Unlearning conflict avoidance - 11

[LuckyLuke]

It was a generally good day yesterday:

o d16 came home early and played her loaner instrument to test it. Though they say that the master makes the instrument, in this case at least some of the instrument seemed to rub off on d16 for a bit. It sounded very nice sometimes, giving me ample opportunity for honest compliments. Hopefully she will decide to keep this one, as this (her middle school graduation) present is nearly a year old.

o I had a nice talk with yoga teacher last night, who ended up inviting me and the family to his house, whenever we liked: "just show up - don't bother calling, as my cell phone is wherever it is - ". He likes to bike, rock climb, kayak in the midnight sun, take a sauna, yoga, etc, a spontaneous and active guy.

o dinner with the dance teacher didn't work out, but the alumni dinner tomorrow is on track, at a great sounding restaurant in Stockholm (reindeer with wild mushroom and lingon!)

o W was a bit sour last night, not even softened by my minestrone, but it turns out she had lots of homework that had to be graded for today. She was fine this morning, when she took the car to work.

Luke

[MrBond]

What instrument is your D playing?

How can you increase the positive interactions with your W?

[25yearsmlc]

Bond,

Gosh I don't want to get into a "thing" here, ( & usually you and I agree)

but can you say why you want Luke to work on his r with his w so much?

Is it b/c in general/the future, he needs to be less weak around her (or others) and you want that to change,

or b/c you think his M can be salvaged?

From where I sit, I THINK, all I care about now is helping Luke with his r with his D and in his self esteem, In general, so that he can be a happier man.

I know it's no small feat, and Luke, there are beliefs about yourself I still find surprising. Or things you find so hard, that baffle me. But I'm not you and I get that.

How do you feel about all this?

[LuckyLuke]

Violin. Her high school has a music specialty program and she is outgrowing her old one.

Yes, it would be great to improve, if it can be, the R with my W, who doesn't seem to really give a toss anymore.

MLC - what are these beliefs about myself and the things I find hard that baffle you? I sometimes feel like I lack a reference to normality and health.

I feel uncertain about how to interact with the yoga teacher - unsure of myself and my actions vis a vis him - it is nice to be invited though.

I told W I have to go to Budapest to work for a week (in a week) and will be stopping by Germany on the way. She didn't seem to mind and said we could order (my Christmas gift) some fancy German plates since I was going. Her not caring whether I was here or there, not wanting or needing anything from 'down south', and these plates, which symbolize having my own household, with my own things, to me, somehow made me quite sad, unexpected. I am up at 4 am as a result.

Having at least a bit of warmth and caring in our R would be welcome.

Yes, d16 is most important. She said I looked "bleak" last night. Hmm.

Luke

[MrBond]

"but can you say why you want Luke to work on his r with his w so much?"

Sure. For a number of reasons.

First of all, I'm not saying that he should have a relationship with his W to save the marriage. That is not the intention here. With that being said, I think he could try having "some" kind of relationship with her.

1) She will always be the mother of his kids. If they break up and there is no positive communication between the two of them, it's going to be hard on the kids. Especially with his daughter. Later when she or his son gets married and wants to introduce their spouses to the family, it would help if there was no tension. You don't want the kids to choose sides.

2) They are still living together under the same roof. Why not try to improve relations between them? I mean he has nothing to lose.

3) To help LL with his personal growth. Right now he has hit an impasse and not moving forward with standing up for himself. He seems to always come to a certain point in his growth (with his W which I feel will spill over into his relationships to women in general) and then stop. He can keep moving forward. Right now it seems like he's just avoiding her out of fear. Time to get rid of that fear.

4) Based on his post just before this one, it's obvious he's feeling lonely. We all would. Why not try and communicate positively with the woman he's living with? GAL is fine and great, but he's been living together alone for so long that he needs/wants/yearns for a connection.

The good part of all this is that he's actually beginning to FEEL lonely rather than accepting things as they stand. Luke, you can do something about it learn how to truly DB. Do what works, don't do what doesn't, and don't give up on yourself.

[LuckyLuke]

I agree with everything you wrote above, Bond.

re 3) fear is part of it, but also not having ideas what to do differently.

Just had a small positive interaction with W regarding d16's violin.

Yeah, feeling lonely is a big thing in my life.

I meet an interesting sounding urban planner for lunch today, and then fellow student applicant interviewers for dinner. I'm sure these will be fine. Its always good to know more people.

How do you make the change from acquaintance to friend to real friend? Is it taking a plunge? Or carefully bleeding out chosen personal details? My analytical head wants to put a structure on this.

Luke

[sandi2]

How do you make the change from acquaintance to friend to real friend?

I copied and pasted this question in google. You can find anything on the Internet, Luke. Why don't you look this stuff up instead of accepting the excuse of not knowing what to do?

[MrBond]

"His wife holds contempt for whatever reason and a lot is because they are under the same roof. "

Personally I don't think so. He was having problems with relationships in general and his W was pushing him to challenge her. But regardless of what she does, usually LL starts progressing and then stops at a certain point. I certainly don't think he should put up with any abuse by her, but I also feel that he's got to learn to stand up for himself.

And besides, they're not planning to get D'd anytime soon, so why not try improving communication with her? Just a thought.

[LuckyLuke]

Yes, I feel like I come to a point in relationships where I am not sure how to continue. With my French guy friend, for example, I would like to reveal a safe personal detail, gauging the reaction, but am not sure what this secret could be. With (another!) French guy friend I took the plunge and told him about my M and he opened up and told me about his (similar to mine). I'd like to identify a spectrum of safe to less safe to completely revealing secrets or intimate knowledge, and start revealing it, moving toward fellowship and deeper friendships.

Action: had lunch with an urban planner, who had worked in New England (where I am from), and then dinner with an MIT guy, an interesting person that I hope to see again.

Luke

[25yearsmlc]

Yes, I feel like I come to a point in relationships where I am not sure how to continue. With my French guy friend, for example, I would like to reveal a safe personal detail, gauging the reaction, but am not sure what this secret could be. With (another!) French guy friend I took the plunge and told him about my M and he opened up and told me about his (similar to mine).


This^^ baffles me. You are a smart educated man, with nothing to be ashamed of. If you were a child molester just paroled, I'd say "keep that to yourself"...but you act as if revealing things re: your m are things another person would reject you for. That's not rational, imo.

Why on earth do you withhold your "secrets"? What is there to fear so much? Granted, and I mention this so I remind myself as well, I am an extrovert. My youngest d is an introvert and for HER, revealing things is terrifying. But she has enough teammates and a few close friends with whom she is FULLY honest. Since she's wondering about her sexual orientation, which sometimes felt "shameful", I can see why she'd hesitate. But she plunged ahead, and has close friends who accept her. Only a few rejected her, and she survived.

I don't know if you have anyone in your life with whom you are fully honest Luke, but you need to. Everyone needs to, or they'll be very lonely.


I'd like to identify a spectrum of safe to less safe to completely revealing secrets or intimate knowledge, and start revealing it, moving toward fellowship and deeper friendships.


YIkes...all I can say is that without disclosure, it's very hard to build intimacy.
What are your terribly monstrous secrets?? Without revealing yourself, "who" is the other person getting to know?

I suppose with a whole lot of time spent together, yet saying very little, could still bond you with someone, but not nearly as quickly.

And I'm not sure mind reading builds a "real" bond b/c of all the guesswork & projection, that the withholding of information, causes.

Action: had lunch with an urban planner, who had worked in New England (where I am from), and then dinner with an MIT guy, an interesting person that I hope to see again.

Luke

Keep at this, Luke. Don't be stuck. Exercise choice.