Thanks Wonka, Yesterday I found out that because my wife HAD to go see her dad in Fla last month, taking off work and spending money we didn't have, she used up her vacation time. Problem is she KNEW she was taking a week off from 3/31 to 4/4 to go on a class trip with our youngest daughter which means no income as my business is one where I don't get paid regularly. She didn't tell me this until she left and she said to be ready for no income NEXT week. I paid the bills as best I could, she spent money like we have so much more income than we do, and now I find out that it's THIS week she won't be getting paid for! Now, we have no money to live on until she gets paid again next week and when I say no money, I'm not sure we can afford gas for the cars because SHE told me the wrong info. Now, I know she has money in her secret bank account but she doesn't know I know about that. She wants to question me when I say we are low on funds (she says "I just got paid, where is that money?", It went to pay the bills!!)Now I'm going to have to try and find a way to get through this little crisis and she will just do the normal "blame me", I'm sure. I wish that I was just projecting but I know from past times this is what will happen.
When I started this business (before her B-Day) we talked and she knew it would be hard and I would need all the support (not just financial) I could from her. 3 months into it and she pulled the Bomb. Now, she tells me how she's angry at me for not making enough money. How it makes her mad because she knows we can't "trial separate" if we wanted. Here I see this person who is doing so many horrible things to me and her family, goes from saying how we'll be together forever and has no thoughts of leaving or divorce and 12 weeks later tells be she's unhappy, I'm unhappy and she wants a divorce and isn't interested in trying to fix our marriage, forgets to go to her daughters school meetings and instead goes out with her friends from work leaving me waiting and embarrassed when she doesn't show, is always telling me how wrong I am and pointing out all my faults (at one point about 6 months post B-day, I had been trying to change ME and address the things she said we're bothering her about me. When she couldn't think of anything I had said or done "wrong' she told me that she "hates the way (I) chew my food"! Now there is grounds for divorce and breaking up a 20 year marriage!), and she is telling me that I'm not good enough for her! I'm in better shape than I've been since I was 20 years old.(I'm 52, she's 47)The times we went out together to parties that her new work friends had and it went well, she said to me in an astonished voice "Everyone really likes you" like this was sooo weird because how could anyone like someone as awful as me? Blames me for everything bad that has ever happened, even saying "I know you didn't do anything to make ______ happen but I still know it's your fault. Every time things get better something ruins it!".
How in the world do us LBS'ers stay sane. Here is this person who I have dedicated my life to, knows me better than anyone else and she only see's the bad. How are we supposed to keep up our own self-esteem when the person who was our best friend and lover is always telling us and showing us how we aren't worthy of them....and they have such low self esteem and are always saying how they don't like themselves. If someone who feels so bad about themself doesn't think you're good enough for THEM, that can really be a hit to the old ego! I'm trying to GAL and detach and do things for me but like tonight I was supposed to go out to a wine bar for trivia night with a meetup group but now I don't think we can afford just buying a few drinks!
I can see reading what I just wrote that I'm venting a bit. I should know by now that I can't believe or count on anything she says (like it wouldn't be until next week she wouldn't get paid) and I have to just verify everything for myself. This money thing is a realitvely new thing since she got back from seeing her father. She trusted me until she went and opened her own account. Maybe she is projecting her feelings about doing something she knows is "wrong" and now thinks I'm doing what she is (hiding money)? Does no good to try and understand the why but I need to find a way to get through to her that she can't put me in charge of paying the bills and at the same time spend and take unpaid time off of work without warning much farther ahead of time. It would be easy with a "normal" thinking person but while she is so far in MLC, it's a huge undertaking and one that could, if handled the wrong way, end up putting us in front of a judge extremly fast. Especially when her father is pushing her in that direction!
Anyone have any ideas of a way to get her to understand things without her seeing it as controlling or stopping her from "finding her joy"?
Hello again everyone, Yesterday I didn't end up going to my meet up group due to money issues. I helped W with picking up the kids as she had to work late (again) and when she got home we were talking and I mentioned maybe going out and where. Like in the past she seemed almost jealous. She seemed very unhappy about the fact that I met some nice people and had fun. Her words were sarcastic, her tone of voice was dismissive and the look on her face was very unhappy. Now, she's the one who told me that I need to go out and do things on my own without her. She goes out with her friends from work and that day went out to dinner (which we can't afford!) with one of her work friends (I think, she didn't say who), she has no interest in me in ANY romantic sense at all. Hell she won't even touch me or sleep in the same room! Why in the world would she be unhappy that I'm going out and doing things without her when this is exactly what she says she wants me to do and does herself?
I know, trying to make sense of an MLC mind, dumb! The part that bothers me the most I think is that she has been depressed and anxious for a long time. We worked through that at first then came B-day. In the months since, there have been times when I have seen things start to get so much better. We were doing things together, sure she would do things like tell me she didn't want me with her at her co. X-mass party and than come home and tell me about how crazy and out of character she acted and was proud of it! (After this she told me her friends from work who weren't there told her that they were told by other people in different dept's that they thought she must have been drinking, she was acting so "crazy", dancing with other men, etc. And, again, as she was telling HER HUSBAND this, she was PROUD that she was noticed!). But, she was still at least wearing her ring and sleeping in the same bed. Then she starts talking to her dad. He tells her that she needs to leave the kids with me and come visit him. That she needs to just leave me since things will just go back to the way they were if she tries. Suddendly she stops sleeping in the same room. Stops wearing her ring, opens her seceret bank account. It's like she was making her way out then daddy gets involved and back in she runs! Farther than ever!
Is it a bad or good thing that she seems to not like me going out and doing things on my own? I think that if she cares at all than she must still feel SOMETHING for me. Then again maybe she's projecting the way she's been acting when I'm not around on me but still what would it matter if she doesn't even want me in her life? I had an awful dream last night where I was with my daughters at her dad's place. We find this statute that looks like my W. Her dad just leaves and doesn't care. I try and find what this thing is and I open it up and it's empty inside. For some reason I expected to find my W inside and whole but there's nothing. My daughters start to cry because they know they lost their mother forever now and I feel powerless to do a thing! I feel like I let them down, her down and my FIL is just standing there laughing! I usually don't even remember my dreams but that one really got to me!
If my W really doesn't love me the way a wife should, really wants to leave and be on her own, doesn't want to even try, why the attitude about me going out without her? Is this normal? At this point I don't think she has an OM except her father (maybe in past, not sure)but she must want to find someone else, why else take off her ring? (When I asked she said "There are many reasons, one in particular but now isn't the time to talk about it") and that was 3 weeks ago and I haven't brought it up since nor has she. I did decide about a week after that I would take mine off as well. Part of trying to do a 180 as I've made sure she knows I will stick to my vows until the divorce was final and this seemed "out of character" for me and seemed like a good 180. Anyone have any ideas as why she is acting this way?
You asked in the other post: Anyone have any ideas of a way to get her to understand things without her seeing it as controlling or stopping her from "finding her joy"?
You don't. Your W is acting like a rebellious teenager who wants to do whatever she wants.
You ask why W is acting upset with you going out. She is feeling miserable and depressed so she doesn't like the fact that you're out and about "enjoying" yourself. Keep going in that direction. You cannot worry about what W thinks or feels when you do go out. Right now, she's not your number one nor are you her number one. She's lost in the MLC fog.
MLCers don't want any hint of intimacy with the LBS. We are very adept in hugging the bed's edge when sleeping in the bed and not reaching out to the LBS for non-sexual touches. Sex with the LBS? Forget it!
had an awful dream last night where I was with my daughters at her dad's place. We find this statute that looks like my W. Her dad just leaves and doesn't care. I try and find what this thing is and I open it up and it's empty inside. For some reason I expected to find my W inside and whole but there's nothing. My daughters start to cry because they know they lost their mother forever now and I feel powerless to do a thing! I feel like I let them down, her down and my FIL is just standing there laughing!
This dream is telling you that FIL is sucking W's soul dry. He is not who he is. Seems to say that FIL isn't the cuddly guy that he tries to portray to W. Scary.
If my W really doesn't love me the way a wife should, really wants to leave and be on her own, doesn't want to even try, why the attitude about me going out without her? Is this normal?
Yes, unfortunately so. MLCers are very depressed and miserable. They don't like it when the LBS goes out to have fun because they want to pull you down so they'll feel better about themselves. Which is why you MUST detach from W's moods, actions, and comments.
why else take off her ring?
In her mind, you two are separated. She's mentally and emotionally checked out of the M at the moment. So this action reflects her mindset.
I did decide about a week after that I would take mine off as well. Part of trying to do a 180 as I've made sure she knows I will stick to my vows until the divorce was final and this seemed "out of character" for me and seemed like a good 180.
Ummm..those two statements are in direct conflict with one another. If you wish to stick to your vows, then removing your wedding ring isn't the way demonstrate it. Just curious why you took it off in the first place. Anyone have any ideas as why she is acting this way?
At this point, she's very conflicted and confused. That's why all of this crazymaking is happening. When one's internally confused, they tend to say or do things externally that reflects that. It isn't about you, Matt. It is all on her and her inner demons from her childhood.
The ring thing was something I really wasn't sure about. On one hand for 10 months now I have stayed and supported W in every way, no matter what she said or did. Things got better than she comes back from her trip without her ring and smiled when I asked her why. I thought by taking mine off, I would show her I stopped fighting her. I actually miss wearing it. Only jewelry I've ever worn. Also, maybe a part of me wanted her think that there is a point to where I just won't stand back and take it anymore. Mostly first part, some 2nd.
Before she moved out of our bedroom this last time, she never touched me but would revive non-sexual back rubs from me when she was stressed badly. Now that has stopped. If she isn't wearing her ring, moved out of bed, I figured my touch is no longer welcome. I haven't asked her nor has she sent her old signals (she would never ask but would position herself in front of me in a way that told me "I want a back rub!"). Again, this stopped when dad entered the picture. One reason I haven't even attempted to do this is because I don't want to be seen as chasing her. Should I make an attempt to see if this would be welcome?
When I asked she said "There are many reasons, one in particular but now isn't the time to talk about it") and that was 3 weeks ago and I haven't brought it up since nor has she.
So, maybe it is time to ask her as a follow up? If she doesn't tell you, you are no worse off than today right?
Also, I understand the temptation to lay this all at your FIL's feet, and he does sound like a true grade-A scumbag, that is for sure. BUT...if your W was otherwise happy in her marriage, would she have fallen for his line? It sounds to me like you had some serious issues before, and she was already primed for the idea he presented?
Also, just saying, but it looks to me like the FIL is an easy scapegoat and the real issue is working on yourself to be the husband any woman would be a fool to leave. I am (was) a glass house resident, by the way, as I did the same thing when my W went through an MLC. She was obsessed with a trainer/actor, to the point she wanted us to move to his city, and all I could think about was that guy. I watched his twitter and FB for updates that my W would see, I snooped constantly, and generally drove myself nuts. As it turns out, none of that was too helpful (unless you are trying to become a sleep deprived lunatic, then it is extremely helpful). Focus on GAL and being the best father and husband you can be. Since she may not let you be the greatest husband, be the greatest father and person overall.
CB
PS - I love that you acted like an adult and didn't let your D go have sex for a summer. I was unbelievably appalled at what your W said.
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
We were always one of those couples that everyone knew I was dedicated to her and the kids. The trouble started when W grandfather died (only stable male influence in her life after her dad left). At the same time her dad told her he wanted to "make up" for all the bad he had done but only if she left me as he thought she was wasting her life as a stay at home mom. When I went up a couple weeks later he had a dinner party for her and came to me before and said there was no room for me or our 7 year old and we shouldn't "bother" them at their party. There were a dozen people and the only ones he excluded were me and his granddaughter! That was almost 8 years ago. He has been pushing her to leave me and her kids since and now that my wife is in MLC she is listening. The reason she got depressed was him telling her ( she was diagnosed a couple months after getting back from GF fruneral).
The reason she gave me for wanting out of marriage was something that happened 20 years ago! After a few days that went away and it was because she doesn't love me the "right" way. Even she admits I've been an excellent husband and father. She just "can't help" she doesn't love me the proper way!
I know I wasn't perfect but I was a very good husband. Too good actually as I became too much Mr Nice Guy. That is my biggest crime as a husband. My wife is going thru this MLC because of the crap her dad put her and her mom thru after the divorce. She has had trust issues ever since and tested me hard before we were married. So while I wasn't perfect, I KNOW if her dad wasn't in the picture this wouldn't be happening.
So while I wasn't perfect, I KNOW if her dad wasn't in the picture this wouldn't be happening.
This isn't the case at all. I should know because I am a reformed MLCer. Please disabuse yourself of ^^^ that notion, honey.
It would have happened regardless. It HAD to happen anyway. Most people who are in MLC have had a very traumatic loss in their lives: loss of a parent, best friend, family member, or some such close connection. That causes them to lose any sense of balance and that knocks out all of their circuits. Off they go in their own space ship!
I am not saying that every person who experiences loss GOES through MLC. Wanted to be clear on this one.
The MLC crisis brings up many, many unresolved issues in a person's childhood or youth. It will take a long, long time for them to work through their chit. My MLC lasted for 5 years. I am one of the few lucky ones who somehow got through it and the added bonus is I've learned even MORE through DBing.
Here's another good resource you would want to read up here: HeartBlessings' thread on the LBS Journey. She just posted in this thread today after being away for a long, long time. WTG, girl!
After reading up on MLC I can tell you that two traumatic events from W's childhood most likely caused this....sexual abuse at a very young age from male babysitter and her father leaving when she was 10. The way he left was Unbelieveably bad, the way he treated her was God awful. Part of the story is posted in earlier post. He left his kids 10 and 7 and her mom 1000 miles from home while on vacation with a sail boat and camper after his OW called. When they got back he had moved out of state and put the business in OW name. He drug the divorce over 10 years until both kids were over 18 and never paid a penny in child support. The only thing her mom got was the family home. He married the OW a year after divorce was final and didn't bother to tell my wife let alone invite her to the wedding. Her grandfather had to tell her because he thought it was wrong of his son not to. Before this he refused to pay for college as was in D decree, when he let my wife live outside in an unheated camper in the winter while she went to college, he through her out with no place to go because his GF didn't like that her mom called once a week. He puts her down and says awful things to her like now embarrassed he was to talk to his friends about her when she was a stay at home mother because all he could do was say she "doesn't do anything". All the time my wife would say "as long as he's still alive, there's hope we can have a relationship some day".
When she went back to work she was still not over her depression. She threw herself into her work and the people there because she wanted so badly to be a part of the group of women she works with, most of whom are younger and divorced. To fit in she did everything with them, neglected her kids and marriage. For my part, instead of reacting the way I wanted and should have, I was still reeling from the 3 years of depression she went through before going back to work and I tried to be nice. Tried to show her I was there when she wanted to come back and would always take care of her. In other words I wimped out to the max. She needed me tone firm and I just complained, still did everything she should have been doing and lost myself!
That is how we got here. I was the kind of husband most women would be crazy to leave (God knows that's what her friends and family have been telling her, other than her dad) but the combo of her dad now accepting her wanting to take her to Europe and Austrailia as long as she leaves me, has her unable to work through the biggest childhood problem she has, her father abandoning her! As long as he is telling her he will be the dad she always wanted, she doesn't have to face that demon. All will be better as soon as she does what he wants. Never mind he will end up hurting her again for sure once she does what he wants!
