I started by seeing if she agreed that when she had income, she should contribute to household expenses. W kept trying to dodge saying she had no income. I said this is a model for future when you do. I showed her 3 web articles describing the plan. She still doesn't buy any of it, wants single account.
I told her we're living paycheck to paycheck; she still doesn't understand why "I'm turning the screws" and not paying her CC balance in full every month.
This turned into about a two hour conversation of grievances. Again, she was angry, we nobody was screaming. I validated a lot of what she said. I called her on some of the "because you think x" stuff, asking only that she not assume how I thought or felt without asking, but validated that she felt how she felt.
I stayed clear of A and OM, which was tough, since she wanted to get into a "I always tell you where I'm going" line. (She asked where I went yesterday when I went out on errands. I had simply replied "Out.") I suggested that she really didn't want to go down that path.
She again said that I thought that this could easily be fixed; I told her it would take a lot of time and hard work. She very sarcastically said "ok sign us up for MC". I said I didn't think we were ready yet.
I asked her what she wanted to do. She said "we can just muddle along like we have for the last 18 years". (trying to buy time) I said we couldn't do that; we both know things have changed.
We left it at that last night. She vented, that's about all I can say. The only good from these conversations is picking up what she thinks you did wrong. Otherwise, if you either validate or don't validate what she says, both just confirm her decision to leave.
This morning, she demanded to see the last year of bank statements. She thinks I'm hiding something. There's nothing to hide, but I don't want our personal finances discussed among her girlfriends either. Even if I go through it with her, it's not going to do any good; she'll misinterpret that as badly as a "shared expense account".
She is so gone. "I'm finally awake and not taking it anymore." Time alone will not fix this. In my estimation, nothing is going to fix this.
The first step of my plan has to be to get hard evidence of A. It at least helps me in D negotiations. Maybe it disrupts her plan A.
Well she clearly wants you to pay off her debt and see how much is left that she can use. I personally think it is a waste of time to try to get her to agree to a plan. You have tried twice, and she continues to use the same defense mechanism.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Otherwise, if you either validate or don't validate what she says, both just confirm her decision to leave.
Validation is not agreement, it is just seeking to understand her feelings. "You sound angry about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes, I'm really angry!" "I'm sorry you feel angry, but I can see why you would feel that way." That's validation in a nutshell. What it does is diffuse the situation, when the other party realizes that you actually care about how they feel and not just about defending yourself, then they calm down pretty quickly.
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She is so gone. "I'm finally awake and not taking it anymore." Time alone will not fix this. In my estimation, nothing is going to fix this.
You never know. I think most people come here expecting a big change in weeks or months. The real timeline is years, and a lot can happen over that length of time. I'm sure it seems to you like your W changed quickly, I know it seems that way to me in my own sitch. Well guess what, they can change back to loving you just as quickly. Look at the timeline in my sig, and we're divorced. Is it over? I honestly don't know, I've known people that reconciled after more time than that and are really happy now. Your sitch is very young by comparison.
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The first step of my plan has to be to get hard evidence of A. It at least helps me in D negotiations.
Have you checked with a L on this? Not sure if you're even in the US, but if so, many states have no-fault D now. If you're in a no-fault state, then it doesn't matter if you prove an A or not. It will have no bearing on the case.
Have you checked with a L on this? Not sure if you're even in the US, but if so, many states have no-fault D now. If you're in a no-fault state, then it doesn't matter if you prove an A or not. It will have no bearing on the case.
I have talked to L. This state has no-fault and adultery grounds. Most judges reject adultery and make you refile no-fault. However, some adultery grounds cases are allowed. It may, but most likely will not have any grounds in a court settlement.
L has successfully used it as a negotiating tool. "Accept this settlement, and this evidence stays here, we don't tell x, y, z"
And then there's the question of whether it can be used to break W's denial of A, and whether that changes their figuring.
"Validation is not agreement, it is just seeking to understand her feelings. "You sound angry about this, is that how you feel?" "Yes, I'm really angry!" "I'm sorry you feel angry, but I can see why you would feel that way." That's validation in a nutshell."
There's actually 6 or 7 levels of validation. I wrote about in one of my threads. It really helps to understand the levels and use the highest one applicable.
Me-35 Com law-28 S-3 T-6 yrs w/14 mnth bu 1st bu- 2/2012 Rec-4/2013 2nd bu-10/2013 IC-2 yrs(anger issues) MC- 5 mnths-fail OM~1/1/14 OM dumped 6/4/14 New OM ~10/4/14
Thanks 2TH, I will look up that thread - hopefully it isn't too hard to find...
Meanwhile, W told a friend yesterday that "If he had come to me like this a year ago, we wouldn't be in this mess." Makes me think I might be on the right track now, but she's still just too angry to accept anything I do. Maybe I'm reading more into that than I should. In any case, it sounds like LRT + 180s + consistency + patience are good. Keeps me hopeful anyway.
And then there's the question of whether it can be used to break W's denial of A, and whether that changes their figuring.
Well she would probably quit denying it, but if other sitches are any indication then she'll be angry that you outed her, and of course she'll blame you for driving her into someone else's arms. I know it makes no sense, but it's standard behavior for WAS's involved in adultery.
Originally Posted By: zew
Meanwhile, W told a friend yesterday that "If he had come to me like this a year ago, we wouldn't be in this mess."
That is so straight out of the WAS guidebook. We all get the "too little too late" and "why didn't you do this before I was done?" comments at some point.
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Makes me think I might be on the right track now, but she's still just too angry to accept anything I do. Maybe I'm reading more into that than I should.
No I'd say that's pretty accurate. Like 25 says, "consistent actions + time = change your S can believe in". So you're doing the right things, but you have to keep doing them consistently for a long period of time. Really the goal is to keep doing them until they are part of you, it becomes the new you.
As predicted, W has almost maxed out her CC. At least she's tracking it now. She still thinks I'm turning the screws, but I'm just transferring the same amount on the same date each month as I've done since Christmas when I discussed the budget with her.
She wanted me to transfer money now, and I told her that this paycheck had to cover mortgage, taxes and life insurance; she would have to wait for next paycheck (regular date).
I'm holding the line there. In case I need it down the road, I want to establish that there is a budget with regular transfer payments to her CC for expenses, and whether she manages her spending to that is completely up to her.
Meanwhile, I've gone a little more dim around the house. I speak when spoken to. She complained (not to me) that I hadn't said goodbye to her when I left out to work yesterday. I have always wished her a good or productive day. She senses that loss, but then attributed it to me "pouting".
And she's overwhelmed by the startup learning curve at her new job. Wondering if she can pull it off. Hoping they don't have buyer's remorse. Then blaming her inability to cope on her situation at home. She is not a happy camper right now.
Meanwhile, I'm sticking to kids, homework, still exercising and looking for new GAL opportunities now that spring is here. Did some house repair last weekend, more to be done.
