Wonka I have to disagree with you, I wish a WAW like Sandi will stop by around here, for what you can see in many WAW sitchs the Waw never reacted the way expected towards the LBH confronting the affair, they try to hide their tracks and deny everything completelly.
In a public place, there's no way that your spouse would be out of control. She would need to realize that she's under microscope with other eyes around so she may adjust her behavior accordingly.
This is mind reading and a wish of what it would happens, she can react completelly normal by telling him, you are crazy, now its me the one who dont trust you! Leave me alone, confronting a WAW I believe for whats being said (while they are not leaving in the same roof) just make things more complicated.
In regard to your thought that maybe rumors are just rumors, I am going to say that 99.9% of WAS here have OM/OW in the picture. It is highly likely that W is indeed having an A with someone. This brings me to the next point.
This is not demonstrated and untill not demonstrated better to relax on this, accussing his W of this when it might not be true its judging or pre judging and thats the way to lead to irrefutable mistakes.
Even if you dont like it Gogofo she is not living as a married woman now, and you cant assume or confront her, you can set boundaries meanwhile like showing yourself less available, but taking her inventory its very risky and it might cause troubles in the situation you dont need right now.
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
GO you can see here one more case of a WAW deniying the affair and how Sandi adices the user:
Haven't we been through this once before, or was that someone else? Okay, so....don't do it. To me, you are not only trying to control, but you are trying to force her to admit the A and to stop the A. That's what it boils down to, anyway. Nobody can blame you for feeling like you do, however, it just won't work on her.
It is really driving you crazy that she continues to deny the A. You keep thinking of ways to try to squeeze it out of her, but it all sounds the same to me.
If I were the WAW and you presented that speech to me, I would let you know very quickly that I had not asked you to work with me, forgive me, understand me, or believe me. I am not interested in how sorry you may feel now.....or how willing you are to find solutions to make this M better. I am not hard of hearing or senile, and I don't have to have your consent or blessings on what I choose to do. You are not my father nor my Pastor, so stop preaching.
This won't do anything but start another argument, Zew. I have read many similar posts from other LBH's who try to make the W end the A and work on the M. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work this way. _________________________ It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
I did not suggest that he confront W about her A. Simply said to ask her about the book's comments and listen to what she had to say about it. This is what most people would do if they had something like that out in their front porch. I'd want to know what that's all about and hear their side.
Confronting and asking a simple question are two completely separate things, Ye.
As for A, I've been around the boards long enough to know that the vast majority of WASes have OW/OM in the picture. It is not mindreading at all, but comes with DB experience. What I am doing here is preparing GoFo for the real possibility that his W is indeed in an A. It is always best to be prepared than look silly when talking with a WAS, right?
GO you can see here one more case of a WAW deniying the affair and how Sandi adices the user:
Haven't we been through this once before, or was that someone else? Okay, so....don't do it. To me, you are not only trying to control, but you are trying to force her to admit the A and to stop the A. That's what it boils down to, anyway. Nobody can blame you for feeling like you do, however, it just won't work on her.
It is really driving you crazy that she continues to deny the A. You keep thinking of ways to try to squeeze it out of her, but it all sounds the same to me.
If I were the WAW and you presented that speech to me, I would let you know very quickly that I had not asked you to work with me, forgive me, understand me, or believe me. I am not interested in how sorry you may feel now.....or how willing you are to find solutions to make this M better. I am not hard of hearing or senile, and I don't have to have your consent or blessings on what I choose to do. You are not my father nor my Pastor, so stop preaching.
This won't do anything but start another argument, Zew. I have read many similar posts from other LBH's who try to make the W end the A and work on the M. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work this way. _________________________ It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
What did I tell you in an earlier post, Ye, about this very matter? I said that DBing isn't one size fits all. It DEPENDS on each situation so DBing needs to be adapted and adjusted accordingly.
Sandi was responding specifically to Zew's situation and sharing her experience in that context. In this particular matter, Z wanted VERY BADLY to confront his W with evidence of her ongoing A.
With GoFo's situation, he has a book with really nasty comments scrawled all over it and WTF is he supposed to do with it???!! Exactly. We are advising him of how to approach W in a non-controlling way and ask her about it to get her side of it. Nothing about A. You see the difference?
'What did I tell you in an earlier post in your thread, Ye, about this very matter? I said that DBing isn't one size fits all. It DEPENDS on each situation so DBing needs to be adapted and adjusted accordingly.'
Well, since I've been held up as an example that doesn't fit the situation, let me throw in as to what I think you should expect.
1. As I read it, there likely is an A/OM. Think about the worst act possible, and learn to detach from it. You don't want to be broadsided by your own emotions if she does reveal an A. If there isn't an A, then bonus!
2. Think about whether an A is a dealbreaker. And think of it in several ways. What if she ends it on her own, and chooses you. Is that ok? What if it ends because you forced her out of it; i.e. it wasn't her choice. Is that ok? What if it hasn't ended and you have to wait it out? Is that ok? You will likely change your opinion on this over time. Start coming to grips with it and what your core values/tolerance/forgiveness angles are.
3. You likely will not learn much from showing her the book. If she isn't in an A, she will claim not to know what it is about. A WAW in an A will lie. She will claim not to know what it is about. We all dream that she will break down, confess, and repent, but it never happens that way.
So you can maybe look at the book and say "Oh my, look what someone wrote in here!" and then watch the reaction. But if she's a WAW in an A, and you say "Do you know what this means?", she's going to take that as a full on accusation and it won't be pretty.
3. You likely will not learn much from showing her the book.
Not sure about that one. I think one can learn quite bit by quietly listening to the spouse's words/tone/inflection and reading their body language. That will be the key. Then GoFo can store that info in the back of his mind.
Off to eat my take-out pizza and curling up with a book for the night!
I would say, "W, is there anything you need to tell me?" while you show her those comments. Sit quietly and listen. And do this in a public place like a park...
Now for the meaning of confronting: meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent.
So, I didnt misread, I read that very clear.
Then you can say, "We cannot be friends when there's a third party in this marriage. When you're done with the OM, I'd be open to your efforts at repairing the damage. I'd have to see your actions. Until you've cut ties with the OM, do not contact me at all."
What about respect her decision of not being with him instead of keep showing her that she did a mistake?
I did mistakes when I was young and it took me years to realize they were mistakes even if many people told me they were at that point, this is called self realization and until his W doesn't reaCh that point, every attempt to change that its manipulative and thats the way she will perceive it.
If she wants to be with Go she will eventually and based on his boundaries realize what steps she has to take. A boundary its not to tell, dont get close or talk to me untill you finish affair or contact with other man, a boundary will be to stop doing things that might lead her to think she can cake eat, stop having dinners, sharing personal time together and things like that.
As for A, I've been around the boards long enough to know that the vast majority of WASes have OW/OM in the picture. It is not mindreading at all, but comes with DB experience. What I am doing here is preparing GoFo for the real possibility that his W is indeed in an A. It is always best to be prepared than look silly when talking with a WAS, right?
Again, leaving in reality its much better, I have a different opinion about this, you know why? Whats the difference between a WAW with A and one without? None, they both leave you behind so at the end with or without A, Gogofo still separated and this is about helping him to change his toughs not preparing him for the worst...live the present moment and stop thinking about the negatives, once you think them you attract them...
With GoFo's situation, he has a book with really nasty comments scrawled all over it and WTF is he supposed to do with it???!!
What about nothing? What if the book wasnt written with any comments?? Thats a fear movement to proof him "right" and her "wrong" for having an A or not and her having an A or not doesnt change the fact that today and now she doesnt want to be with Gogofo, him growing spiritually and becoming a man only a fool would leave, that there might make her think about getting back with him.
We are advising him of how to approach W in a non-controlling way and ask her about it to get her side of it.
The only person advising that approach its you Wonka, I dont see others neither do I, agreeing with asking or confronting her about this book.
There is no point or reason for this and I would like to hear your reasons if you want to share them with me, and whats the expected benefit or outcome of this approach to her in this situation?
Nothing about A. You see the difference?
As for A, I've been around the boards long enough to know that the vast majority of WASes have OW/OM in the picture. It is not mindreading at all, but comes with DB experience. What I am doing here is preparing GoFo for the real possibility that his W is indeed in an A. Then you can say, "We cannot be friends when there's a third party in this marriage. When you're done with the OM, I'd be open to your efforts at repairing the damage. I'd have to see your actions. Until you've cut ties with the OM, do not contact me at all."
Wonka I dont think I am misreading you when I see manipulation in your words, english its not my main language, however I understand you completelly when you write down even if first you say one thing and you ended changing that comment with :
Nothing about A. You see the difference?
And:
Wonka Member
Registered: 10/01/04 Posts: 3188 Edit:
'What did I tell you in an earlier post in your thread, Ye, about this very matter? I said that DBing isn't one size fits all. It DEPENDS on each situation so DBing needs to be adapted and adjusted accordingly.'
Thats your opinion, I accept it, respect it and I understand how you feel about this, however I greatly appreciate if you dont judge my way of giving advice, for you it might not be valid for other it is valid.
Thank you Wonka
When the student its ready, the teacher will appear... Even after all this time the sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that,It lights the whole sky.
Everyone, thanks for the advice. I don't know my plans yet, but tonight after the kids are in bed I am going to visualize the worst. Probably cry myself to sleep, but that is how it goes.
About WAW and A, I know she fantasized about dating or being with someone who wasn't who she made me out to be. I don't know if she did nothing, dated, kissed or went full out. When we were together she was very critical of people who cheated and even said she would kill me if I did it. I know she never would IF she was in her right mind. She also said she would leave and divorce me before she ever cheated because she respected me.
Right after BD when she was being "honest" she said she was too hurt to date or anything. She said she knew she would never marry again and would not even date for a long time, she was just too hurt. This is when she was ready to divide everything and go to a L ASAP, she had a paper out to plan it all out. She never wrote anything down because I broke down completely.
What I think it is is that she has been getting cozy with someone at work and either their spouse, SO, or friend is very pissed. Whom ever it is they do not know that we are separated because they wrote that they hope I kick her out.
Strictly EA, and kissing is definitely not a deal breaker. Heavy petting or full physical, I just don't know. The worst I can image would be if she got pregnant. I don't think I could reconcile and have a step child that would be a constant reminder of her indiscretions and have to see the OM all the time. This is going to be my visualization scenario tonight and I am sick to my stomach just typing this.
My gut tells me to work through these terrible thoughts and then do nothing. One reason is that I don't know if it is a deal breaker. Another is that I don't know if I am ready to set a boundary and I worry if by setting one over something I don't know the details about, it would destroy all our progress. Who ever wrote in the book will be bringing to reality what may have happened for me. Somewhere along the line it will come out, whether she brings it up or I do. I just don't feel right now is the right time.
Honestly I believe she would not go PA but I would not put it past her to test the waters by dating. She has strongly held values and has never wavered from them. She has been hand picked for promotions at work and refused them because she did not believe in the position. She refused doubling her salary. I feel, even by her actions, that she respects me enough to not get physical. Plus her mom works at the same place and doesn't support her separation from me. She would/will jump her sh!t if catches wind of an A.
Also I am surprised that I have not heard anything yet, this is not the kind of community to keep gossip secret.
I am also surprised that I am not feeling the pain I thought I would. I have had a fairly happy day even though it is on my mind a lot, it has not ruined my day. I worked through lots of pain early on after BD. Yahoo for emotional growth!
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Here is some irony for you. The night before the book showed up I had a dream where I had a chance to get intimate with my wife... and I didn't. Even in my dreams I cannot bring myself to cheat on my wife. This is at least the second dream I have had like this over the course of our relationship. Thought it was funny until I found the book that evening.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
