants, except for the pain to go away. She’s having major life regrets, and sees time running out to fix it. So expect her to bounce around as she attempts to find answers.

Be the steady rock in her life. The one who confidently took care of himself and his family. Now’s your chance to live a more meaningful life of purpose. Do this and she WILL notice.

Your job is to show her you understand she’s in pain and believe she will get through this difficult period in her life. If you REALLY LISTEN to her, and support her, she is more likely to not run from you.

She loved you for all those years, and at some level still does. Let go and allow her to do what she needs to do to figure herself out.

I know it’s difficult, but please don’t take her rejection of you personally. She’s really not doing this TO you, she’s doing it FOR her.

Watching her spin is a waste of your time. Focus on more on yourself and you will find it gets easier.

[Matt165]

Thanks Forever.
To hear her say she read something I wrote but then describe me saying things I've never even thought, let alone would write and instead of saying something to me just got angry and stayed that way for months really upset me. Here I am trying my best to give her space, be nice even in the face of her awful behavior and she not only projects these things onto me but uses it to feel justified in even worse behavior. All the hard work I've been doing for months and here she decides to ascribe all these awful thoughts about her to me. It was a blow!

She says she's in pain but is just going to "try" being on her own as a way to be happy. Why is that going to make her happy? Yes, I know logical thinking! This is so hard because I've been trying so dang hard to do the right things and all this time she was judging me from one thing she read and read things into it that weren't even there!

She doesn't want me talking to my kids but they aren't stupid and know things aren't right. She thinks by telling our 14 year old she isn't sleeping in our bedroom because I snore is fooling her! They too are in pain. They too see what she is doing and are hurt by it. Does she really think just not saying anything and pretending all is well the one day we sit them down and tell them mom is moving away is a better way to go?

I want to not be angry. I want to see her as someone in pain but she makes it so hard by denying the truth, changing history and using events from 20 years ago that she knows still shame me makes that so hard!

Thank you for responding. I needed to hear a calm voice get back to me! Many thanks!

[ericmsant2]

Matt

Trying to make sense of “why she is”, “what she is doing”, “what might she be thinking”…is pointless.

As forever young has mentioned…now is the time that YOU need to work on YOU.

She may notice, she may not – personally, I have no idea. What I do know is that working on YOU and finding YOUR happiness amongst this will be the greatest gift that YOU give yourself.

Matt, IMO, you are still in shock. You are trying to rational her behavior, her words.

Every actions you take is based on HER.

In order to get through this, you need to separate your ACTIONS from HER actions/words/behavior. You need to really focus on just YOU.

The person that you were married too has been beamed up to a different planet. It no longer is about YOU, the kids and her. Nope. It is all about HER. HER needs, HER wants.


You need to change your mind set and make things about YOU.

What does Matt want to do?

Who does Matt want to be?

Here I am trying my best to give her space, be nice even in the face of her awful behavior and she not only projects these things onto me but uses it to feel justified in even worse behavior. All the hard work I've been doing for months and here she decides to ascribe all these awful thoughts about her to me. It was a blow!

Space and “being nice” are two different things. No one said you needed to be “nice”. Civil works too.

I want to not be angry. I want to see her as someone in pain but she makes it so hard by denying the truth, changing history and using events from 20 years ago that she knows still shame me makes that so hard!

Stop looking at HER. Stop looking at everything she does. If you start living your life for YOU and the kids…she just may wake up and realize what she is missing.

[Wonka]

Matt,

I am so sorry to read this update. Yep, it isn't fun at all.

This isn't about you at all. I know you think we're talking nonsense to you here. But believe us when we tell you that it is NEVER about you at all. Yes, W has said really hurtful things to you about the M. It is the confusion that's talking, not W.

For the MLCer, it is confusing to wonder why we're so unhappy so we are spinning around looking for somebody to blame. Who else but the person closest to us? The spouse. We all live in a tangible world so we are floundering around trying to pinpoint the reason for our unhappiness and depression. In their mind, the depression is really heavy and the PRESSURE immense so we feel the STRONG urge/need to get outta there fast!

We want you outta our face! Get the f*ck outta our way. That is our mindset in MLC. It will take a long, long time for the MLCer to work through their chit. We zig zag all over the place because we are so damned confused and fearful all the time. There were a few times when I hugged Ms. Wonka during my MLC and I am sure I confused her big time with my actions/antics.

It is not you, honey.

The best you can do in this situation is to detach and GAL. You might want to take your kids out more often such as going to the movies or the arcade. Get busy living instead of standing still staring at your W. Does nobody any good at all.

[Matt165]

Thanks Eric. Funny thing is, that's exactly what I was trying to do and I do believe, as you said, she noticed. I didn't start this talk on Saturday, she did. She started it by saying how we need to figure out what we are going to do about our daughters school next year as she has decided that she is going to leave as soon as they are out of school for the summer. She wants us to tell our daughter who is doing great in the school she is in that she can't go to the school that we sent her sister to because as she will have to pay a mortgage, we won't be able to afford it.When I told her I was able to keep both of the girls in private school for years when she wasn't working and I'll be damned if I let this decision on her part stop me from doing all I can to keep her in when we only have a few more years left, she told me that even if I did start making enough I should "..save for retirement" since I'm so much older than her! (She is 47, I'm 52! She has done this a few times now telling me that I'm so much older than she is but were only 4.5 years apart in age!)

Now, this is something, again, that we discussed when she first dropped the bomb. Back then she was saying that our daughter would be "better off" in public school but as time went on, that stopped and she agreed that she is better off at the private school. Now, she is back to the same stuff she was saying back then.

The only positives I can take from the talk were these...I told her that I know that she will be able to take care of herself if she decides to go. She said that I told her that I didn't think she could (again, something I said on B-day when I was shocked and hurt). I now know why she suddenly got cold, left our bedroom and took off her ring (because of something she read that I wrote and read stuff into that I never felt and never would). I stopped myself from trying to say things she would see as trying to "fix" her. When I wanted to say something like that I stopped myself and said "It's not me, it's not our marriage". She even said "That's all you can say? You keep saying that!". When I wanted to say until you work through the real causes and stop trying to blame our marriage and me, you're going to stay stuck in your tunnel!She stated that she see's me GAL'ing and that she feels I will be fine without her. When I asked if she wants me to find someone else, she got quiet, said it freaks her out to think of me with someone else and added in a way that told me she really doesn't feel this way that she does want me to be happy. This is when she said "Maybe once I go you'll find out you are better off and happier without me." At least she see's that she may be part of the problem with our marriage.

She was making progress but whatever it was she read knocked her right back into angry replay and part of me is angry at myself for not being more careful although I know most of what she read into it couldn't have been there as I never thought or felt most of the stuff she said she saw. I really think as the day for her to actually leave gets nearer, I feel like I'm running out of time when part of me knows that she may just NEED to leave before she can ever face the truth as to why she is so "unhappy". Also, again last night she asked me to give her a back rub which tells me she is more relaxed around me probably due to her finally talking to me about the things that were bothering her and hearing me say that isn't the way I feel or ever felt, not really. She also probably thought I wasn't expecting her to leave once summer came and was nervous knowing that she wanted to go and having to tell me.

Yes, I know this is still trying to figure her out and not thinking about me and my life but we don't talk about the R often and it's been many months and I'm really trying to work out just what was said and if not why, what it can tell me about what's coming!

Again, thank you Eric!

[Matt165]

Thanks Wonka.
I guess the hard part is that I know she is in pain and I WANT to help her. I want her to be happy again. I want to take the pressure off, which was why when she was first depressed I took over almost everything so she wouldn't feel any pressure. It's hard when she should know after 25 years together that I'm NOT the enemy!I know now that she doesn't see that because of the MLC but it doesn't stop the hurt seeing this person who you love go through this and blame you knowing all you've done is try as hard as possible to help them feel better.

When you see her be more comfortable around other people who don't really know her or care about her that hurts as well. When she says when she's with me she gets "tired" but not with her new friends, that hurts! When you see this person who is nice to everyone, who tries so hard to BE liked and she is smiling when she says some hurtful thing to you, that's hard.

You know I watched her burn out when we talked. She started at full steam and by the time we were finished, she was lying there unable to keep her eyes open!Her depression took over and she was totally wiped out within 20 min.'s! It's like the effort to think of why she is doing this, to come up with reasons was just too much. I have just a day before listened to her go on and on about something that happened at work, how she felt, how she handled it and never once slow down or get tired. When she talks about these issues she can't keep it up for long before the pressure hits her like a ton of bricks!

Any LBS who can stand while they have their and their families lives destroyed by the very person who you have sworn to stay with in sickness and in health is a hero! If only the MLC'er could see that what they are going through is a "sickness" (which my W did when she was first depressed)maybe they wouldn't be so quick to blame the very people who love them the most.

Thank you so much, I really needed to hear what you were saying right at this moment!

[Wonka]

Matt,

It's hard when she should know after 25 years together that I'm NOT the enemy!

I am going to suggest that you drop shoulda, woulda, coulda...not helpful at all. She truly doesn't view it this way. She's too busy being wrapped up in her own chit to be rational here.

I know now that she doesn't see that because of the MLC but it doesn't stop the hurt seeing this person who you love go through this and blame you knowing all you've done is try as hard as possible to help them feel better.

We know that you have good intentions here. Actually, trying to be helpful or trying to help them "feel better" isn't any of your business. Stay in your own sandbox. Trying to get into W's sandbox will just make her more mad.

When you see her be more comfortable around other people who don't really know her or care about her that hurts as well. When she says when she's with me she gets "tired" but not with her new friends, that hurts! When you see this person who is nice to everyone, who tries so hard to BE liked and she is smiling when she says some hurtful thing to you, that's hard.

This is typical MLC behavior. We all wear masks when out in public and when we get back home...drop it at the floor. It is not you. It is very, very tiring trying to put on a show of pretense!

If only the MLC'er could see that what they are going through is a "sickness" (which my W did when she was first depressed)maybe they wouldn't be so quick to blame the very people who love them the most.

They don't. I didn't learn about my MLC until long after I've come on the DB forums and learned what the "formal label" was. Talk about eye-opener for me!

Generally speaking...people tend to lash out at the people closest to them: spouse and family. Why? Because they feel relatively "safe" to let down their guard to do so. I'm sure you've lashed out at W some times during one of your fights.
The only difference with MLC is that the lashing out tends to be intensely personal, blameshifting, and filled with rage that tends to be fairly "global." They're trying to bring you down to their level so they feel better about themselves.

One other thing I'd encourage you to do here is visit other threads and post in those that resonate with you. It is a great way to learn more about the MLC journey.

[ericmsant2]

Matt

I’m not sure if anyone has ever said this to you Matt…I think that right now you need to practice STFU (shut the f*ck up). Your words are doing more damage than you think. You are not helping yourself with….

When I asked if she wants me to find someone else, she got quiet,

IMO, at the root of this statement is manipulation. You wanted to her to “see it”…”get it”…know that you are “serious” and that this is really starting to bother you. You wanted YOUR words to have an effect on HER ACTIONS. Look buddy, if you want to see someone else you do not need to ask her (or me or anyone else for that matter). Stop talking. Stop trying to convince her. Stop trying to manipulate her.

Decide for YOU want you want to do. Do you really want to stand for this M? If so, then STFU. If not, then fine.

She started it by saying how we need to figure out what we are going to do about our daughters school next year as she has decided that she is going to leave as soon as they are out of school for the summer.

You see this as her disrupting YOUR plan or YOUR daughters plans. She is not (at least probably not what/how she thinks of it). MLCers are totally selfish creatures. She is not DOING THIS TO YOU…she is doing this FOR HERSELF.

That said, she is sharing with your (at least on some level) her plans. Now you know she plans to leave, now you know she does not plan to pay for your daughters private school. Instead of LOOKING AT HER…you might want to consider taking the information that she has shared and figure out a PLAN FOR YOU.

When I told her I was able to keep both of the girls in private school for years when she wasn't working and I'll be damned if I let this decision on her part stop me from doing all I can to keep her in!

That’s fine that you “told her”. Do you really think that YOU “telling her” is going to stop her or change her behavior? IMO, it is not. So you can b*tch all you want, that is NOT going to help. What will help is YOU figuring out YOUR plan.

Back then she was saying that our daughter would be "better off" in public school but as time went on, that stopped and she agreed that she is better off at the private school. Now, she is back to the same stuff she was saying back then.

I see you are still trying to assign rational to her reasoning. She will vacillate, she will waver, she will do all sorts of chit cause she – NOT YOU – are in a crisis. Now the fact that she has lost her chit is NOT YOUR PROBLEM or YOUR FAULT.

ACCEPT…that she has been beamed up to lala land and start building YOUR PLANS.

She stated that she see's me GAL'ing and that she feels I will be fine without her.

You GAL for you. She is going to read into anything you say or do – hence, you should be DOING more and speaking less. That is not to say, that if she insults you that you need to sit quietly and tolerate it. No. You just do not need to have conversation with her.

This is when she said "Maybe once I go you'll find out you are better off and happier without me." At least she see's that she may be part of the problem with our marriage.

You see it as her “seeing” she is part of the problem – I see it a totally different way. I see it, as her feeling less guilty about her actions.

I'm really trying to work out just what was said and if not why, what it can tell me about what's coming!

As I mentioned above, IMO, she is telling you what is coming. Now you need to figure out what YOU are going to do.

I guess the hard part is that I know she is in pain and I WANT to help her.

I think you have two options to help her…

Option 1 – hand over all income, assets and assume all liabilities. Move out, continue to pay the mortgage, live in a box on the street, agree with everything she says and does.

Or

Option 2 – Accept that nothing you do will fix her, hand her over to God, pray from strength and forgiven and the ability to forgive, keep focused on you and the kids, and focus on being happy every day.