Barrybran - Yet Another Thread

[Mach1]

I've read about that idea in a few places now. I'd love to try it but I have two problems with it: 1) how I come across to people; and 2) making genuine compliments.

I'm torn about a lot of things such as this because of how I come across to people. Do I try it and hope it works out? Do I work on my communication first before tackling things like this? Those are the kinds of questions I'm dealing with. Basically, whether I prioritise personal development before focusing on others or whether I tackle everything in one go and hopefully I get good at everything eventually.

Barry...

First off...

Sorry to hear that your Son was bullied. I know how difficult that is to hear about..


Secondly.

I think that one has to look inside first, before anything can change outwardly within theirself....

A person can only give outwardly, what they feel internally...

One thing that I did early on, was to write a list of my qualities that I could accentuate, and a list of deficiencies that I wanted to change.

I created a list of things, that I wanted to show the world everyday, without expecting anything in return for doing them.

Just a few here...

Kindness
Compassion
Honesty
Dignity
Grace

And I started doing those things. Sometimes I really had to search for an opportunity, yet I somehow found a way to do everything on my list, every day.

I also made a list of things that I did not like about myself, and I started being aware when I had those thoughts, or I found myself in a situation where I would typically be those things...

Some of them were...

Controlling
Superior
Judgmental
Manipulative


What I found, was that when I would start doing the things on my good list, the things on the bad list started to disappear. And I found it easier every day to do what I wanted, rather than what was expected, because of my past behavior.

What things are on your good list ???

Things that you want to show ???

What things are on your bad list ??

Things that you want to change about yourself ???

And I think that the word "yourself" should be the focal word in that sentence. This is about you, and what you want.


As far as how you come across to other people ??

From my perspective, you seem a little gruff around the edges. I feel as though you like to argue a bit, and I think that being "right" is very important to you. I read you as being very competitive in your life, and that being "right" is another competition to you, and yes...your Marriage is one of those things.

That you feel that you will "lose" if she leaves, or the Marriage ends.

Is it about being right or wrong ???

I see you as an "I know" guy. And that comes from being competitive, and from being unable to listen to other people's opinions and accept that, another person's opinion of you, is only their opinion...yes. Yet it is also the way that other people view you.

I was an "I know" guy. And one simple line changed my life..

Seek to understand, then you will be understood

What does that mean to you ???

The way that you treat others, is typically showing them the way that you want to be treated. Just like LFW's tag line.


Be the change that you want to see around you.


And I think that is what Lost is trying to get you to see for yourself....

In my experience in life, it isn't about what is right or wrong in a given situation, it is about what is right or wrong FOR ME, regardless the situation.....



DBing is about doing what works, and dropping what doesn't work. It is about changing past behaviors that you don't like about yourself, and doing things better in your life. It is about moving FORWARD with yourself, and living genuinely within yourself, so that your next relationship can be a better, more fulfilling relationship, filled with better love, communication, and honesty.

And that there is the potential, that your current spouse COULD very well be the person that you have that relationship with.

You just have to do your part in that, which is equally opposite from where your spouse is now. It has been said around here, to take care of your own side of the street, or stay in your own Sandbox....either way you name it, that is what it's about....

You have to be willing to risk it all, in order to have a chance to start new in the future.

And you CANNOT move forward, while you are looking back at her. She doesn't hold YOUR answers Barry, I can assure you of that.....

Think about this, and come up with YOUR list of good and bad qualities that you want, or want to rid yourself of....

Let's start there....

[Barrybran]

I'll get back to Mach's post as I need to read and think. He's right that I'm an "I know" guy so I just need to take a step back and think about what's been written before I respond to it. In the meantime, I need to vent!

It's amazing how quickly a day can turn. I worked this morning from 6:30am to 2pm and the day went smoothly. I felt good. I'm enjoying work. I was supposed to work until 2:30pm but my wife called to ask me to go up to the principal's office this afternoon and my boss let me out early. The day started to turn at this point.

My boss took my wife's phone call and told me my wife was on the phone. I was with a customer and couldn't get to the phone so I figured that meant to call her back. I didn't know that my boss had put the phone down with my wife on the line. While this was happening there was some banter and I mentioned to my boss that I had got into trouble for doing too much housework. I still find this hilarious (despite how I currently feel) because you just don't hear of women complaining about men doing {i]too[/i] much housework. I get on the phone and my wife tells me she heard that I'd said it. Oops.

I head over to see my wife to swap cars and ask what she wants to know from the school principal. As I head into the school I get a short text exchange where she tells me she was "livid" that I'd told someone else about our business (one of the issues that came up when I cheated). I have tried hard not to mind read but I don't know whether her being emotional (even negatively) is a good thing or not. Lately I've felt a big, fat "whatever" from her when it comes to our relationship so to know that I can still cause her feeling about "us" was a positive in my book. Maybe I'm thinking too many things are positives but I took it that way. It's helping to think of the positives so hopefully I'm not being naive. Anyway, she tells me she could have yelled at me for it but because she was at work, she didn't. So something I thought was funny turned out to be a strong issue to my wife.

So then I head into the principal's office. Long story short, he plays down the incident, I assertively and firmly tell him that an 11 year old choking a six year old is assault, I find out my son is friend's with the other boy, that they were sharing a book and markers on the bus, that my son caused the situation and that the other child involved is unstable. I know my son and I love him but to find out what happened was not a surprise. I went and spoke to his teacher to confirm the story, which she does. I decide to try and do the trust-building thing and ask him what happened. I feel I handled this part of my day excellently. I told him he wouldn't get into trouble but he had to tell me what really happened and to his credit, he did and I listened without interrupting. I told my son that what the other child did was wrong and he was punished because of it. I told my son what my teacher told my son, that by not returning the other boy's markers he made the other boy angry and while the other boy's actions were not condoned, my son's actions caused the other boy's negative feelings. I also told my son that by telling us only half the story that my wife and I were worried about him and angry with the school when the school had assessed the situation, dealt with it and felt the issue had been resolved. I still feel a phone call to my wife or I would have helped but I understand why they didn't as my son basically 'got on' with his day without ill-effect. As I said, I'm really happy with how I handled this part of the afternoon.

Onto daycare to pick up my girls and I wind up going down a ski slope. First, I pick up an overdue invoice which was a surprise as my wife told me she set up the bank account for payments to come out of it. Then, I ask a 2yo where her shoes are and she goes off and plays. After 15 minutes, the shoes are found and off to D4's room. She wants to go and pick up everything other than what I ask her to pick up. Meanwhile, S6 is banging on a bongo drum and D2 is running around playing with everything. Long story short, it took longer than usual to leave daycare and between my stuff up with my wife on the phone and my daughter's not listening, my number one hate, I was feeling very frustrated as I left.

I head down to my wife's work as she's not going to be home before the kids go to bed tonight and as I let the kids out of the car, D4 cries that she can't get out. She's tied the string on her shorts to the seatbelt and can't get out. Problem is, I can't undo it either. So I pull my daughter out by freeing her from her pants (thankfully she had tights on underneath) and we all go inside. Once inside, my wife is on the phone. I wait. And wait. And wait. Just as I decide I'm going to take the kids to the shops, she gets off the phone and comes out. I ask my son to tell my wife what he told me which he does while I take a time out for myself. I then ask my wife about the direct debits and I get the hostile tone of voice again and tell her I can only report the information I have. I retrieve the invoice for her, get the kids to give her kisses and cuddles and leave the store.

So here I am now, in the loungeroom, kids are in the other living area watching cartoons and I'm not going near them. I was fine just three hours ago and now I'm feeling very flustered and frustrated. Stupid thing is, I'll look back on half of today later and laugh. Hell, even the bit about doing too much housework is still funny to me even if my wife doesn't see the funny side. I'm glad I have my sense of humour.

All I can say is roll on 8pm... kids' bedtime. I love them dearly and I do love my wife but today just isn't my day I think. Lots of work to do on myself

[Barrybran]

My wife and I have been watching TV in separate rooms tonight, something that has been the norm lately, and she came in to where I am about half an hour ago to reiterate what she said earlier. She acknowledged that I may find the housework issue funny but it was a serious issue to her. More serious was that I had discussed our relationship with third parties. She was very clear and to the point. I listened but there was no opportunity to validate as she said her piece and left. It was a verbal 4x2 and a half.

I don't really know what to make of it all at the moment. They're her feelings, she's very clear about them, she's giving me a road map to follow yet I don't know where it leads, and yet I keep stuffing this up. I seem to get it and not all at the same time. I understand why she's so angry and I deserved the serve she gave me yet at the same time I don't have anyone to talk to about my situation outside of this website and my head is being held to the guillotine every time I make a mistake. It's very difficult to get used to this filter she has where she catches all my errors and misses all my good deeds. You'd think after four months I'd be all over what not to do and yet I seem to be caught out when I slip up and it sets her off big time. It's incredibly frustrating that she doesn't cut me any slack and even more frustrating that I don't seem to be able to get on the same page as her. It feels like one step forward and three steps back at the moment.

[Lostforwords]

B,

First....You belittled your wife to someone. This really isn't about you talking to a third party, it is about how you talked about her (remember the 5LL book....You do not do this as it is not loving behavior).

Now is it dumb what you did...Yes....Now use it as motivation to not doing it again.

On multiple occasions you were not listened to yesterday....and it frustrated you and is your number one hate....How does it feel? Once again...use that as motivation to change how you communicate as people surely feel the same with you.

Kudo's on handling the situation with your son....Sounds like a much better talk than you two are used to having.

FYI....There is no slack in your world....You either do or don't. So don't expect slack as it isn't coming....You used your slack coupons up awhile ago.

[Barrybran]

Yeah, I get that. The post before is just venting. A lot of the time now I pick up when something negative happens and I actually tell myself that I've brought this upon myself or if I'm hurting, I tell myself I've put my wife through more than I'm going through. I understand why I'm here, I just wish there was an easier way out and of course, I know it's not going to happen. It comes down to being frustrated at myself for creating this situation more than being frustrated at my wife for how she treats me.

[claire7]

Did you ever apologize to your wife or tell her that you understand why what you said you boss sounded hurtful? Maybe I missed that in this thread? You said you didn't get the chance becausr she left the room-- could you send an email or write her a note?

[Barrybran]

I apologised earlier in the day when she initially mentioned it. Her medium of choice at the moment is text/Facebook and I respond to her in kind. She's not interested in face-to-face communication about relationship stuff. I can certainly write something down though but I'd probably be repeating what I've already said. My current thought is that I've apologised, now I have to just put my head down, bum up and actually do what she says.

[Mach1]

My boss took my wife's phone call and told me my wife was on the phone. I was with a customer and couldn't get to the phone so I figured that meant to call her back. I didn't know that my boss had put the phone down with my wife on the line. While this was happening there was some banter and I mentioned to my boss that I had got into trouble for doing too much housework. I still find this hilarious (despite how I currently feel) because you just don't hear of women complaining about men doing too much housework. I get on the phone and my wife tells me she heard that I'd said it. Oops.

This ^^^ is an example of what I was saying yesterday...

Two people, see this entirely different.

I am also not saying that it is a bad thing either. The only bad part is that I'm not quite sure that you see it.

You say that you find it hilarious, and it was meant as a joke....yes ???

Now I'm not gonna bash you about it, cause truth is ?

It is a little funny.

Now for the flip side....

The thing that a WAS fears the most, is judgement for their actions.

They KNOW that what they are doing is (morally) wrong in the eyes of most people. They do not want to be held up to the cross by anyone because they do a fine job of it them self.

They especially take exception to it happening around anyone that they place on a higher social plain than they are on, or from anyone that holds a "position" of authority. Such as Boss, or a Priest, Mother, Father, etc.....

And to top that....

She felt that from you, in front of your Boss...

And you were laughing about it.....


Think about what things she may have felt when she heard that...

Judgement ??

Compassion ??

Trust ??

Guilt ??

Controlled ??

Manipulated ??


It was what we call around here....a Truth Dart

And in the end ?

You DID NOT own your words to your boss. You tried to apologize for saying it, when you weren't really sorry for them...


Did she feel that your words were consistent ???

You have told her that you do not want a Divorce...yes ???


Did she feel..

Loved ?

Cherished ?

Wanted ?

Respected ?

Chosen ?


Barry....I'm not taking her side in this, I just want YOU to see this clearly...

Joke or not....

Your words matter....

[Barrybran]

I've tried to sit on as much of these posts as I can for the past couple of days and really think about them. I don't know that I have any answers though. Perhaps I haven't been thinking hard enough, I don't know. I've been focused on the listening stuff and yet I still can't get that right. I try and be more patient with the kids and they just frustrate me to a point that I either let them do what they like or I snap and everything that comes out is very loud and autocratic. I feel I need to get away but at the end of the day, I'd come back and things will be the same. Honeslty, I don't know who I want to be or where my focus should lie so I've focused on the things my wife has told me she doesn't like. I feel I've learned a lot of tools but I don't feel that I've learned the appropriate listening tools... or it's not that I don't listen but my memory is terrible. I do honestly feel that I have improved at listening but it's hard to tell because I am my only judge. My wife isn't there to say "I appreciate that you listened to me". The only feedback I get from her is when I stuff up. It's hard to judge my own progress when I see things differently to those around me.

As for yesterday's incident, I apologised this morning again. I really didn't have anything new as I felt I covered it in yesterday's apology. I did it though because her truth dart came after my initial apology and in person so I knew she was serious. I didn't get a response and I didn't expect one. I understand that she felt betrayed but I don't honestly think she feels love or cherished by me right now. She knows I don't want to divorce, I've made it very clear that I want to earn her trust back and she hasn't run for the hills. I'm sure she doesn't feel respected by me and I believe she would feel chosen by me but would rather not right now. I do honestly think that her getting angry is a good thing as she's been devoid of emotion towards me recently and this hit her at the core of her frustrations with me and my infidelity. Of course, it could just be mindreading and she's just throwing a fit but my wife hasn't fit the description of "crazy" and if she didn't feel anything, I don't honestly believe she would have told me what she did just to throw it in my face. She is standing up for herself a lot more now but I think she would have kept it to herself if she "didn't care" about me anymore. It's hard not to mindread and I try hard not to but as I said, emotion is something that she has kept from me recently.

[ericmsant2]

Barrybran

I am thinking that you should compliment her once a day for something she does in the house...Thanks for working so hard, Thanks for making dinner, etc....Especially compliment her for something you don't think she did the best in the world. That said, don't compliment her on how she looks or interacts with you....Look for compliments based on things she does, not on her specifically.

Very good advice. I read an interesting article on this point….. For any R to last, daily “complimenting” for the ACTIONS the person does is KEY. Barrybran, I would highly suggest that you try this. I would not go overboard either. A simple thank you for XXX, it was appreciated it…is enough.

yes, I'm up for an experiment but I honestly don't feel as though I'm ready in terms of personal growth.

What exactly is personal growth for YOU BarryBran? Mach gave you some very good insight….. things to ask yourself. It appears that you are focus more on doing things that YOU think YOUR W wants you to do/change more so that things that YOU YOURSELF want to change. IMO, until you really figure out HOW to make changes FOR YOURSELF….you are not going to feel the way that you want to feel.

Honeslty, I don't know who I want to be or where my focus should lie so I've focused on the things my wife has told me she doesn't like.

Stop for a sec and ask yourself this question……..

Would you want to be with someone who does not know who they want to be?

I don't really know what to make of it all at the moment. They're her feelings, she's very clear about them, she's giving me a road map to follow yet I don't know where it leads, and yet I keep stuffing this up. I seem to get it and not all at the same time.

You seem to be spending more time worrying about what SHE FEELS than working on HOW to get YOURSELF to FEEL the way YOU want to FEEL.

IMO, I can see you are trying Barry. Trying really hard. Maybe that is the issue. You are trying to undo your past mistakes. You are trying to make sure you validate and listen to your wife. You are trying to become a better for parent FOR your kids.

The one thing I do not see enough of….is YOU trying to be BARRY. Just Barry. Not the Barry that everyone including your W and your kids what to see.

The ripping apart of oneself and the work to figure out “who I want to be when I grow up”….is f*cking tough. It is a process. There is not right or wrong answer Barry. The answer is in you. The answer really is….who does Barry want to be……when no one is around…..regardless of other actions…..the Barry that will feel good about himself….

Keep digging brother…

Take a look at Mach’s questions…. Think about them….focus on them.

You have some of the best people I know posting to you. Listen to them.

Go read LFW’s old post.

I believe you can do it dude. It really takes one step.

Choice.